VSYNC Stuttering

Oh yes, one more thing. Ensure your power supply is able to cope with your
present new video card's requirements. Most of the FX series cards require a
minimum of '350' watts but based upon your setup I would go for at least 400
watts.

regards

B
"edde" wrote in message
...
First off, love my FX5900!
Super fast and 100% stable!

I noticed the strange flicker problem others were having in Unreal 2k3. I
fixed it by enabling Vsync.
However, an new, small problem arises.
Games tend to stutter slightly. It's most noticeable in Madden 2003. It's
almost as if the game goes from fast to slow (rather than losing frame
rate).
I ran FRAPS, and noticed that my framerate would stay at 60fps, or
sometimes
50fps.
I thought this was odd, but after doing a search, I read this is normal
when
Vsync is enabled. That is, the framerate will run at half the refresh rate
(I run at 1024x768 x100hz), so 50hz, or 60hz, or the refresh rate. So, the
game will run along at 60hz, if framerate drops slightly below, it will
quickly switch to 50hz.
I find this very annoying, and the problem can be remedied by disabling
Vsync.
However, then the flickering shows it's ugly face

Is there anyway to have my cake and eat it too (no flickering, no
stuttering?)
I get approximately the same results (and framerates) at 800x600, and
1280x1024.

This is an article I read on the subject:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vs...aaM.com&rnum=5

A7N8X Deluxe
Barton 2800+
MSI FX5900 (430/900)
44.71's
WinXP SP1

I'm using Windows XP SP1, Directx 9b, Nvidia's 44.71's, refresh rates fixed
via Rivatuner, all games run at 1024x768, 100hz.
It seems to be an inherent problem with Vsync.

"B" wrote in message
...
You have SP1 which fixes part of the 60 hertz problem but I recommend you
also upgrade to Direct X 9.0, ensure your motherboard chipset drivers are
the latest and greatest and finally check the resolution your monitor is
set
at. If you are using a TFT monitor there will be some limitations based on
the TFT response time.

regards

B
"edde" wrote in message
...
First off, love my FX5900!
Super fast and 100% stable!

I noticed the strange flicker problem others were having in Unreal 2k3.
I
fixed it by enabling Vsync.
However, an new, small problem arises.
Games tend to stutter slightly. It's most noticeable in Madden 2003.
It's
almost as if the game goes from fast to slow (rather than losing frame
rate).
I ran FRAPS, and noticed that my framerate would stay at 60fps, or
sometimes
50fps.
I thought this was odd, but after doing a search, I read this is normal
when
Vsync is enabled. That is, the framerate will run at half the refresh
rate
(I run at 1024x768 x100hz), so 50hz, or 60hz, or the refresh rate. So,
the
game will run along at 60hz, if framerate drops slightly below, it will
quickly switch to 50hz.
I find this very annoying, and the problem can be remedied by disabling
Vsync.
However, then the flickering shows it's ugly face

Is there anyway to have my cake and eat it too (no flickering, no
stuttering?)
I get approximately the same results (and framerates) at 800x600, and
1280x1024.

This is an article I read on the subject:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vs...aaM.com&rnum=5

A7N8X Deluxe
Barton 2800+
MSI FX5900 (430/900)
44.71's
WinXP SP1

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"edde" wrote in message
...
First off, love my FX5900!
Super fast and 100% stable!

I noticed the strange flicker problem others were having in Unreal 2k3.
I
fixed it by enabling Vsync.
However, an new, small problem arises.
Games tend to stutter slightly. It's most noticeable in Madden 2003.
It's
almost as if the game goes from fast to slow (rather than losing frame
rate).
I ran FRAPS, and noticed that my framerate would stay at 60fps, or
sometimes
50fps.
I thought this was odd, but after doing a search, I read this is normal
when
Vsync is enabled. That is, the framerate will run at half the refresh
rate
(I run at 1024x768 x100hz), so 50hz, or 60hz, or the refresh rate. So,
the
game will run along at 60hz, if framerate drops slightly below, it will
quickly switch to 50hz.
I find this very annoying, and the problem can be remedied by disabling
Vsync.
However, then the flickering shows it's ugly face

Is there anyway to have my cake and eat it too (no flickering, no
stuttering?)
I get approximately the same results (and framerates) at 800x600, and
1280x1024.

This is an article I read on the subject:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vs...aaM.com&rnum=5

A7N8X Deluxe
Barton 2800+
MSI FX5900 (430/900)
44.71's
WinXP SP1




People are always complaining about Nvida cards stuttering. I've never
found
the stuttering to produce low FPS figures. It's almost as if the image
isn't
being updated at all and so the low FPS isn't calculated.

I'm surprised you don't find image tearing a bigger problem with sync
disabled.

If you can notice the image dropping from 60 to 50 I should try running in
triple buffer.

Nope, no tearing, just the flickering with Vsync off. The game plays MUCH
better with Vsync off.
As mentioned, with Vsync on the game seems to stutter slightly. But more
noticeable is the way the game tends to slow down with lots of players on
screen, the speed up with only one or two. I thought this was a feature of
the game, until I turned off Vsync. It's almost like going to slo-mo, to
regular speed, to slo-mo...

I think it's a problem with the way some games handle Vsync, or perhaps an
inherent problem with Vsync itself , as mentioned in the article link I
posted.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vs...aaM.com&rnum=5

"Gnasher" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 16:11:44 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:


People are always complaining about Nvida cards stuttering.

Really? It's not hard to find the same complaint regarding the ATI
9700/9800 cards either.

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

If you can notice the image dropping from 60 to 50 I should try running in
triple buffer.

How do you run in triple buffer?

"Gnasher" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 16:11:44 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:


People are always complaining about Nvida cards stuttering.

Really? It's not hard to find the same complaint regarding the ATI
9700/9800 cards either.

And your point is?
This is a Nvidia group and stuttering games is one of those things many of
us suffer from.

"Gnasher" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:35:37 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:


"Gnasher" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 16:11:44 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:


People are always complaining about Nvida cards stuttering.

Really? It's not hard to find the same complaint regarding the ATI
9700/9800 cards either.

And your point is?
This is a Nvidia group and stuttering games is one of those things many
of
us suffer from.


Reading all of the above lines should make it clear what my point is.
Or do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Your the one with the problem!
Have you become so sensititive to pro ATI attacks on this NG that you read
every legitimate Nvifia problem as such an attack. What happens with ATI
cards is no consolation to this guy.

"Gnasher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:05:51 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:


Your the one with the problem!
Have you become so sensititive to pro ATI attacks on this NG that you
read
every legitimate Nvifia problem as such an attack. What happens with ATI
cards is no consolation to this guy.


Nope, you still need to take a reading comprehension class.
He said, "People are always complaining about *Nvida* cards
stuttering.". Which implies stuttering is a problem specific to Nvidia
cards. What I'm doing is killing the BS in its tracks and pointing out
that stuttering is also a common complaint of the Radeon cards too.
That's all my point is and I'm not being pro or anti anything. Got it?

I think the stuttering may be an inherent problem with using Vsync "On".

"Gnasher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:05:51 +0100, "John Russell"
wrote:


Your the one with the problem!
Have you become so sensititive to pro ATI attacks on this NG that you
read
every legitimate Nvifia problem as such an attack. What happens with ATI
cards is no consolation to this guy.


Nope, you still need to take a reading comprehension class.
He said, "People are always complaining about *Nvida* cards
stuttering.". Which implies stuttering is a problem specific to Nvidia
cards.
No, it implys that this is a common problem posted on this Nvidia, and other
Nvidia NG's. If he, or anyone else wanted to know what ATI cards did they
should be looking else where. If this was a general video card NG your point
would be valid, but it isn't!

edde wrote:

Games tend to stutter slightly. It's most noticeable in Madden 2003.
It's almost as if the game goes from fast to slow (rather than losing
frame rate).
I ran FRAPS, and noticed that my framerate would stay at 60fps, or
sometimes 50fps.
I thought this was odd, but after doing a search, I read this is
normal when Vsync is enabled. That is, the framerate will run at half
the refresh rate (I run at 1024x768 x100hz), so 50hz, or 60hz, or the
refresh rate. So, the game will run along at 60hz, if framerate drops
slightly below, it will quickly switch to 50hz.

That's a "feature" of vsync. Whole frame are shown in sync with the monitor
rate. So you get 1 frame per monitor cycle, 1 per 2 cycles, 1 per 3 cycles,
etc. depending on the rate at which the system can generate the frames. If
the cpu/gpu can't keep up to output at 1 frame per cycle it'll drop to 1 per
2 cycles, resulting in half the refresh rate of the monitor. If it can't
manage to do half, it'll drop more to 1/3, 1/4, etc. Vsync prevents visual
tearing - either turn it on or off, you can't prevent tearing (you might be
lucky enough to not see it, or not notice it though, or be not panning so
tearing doesn't occur anyway) at non-sync'd refresh rates. It's not a bug,
it has nothing do with particular driver versions, or what version of DX you
have installed, and is independent of the gfx hardware.

You could reduce the stuttering by running at a lower monitor refresh rate -
eg. if the game can consistently run between say 90fps and 120fps, and you
have refresh rate at 100hz, then at non-vsync 90fps the output will be
50fps, but if you drop the monitor to 85hz then at 90fps or 120fps you'll
always get 85hz. For more consistent performance across the board drop your
refresh low as you can be happy with - most people don't notice the
difference between say 85fps and 100fps anyway, although for a monitor I
can't handle anything less than 72hz or else I get eyestrain, so I tend to
run my monitor at 75hz or 85hz.

Dan