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PC DVI to HDTV question
I'm trying to find out a bit about the 709 colour space that is used
to display HD material. Does the PC adjust the colour to the 709 standard before it sends the data, or does it only convert it from 32bit to 24bit? If it's done at the PC end, is this done in software or by the graphics card? Assuming the PC doesn't adjust the colour, is the PC (or any other source device equipped with a DVI output) meant to send a signal to the TV telling it to use the 709 colour space, or is the TV supposed to always use that if it thinks it's receiving HD (720p/1080i) material? If there is such a signal, is it sent by the software or hardware? If anyone can shed some light on these matters, it would be much appreciated. Doughboy |
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PC DVI to HDTV question
Uhhh, I think you are over-analyzing the situation. If the TV has a DVI
digital input, the connected PC should see it as just another monitor. You should then set it to the TV's native resolution and 32-bit color. All the colorspace conversion crap should be done by the TV. Whatever the TV uses internally may be entirely proprietary. With LCD panels, there are 6-bit panels and 8-bit panels, and the PC doesn't care. -- "War is the continuation of politics by other means. It can therefore be said that politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed." "Doughboy" wrote in message ... I'm trying to find out a bit about the 709 colour space that is used to display HD material. Does the PC adjust the colour to the 709 standard before it sends the data, or does it only convert it from 32bit to 24bit? If it's done at the PC end, is this done in software or by the graphics card? Assuming the PC doesn't adjust the colour, is the PC (or any other source device equipped with a DVI output) meant to send a signal to the TV telling it to use the 709 colour space, or is the TV supposed to always use that if it thinks it's receiving HD (720p/1080i) material? If there is such a signal, is it sent by the software or hardware? If anyone can shed some light on these matters, it would be much appreciated. Doughboy |
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PC DVI to HDTV question
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:48:05 -0500, "First of One" root@localhost
wrote: Uhhh, I think you are over-analyzing the situation. If the TV has a DVI digital input, the connected PC should see it as just another monitor. You should then set it to the TV's native resolution and 32-bit color. All the colorspace conversion crap should be done by the TV. Whatever the TV uses internally may be entirely proprietary. With LCD panels, there are 6-bit panels and 8-bit panels, and the PC doesn't care. The Nvidia graphics driver detects the TV correctly as "Sony TV (Digital Display)" and has an option "Treat display as HDTV" which is ticked. I can then set it to 480p,720p or 1080i. The TV's service menu lets you switch between the 601 colour space (used for SDTV) and the 709 colour space (used for HDTV). Playing the colour bars from the AVIA test DVD, you can clearly see the colours look different when switching between the two. I've got a feeling that the TV does the colour decoding itself with broadcasts received by it's internal tuner, whilst external sources have to do this before sending the video on to the TV. Doughboy |
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PC DVI to HDTV question
"Doughboy" wrote in message ... I'm trying to find out a bit about the 709 colour space that is used to display HD material. Does the PC adjust the colour to the 709 standard before it sends the data, or does it only convert it from 32bit to 24bit? If it's done at the PC end, is this done in software or by the graphics card? Assuming the PC doesn't adjust the colour, is the PC (or any other source device equipped with a DVI output) meant to send a signal to the TV telling it to use the 709 colour space, or is the TV supposed to always use that if it thinks it's receiving HD (720p/1080i) material? If there is such a signal, is it sent by the software or hardware? If anyone can shed some light on these matters, it would be much appreciated. Doughboy Windows has been using a "What you see is what you get" system for some time. To facilitate this printer and monitors either use standard colour spaces and identify them via Plug and Play, or you download a file containing a unique colour space definition. So yes, a PC outputs different RGB values depending upon the colour space required by the monitor. If you have Powerstrip you can change the monitor colour space, and one of those is HDTV. |
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PC DVI to HDTV question
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:16:43 -0000, "John Russell"
wrote: "Doughboy" wrote in message .. . I'm trying to find out a bit about the 709 colour space that is used to display HD material. Does the PC adjust the colour to the 709 standard before it sends the data, or does it only convert it from 32bit to 24bit? If it's done at the PC end, is this done in software or by the graphics card? Assuming the PC doesn't adjust the colour, is the PC (or any other source device equipped with a DVI output) meant to send a signal to the TV telling it to use the 709 colour space, or is the TV supposed to always use that if it thinks it's receiving HD (720p/1080i) material? If there is such a signal, is it sent by the software or hardware? If anyone can shed some light on these matters, it would be much appreciated. Doughboy Windows has been using a "What you see is what you get" system for some time. To facilitate this printer and monitors either use standard colour spaces and identify them via Plug and Play, or you download a file containing a unique colour space definition. So yes, a PC outputs different RGB values depending upon the colour space required by the monitor. If you have Powerstrip you can change the monitor colour space, and one of those is HDTV. So would you think, for example, that Windows knows that my Sony 34XBR800 CRT HDTV (my Nvidia graphics card recognises it as "Sony TV (Digital Display)" uses the 709 colour space and would adjust the RGB values it sends to the DVI port (which the TV is connected to) on this basis? What's confusing is the TV has a temporary Service Menu switch that allows me to toggle the colour space between 601 and 709 (at least I think that's what it's doing). Certainly the colours change in appearance consistent with this theory and this is what led me to believe that a source device could tell the display which colour space to use as neccessary. Or is it more likely that that the TV just uses these matrix's internally to translate SD broadcasts to the display's native 709 colour space. Doughboy |
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PC DVI to HDTV question
"Doughboy" wrote in message ... On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:16:43 -0000, "John Russell" wrote: "Doughboy" wrote in message . .. I'm trying to find out a bit about the 709 colour space that is used to display HD material. Does the PC adjust the colour to the 709 standard before it sends the data, or does it only convert it from 32bit to 24bit? If it's done at the PC end, is this done in software or by the graphics card? Assuming the PC doesn't adjust the colour, is the PC (or any other source device equipped with a DVI output) meant to send a signal to the TV telling it to use the 709 colour space, or is the TV supposed to always use that if it thinks it's receiving HD (720p/1080i) material? If there is such a signal, is it sent by the software or hardware? If anyone can shed some light on these matters, it would be much appreciated. Doughboy Windows has been using a "What you see is what you get" system for some time. To facilitate this printer and monitors either use standard colour spaces and identify them via Plug and Play, or you download a file containing a unique colour space definition. So yes, a PC outputs different RGB values depending upon the colour space required by the monitor. If you have Powerstrip you can change the monitor colour space, and one of those is HDTV. So would you think, for example, that Windows knows that my Sony 34XBR800 CRT HDTV (my Nvidia graphics card recognises it as "Sony TV (Digital Display)" uses the 709 colour space and would adjust the RGB values it sends to the DVI port (which the TV is connected to) on this basis? When connected using DVI to the TV check the Colour Management TAb in Display Properties. This will tell you what colour space profile is in use. Nvidia "may" break the windows rules and ignore the selected Monitor Profile if you select HDTV in the Nvidia setup, I don't know. SD material supplied to the TV can't change it's Colour Profile. It doesn't follow that even a HDTV set uses the HDTV colour profile at the RGB level. All signals may get converted to the sets own RGB Colour Profile. |
#7
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PC DVI to HDTV question
"John Russell" wrote in message ... "Doughboy" wrote in message ... On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:16:43 -0000, "John Russell" wrote: "Doughboy" wrote in message ... I'm trying to find out a bit about the 709 colour space that is used to display HD material. Does the PC adjust the colour to the 709 standard before it sends the data, or does it only convert it from 32bit to 24bit? If it's done at the PC end, is this done in software or by the graphics card? Assuming the PC doesn't adjust the colour, is the PC (or any other source device equipped with a DVI output) meant to send a signal to the TV telling it to use the 709 colour space, or is the TV supposed to always use that if it thinks it's receiving HD (720p/1080i) material? If there is such a signal, is it sent by the software or hardware? If anyone can shed some light on these matters, it would be much appreciated. Doughboy Windows has been using a "What you see is what you get" system for some time. To facilitate this printer and monitors either use standard colour spaces and identify them via Plug and Play, or you download a file containing a unique colour space definition. So yes, a PC outputs different RGB values depending upon the colour space required by the monitor. If you have Powerstrip you can change the monitor colour space, and one of those is HDTV. So would you think, for example, that Windows knows that my Sony 34XBR800 CRT HDTV (my Nvidia graphics card recognises it as "Sony TV (Digital Display)" uses the 709 colour space and would adjust the RGB values it sends to the DVI port (which the TV is connected to) on this basis? When connected using DVI to the TV check the Colour Management TAb in Display Properties. This will tell you what colour space profile is in use. Nvidia "may" break the windows rules and ignore the selected Monitor Profile if you select HDTV in the Nvidia setup, I don't know. SD material supplied to the TV can't change it's Colour Profile. It doesn't follow that even a HDTV set uses the HDTV colour profile at the RGB level. All signals may get converted to the sets own RGB Colour Profile. According to this site:- http://www.color.org/sRGB.html ....the SRGB IEC619666-2.1 profiles where designed to be complaint with 709. If they don't come up as Profiles in the Colur Management tab you can download them using the site linked. |
#8
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PC DVI to HDTV question
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 10:31:05 -0000, "John Russell"
wrote: When connected using DVI to the TV check the Colour Management TAb in Display Properties. This will tell you what colour space profile is in use. Windows will only let me look at these settings for the primary monitor. Nvidia "may" break the windows rules and ignore the selected Monitor Profile if you select HDTV in the Nvidia setup, I don't know. It seems that the 709 colour space is pretty close to the one used in PC's, so there probably isn't the need to use a Profile, although it's possible that one might be useful if one needed an exact match. Obviously, properly calibrating the monitor would be more important. SD material supplied to the TV can't change it's Colour Profile. It doesn't follow that even a HDTV set uses the HDTV colour profile at the RGB level. All signals may get converted to the sets own RGB Colour Profile. Granted, but I imagine HDTV's expect to receive a 709 standard signal. Doughboy |
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