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Need advice on box upgrade



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 04, 01:52 PM
ur_droll
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Default Need advice on box upgrade

Hi there all you tech heads.

I am after advice from "those in the know" about a box upgrade that I'm
considering.

Having being through this once before (and fluffing it with a 733 P3
just after P4 release) and missing any opportunity to make a meaningful
(cpu only) upgrade. I would like to spend as little as possible on my
initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.

I have a reasonable appreciation of the value of higher fsb, P4 hyper
threading and 64 bit 754 XP's, but don't have much of an idea as to
the comparative value of the 462 XP's 400fsb, particularly as relates
to P4 hyper threading and the likelihood of continuing production of
faster (compatible architecture) cpu's that might be supported by my
new m/b. i.e.... I understand the risk of architecture redundancy if
I get it wrong and am trying to weigh the risk against the savings in
cost for the three different options.

Search and cost comparisons of local supply options for m/bs that
support the potential advances of the three options (together with a
desire to get 'off board graphics') are limiting me to low speed cpu's
around 2000 - 2400 with lower fsb. This will be my most meaningful
upgrade (other than graphics, sound and ram), and I would like to be
in the hunt for a 3300+ + upgrade (if available).

I guess my question is simply..... are 462 XP's with dual channel cpu's
competitive enough (in your collective opinions) with P4 hyperthreading,
.....to minimise the risk of premature redundancy.

Please advise.


Colin


  #2  
Old June 8th 04, 02:01 PM
ur_droll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ur_droll" wrote in message
...
: Hi there all you tech heads.
:
: I am after advice from "those in the know" about a box upgrade that I'm
: considering.
:
: Having being through this once before (and fluffing it with a 733 P3
: just after P4 release) and missing any opportunity to make a meaningful
: (cpu only) upgrade. I would like to spend as little as possible on my
: initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.
:
: I have a reasonable appreciation of the value of higher fsb, P4 hyper
: threading and 64 bit 754 XP's, but don't have much of an idea as to
: the comparative value of the 462 XP's 400fsb, particularly as relates
: to P4 hyper threading and the likelihood of continuing production of
: faster (compatible architecture) cpu's that might be supported by my
: new m/b. i.e.... I understand the risk of architecture redundancy if
: I get it wrong and am trying to weigh the risk against the savings in
: cost for the three different options.
:
: Search and cost comparisons of local supply options for m/bs that
: support the potential advances of the three options (together with a
: desire to get 'off board graphics') are limiting me to low speed cpu's
: around 2000 - 2400 with lower fsb. This will be my most meaningful
: upgrade (other than graphics, sound and ram), and I would like to be
: in the hunt for a 3300+ + upgrade (if available).
:
: I guess my question is simply..... are 462 XP's with dual channel cpu's
: competitive enough (in your collective opinions) with P4 hyperthreading,
: ....to minimise the risk of premature redundancy.

Sorry.... I should have clarified... I "NEED" to spend as little as
possible
on my initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.

and the considered specs are as follows;

Gigabyte GA-7N400-L nForce Chipset 400 FSB Dual channel
Triplex 128Mb DDR GeForceFX 5200 8X w/TV-Out & DVI
Samsung 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80Gb Serial ATA150 7200rpm 8MB Cache

Topped off with the el cheapo AMD Athlon XP1600+ Socket 462....
Which will get swapped out in about 6 to 12 months (hopefully to a
nice big fat XP4000+ socket 462.


I'll also add a Sound Blaster Audigy-2 Sound Card and possibly
upgrade the graphics card.


:
: Please advise.
:
:
: Colin
:
:


  #3  
Old June 8th 04, 03:34 PM
Michael Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ur_droll wrote:
[...]
Sorry.... I should have clarified... I "NEED" to spend as little as
possible
on my initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.

and the considered specs are as follows;

Gigabyte GA-7N400-L nForce Chipset 400 FSB Dual channel
Triplex 128Mb DDR GeForceFX 5200 8X w/TV-Out & DVI
Samsung 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80Gb Serial ATA150 7200rpm 8MB Cache

Topped off with the el cheapo AMD Athlon XP1600+ Socket 462....
Which will get swapped out in about 6 to 12 months (hopefully to a
nice big fat XP4000+ socket 462.


Socket A is effectively dead ... there's no more roadmapped CPUs above the
XP3200, so I wouldn't be counting on being able to upgrade the CPU (except
to a mobile then overclocking it ). Socket 754 is looking like a bad
investment at the moment (high prices now then being relegated to "budget"
ie: low performance in 2005). Socket 939 is looking even worse givin the
current pricing on the things. Out of the lot, socket 478 (P4) is looking
about the best future-wise, but then you're banking on Intel getting
Prescott sorted out, plus you may need a new motherboard for the 266MHz FSB
CPUs that are going to be coming out later.

Given that you're got very limited upgradablilty no matter where you go, I'd
say go for what you've got above with the intention of getting a mobile
later on. The only thing to watch out for is if AMD start locking the
mobiles, which will cramp your style a bit on the nVidia chipsets (no
PowerNow support so you're stuck with only the default multiplier).

[...]

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add [email protected] to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open


  #4  
Old June 8th 04, 06:13 PM
Steve Wolfe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would like to spend as little as possible on my
initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.


If you were to go with an Athlon XP-M 2500+, you could pick up a
Codegen case, an Abit NForce 2 motherboard, the chip, and some memory for
just a touch over $300, leaving the hard drive of your choice for you to
add in. And with the unlocked multiplier of the XP-M, you can turn the
FSB up to 400 easily. Nearly all of them will hit XP 3200+ speeds, with
good cooling, many will go somewhat higher.

No, you probably won't be able to upgrade the CPU - but how often do you
upgrade the CPU without the motherboard? As far as a low-cost setup goes,
that rig will give you a *LOT* for your money. You may not have the
bragging rights, but for what you pay, you'll get a VERY good performer.

steve


  #5  
Old June 8th 04, 07:29 PM
ur_droll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Wolfe" wrote in message
...
: I would like to spend as little as possible on my
: initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.
:
: If you were to go with an Athlon XP-M 2500+, you could pick up a
: Codegen case, an Abit NForce 2 motherboard, the chip, and some memory for
: just a touch over $300, leaving the hard drive of your choice for you to
: add in. And with the unlocked multiplier of the XP-M, you can turn the
: FSB up to 400 easily. Nearly all of them will hit XP 3200+ speeds, with
: good cooling, many will go somewhat higher.
:
: No, you probably won't be able to upgrade the CPU - but how often do you
: upgrade the CPU without the motherboard? As far as a low-cost setup goes,
: that rig will give you a *LOT* for your money. You may not have the
: bragging rights, but for what you pay, you'll get a VERY good performer.
:
: steve


Hi Steve,

The specs I listed will cost me US $450.00. With an XP-M-2400 the
entry point cost goes up by $150 or 33%. (similar to P4 rig)

Thank you for your feed back


  #6  
Old June 8th 04, 07:32 PM
ur_droll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Michael Brown" wrote in message
...
: ur_droll wrote:
: [...]
: Sorry.... I should have clarified... I "NEED" to spend as little as
: possible
: on my initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.
:
: and the considered specs are as follows;
:
: Gigabyte GA-7N400-L nForce Chipset 400 FSB Dual channel
: Triplex 128Mb DDR GeForceFX 5200 8X w/TV-Out & DVI
: Samsung 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM
: Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80Gb Serial ATA150 7200rpm 8MB Cache
:
: Topped off with the el cheapo AMD Athlon XP1600+ Socket 462....
: Which will get swapped out in about 6 to 12 months (hopefully to a
: nice big fat XP4000+ socket 462.
:
: Socket A is effectively dead ... there's no more roadmapped CPUs above the
: XP3200, so I wouldn't be counting on being able to upgrade the CPU (except
: to a mobile then overclocking it ). Socket 754 is looking like a bad
: investment at the moment (high prices now then being relegated to "budget"
: ie: low performance in 2005). Socket 939 is looking even worse givin the
: current pricing on the things. Out of the lot, socket 478 (P4) is looking
: about the best future-wise, but then you're banking on Intel getting
: Prescott sorted out, plus you may need a new motherboard for the 266MHz
FSB
: CPUs that are going to be coming out later.
:
: Given that you're got very limited upgradablilty no matter where you go,
I'd
: say go for what you've got above with the intention of getting a mobile
: later on. The only thing to watch out for is if AMD start locking the
: mobiles, which will cramp your style a bit on the nVidia chipsets (no
: PowerNow support so you're stuck with only the default multiplier).


Thanks Michael


  #7  
Old June 8th 04, 10:45 PM
Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You might want to check out this article over at tomshardware.com
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/index.html
As i understand it the 64bit athlons are better in terms of gaming but the
P4EE has the advantage when it comes to video editing software.

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 00:52:44 +1200, "ur_droll" wrote:

:Hi there all you tech heads.
:
:I am after advice from "those in the know" about a box upgrade that I'm
:considering.
:
:Having being through this once before (and fluffing it with a 733 P3
:just after P4 release) and missing any opportunity to make a meaningful
:(cpu only) upgrade. I would like to spend as little as possible on my
:initial upgrade of Case, m/b, cpu (low budget), 512mb ddr & hdd.
:
:I have a reasonable appreciation of the value of higher fsb, P4 hyper
:threading and 64 bit 754 XP's, but don't have much of an idea as to
:the comparative value of the 462 XP's 400fsb, particularly as relates
:to P4 hyper threading and the likelihood of continuing production of
:faster (compatible architecture) cpu's that might be supported by my
:new m/b. i.e.... I understand the risk of architecture redundancy if
:I get it wrong and am trying to weigh the risk against the savings in
:cost for the three different options.
:
:Search and cost comparisons of local supply options for m/bs that
:support the potential advances of the three options (together with a
:desire to get 'off board graphics') are limiting me to low speed cpu's
:around 2000 - 2400 with lower fsb. This will be my most meaningful
:upgrade (other than graphics, sound and ram), and I would like to be
:in the hunt for a 3300+ + upgrade (if available).
:
:I guess my question is simply..... are 462 XP's with dual channel cpu's
:competitive enough (in your collective opinions) with P4 hyperthreading,
:....to minimise the risk of premature redundancy.
:
:Please advise.
:
:
:Colin
:


-----
Lee.
  #8  
Old June 9th 04, 03:14 AM
Fishface
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ur_droll wrote:

With an XP-M-2400 the entry point cost goes up by $150
or 33%. (similar to P4 rig)


That's a very expensive heatsink you'd be putting on that $77
processor. Check out the Shuttle AN35N and save a little on
a very similar board. Maybe you should itemize your $450
shopping list and people could make suggestions about specific
changes.


  #9  
Old June 9th 04, 04:58 AM
Michael Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Fishface" ? wrote in message
...
ur_droll wrote:

With an XP-M-2400 the entry point cost goes up by $150
or 33%. (similar to P4 rig)


That's a very expensive heatsink you'd be putting on that $77
processor.


He has to get it shipped from the US to New Zealand, so $US50 shipping would
not be unheard of. Plus, there's very few online places that sell outside
the US, so you usually pay a premium at those that do.

[...]

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add [email protected] to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open


  #10  
Old June 9th 04, 09:05 AM
ur_droll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Michael Brown" wrote in message
...
: "Fishface" ? wrote in message
: ...
: ur_droll wrote:
:
: With an XP-M-2400 the entry point cost goes up by $150
: or 33%. (similar to P4 rig)
:
: That's a very expensive heatsink you'd be putting on that $77
: processor.
:
: He has to get it shipped from the US to New Zealand, so $US50 shipping
would
: not be unheard of. Plus, there's very few online places that sell outside
: the US, so you usually pay a premium at those that do.
:
: [...]


Correctomundo.... I don't use credit cards and have heard too many
stories of disappointments & rip offs. I'd prefer to buy from someone
whom I can reach out and touch... (in the event that I need to)

But I have listed the components and costs in US $.

-Gigabyte GA-7N400-L nForce Chipset 400MHz FSB Dual Channel Mainboard $93.75
-Transcend Samsung DDR400 512MB Memory $147.96
-Triplex 128MB DDR GeForce FX5200 8X w/TV-Out & DVI $73.98
-Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80GB Serial ATA150 7200RPM 8MB Cache $98.12

Totals US $413.81 (without cpu)

-XP1600 ($54.10)................. $467.91 (with cpu)
-XP3200 ($259.32)

Prices for other cpu's are as follows;

AMD Athlon MP 2400+ Socket A CPU $177.82 (extra $123.72) 26.4%


AMD Athlon MP 2800+ 2.26GHz 266MHz FSB 512KB Cache Socket A $264.23
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Socket 754 CPU $357.12
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ Socket 754 CPU $265.23
Pentium 4 478 Pin 2.0GHz 400 FSB 512KB Cache 2.0GHz Northwood $184.56
Pentium 4 3.2GHz @800FSB with Hyper Threading Technology $321.71


OPTIONAL EXTRAS
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Sound Card $117.75
DVD/CD Drive DVD +/- RW 8X LiteOn LDW-812S Dual Format $132.46

I hope that was of some interest.

So.... back to the original question..... is the performance of dual channel
XP's
good enough (relative to the P4 HT) for AMD to continue further development?



 




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