Someone who tells it like it is...and the truth shall set you free.

http://www.omegacorner.com/

Intimidation over innovation? Good one, Nvidia. It's the beginning of the
end. Time to wake up and see the writing on the wall (if it wasn't smeared
by lowering the LOD settings in favor of better 3Dmark scores...)

(waiting for the fanbois)

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:CAFNa.15117$I8.7233@rwcrnsc53...
http://www.omegacorner.com/

Intimidation over innovation? Good one, Nvidia. It's the beginning of
the
end. Time to wake up and see the writing on the wall (if it wasn't
smeared
by lowering the LOD settings in favor of better 3Dmark scores...)

(waiting for the fanbois)


When will you guys get off projecting Nvidia as the big satan.

Did I mention myself anywhere in that paragraph? ;^{ ---- I didn't think
so! Next, please...

The pro's and
con's of "open" software is a debate in it's own right.

Did you even read what Omega had to say? THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE! (oops, damn
caps lock key always sticks while I'm making a point. Sorry...you can go
back to sleep now...)

The idea that Nvidia
have invented "closed" software and are the only company who persues their
rights under the law is rediculous.

Whose idea is this? Yours, perhaps? The idea that they are alienating
themselves from a substantial fraction of the gaming community with their
unnecessary bullying, backpedalling, harassment, underhanded behavior, and
outright lying is ridiculous, and of possible concern to shareholders and
the Board of Directors. I dumped my shares awhile ago (at a substantial
profit no less). I still use Nvidia chipset mobos in AMD system builds. I
don't play favorites. I just tell it like it is. You didn't read the link
did you? If you did, it must have missed your brain on the way from your
optic nerve to your keyboard...

I suppose all you Radeon users run your
software using Linux to avoid using software of that other "devil" called
Microsoft.

"all you Radeon users" eh? Jumping to conclusions, are we? Maybe you want to
look before you leap? FYI I own many examples of either. I can give chapter
and verse of good and bad from both ATI and Nvidia. Like I said, I don't
play favorites...

Sounds like you do not understand what NVIDIA is doing in these situations.
Basicially they do no want drivers posted in any way which might be linked
in name to them on any 3rd party website. That is because they do not want
to get sued by anyone over faulty drivers. People will sue anyone for almost
any reason and NVIDIA is taking this action for this reason. Oh, and by the
way the first manufacturer to "cheat" with drivers some years back was ATI
and not NVIDIA. I really wish both manufacturers would stick to drivers that
perform well in ALL situations, benchmarking or otherwise...

regards

B
"Dave" wrote in message
news:CAFNa.15117$I8.7233@rwcrnsc53...
http://www.omegacorner.com/

Intimidation over innovation? Good one, Nvidia. It's the beginning of the
end. Time to wake up and see the writing on the wall (if it wasn't smeared
by lowering the LOD settings in favor of better 3Dmark scores...)

(waiting for the fanbois)

"B" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you do not understand what NVIDIA is doing in these
situations.
Basicially they do no want drivers posted in any way which might be linked
in name to them on any 3rd party website. That is because they do not want
to get sued by anyone over faulty drivers. People will sue anyone for
almost
any reason and NVIDIA is taking this action for this reason. Oh, and by
the
way the first manufacturer to "cheat" with drivers some years back was ATI
and not NVIDIA. I really wish both manufacturers would stick to drivers
that
perform well in ALL situations, benchmarking or otherwise...


I'd be interested in seeing how many hardware manufactures have been sued by
users who have"knowingly" installed 3rd party drivers for that hardware. I
can't see any way Nvidia can be held legally responsible. Also...damage to
PC's ??? I don't think so, Tim.

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

snip

These guys don't just want to report faults, they actively engage in
fixing
them.

And this is a bad thing? I guess we should all just live with the faults
then? Is that what you're suggesting? Amazing! As far as I can see, he's
done nothing illegal. He didn't touch the source code. The only thing the
legal department could have found issue with is the Nvidia banner.
*You*obviously*did*not*read*what*he*said*did*you?* And all his mods can be
easily duplicated in the privacy of your own home. He was just providing his
mods as a service to the community. His disclaimer is clearly worded on the
install screen. Anyone with half a brain would realize what that meant.

This may sound great to you but it's only considered acceptable
behaviour in the "open" software community like Linux.

One more time: HE DIDN'T TOUCH THE $%^*@! SOURCE CODE! (damn, there goes
that pesky caps lock again! Again, sorry...) Why is this so difficult to
comprehend? I hope you aren't working for Nvidia's PR, because you're doing
one hell of a bad job...either you're trying to snow me or you're snowblind
yourself. Please read more carefully, then get back to me, ok?

The vast majority of
companies do not condone this behaviour, so don't go making out Nvidia is
being especially pig-headed about this.

If he had modified the source code, I suppose you would actually have a
valid argument. He did not, therefore neither do you...

And I'm going to keep saying you becuase it's clear from how you presented
the original link that YOU agree whole heartedly with the what is posted
there!

Why wouldn't he tell the truth? Can you explain this one please? Sure I
agree. If he had modified the source code, this would be tantamount to
violation of IP statutes. But even Nvidia's legal eagles apparently saw what
has so far eluded you in your reasoning. I agree with Omega completely. It
is destructive to the spirit of the community. And it will absolutely have
lasting repercussions...never mind that ATI has better product this time
around. It just strikes me as being silly that instead of diverting
resources to effectively better their product line, Nvidia is favoring the
strongarm approach. This speaks VOLUMES about a company's ethics and
priorities. Well, if you still don't see it, no point in talking to a wall,
is there?

"B" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you do not understand what NVIDIA is doing in these
situations.

Sure I do.

Basicially they do no want drivers posted in any way which might be linked
in name to them on any 3rd party website. That is because they do not want
to get sued by anyone over faulty drivers.

Not possible...nobody gets sued over third-party packages. Especially when
the disclaimer is so clearly worded on the install screen. If you think
otherwise, then please feel free to elaborate...

People will sue anyone for almost
any reason and NVIDIA is taking this action for this reason.

Bzzt...wrong, thank you for playing. Next contestant please! Sure someone
can file suit...the court can also throw it out before it gets to a hearing
on grounds of frivolity and/or lack of merit. Who does that cost? The person
who didn't read the disclaimer and paid for a retainer anyway. Next case...

Oh, and by the
way the first manufacturer to "cheat" with drivers some years back was ATI
and not NVIDIA.

That's debatable. ATI wasn't even a blip on the gaming radar when the TNT
came out. And until the R300, they weren't even really competitive...sure
they cheated. No question at all. I'm not saying otherwise. And likely still
do. But ATI is now doing themselves a tremendous service with their
commitment to quality and to the spirit of the community, and if they want
to stay on top, it will continue exactly in the direction it is going.
Nvidia's downfall is being propagated by a serial comedy of errors on their
part alone. If they want to get back on the throne they have a long way to
go...now they have to shovel themselves back out from under THEIR OWN pile
as well...ah well, so falleth Rome...

I really wish both manufacturers would stick to drivers that
perform well in ALL situations, benchmarking or otherwise...

This is absolutely true, and I agree here completely. That said, I do not
like when rendering quality is at all buggered for the sake of some
arbitrary benchmark. Optimization of code paths is one thing, but reduction
of detail for the sake of placating performance anxieties is to me an
underhanded and unacceptable solution. YMMV.

regards

B
"Dave" wrote in message
news:CAFNa.15117$I8.7233@rwcrnsc53...
http://www.omegacorner.com/

Intimidation over innovation? Good one, Nvidia. It's the beginning of
the
end. Time to wake up and see the writing on the wall (if it wasn't
smeared
by lowering the LOD settings in favor of better 3Dmark scores...)

(waiting for the fanbois)

"Dave" wrote in message
news:4YINa.44603$926.4905@sccrnsc03...

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

snip

These guys don't just want to report faults, they actively engage in
fixing
them.

And this is a bad thing? I guess we should all just live with the faults
then? Is that what you're suggesting? Amazing! As far as I can see, he's
done nothing illegal. He didn't touch the source code. The only thing the
legal department could have found issue with is the Nvidia banner.
*You*obviously*did*not*read*what*he*said*did*you?* And all his mods can
be
easily duplicated in the privacy of your own home. He was just providing
his
mods as a service to the community. His disclaimer is clearly worded on
the
install screen. Anyone with half a brain would realize what that meant.

This may sound great to you but it's only considered acceptable
behaviour in the "open" software community like Linux.

One more time: HE DIDN'T TOUCH THE $%^*@! SOURCE CODE! (damn, there goes
that pesky caps lock again! Again, sorry...) Why is this so difficult to
comprehend? I hope you aren't working for Nvidia's PR, because you're
doing
one hell of a bad job...either you're trying to snow me or you're
snowblind
yourself. Please read more carefully, then get back to me, ok?

The vast majority of
companies do not condone this behaviour, so don't go making out Nvidia
is
being especially pig-headed about this.

If he had modified the source code, I suppose you would actually have a
valid argument. He did not, therefore neither do you...

And I'm going to keep saying you becuase it's clear from how you
presented
the original link that YOU agree whole heartedly with the what is posted
there!

Why wouldn't he tell the truth? Can you explain this one please? Sure I
agree. If he had modified the source code, this would be tantamount to
violation of IP statutes. But even Nvidia's legal eagles apparently saw
what
has so far eluded you in your reasoning. I agree with Omega completely. It
is destructive to the spirit of the community. And it will absolutely have
lasting repercussions...never mind that ATI has better product this time
around. It just strikes me as being silly that instead of diverting
resources to effectively better their product line, Nvidia is favoring the
strongarm approach. This speaks VOLUMES about a company's ethics and
priorities. Well, if you still don't see it, no point in talking to a
wall,
is there?


Your whole attitude is that if it benefits the end user than it's right. The
law does not see things this way.
Agreeing with what any site is doing is not a question of truth or lies,
it's about sharing the morality or ethos of the site. I happen to believe
everthing they say about what Nvidia has done to them to be true, and the
ethos of what they where trying to do. That dosn't make it legally right,
nor does it make Nvidia unique in trying to shut the activity down.

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:4YINa.44603$926.4905@sccrnsc03...

snip



Your whole attitude is that if it benefits the end user than it's right.

You're placing overgeneralizations in my keyboard. No this is not "my whole
attitude". My position is that if Nvidia had ANY legal grounds to justify
this they would have most certainly asserted them. And, naturally, Omega
would be forced to comply with the letter of the law. Hence, after all that,
the removal of the "offending" banner. Now what, so they get nowhere with
Omega (because clearly he is in conformance with the letter of the law) so
they go bully Driverheaven into removing his drivers? Hmmm...I'm not sure
how you can get your above statement out of what I've already stated, but I
hope this serves to clarify things a little...

The
law does not see things this way.

I would imagine that if there were really ANY legal grounds to this
whatsoever then they would have been used as leverage, wouldn't you think?

Agreeing with what any site is doing is not a question of truth or lies,
it's about sharing the morality or ethos of the site.

You don't perchance think that what Omega was doing constitutes some moral
violation do you?

I happen to believe
everthing they say about what Nvidia has done to them to be true, and the
ethos of what they where trying to do. That dosn't

....insert "necessarily"...

make it legally right,
nor does it make Nvidia unique in trying to shut the activity down.

Well at least we agree on something! ;-) But still your position
intrinsically *seems to be* (not "is") that Omega was violating the law.
This naturally does not bode well for people who like to tweak their Nvidia
driver sets, maybe Unwinder will be forced to stop work on Rivatuner, etc.
etc. Think that's next? (Survey sez...) I think you are skirting the issue
of legality here. My position is that he has complied exactly with the
letter of the law, which is clearly manifest in his statement, and he went
the extra step farther to let the community know why, and that he ain't
gonna take it either. Good for him. Now Nvidia gets to deal with the
backlash of their faux pas...

Wow what a debate..I have used the omega drivers on quiet a few occasions
and it CLEARLY states they are not supported by nvidia in any way @ all.
Secondly Dave i agree wholeheartdly with what you had to say. Have people
forgot that "mr omega" was doing the gamming community a favour ?? One he
isnt paid for and one that if we are honest would of took a hell of a lot
of his time. I do not belive he has done anything illegal @ all (and i had
allready read his statement on his site as i frequently go there and browse
the forums ect). My opinon is simple = He has done nothing wrong, he is
being treated wrongly/underhandly/****ty for want of a better word. While i
agree with {quote}it's only considered acceptable
behaviour in the "open" software community like Linux.{quote}. Yes you may
have a point there mr Russell but while acceptable behaviour is one thing
illegal behaviour is another and mr"omega" DID NOT BREAK THE LAW. I mean if
you really have read the whole link and understood it and were able to read
between the lines then surely nvidias blood thirsty law hounds would not of
only had an issue with mr "Omega" using there logo (they would of had a
issue with lots more and would of taken legal action if they belived they
were right and mr "omega "was breaking the law. (come on it would of been a
warning to others that "tinker" with drivers and would of had much press.
Thats all i have to say other than its us the consumers who loose out here
(again) and hopefully nvidia will to which will hopefully in turn make them
realize what fools they have been.

"Dave" wrote in message
et...

"B" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you do not understand what NVIDIA is doing in these
situations.

Sure I do.

Basicially they do no want drivers posted in any way which might be
linked
in name to them on any 3rd party website. That is because they do not
want
to get sued by anyone over faulty drivers.

Not possible...nobody gets sued over third-party packages. Especially when
the disclaimer is so clearly worded on the install screen. If you think
otherwise, then please feel free to elaborate...

People will sue anyone for almost
any reason and NVIDIA is taking this action for this reason.

Bzzt...wrong, thank you for playing. Next contestant please! Sure someone
can file suit...the court can also throw it out before it gets to a
hearing
on grounds of frivolity and/or lack of merit. Who does that cost? The
person
who didn't read the disclaimer and paid for a retainer anyway. Next
case...

Oh, and by the
way the first manufacturer to "cheat" with drivers some years back was
ATI
and not NVIDIA.

That's debatable. ATI wasn't even a blip on the gaming radar when the TNT
came out. And until the R300, they weren't even really competitive...sure
they cheated. No question at all. I'm not saying otherwise. And likely
still
do. But ATI is now doing themselves a tremendous service with their
commitment to quality and to the spirit of the community, and if they want
to stay on top, it will continue exactly in the direction it is going.
Nvidia's downfall is being propagated by a serial comedy of errors on
their
part alone. If they want to get back on the throne they have a long way to
go...now they have to shovel themselves back out from under THEIR OWN pile
as well...ah well, so falleth Rome...

I really wish both manufacturers would stick to drivers that
perform well in ALL situations, benchmarking or otherwise...

This is absolutely true, and I agree here completely. That said, I do not
like when rendering quality is at all buggered for the sake of some
arbitrary benchmark. Optimization of code paths is one thing, but
reduction
of detail for the sake of placating performance anxieties is to me an
underhanded and unacceptable solution. YMMV.

regards

B
"Dave" wrote in message
news:CAFNa.15117$I8.7233@rwcrnsc53...
http://www.omegacorner.com/

Intimidation over innovation? Good one, Nvidia. It's the beginning of
the
end. Time to wake up and see the writing on the wall (if it wasn't
smeared
by lowering the LOD settings in favor of better 3Dmark scores...)

(waiting for the fanbois)

The only thing I have against Nvidia is there really UNREASONABLE high
prices for their cards.
Thomas

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:CAFNa.15117$I8.7233@rwcrnsc53...
http://www.omegacorner.com/

Intimidation over innovation? Good one, Nvidia. It's the beginning of
the
end. Time to wake up and see the writing on the wall (if it wasn't
smeared
by lowering the LOD settings in favor of better 3Dmark scores...)

(waiting for the fanbois)


When will you guys get off projecting Nvidia as the big satan. The pro's
and
con's of "open" software is a debate in it's own right. The idea that
Nvidia
have invented "closed" software and are the only company who persues their
rights under the law is rediculous.I suppose all you Radeon users run
your
software using Linux to avoid using software of that other "devil" called
Microsoft.