A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » Homebuilt PC's
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Newbie asking questions!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 10th 03, 12:58 PM
Simon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie asking questions!

I am in the process of building my first two machines at the same time. I am
planning to build afresh but reuse an two old cases and PSU's. I have found
that my ATX AOpen AMD motherboards I purcahsed (to go with the AMD 2500 and
2600 processors I got) dont physically fit the cases, and one of the PSU's
doesnt fit into the motherbaord connector either (wrong connector at the end)
Am I doing something wrong as the cases I am reusing are not that old (around
late 1999) didnt think building of motherbaords would change so much in that
time. And do I just need an adapter for the PSU or is it a bin job.

By the way can someone clear this up.....why are some PSU's a different wattage
to others. I want to run the usual plus two hard drives and a DVD ROM I wouldnt
need an uprated PSU for this surely. Also with themral compuind do you only get
enough appliacation in the syringes for one CPU/Heatsink or will I be able to
squeeze two out of it.

Many Thanks for everyones help
  #2  
Old December 10th 03, 02:53 PM
Mitchua
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Simon" wrote in message
...
I am in the process of building my first two machines at the same time. I

am
planning to build afresh but reuse an two old cases and PSU's.


Good plan.

I have found
that my ATX AOpen AMD motherboards I purcahsed (to go with the AMD 2500

and
2600 processors I got) dont physically fit the cases, and one of the PSU's
doesnt fit into the motherbaord connector either (wrong connector at the

end)
Am I doing something wrong as the cases I am reusing are not that old

(around
late 1999) didnt think building of motherbaords would change so much in

that
time. And do I just need an adapter for the PSU or is it a bin job.


Your old PSU is probably AT instead of the new ATX standard. You can buy a
special wire that will adapt it (e.g.
http://www.trianglecables.com/attoatxpowco.html) but you'll probably
want/need a bigger PSU for the AMD chips.

As for the cases, they may be propriatary but chances are they are ATX and
the motherboard should fit. Does everything match up at the back of the
case?


By the way can someone clear this up.....why are some PSU's a different

wattage
to others. I want to run the usual plus two hard drives and a DVD ROM I

wouldnt
need an uprated PSU for this surely.


More stuff = more power. AMD chips need more power than the old Celerons
and things like hard drives eat up the juice. I'd recommend making sure you
have 300+W or else you could get freezing under games when everything is
sucking power at once.

Also with themral compuind do you only get
enough appliacation in the syringes for one CPU/Heatsink or will I be able

to
squeeze two out of it.


You only need a VERY small amount of compound on the CPU die. Just make
sure it's very lightly coated (not white). I've never finished off a tube
of compound after applying it to about 5 CPUs.


Many Thanks for everyones help


No prob :-)

--Mitchua


  #3  
Old December 10th 03, 04:13 PM
Robert B. Clark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 10 Dec 2003 12:58:11 GMT, mmyy (Simon) wrote:

I am in the process of building my first two machines at the same time. I am
planning to build afresh but reuse an two old cases and PSU's. I have found
that my ATX AOpen AMD motherboards I purcahsed (to go with the AMD 2500 and
2600 processors I got) dont physically fit the cases, and one of the PSU's
doesnt fit into the motherbaord connector either (wrong connector at the end)
Am I doing something wrong as the cases I am reusing are not that old (around
late 1999) didnt think building of motherbaords would change so much in that
time. And do I just need an adapter for the PSU or is it a bin job.


You need an ATX case and PSU.

You don't say what your old computers were, but in 1999 AT cases and power
supplies were still fairly common.

By the way can someone clear this up.....why are some PSU's a different wattage
to others. I want to run the usual plus two hard drives and a DVD ROM I wouldnt
need an uprated PSU for this surely. Also with themral compuind do you only get


Besides total wattage, you need to be concerned with the capacity of the
individual rails. You'll likely be most concerned with the size of the
+12V and +5V rails.

See
http://www.firingsquad.com/guides/power_supply/ for more information.

I doubt your total wattage will exceed 300W; just make sure you've adequate
+12V and +5V supplies.

enough appliacation in the syringes for one CPU/Heatsink or will I be able to
squeeze two out of it.


A typical 3.5g tube of thermal compound should be enough for at least a few
dozen applications. You only need about as much as a half-grain of rice
per application.

--
Robert B. Clark (email ROT13'ed)
Visit ClarkWehyr Enterprises On-Line at http://www.3clarks.com/ClarkWehyr/
  #4  
Old December 10th 03, 09:29 PM
jeffc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Simon" wrote in message
...
I am in the process of building my first two machines at the same time. I

am
planning to build afresh but reuse an two old cases and PSU's. I have

found
that my ATX AOpen AMD motherboards I purcahsed (to go with the AMD 2500

and
2600 processors I got) dont physically fit the cases, and one of the PSU's
doesnt fit into the motherbaord connector either (wrong connector at the

end)
Am I doing something wrong as the cases I am reusing are not that old

(around
late 1999) didnt think building of motherbaords would change so much in

that
time. And do I just need an adapter for the PSU or is it a bin job.

By the way can someone clear this up.....why are some PSU's a different

wattage
to others. I want to run the usual plus two hard drives and a DVD ROM I

wouldnt
need an uprated PSU for this surely.


Newer CPUs and video cards definitely do have higher power requirements.
When you combine that with the fact that many machines use pretty
underpowered power supplies, not really meant for upgrading but for doing
the minimum required in the base configuration as sold, it often is true
you'll need a bigger power supply. Search the web for power supplies and
how to determine power requirements. I'd say you probably, if not surely,
need a new power supply. (the connector alone tells you it won't work.)

Also with themral compuind do you only get
enough appliacation in the syringes for one CPU/Heatsink or will I be able

to
squeeze two out of it.


You can "squeeze" 2 out of it, literally. You don't need much at all, if
it's applied evenly.


  #5  
Old December 11th 03, 01:10 AM
Sidmon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What sort of wattage should I be looking for. And I'm sure one of the cases (a
'99 Tiny case) is an ATX type because the PSU is ATX. Why then doesnt it fit a
full size ATX motherboard in when the Tiny case itself seems normal sized middi
tower??!!!

I Must be getting old, not understanding why this new technology doesnt fit!
  #6  
Old December 11th 03, 03:14 PM
Robert B. Clark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 11 Dec 2003 01:10:23 GMT, onojunk (Sidmon) wrote:

What sort of wattage should I be looking for. And I'm sure one of the cases (a


See my previous post in this thread:


'99 Tiny case) is an ATX type because the PSU is ATX. Why then doesnt it fit a
full size ATX motherboard in when the Tiny case itself seems normal sized middi
tower??!!!


What do you mean when you say, "it doesn't fit"? Is the board too large to
fit inside the case, do the mounting holes not line up, or do the I/O
connectors on the motherboard not line up with the cutouts on the back of
the case?

If the latter, do you have the correct I/O shield installed on the back of
the case? Your motherboard may have come with an I/O shield. If so,
replace the I/O shield on the case. The I/O shield just pops out with
moderate force.

Are you *sure* your case has a full-size ATX form factor? A quick Google
on "tiny atx" indicates that your chassis may in fact be micro-ATX:

http://www.directron.com/a102b.html
http://www.thermalgear.com/encsw2frusat.html

If your case is similar to any of these, then a full-size ATX board will
not fit.

2600 processors I got) dont physically fit the cases, and one of the PSU's
doesnt fit into the motherbaord connector either (wrong connector at the end)


As for the motherboard power connector, this is a 20-pin socket arranged in
two rows of ten each. The power supply power connector is keyed to fit
only one way, and a latch will engage when the connector is fully inserted.

If you're still having trouble, please tell us the make and model of your
motherboards AND cases, and tell us which motherboard you're trying to
install in which chassis.

--
Robert B. Clark (email ROT13'ed)
Visit ClarkWehyr Enterprises On-Line at http://www.3clarks.com/ClarkWehyr/
  #7  
Old December 11th 03, 03:15 PM
jeffc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Sidmon" wrote in message
...
What sort of wattage should I be looking for. And I'm sure one of the

cases (a
'99 Tiny case) is an ATX type because the PSU is ATX. Why then doesnt it

fit a
full size ATX motherboard in when the Tiny case itself seems normal sized

middi
tower??!!!

I Must be getting old, not understanding why this new technology doesnt

fit!

Do some web searches - you'll have to read up on the standards. You can
also search for a calculator to figure your wattage needs. But if you don't
want to do that, just buy a quality 350-400 watt power supply and you'll be
OK. You might be able to save $10-20, but then you'll never be sure if you
bought a good brand or enough power until it's too late.


  #8  
Old December 11th 03, 10:45 PM
Overlord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The old AT motherboards generally had mouse/keyboard connectors on the back edge
of the motherboard. The vast majority of cases they went into had one gigantic steel
plate on the back with slots for add on boards and holes for the M/KB connectors.
The AT power supplies had the old 2 connectors of inline pins that went to the MB.

The newer ATX motherboards have all kinds of ports mounted on the back edge of the board.
LPT, Com, USB, NIC.... in technical terms, a ****load. They don't fit in strictly AT cases at all.
However, generally buying a new motherboard you get an I/O shield that fits around the
ports/connectors on the back of the MB. These are long rectangles designed to fit in a
knockout in the back of the case. If you don't have a knockout in the back of the case, and
you don't want to do all kinds of neat wiring tricks, you have an AT case.

As for your case.... There are different flavors of ATX motherboards. Some are pretty small
on purpose for those who want to build a small system or put a motherboard in a toaster or
a cereal boxG. The same goes for the cases they go into. Your full size(sic) motherboard
ain't a gonna go in that little micro case even if it is a flavor of ATX.

During the transition from AT to ATX motherboard/PS, there were some boards that had
power connectors for Both types of PS connection on them. Having an ATX power supply
in the case is no guarantee that it's an ATX case.

As for PS wattage, get at least a good quality 300watt PS. AMD's site has, or used to have
specs and requirements for how much amperage you need from the PS on each bus;
12volt, 5volt, and 3.3volt. This does not necessarily mean it is enough to run a handful of
hard drives and high current video card.

When I went from an AMD 450 with 8 hard drives, floppy, CD roms to a 1gig Athlon,
my old 220watt PS wouldn't fill the bill. Even removing all but a single drive wouldn't
Post the system. The PS simply wouldn't give the amperage that the Athlon needed.
That was a damn good PC Power & Cooling PS with about 9000 Molex connectors on it.
I sorely missed that old PS....

Perhaps you can see that, all things being equal, my system with 1 15000rpm drive and
7 10000rpm drives and a higher end video card is going to need more wattage.
I understand the CDRWs pull some good wattage too. Not sure just what effect your DVD
will have on the system requirements.

For thermal compound, you're not icing a cake!
At a minimum, you should be able to do several CPUs. It's simply not feasible
to put just enough compound for 1 CPU in a syringe. Spread it thin!
If you think of an actual syringe like you get your flu shot from, there would be enough
thermal compound in the needle itself after the syringe tube was empty to do several
CPUs. Spread it nice and flat (and thin!) with a single edged razorblade.

On 10 Dec 2003 12:58:11 GMT, mmyy (Simon) wrote:

I am in the process of building my first two machines at the same time. I am
planning to build afresh but reuse an two old cases and PSU's. I have found
that my ATX AOpen AMD motherboards I purcahsed (to go with the AMD 2500 and
2600 processors I got) dont physically fit the cases, and one of the PSU's
doesnt fit into the motherbaord connector either (wrong connector at the end)
Am I doing something wrong as the cases I am reusing are not that old (around
late 1999) didnt think building of motherbaords would change so much in that
time. And do I just need an adapter for the PSU or is it a bin job.

By the way can someone clear this up.....why are some PSU's a different wattage
to others. I want to run the usual plus two hard drives and a DVD ROM I wouldnt
need an uprated PSU for this surely. Also with themral compuind do you only get
enough appliacation in the syringes for one CPU/Heatsink or will I be able to
squeeze two out of it.

Many Thanks for everyones help


~~~~~~
Bait for spammers:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
]

~~~~~~
Remove "spamless" to email me.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newbie questions about 64-bit systems Humga AMD x86-64 Processors 13 August 4th 04 08:34 PM
Newbie questions on overclocking Mobile AMD 2400+/266 Athlon XP with A7N8X-E Deluxe rev.2 Arawak Overclocking AMD Processors 2 March 10th 04 08:30 PM
Complete newbie question(s) (long) Chris Martin Overclocking AMD Processors 1 December 26th 03 11:04 PM
QUESTIONS: Newbie using ECS K7S5A Pro Wiley Q. Hacker Homebuilt PC's 5 September 26th 03 07:35 AM
Newbie questions Sthithaprajna Homebuilt PC's 2 July 20th 03 09:16 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.