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my (aweful) PNY experience



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 4th 04, 05:41 PM
Jeff B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default my (aweful) PNY experience

This Post goes way beyond the typical "I bought a
ASUS/Abit/MSI motherboard. It didn't work right, so never by
an ASUS/Abit/MSI motherboard!"

PNYs idea of "warranty" is to send you a
somebody elses reject. They even slap a "refurbished" sticker on
the back, and it is one of those that voids the so called "warranty" if
you remove it. Read on for the details:

I got a 6800u, and had to send it back to PNY cause lockups
in Doom3 were constant. Boy, what a mistake! (sending the card back,
that is)
This replacement CANNOT be clock adjusted AT ALL. With coolbits, I can
move the slider, but doing so is pointless cause I get an error message and
the adjustments won't stick. It always reverts back to "default"
which is 425/400 3D/2D. So what you say? Turns out, the prob all
along is that with this particular brand of card, the D3 lockups are
caused by different clock values for 2D/3D. So in effect,
PNY booby trapped the card by permanently fixing the clocks to
values that cause the computer to crash. It was deliberate!
And this has nothing to do with the AC characteristics of the card
it will do 446 Mhz core. But they've done something to
defeat coolbits, so you can't adjust the 2D/3D speed to make them the
same. So my workaround was to use a BIOS editor to set the 2D/3D to the
same value. This worked......for about 4 hours. Suddenly, I'm getting
lockups and weird corruption during the windows splash screen. Pop in
an EVGA card, no problem, so it was the card itself.
The kicker is that the original card worked just fine. About 4 days
AFTER I returned my perfectly good card, I found that it was a
wrong setting problem,
not a bad card. My original did 446/1114 core/mem, and worked perfectly.
I traded it for "the card from hell" cause I mis diagnosed the problem.



Bottom line is this:
PNY gets in some number of problem cards over time, and all they do
is shuffle them around and randomly send them back to unhappy customers.
Joe gets Bills bad card, Bill gets Sams bad card, Sam gets Toms bad
card, etc. No wonder they offer a "lifetime warranty", it doesn't cost
them anything.
I doubt if they do anything in terms of debug. So be advised if you
have thoughts of sending a card back to PNY....you won't get
a new card replacement, you'll get somebody elses reject.

Jeff B


  #2  
Old September 4th 04, 07:34 PM
John Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:41:32 GMT, Jeff B wrote:

This Post goes way beyond the typical "I bought a
ASUS/Abit/MSI motherboard. It didn't work right, so never by
an ASUS/Abit/MSI motherboard!"

PNYs idea of "warranty" is to send you a
somebody elses reject. They even slap a "refurbished" sticker on
the back, and it is one of those that voids the so called "warranty" if
you remove it. Read on for the details:

I got a 6800u, and had to send it back to PNY cause lockups
in Doom3 were constant. Boy, what a mistake! (sending the card back,
that is)
This replacement CANNOT be clock adjusted AT ALL. With coolbits, I can
move the slider, but doing so is pointless cause I get an error message and
the adjustments won't stick. It always reverts back to "default"
which is 425/400 3D/2D. So what you say? Turns out, the prob all
along is that with this particular brand of card, the D3 lockups are
caused by different clock values for 2D/3D. So in effect,
PNY booby trapped the card by permanently fixing the clocks to
values that cause the computer to crash. It was deliberate!
And this has nothing to do with the AC characteristics of the card
it will do 446 Mhz core. But they've done something to
defeat coolbits, so you can't adjust the 2D/3D speed to make them the
same. So my workaround was to use a BIOS editor to set the 2D/3D to the
same value. This worked......for about 4 hours. Suddenly, I'm getting
lockups and weird corruption during the windows splash screen. Pop in
an EVGA card, no problem, so it was the card itself.
The kicker is that the original card worked just fine. About 4 days
AFTER I returned my perfectly good card, I found that it was a
wrong setting problem,
not a bad card. My original did 446/1114 core/mem, and worked perfectly.
I traded it for "the card from hell" cause I mis diagnosed the problem.



Bottom line is this:
PNY gets in some number of problem cards over time, and all they do
is shuffle them around and randomly send them back to unhappy customers.
Joe gets Bills bad card, Bill gets Sams bad card, Sam gets Toms bad
card, etc. No wonder they offer a "lifetime warranty", it doesn't cost
them anything.
I doubt if they do anything in terms of debug. So be advised if you
have thoughts of sending a card back to PNY....you won't get
a new card replacement, you'll get somebody elses reject.

Jeff B




If you had been reading this NG for any length of time, you
would not have bought a PNY card.... period.

One exception:-

If you decide that you REALLY want a PNY card, then
buy it with the "return-for-exchange-no-questions-asked"
CompUSA extended warranty. And extend the warranty
if the replacement is another PNY card.

John Lewis


  #3  
Old September 4th 04, 08:01 PM
Kill Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Lewis" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:41:32 GMT, Jeff B wrote:

This Post goes way beyond the typical "I bought a
ASUS/Abit/MSI motherboard. It didn't work right, so never by
an ASUS/Abit/MSI motherboard!"

PNYs idea of "warranty" is to send you a
somebody elses reject. They even slap a "refurbished" sticker on
the back, and it is one of those that voids the so called "warranty" if
you remove it. Read on for the details:

I got a 6800u, and had to send it back to PNY cause lockups
in Doom3 were constant. Boy, what a mistake! (sending the card back,
that is)
This replacement CANNOT be clock adjusted AT ALL. With coolbits, I can
move the slider, but doing so is pointless cause I get an error message
and
the adjustments won't stick. It always reverts back to "default"
which is 425/400 3D/2D. So what you say? Turns out, the prob all
along is that with this particular brand of card, the D3 lockups are
caused by different clock values for 2D/3D. So in effect,
PNY booby trapped the card by permanently fixing the clocks to
values that cause the computer to crash. It was deliberate!
And this has nothing to do with the AC characteristics of the card
it will do 446 Mhz core. But they've done something to
defeat coolbits, so you can't adjust the 2D/3D speed to make them the
same. So my workaround was to use a BIOS editor to set the 2D/3D to the
same value. This worked......for about 4 hours. Suddenly, I'm getting
lockups and weird corruption during the windows splash screen. Pop in
an EVGA card, no problem, so it was the card itself.
The kicker is that the original card worked just fine. About 4 days
AFTER I returned my perfectly good card, I found that it was a
wrong setting problem,
not a bad card. My original did 446/1114 core/mem, and worked perfectly.
I traded it for "the card from hell" cause I mis diagnosed the problem.



Bottom line is this:
PNY gets in some number of problem cards over time, and all they do
is shuffle them around and randomly send them back to unhappy customers.
Joe gets Bills bad card, Bill gets Sams bad card, Sam gets Toms bad
card, etc. No wonder they offer a "lifetime warranty", it doesn't cost
them anything.
I doubt if they do anything in terms of debug. So be advised if you
have thoughts of sending a card back to PNY....you won't get
a new card replacement, you'll get somebody elses reject.

Jeff B




If you had been reading this NG for any length of time, you
would not have bought a PNY card.... period.

One exception:-

If you decide that you REALLY want a PNY card, then
buy it with the "return-for-exchange-no-questions-asked"
CompUSA extended warranty. And extend the warranty
if the replacement is another PNY card.

John Lewis


My PNY 6800 GT runs fine at Ultra speed. Even with the 3D speed set
different from the 2D speed. Maybe Jeff is just a moron who can't make
himself happy.


  #4  
Old September 4th 04, 08:05 PM
Jeff B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



If you had been reading this NG for any length of time, you
would not have bought a PNY card.... period.


Not with a card that is unavailable world wide. On the rare chance that
one does become available, you take it.

besides, many ppl will get a defective card from a manufacturer, and
from that one data point
conclude that ALL such cards are defective. Since PNY cards are
exactly the same design as EVGA/MSI/XFX/BFG, it should be no more or no
less risky than any other brand.


One exception:-

If you decide that you REALLY want a PNY card, then
buy it with the "return-for-exchange-no-questions-asked"
CompUSA extended warranty. And extend the warranty
if the replacement is another PNY card.


That doesn't work cause you have to pay extra for that extended warranty.
Besides, you can do the same thing for free with the manufactures warranty
(theoretically) because cards normally can't be "fixed", they can only
be replaced. But replaced with what?
Since component level servicing can't be done at the vendors repair
depot, they will:

1. return your card without doing anything to it, or

2. replace it with a defective card someone else returned, or

3. give you a new card.

All vendors except PNY do 3 above, cause that's the only proper remedy.
But if you are dealing with a unscrupulous vendor PNY, they will
replace it with a different defective card they received from someone
else. They figure that since they make it so inconvient to apply
for warranty, they will eventually wear you down and you'll give up, and
it hasn't cost them anything.

I bought this card from Outpost.com, cause they'll give a full refund if
you return it, and they don't charge extra.
The bigger point is that in a world where 6800u are typically
unavailable, you take what you can get and hope that you get a good
card. This is what happened to me. I got a good card from PNY, and
traded it for a defective card.

The real problem is that PNY slapped a big'ol REFURBISHED sticker
on the back, so now I have to worry that Outpost won't take it back
cause it isn't the same card they originally sold me.

  #5  
Old September 4th 04, 10:30 PM
rms
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Try using that same editor (or download a pre-modded bios from
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...eadid=17272276
etc., that fixes the freezing prob and perhaps raises the default core
voltage.

rms


  #6  
Old September 4th 04, 11:17 PM
John Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 19:05:38 GMT, Jeff B wrote:



If you had been reading this NG for any length of time, you
would not have bought a PNY card.... period.


Not with a card that is unavailable world wide. On the rare chance that
one does become available, you take it.

besides, many ppl will get a defective card from a manufacturer, and
from that one data point
conclude that ALL such cards are defective. Since PNY cards are
exactly the same design as EVGA/MSI/XFX/BFG, it should be no more or no
less risky than any other brand.


One exception:-

If you decide that you REALLY want a PNY card, then
buy it with the "return-for-exchange-no-questions-asked"
CompUSA extended warranty. And extend the warranty
if the replacement is another PNY card.


That doesn't work cause you have to pay extra for that extended warranty.
Besides, you can do the same thing for free with the manufactures warranty
(theoretically) because cards normally can't be "fixed", they can only
be replaced. But replaced with what?


CompUSA does not fix, only replace - with an equivalent card from
another manufacturer, or a later model from the same manufacturer
if the original is not stocked.

Wanna wait around for a recycled PNY defect ? PNY demonstrated
do not care about failed product.

Also, if you read the small-print of the PNY (er... ) "lifetime
warranty", you will see that it only applies to the production
lifetime of that particular model, which for some PNY lines is less
than 6 months. So if it is out of production and PNY does not
keep spare inventory, where are they going to get one for you ??
Oh, I know.... send you someone else's defective return.

Try BFG for a real lifetime manufacturer's warranty.

I still recommend the CompUSA extended warranty for
high-ticket items, purchased during a CompUSA sale of
course.

John Lewis

Since component level servicing can't be done at the vendors repair
depot, they will:

1. return your card without doing anything to it, or

2. replace it with a defective card someone else returned, or

3. give you a new card.

All vendors except PNY do 3 above, cause that's the only proper remedy.
But if you are dealing with a unscrupulous vendor PNY, they will
replace it with a different defective card they received from someone
else. They figure that since they make it so inconvient to apply
for warranty, they will eventually wear you down and you'll give up, and
it hasn't cost them anything.

I bought this card from Outpost.com, cause they'll give a full refund if
you return it, and they don't charge extra.
The bigger point is that in a world where 6800u are typically
unavailable, you take what you can get and hope that you get a good
card. This is what happened to me. I got a good card from PNY, and
traded it for a defective card.

The real problem is that PNY slapped a big'ol REFURBISHED sticker
on the back, so now I have to worry that Outpost won't take it back
cause it isn't the same card they originally sold me.




  #7  
Old September 4th 04, 11:26 PM
Mac Cool
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jeff B said:

If you had been reading this NG for any length of time, you
would not have bought a PNY card.... period.


Not with a card that is unavailable world wide. On the rare chance that
one does become available, you take it.


I was sympathizing until you wrote that... You took your chances, got
screwed, come here bitching and then refuse to acknowledge that in
retrospect, buying a PNY was a bad idea.

Most people eventually realize that anyone can sell a product that works
and everyone eventually sells a turd, the difference is what they do about
the turd.
--
Mac Cool
  #8  
Old September 5th 04, 01:33 AM
Jeff B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


CompUSA does not fix, only replace - with an equivalent card from
another manufacturer, or a later model from the same manufacturer
if the original is not stocked.


really? Are you saying that if I bought a x800 pro from Comp,
then when they got x800xt's in stock, I could 'trade up' to the
x800xt (for more money, of course).


Wanna wait around for a recycled PNY defect ? PNY demonstrated
do not care about failed product.


You sure got that right!


Also, if you read the small-print of the PNY (er... ) "lifetime
warranty", you will see that it only applies to the production
lifetime of that particular model, which for some PNY lines is less
than 6 months.


Good point, but I've found that if a card lasts 6 months, it will
last 'forever', forever meaning until it dies
of absolescence.

So if it is out of production and PNY does not
keep spare inventory, where are they going to get one for you ??
Oh, I know.... send you someone else's defective return.


LOL! They do that even when they have do have spare inventory!

  #9  
Old September 5th 04, 01:42 AM
Jeff B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I was sympathizing until you wrote that... You took your chances, got
screwed, come here bitching


So you are saying that anyone who has the misfortune of getting a bad
card deserves to get screwed because after all, they "took a chance".

and then refuse to acknowledge that in
retrospect, buying a PNY was a bad idea.


Did you get my post mixed up with somebody elses?
Must have because
1. I did NOT get screwed by the purchase of a PNY card.
The card worked perectly.

2. Buying a PNY card was not a bad idea since it worked perfectly.

next time, try reading a persons post before you falsely accuse them of
wrong doing.



  #10  
Old September 5th 04, 01:48 AM
Jeff B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



rms wrote:

Try using that same editor (or download a pre-modded bios from
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...eadid=17272276
etc., that fixes the freezing prob and perhaps raises the default core
voltage.

rms



Thanks RMS. Actually, I did eactly that, I used a BIOS editor to
fix the "can't change the clock" problem and that was the end of that
type of failure. I played D3 for 2-3 hours crash free after moding the
BIOS. Just as I thought I had successfully worked around the crashing
problem, a completely different prob for which there was no BIOS fix
surfaced.
It became incompatible with the Intel .inf update that I need to run for
my mobo.
That was the last straw, I called Outpost and got an RMA number.

 




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