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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed
to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? Thanks in advance... |
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Dennis Coggia wrote in
. 3.30: I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? Thanks in advance... Few xtra details, when I create a custom setting it accepts the 240 setting, but still shows refresh rate a 60. Also, under "monitor" in windows display properties, it identifies a generic pnp display, nvidia software sees it as a SONY TV |
#3
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Dennis Coggia wrote:
I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? Thanks in advance... Cable up the TV set to the video card, and query the display with this. http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm The info you get back with that (the "real time" entry), will tell you the specs the display will be enforcing. There is no particular reason, that "forcing" from the video card, past those specs, will give anything other than "Out Of Range" on the OSD (On Screen Display). You may get a different answer via VGA, than HDMI, so test both of them. If I use the Nvidia control panel here, and use the function that allows Custom Resolutions to be set, if I set H and V to 320 x 240, the control panel claims I can use up to 500Hz as a refresh rate. But if I actually pressed the "Test" button, and drove that signal to my monitor, my monitor would just laugh. I've been a hair over the max before, and the "Out Of Range" feature is quite accurate. It'll "black screen" on me, if it is even off a little bit. So you'll get your answer pretty quickly. Paul |
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
"Dennis Coggia" wrote in message
. 3.30... I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? TVs only accept 60HZ input. You need a 3D LCD monitor to get 120HZ input. |
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
"Jim" wrote in
: "Dennis Coggia" wrote in message . 3.30... I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? TVs only accept 60HZ input. You need a 3D LCD monitor to get 120HZ input. Hey thanks paul, I'm trying that now. The TV is a Sony Bravia KDL 46NX800 and supports 240hz. Just got this baby last Sunday |
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Dennis Coggia wrote in
. 3.30: "Jim" wrote in : "Dennis Coggia" wrote in message . 3.30... I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? TVs only accept 60HZ input. You need a 3D LCD monitor to get 120HZ input. Hey thanks paul, I'm trying that now. The TV is a Sony Bravia KDL 46NX800 and supports 240hz. Just got this baby last Sunday No luck, I created an .inf file with the Entech software. The funny thing is as I mentioned, when I test the 240 mode after creating a custom resolution, i get the ok. A window pops up and confirms that the new resolution and refresh rate has been tested and applied. Timing characteristics Horizontal scan range.... 15-70kHz Vertical scan range...... 58-62Hz Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz CVT standard............. Not supported GTF standard............. Not supported Additional descriptors... None Preferred timing......... Yes Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9) Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9) Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync |
#7
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Dennis Coggia wrote:
"Jim" wrote in : "Dennis Coggia" wrote in message . 3.30... I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? TVs only accept 60HZ input. You need a 3D LCD monitor to get 120HZ input. Hey thanks paul, I'm trying that now. The TV is a Sony Bravia KDL 46NX800 and supports 240hz. Just got this baby last Sunday Hmmm. The manual isn't much help. The Sony site claimed the manual had specs for the inputs, and it doesn't. I finally found a manual here. http://content.abt.com/documents/244...800_manual.pdf HDMI IN 1/2/3/4 HDMI: Video: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 1080/24p Audio: Two channel linear PCM 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz, 16, 20 and 24 bits, Dolby Digital AUDIO (HDMI IN 1) PC IN D-sub 15-pin, analog RGB There are a couple things missing there. The HDMI should be specified at some frame rate. Only the 1080/24p is a complete example. The statement of 1080p, likely implies 1080p50/1080p60/1080p59.97 and so on. But other things are possible, and I suppose they might have stated them, if they were a "feature". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p "HD ready 1080p logo program by DIGITALEUROPE requires that certified TV sets support 1080p24, 1080p50, and 1080p60 formats, and feature a native resolution of at least 1920×1080 pixels, among other requirements." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi "The frame rate can be either implied by the context or specified after the letter 'p', such as 1080p30, meaning 30 progressive frames per second." The VGA input is completely unspecified. Even cheesy sets come with a spec, so why are they hiding it ? If the native resolution of the set was 1920x1080, we'd at least expect to see that at 60Hz. But whether the thing is multi-sync, and capable of everything from 640x480 up to 1920x1080, only a full spec would have told us. (The Moninfo program should tell you.) If you look in the HDMI article, capabilities go by spec revision. They mention HDMI 1.4a for example: "HDMI 1.4 supports several stereoscopic 3D formats including field alternative (interlaced), frame packing (a full resolution top-bottom format), line alternative full, side-by-side half, side-by-side full, 2D + depth, and 2D + depth + graphics + graphics depth (WOWvx), with additional top/bottom formats added in version 1.4a ." And HDMI has bandwidth limitations. Even with reduced blanking, I doubt the cable could handle 1080p240. It might even have trouble with p120. And an example of how 3D TV is transmitted, is described here. So far, none of those examples implies direct usage of high frame rates. They instead, pack things into higher resolution "blobs", to be post-processed by the TV. This still is hard on the cabling, because a lot more bits are being sent. http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/ Perhaps the VGA input is capable of "tricks", but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm hoping the Moninfo application, tested on both HDMI and VGA, will tell you what the TV is capable of. As far as "breaking into the set and accessing the 240Hz", that isn't going to happen either. To prevent piracy, the digital streams are protected by encryption (HDCP), and such protections will continue inside the set. Perhaps there is a place, somewhere near the panel driver chip, to get at an unencrypted version. Like, tapping all the horizontal and vertical pixel drivers and recording the signals on those. But finding a handy "auxiliary input" lying unused inside the set, is highly unlikely. For your set, the implication is the "MotionFlow" stage, is a feature internal to the set, and not accessible externally. It's an upsampling option, based on lower rate signals as inputs. Paul |
#8
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Dennis Coggia wrote:
Dennis Coggia wrote in . 3.30: "Jim" wrote in : "Dennis Coggia" wrote in message . 3.30... I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? TVs only accept 60HZ input. You need a 3D LCD monitor to get 120HZ input. Hey thanks paul, I'm trying that now. The TV is a Sony Bravia KDL 46NX800 and supports 240hz. Just got this baby last Sunday No luck, I created an .inf file with the Entech software. The funny thing is as I mentioned, when I test the 240 mode after creating a custom resolution, i get the ok. A window pops up and confirms that the new resolution and refresh rate has been tested and applied. Timing characteristics Horizontal scan range.... 15-70kHz Vertical scan range...... 58-62Hz Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz CVT standard............. Not supported GTF standard............. Not supported Additional descriptors... None Preferred timing......... Yes Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9) Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9) Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync OK, that implies you tested via HDMI (or used a DVI to HDMI cable, coming from the computer). The two modelines, look to me to be 1080p60 and 720p60. The clock on the first one is 148MHz, and HDMI goes up to 340MHz or so, depending on revision (the higher you push the refresh, the higher that clock rate goes). On DVI, the clock goes to 165MHz. I would expect a DVI to HDMI adapter cable, to be limited to the DVI limits on clock (165MHz). With the right HDMI standards on both ends, you can go to 340MHz. Which means, if the monitor would allow it, you could crank the refresh by 340/148.5 * 60Hz = 137Hz. If only it was that simple. The HDMI interface, doesn't have enough bandwidth to run 1080p240. You'd need to drop the dimensions of the image, like down to 1024x768, to be able to run the refresh faster. And the set may not like that, either. All scaler chips, have some kinds of limits on what they'll support. (The processor inside the TV, has to program the chips for the appropriate mode(s), when a new signal is detected.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi HDMI version 1.0–1.2a 1.3 1.4 Clock rate (MHz) 165 340 340 I recommend you test via VGA 15 pin connector, as there is less reason to limit inputs to p60. You might get 75Hz over VGA. The LCD TV is likely to enforce the limits stated in the EDID tables, so if you jam 240Hz into it, it should say "Out Of Range". I'd try going just a little above 60Hz for starters, like perhaps trying 72Hz or 75Hz, and see if you make any progress. Some LCD panels will handle 72Hz without a problem. And 75Hz, might be the next value up from 60Hz, on VGA, if you test it. Try just a little change to start, to see if your crafting of custom settings, really works. Paul |
#9
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Paul wrote in
: Dennis Coggia wrote: "Jim" wrote in : "Dennis Coggia" wrote in message . 3.30... I have a brand new 250 hz lcd TV, sony nx800 line. The GTS 250 is suppossed to support 250hz but I'm not having any luck. Do I have to "force" it with software? TVs only accept 60HZ input. You need a 3D LCD monitor to get 120HZ input. Hey thanks paul, I'm trying that now. The TV is a Sony Bravia KDL 46NX800 and supports 240hz. Just got this baby last Sunday Hmmm. The manual isn't much help. The Sony site claimed the manual had specs for the inputs, and it doesn't. I finally found a manual here. http://content.abt.com/documents/244...800_manual.pdf HDMI IN 1/2/3/4 HDMI: Video: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 1080/24p Audio: Two channel linear PCM 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz, 16, 20 and 24 bits, Dolby Digital AUDIO (HDMI IN 1) PC IN D-sub 15-pin, analog RGB There are a couple things missing there. The HDMI should be specified at some frame rate. Only the 1080/24p is a complete example. The statement of 1080p, likely implies 1080p50/1080p60/1080p59.97 and so on. But other things are possible, and I suppose they might have stated them, if they were a "feature". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p "HD ready 1080p logo program by DIGITALEUROPE requires that certified TV sets support 1080p24, 1080p50, and 1080p60 formats, and feature a native resolution of at least 1920×1080 pixels, among other requirements." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi "The frame rate can be either implied by the context or specified after the letter 'p', such as 1080p30, meaning 30 progressive frames per second." The VGA input is completely unspecified. Even cheesy sets come with a spec, so why are they hiding it ? If the native resolution of the set was 1920x1080, we'd at least expect to see that at 60Hz. But whether the thing is multi-sync, and capable of everything from 640x480 up to 1920x1080, only a full spec would have told us. (The Moninfo program should tell you.) If you look in the HDMI article, capabilities go by spec revision. They mention HDMI 1.4a for example: "HDMI 1.4 supports several stereoscopic 3D formats including field alternative (interlaced), frame packing (a full resolution top-bottom format), line alternative full, side-by-side half, side-by-side full, 2D + depth, and 2D + depth + graphics + graphics depth (WOWvx), with additional top/bottom formats added in version 1.4a ." And HDMI has bandwidth limitations. Even with reduced blanking, I doubt the cable could handle 1080p240. It might even have trouble with p120. And an example of how 3D TV is transmitted, is described here. So far, none of those examples implies direct usage of high frame rates. They instead, pack things into higher resolution "blobs", to be post-processed by the TV. This still is hard on the cabling, because a lot more bits are being sent. http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/ Perhaps the VGA input is capable of "tricks", but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm hoping the Moninfo application, tested on both HDMI and VGA, will tell you what the TV is capable of. As far as "breaking into the set and accessing the 240Hz", that isn't going to happen either. To prevent piracy, the digital streams are protected by encryption (HDCP), and such protections will continue inside the set. Perhaps there is a place, somewhere near the panel driver chip, to get at an unencrypted version. Like, tapping all the horizontal and vertical pixel drivers and recording the signals on those. But finding a handy "auxiliary input" lying unused inside the set, is highly unlikely. For your set, the implication is the "MotionFlow" stage, is a feature internal to the set, and not accessible externally. It's an upsampling option, based on lower rate signals as inputs. Paul Hey Man thanks for all your time, this was the best set of specs that i found, do't know if you ran across it: ('http://www.docs.sony.com/reflib/docget.asp?manualid=1073101 &template_id=1®ion_id=1&DL=',600,560,10,10,'Man uals') It's funny that you mentioned the cable itself i was wondering about that. It's not a super cheapo one but it's definately not anywhere near the expense of others that I've seen. I work alot with analog signal cables so I certainly know the value of decent gear. Until recently I thought the digital transmissions were "less corruptable" until I fought with a flaky fiber optic connector. What do you think? stranger things happen. It wouldn't be a tragedy if I can't make this happen. I did spend a couple hundred bucks to get the 240hz version. This computer is primarily used to stream movies from my drives and so far i haven't noticed any artifacts even with the more agressive action scenes. I do wonder what the purpose of the 240 hz capabilities of the card is. Maybe I'll call the manufacture and seewhat they say |
#10
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Need help setting refresh rate on 250 GTS
Dennis Coggia wrote:
Hey Man thanks for all your time, this was the best set of specs that i found, do't know if you ran across it: ('http://www.docs.sony.com/reflib/docget.asp?manualid=1073101 &template_id=1®ion_id=1&DL=',600,560,10,10,'Man uals') It's funny that you mentioned the cable itself i was wondering about that. It's not a super cheapo one but it's definately not anywhere near the expense of others that I've seen. I work alot with analog signal cables so I certainly know the value of decent gear. Until recently I thought the digital transmissions were "less corruptable" until I fought with a flaky fiber optic connector. What do you think? stranger things happen. It wouldn't be a tragedy if I can't make this happen. I did spend a couple hundred bucks to get the 240hz version. This computer is primarily used to stream movies from my drives and so far i haven't noticed any artifacts even with the more agressive action scenes. I do wonder what the purpose of the 240 hz capabilities of the card is. Maybe I'll call the manufacture and seewhat they say From that datasheet: "Video Signal: 1080/60p (HDMI / COMPONENT), 1080/60i, 1080/24p (HDMI ONLY), 720/60p, 480/60p, 480/60i" Without trying to decode that, it still looks like HDMI at least, is 60p max (60Hz, Progressive). The component YPbPr supports some of the same ones. No spec for VGA (PC input). Of any of them, the VGA is the one most likely to do something slightly above 60Hz. That's the one I'd be testing with the Moninfo program. In terms of bandwidth, I was quoting the HDMI specs, as to what operations they support. HDMI 1.4 goes up to 340MHz clock. Operation faster than that, would require the transmitting end to support a higher clock. If the loss (attenuation) or ISI (intersymbol interference) causes eye closure on the cable, then longer cables or higher rate attempts, result in "digital snow", and if the error rate is severe enough, loss of sync. Then the screen goes blank. But for slightly crappy cables, you might notice a bit of colored sparkles on the screen, as an indication you're on the edge. There is some amount of variation in cables, and it's probably cheaper to just put the computer next to the TV, than to spend a fortune on fancy cabling. If you drop the resolutioh (H x V) or reduce the refresh rate, the cable clock rate drops, and the snow disappears. (An eye diagram for HDMI, on a digital scope. As long as the orange and yellow, doesn't touch the blue, the thing passes.) http://conformity.com/artman/uploads...4_fig4_low.jpg When I refer to 340MHz clock, that makes the cable and scheme sound pretty wimpy. But in fact, for each clock cycle, HDMI sends 10 bits of data serially. So 340 * 10 = 3400MHz or 3.4GHz. There is a diff pair for each color gun (so total bandwidth is 3x that number). When received, the 10 bits on the line, is decoded to 8 bits of user data. Plus functions such as DC balance. I think DisplayPort may do a bit better than that, as it uses a more efficient coding scheme. The nice thing about the HDMI, is the coding format would be ready to send across fiber optics (8B/10B has been used for some years, for lower rate fiber). ******* You know, your experience with your LCD TV, is something like my experience with a web cam I bought last year. It advertised 1280x1024 resolution and 30FPS capture rate. What I learned later, is the features were "either/or". I could have 640x480 @ 30FPS or 1280x1024 @ 5FPS. The Windows interface for the camera, wouldn't lay out those facts in black and white. When I used some Linux software, that software put all the relevant info into one table, and that's when I realized what a crock the statements on the back of the box were. The practice continues to this day - high res web cams, have useless FPS rates for capture at their full resolution. Except when you're using them as a still camera, then the extra pixels are worth something to you. And even so, with long exposure times, it's easy to take blurry pictures. Paul |
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