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  #1  
Old April 2nd 04, 03:16 AM
Paul Bassman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ram

Hi Folks,

Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my Choice
of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
Thanks!!
Paul.


  #2  
Old April 2nd 04, 04:51 AM
Tim Tatar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This provides a nice description.

http://www.docmemory.com/page/news/s...5795186&num=99


"Paul Bassman" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks,

Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my

Choice
of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
Thanks!!
Paul.




  #3  
Old April 2nd 04, 10:38 AM
baskitcaise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tim Tatar wrote:

This provides a nice description.

http://www.docmemory.com/page/news/s...5795186&num=99



Mmmmm... can`t seem to get to any of that site from here all 404`s

--
Mark
Iligitimi Non Carborundum!
Twixt hill and high water, N.Wales, UK

  #4  
Old April 2nd 04, 02:14 PM
Jason Cothran
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Paul Bassman" wrote in message
...
| Hi Folks,
|
| Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
| completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
| One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
| registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
| choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
| this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my
Choice
| of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
| to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
| motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
| Thanks!!
| Paul.
|

Ever heard of ECC ram?


  #5  
Old April 2nd 04, 03:40 PM
Peter Strömberg
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Jason Cothran" wrote in
:

"Paul Bassman" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks,

Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and
am completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to
order. One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a
clue what registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham
PC the firm of choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please
can you tell me, does this defeat the object of playing games for
example. I would have my Choice of a very fast CPU fast hard drive
etc, but the ram would bring speed down to say a XP 2000, do you
think Rambus ram could be used with this motherboard, just what the
eck is registered ram and why is it slow? Thanks!!
Paul.


Ever heard of ECC ram?


ECC != registered

You can get memory in four flavors:
* unbuffered
* unbuffered ECC
* registered
* registered ECC

Registered modules have additional components (registers) placed between
the incoming address and control information and the SDRAM components.
These modules are typically used in Servers due to their added
reliability (they place much less of an electrical load on the memory
controller and therefore make it possible to have as many as 16 or 32
modules in a large system).

--
Peter Strömberg
C2K2 C2K3 ISCCIV02 ISCCIV03
  #6  
Old April 2nd 04, 03:59 PM
General Schvantzkoph
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:16:37 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:

Hi Folks,

Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and am
completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to order.
One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm of
choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me, does
this defeat the object of playing games for example. I would have my Choice
of a very fast CPU fast hard drive etc, but the ram would bring speed down
to say a XP 2000, do you think Rambus ram could be used with this
motherboard, just what the eck is registered ram and why is it slow?
Thanks!!
Paul.


Registered RAM has a set of registers on the address and control lines.
The registers reduce the load on the lines and they also reduce the length
of the lines. If you have an unregistered DIMM with 8 RAMs then the
address and control lines from the processor must drive the 8 RAMs
directly, i.e. there are 8 loads on the each line. Also the lines must
travel from the processor, up onto the DIMM and then fanout to the RAMs on
the DIMM. On a registered DIMM the lines from the processor drive the
input of the register, 1 load instead of 8. In addition the lines
terminate at the register which is placed near the connector so the length
of the lines are much shorter. Registered DIMMs significantly improve the
signal quality of the address and control lines. Systems that use
registered DIMMs can support more memory then those that use unbuffered
DIMMs. The downside is that there is a small increase in the access time
(bandwidth is uneffected). As a practical matter the performance loss from
the increased latency is very small, completely unnoticeable in fact. On
the otherhand the performance gain from having more RAM is huge. The
improved signal quality also improves the reliability of the system. On
top of that registered RAMs always include ECC (error correcting codes)
which will correct single bit errors and detect double bit errors.
Unbuffered DIMMs are available with ECC but they usually don't include it.
So an unbuffered system is less reliable for two reasons, the signal
quality is worse so there is increased probablility of an error, and if
there is an error there is no way to detect it let alone fix it.
Registered systems have better signal quality so there is less likelyhood
of a bit error and they have ECC so even if you have a bit error the
processor can correct it.


  #7  
Old April 2nd 04, 04:35 PM
Ian Hastie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:40:30 +0000, Peter Strömberg wrote:

ECC != registered

You can get memory in four flavors:
* unbuffered
* unbuffered ECC
* registered
* registered ECC


I don't remember ever seeing registered no parity RAM. I'm not saying it
isn't possible, but I'd be interested in seeing a URL for info on some.

--
Ian.

EOM

  #8  
Old April 2nd 04, 04:50 PM
Jason Cothran
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter Strömberg" wrote in message
. 4...
| "Jason Cothran" wrote in
| :
|
| "Paul Bassman" wrote in message
| ...
| Hi Folks,
|
| Have been playing about with PC's for 25 years just as a hobby, and
| am completely addicted. I want to buy the Athlon 64 FX53, am ready to
| order. One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a
| clue what registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham
| PC the firm of choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please
| can you tell me, does this defeat the object of playing games for
| example. I would have my Choice of a very fast CPU fast hard drive
| etc, but the ram would bring speed down to say a XP 2000, do you
| think Rambus ram could be used with this motherboard, just what the
| eck is registered ram and why is it slow? Thanks!!
| Paul.
|
|
| Ever heard of ECC ram?
|
| ECC != registered
|
| You can get memory in four flavors:
| * unbuffered
| * unbuffered ECC
| * registered
| * registered ECC
|

Yes, but unbuffered ECC is very very hard to find and likely more expensive
(due to its rarity) than registered ECC. 99% of the time, when you see ECC
ram it is registered.


  #9  
Old April 2nd 04, 08:46 PM
General Schvantzkoph
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:35:19 +0100, Ian Hastie wrote:

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:40:30 +0000, Peter Strömberg wrote:

ECC != registered

You can get memory in four flavors:
* unbuffered
* unbuffered ECC
* registered
* registered ECC


I don't remember ever seeing registered no parity RAM. I'm not saying it
isn't possible, but I'd be interested in seeing a URL for info on some.


You won't find it. Registered RAM is used in servers, no one in their
right mind would put non-ECC RAM into a server.
  #10  
Old April 2nd 04, 11:23 PM
Paul Bassman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The prize go's to General Schvantzkoph whose explanation has made me happy,
so much so, I now want registered ram! I found your explanation very easy to
understand. Many thanks to everyone else who took the time to explain, which
I found very helpful. Thanks again Paul.


"General Schvantzkoph" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:16:37 +0100, Paul Bassman wrote:

Hi Folks,

One thing is stopping me and I hope you can help. I haven't a clue what
registered ram is? It say's in most reviews of the Evesham PC the firm

of
choice, that the registered ram is slow, so, please can you tell me,

does
Thanks!!
Paul.


Registered RAM has a set of registers on the address and control lines.
The registers reduce the load on the lines and they also reduce the length
of the lines. If you have an unregistered DIMM with 8 RAMs then the
address and control lines from the processor must drive the 8 RAMs
directly, i.e. there are 8 loads on the each line. Also the lines must
travel from the processor, up onto the DIMM and then fanout to the RAMs on
the DIMM. On a registered DIMM the lines from the processor drive the
input of the register, 1 load instead of 8. In addition the lines
terminate at the register which is placed near the connector so the length
of the lines are much shorter. Registered DIMMs significantly improve the
signal quality of the address and control lines. Systems that use
registered DIMMs can support more memory then those that use unbuffered
DIMMs. The downside is that there is a small increase in the access time
(bandwidth is uneffected). As a practical matter the performance loss from
the increased latency is very small, completely unnoticeable in fact. On
the otherhand the performance gain from having more RAM is huge. The
improved signal quality also improves the reliability of the system. On
top of that registered RAMs always include ECC (error correcting codes)
which will correct single bit errors and detect double bit errors.
Unbuffered DIMMs are available with ECC but they usually don't include it.
So an unbuffered system is less reliable for two reasons, the signal
quality is worse so there is increased probablility of an error, and if
there is an error there is no way to detect it let alone fix it.
Registered systems have better signal quality so there is less likelyhood
of a bit error and they have ECC so even if you have a bit error the
processor can correct it.




 




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