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Power calculations .-)



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 14th 07, 09:38 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Lars-Erik Østerud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Power calculations .-)

Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?

Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.

It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:

Enermax EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W

105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W

The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
something fishy, or what does that really tell you?

As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:

- Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
- Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
- Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
- Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
- Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
- Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card

Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.

How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?

Is there any tables or any experiences that would
help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live
  #2  
Old January 14th 07, 10:23 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Phil Weldon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default Power calculations .-)


'Lars-Erik Østerud' wrote, in part:
| Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.
|
| It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:
_____

The TOTAL power rating for you power supply is 350 Watts. The power rating
for each supply voltage is the MAXIMUM for that particular voltage, but the
TOTAL power used from ALL voltages must be 350 Watts or less.

Just estimating, but the TOTAL power consumption of your present system is
likely about 200 Watts. So it is likely that you can get by with your
present power supply, even after installing a nVidia 7600GS replacing the
Ti-4200. Your present system has very little hardware installed, the only
two power hungry devices are the CPU and the display adapter.

Try the new display adapter with your present power supply.

Phil Weldon

"Lars-Erik Østerud" .@. wrote in message
...
| Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?
|

| Enermax EG365P-VE
|
| +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
| 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W
|
| 105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W
|
| The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
| strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
| higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
| something fishy, or what does that really tell you?
|
| As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:
|
| - Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
| - Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
| - Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
| - Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
| - Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
| - Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card
|
| Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
| will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.
|
| How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
| It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?
|
| Is there any tables or any experiences that would
| help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
| --
| Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
| XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live


  #3  
Old January 14th 07, 11:09 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Amy L
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Power calculations .-)

Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

Amy

"Lars-Erik Østerud" .@. wrote in message
...
Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?

Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.

It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:

Enermax EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W

105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W

The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
something fishy, or what does that really tell you?

As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:

- Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
- Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
- Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
- Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
- Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
- Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card

Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.

How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?

Is there any tables or any experiences that would
help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live



  #4  
Old January 14th 07, 11:43 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Mr.E Solved!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 888
Default Power calculations .-)

Amy L wrote:
Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp



Yes, this link is useful, interesting, and geeky fun all in one. Works
fine in FF2.0.
  #5  
Old January 14th 07, 11:51 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Lars-Erik Østerud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Power calculations .-)

Amy L wrote:

Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp


He he, even stranger:

With my Nvidia GeForce4 Ti-series i get 97W total
With a Nvidia 7600GS card instead I get 94W total
With a Nvidia 7600GT card instead I get 98W total

It's actually saying that my Ti-4200 card is using
MORE power than the 7600GS, and only 1W less than
the 7600GT. These numbers can't be right, or...
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live
  #6  
Old January 14th 07, 11:51 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Lars-Erik Østerud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Power calculations .-)

Amy L wrote:

Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp


Must have some serious bugs :-)

First I got 97W, then I added a IDE RAID (for my S-ATA onboard raid to
be sure) and it raised to 220W. But if I added a "PCI NIC" or a single
"PCI IDE" card, then the total suddenly was 20W. Must be something :-)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live
  #7  
Old January 15th 07, 12:33 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Lars-Erik Østerud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Power calculations .-)

Phil Weldon wrote:

Just estimating, but the TOTAL power consumption of your present system is
likely about 200 Watts. So it is likely that you can get by with your
present power supply, even after installing a nVidia 7600GS replacing the
Ti-4200. Your present system has very little hardware installed, the only
two power hungry devices are the CPU and the display adapter.


Do you have any idea on how much Amps the P4 (478 socket) 2.54GZ uses?
As it is that and a new video-card that must share the 26A on the 12V
(as I have been told the total wattage is less than my Ti-4200 card,
but the load is moved from the 3.3/5V rail to the 12V rail instead.

| +3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
| 32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W


So the question is. Is 26A enough for CPU + 7600GS + HDD + DVD-RW?
(ok, the mainboard with S-ATA controller and LAN also uses 12V or?)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live
  #8  
Old January 15th 07, 01:06 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 141
Default Power calculations .-)

did not work for me either..........
simple system needed 850W........................??????????/
peter
"Lars-Erik Østerud" .@. wrote in message
...
Amy L wrote:

Here is a good resource for PS calculations.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp


Must have some serious bugs :-)

First I got 97W, then I added a IDE RAID (for my S-ATA onboard raid to
be sure) and it raised to 220W. But if I added a "PCI NIC" or a single
"PCI IDE" card, then the total suddenly was 20W. Must be something :-)
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live



  #9  
Old January 15th 07, 01:45 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Lars-Erik Østerud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Power calculations .-)

Lars-Erik Østerud wrote:

Enermax EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W


Found somthing interesting. Most versions of this PSU tested has a 16A
+12V line, but apparently I'm lucky and I have a newer model of it
(it's even possibly to buy new today, that's strange, 4 years after).

The strange totals (sum of wattage beeing higher that the total) by
this table I found at
http://www.enermax.com.tw/english/pr...y1.asp?PrID=29

It seems like the 3.3/5V and 12V share something inside the PSU.

EG365AX-VE(W) / EG365AX-VE(G) / EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5Vsb Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2.2A 350W
----185W---- 312W 5W 12W 11W
--------322W-------- --------28W--------- 350W

As you see from the table the 3.3/5 and 12 share 322W, but that should
mean that when moving the graphics card load from 3.3/5V (with the
Ti-4200) to 12V (with the 7600GS) the load is still in the same 322W

That is if I have understood how this "sharing" of power works :-)

--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
XP, Asus P4PE, 2.53 GHz, Asus V8420 (Ti4200), SB-Live
  #10  
Old January 15th 07, 02:12 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default Power calculations .-)

Lars-Erik Østerud wrote:
Anyoneout there have a clue about calculation power consumption?

Before I buy a new PSU I had a look at my old one.

It's a Enermax 350W and the label states these specs:

Enermax EG365P-VE

+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSb +3.3&5V Total
32A 32A 26A 1A 1A 2,2A 185W 350W

105W 160W 312W 5W 12W 11W 185W 350W

The last line is my calculated Watts for the lines,
strange that the sum of the individual lines is much
higher than the total (it's not on new PSUs). Is this
something fishy, or what does that really tell you?

As you see it has only one 12V line, and this today powers:

- Asus P4PE mainboard (with Promise S-ATA raid ctrlr)
- Intel P4 2.54 Ghz (478 socket) with stock fan
- Creative SB Live 1024 PCI sound card
- Plextor PX-716A DVD-writer
- Samsung Spinpoint 120 250GB S-ATA harddisk
- Asus V8440 Nvidia Ti-4200 video card

Now, if I replace the video card with a 7600GS
will this work, or will my PSU give up on me.

How much Amps will the other stuff in my rig use?
It's the CPU that takes most juice here, right?

Is there any tables or any experiences that would
help me calculate this? Or do I need a new PSU?


Pentium 4 Processor 2.53 GHz 61.5W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/det...px?sSpec=SL6PD

From 12V rail, this is (61.5W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 5.7A at 90$ efficiency.

DVD-writer 12V @ 1.5A max

Hard drive 12V @ 0.6A idle

7600GS 27.4W, 27.4W / 12V = 2.28A
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...r-noise_6.html

Cooling fans - 0.5A estimated

Total 12V == (5.7A + 1.5A + 0.6A + 2.28A + 0.5A) = 10.58A

The 3.3V and 5V consumption cannot be calculated exactly, but
allocating 50W should be enough. Total power for system approx:
(10.58 * 12) + 50W = 177W, and that power may arise when gaming
with a "key disk" inserted in the optical drive.

Neither the 12V consumption, nor the total power limit, are
being exceeded.

Power supplies are constrained by two limits (at least as
seen on their labels). The entire power supply has a thermal
limit, such that, if all outputs go to the max, the inside of
the chassis would get too hot. The primary circuit driving the
transformer, presumably has some limits. Those help define the
total power limit.

Any individual output, stressed to the maximum by itself, has
a higher limit, than when all are being stressed collectively.
If the neighbouring circuits are cool, one individual output can
give more output, as thermally conditions allow it.

Some outputs can share a transformer. You may see coupling between
output limits in that case (like if 3.3V and 5V shared resources).

Since outputs may share a transformer, the output voltages are
established by the turns ratio of the transformer, for each output.
The outputs are rectified after the transformer. When one output is
loaded, in a case where outputs share a common primary, it is not
possible to accurately regulate all outputs at the same time.
And that is why the outputs will use the full range of variation
allowed by the ATX spec. Only a few power supplies have completely
independent circuits and regulation, as it costs more to make.

Xbitlabs plots cross regulation for power supplies.

On this one, the 3.3V shows colored bands, meaning when the supply
is at full load, the 3.3V cannot keep up:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/oth...x-psu5_11.html

On this one, the 3.3V is tightly regulated, while the other two
outputs "flap in the breeze".

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/oth...atx-psu_6.html

This supply design was set so that the 5V always had a high output.
Which is why the 5V plot is mostly red. The Xbitlabs cross
regulation plots show plus/minus variation, and either a
+5% error, or a -5% error, would give a red color in the
plot. So these plots don't show whether the 5.0V was 5.25V or
4.75V. Merely that the output has hit the 5% tolerance mark.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/oth...tx-psu_13.html

The Xbitlabs plots consist of three images. One image shows the
3.3V output. The second is 5V. The third is 12V. The legend in
the upper right hand corner, labels which rail is being viewed.
The X and Y axis, show the level of power being extracted from
the rails. The "combined 3.3V and 5V" on the Y axis, is an
assumption by their reviewer, that the supply actually shares
resources for 3.3V and 5V, which is not always true. So
there are limits to the amount of intelligence contained in
their compact representation of regulation performance. Still,
having these plots is an excellent way to display how the
supply functions. It beats the hell out of web site reviews,
where all they do is compliment the manufacturer, on the color
of LEDs used inside the power supply :-)

Paul
 




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