R420 Shows up at IDF

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10364

quote:

"However of more interest was that it appears that ATI's future high
end part R420 made a small appearance. According to Tweakers.net, in a
short part discussing the GDDR-3 graphics memory, which currently has
speeds in the range of 500 - 700MHz (1 - 1.4GHz effective) ATI
demonstrated a demo of the upcoming, DirectX9 heavy title, Colin McRae
Rally 4 on R420, which was quoted as running at 2 - 3 time faster than
present DirectX9 capable hardware. We contacted ATI to verify if this
was R420 and they stated that they had demonstrated the title running
on their future "Next Generation Hardware" which is as good an
confirmation of this being R420 as you can get."

"R420" wrote in message
om...
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10364

quote:

"However of more interest was that it appears that ATI's future high
end part R420 made a small appearance. According to Tweakers.net, in a
short part discussing the GDDR-3 graphics memory, which currently has
speeds in the range of 500 - 700MHz (1 - 1.4GHz effective) ATI
demonstrated a demo of the upcoming, DirectX9 heavy title, Colin McRae
Rally 4 on R420, which was quoted as running at 2 - 3 time faster than
present DirectX9 capable hardware. We contacted ATI to verify if this
was R420 and they stated that they had demonstrated the title running
on their future "Next Generation Hardware" which is as good an
confirmation of this being R420 as you can get."


I'd be very surprised if the R420 (AGP version) has 2 to 3 times as much
performance as any current offering, but I don't think it's beyond the realm
of possibility for the PCI Express version to be that fast. I originally
heard that the R423 (PCI Express card) was going to be twice as fast as the
9800 Pro. It should be a real screamer regardless!

There are going to be a lot of changes happening to the PC besides PCI
Express within the next year, and I still plan to sit tight on what I have
until the fall of 2005. Since I have a 2.8GHz P4, 1GB of PC-3200 RAM and a
9800 Pro, I should do quite well until the second half of next year. Just
think of what might be out by then! I also expect that there will be a 2nd
or possibly 3rd revision of PCI Express by then too. For sure I'll need to
build a whole new system and no doubt I will really appreciate the
performance boost.

"NightSky 421" wrote in message ...

I'd be very surprised if the R420 (AGP version) has 2 to 3 times as much
performance as any current offering, but I don't think it's beyond the realm
of possibility for the PCI Express version to be that fast.

Why do you think that the PCI-Express version, R423, will be much
faster than the AGP version, R420?


Derek

"Derek Baker" wrote in message
m...

Why do you think that the PCI-Express version, R423, will be much
faster than the AGP version, R420?



New architecture mainly. There was a good article about PCI Express in the
latest issue of Computer Games magazine and info on the Internet as well.

Sorry, but PCI-E does not offer much of an immediate performance increase,
all other things being equal, over it's AGP based equivalent. Considering
that the AGP bus in a 4x configuration has not even come close to saturation
levels even with the 9800XT pushed to its limits, it would follow that the
increased bus bandwidth of PCI-E won't make much of a difference. It's the
age old tale of upgrading the part that isn't currently the bottleneck...
eg. 512mb of RAM isn't going to do **** for performance in a Pentium 75mhz
as opposed to 128mb RAM.

--
Tony DiMarzio


"NightSky 421" wrote in message
...
"Derek Baker" wrote in message
m...

Why do you think that the PCI-Express version, R423, will be much
faster than the AGP version, R420?



New architecture mainly. There was a good article about PCI Express in
the
latest issue of Computer Games magazine and info on the Internet as well.

It's the
age old tale of upgrading the part that isn't currently the bottleneck...
eg. 512mb of RAM isn't going to do **** for performance in a Pentium 75mhz
as opposed to 128mb RAM.


Absolutely. PCI-E will just increase the throughput from the mobo to/from
the video card. It wont by itself make the video card any faster.
Available throughputs via AGP x8 have not been exceeded on software
available now, and I cant see a reason to upgrade until they do (and the
point that they do is some way off).

PCI-E is a *marketing trick* to differentiate new gfx processors from the
current families, and more importantly, its function is to force a total
upgrade of the system (mobo, processor, memory) when all you really want to
do is upgrade the video card.

The thing that *will* make new gfx processors better is that they can create
better visuals at current frame-rates. I suspect that the new gfx
processors will still be able to do that if they are placed on AGP x8 card
packages, given that the new gfx cards are of the same order of speed
(x2-x3).

And anyway, x2 to x3 seems like not much of an increase to warrant a totally
new system to me, especially when a typical high end card now can output
frame rates faster than my monitor can display them!

I guess the only unknown is DirectX 10 and how current hardware will cope
with it... but, well, a 9500 is directX9...

S

"Sham B" wrote in message
t.net...
It's the
age old tale of upgrading the part that isn't currently the
bottleneck...
eg. 512mb of RAM isn't going to do **** for performance in a Pentium
75mhz
as opposed to 128mb RAM.


Absolutely. PCI-E will just increase the throughput from the mobo to/from
the video card. It wont by itself make the video card any faster.
Available throughputs via AGP x8 have not been exceeded on software
available now, and I cant see a reason to upgrade until they do (and the
point that they do is some way off).

PCI-E is a *marketing trick* to differentiate new gfx processors from the
current families, and more importantly, its function is to force a total
upgrade of the system (mobo, processor, memory) when all you really want
to
do is upgrade the video card.

The thing that *will* make new gfx processors better is that they can
create
better visuals at current frame-rates. I suspect that the new gfx
processors will still be able to do that if they are placed on AGP x8 card
packages, given that the new gfx cards are of the same order of speed
(x2-x3).

And anyway, x2 to x3 seems like not much of an increase to warrant a
totally
new system to me, especially when a typical high end card now can output
frame rates faster than my monitor can display them!

I guess the only unknown is DirectX 10 and how current hardware will cope
with it... but, well, a 9500 is directX9...

S



Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI Express
is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of course, as you
suggest, that marketing is behind it. Anyway, it's good news for those of
us wanting to hang onto AGP for a while yet.

The unfortunate answer is...................... yes you guessed it.
Marketing. Lol. I see the same **** happen at the company I work for. Wrap
it in silver packaging and change the name and all of the sudden you have a
new product that you have to shell out more money for.

--
Tony DiMarzio


"NightSky 421" wrote in message
...
"Sham B" wrote in message
t.net...
It's the
age old tale of upgrading the part that isn't currently the
bottleneck...
eg. 512mb of RAM isn't going to do **** for performance in a Pentium
75mhz
as opposed to 128mb RAM.


Absolutely. PCI-E will just increase the throughput from the mobo
to/from
the video card. It wont by itself make the video card any faster.
Available throughputs via AGP x8 have not been exceeded on software
available now, and I cant see a reason to upgrade until they do (and the
point that they do is some way off).

PCI-E is a *marketing trick* to differentiate new gfx processors from
the
current families, and more importantly, its function is to force a total
upgrade of the system (mobo, processor, memory) when all you really want
to
do is upgrade the video card.

The thing that *will* make new gfx processors better is that they can
create
better visuals at current frame-rates. I suspect that the new gfx
processors will still be able to do that if they are placed on AGP x8
card
packages, given that the new gfx cards are of the same order of speed
(x2-x3).

And anyway, x2 to x3 seems like not much of an increase to warrant a
totally
new system to me, especially when a typical high end card now can output
frame rates faster than my monitor can display them!

I guess the only unknown is DirectX 10 and how current hardware will
cope
with it... but, well, a 9500 is directX9...

S



Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI
Express
is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of course, as you
suggest, that marketing is behind it. Anyway, it's good news for those of
us wanting to hang onto AGP for a while yet.

Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI
Express is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of
There are advantages to PCI Express (like being able to have more than one
slot in the computer) and it'll be good when it's standard. I imagine with
the rollout of the BTX form factor, they're just trying to get a jump on
things.

"Tony DiMarzio" wrote in message
...
The unfortunate answer is...................... yes you guessed it.
Marketing. Lol. I see the same **** happen at the company I work for. Wrap
it in silver packaging and change the name and all of the sudden you have
a
new product that you have to shell out more money for.



Heh...that sounds like marketing! Like I say though, PCI Express is not a
hang up for me anyhow since I see myself doing well with what I already have
for some time to come. I still very much look forward to seeing
side-by-side benchmark comparisons betwen an AGP card and the equivalent PCI
Express card on the same processor, etc.. I guess we'll have to wait and
see. :-)