Watercooling, peltiers etc,..

I'm playing with ideas of building my own watercooling,.. (I like this
passive watercooling solution http://users.pandora.be/inox/koelblokjes.html)
The only thing I can't build is the copper cooling blocks, does someone have
experience with the ones you can buy? Which one should I get? Any reviews I
should read?
Same questions go for peltiers (in combination with water or air cooling)
Any suggestions, advice or tips would be greatly appriciated, thanks in
advance,..

--
Ugh!

There is no need for the entire cooling block to be made of copper ( you
could even do without copper, letting the cooling fluid pass directly over
the heat spreader); the cooling block could be plastic with a copper
bottom.

Koolance sells a cooling block with a plastic box and a copper bottom for
about $50 US; it has little pyramids cast in the top of the copper plate
(for better convection, I guess) and well designed mounting clips.

The simplest cooling block I have seen can be made using only a drill press
and pipe thread tap. Two holes are drilled most of the way from one edge of
the block to the opposite edge, then two more holes are dirlled most of the
way through from edge to edge, but at a right angle to the first two holes.
All four holes are tapped, with two on one edge closed with threaded plugs,
while the other two holes have barbed hose fixtures installed. That's the
whole thing, and it very likely works just as well as the Koolance block, it
just won't have the neat set of clips.

Peletiers have sorta come and gone already. Back when CPU's ran 25 to 35
Watts, a Peletier solution offered a lot of advantages for cooling below
room temperature (or even below 0 degrees C.) But now, with the fastest
CPU's approaching 100 Watts, Peletier arrays are not nearly so attractive.
The reason: Peletier arrays are not very efficient, and consume a lot more
power than they pump. A good rule of thumb for Peltier cooling is for the
Qmax rating to be two or three times the heat output of the CPU to get a
temperature differential between the hot side and the cold side (the cold
side is nearest the CPU). Qmax the MAXIMUM amount of heat that can be
pumped at ZERO temperature differential; no useful cooling. DeltaTmax is
the MAXIMUM temperature differential with ZERO heat being pumped; no useful
cooling. The "sweet spot" is about in the middle. For a CPU producing 80
Watts of heat, the Peltier array should have a Qmax rating of 240 Watts.
That Peltier array will consume about 200 Watts of power to give a
temperature differential of 40 degrees C when the CPU is producing 80 Watts
of heat. That means the heatsink (on the hot side of the Peltier array)
must handle 80 Watts + 200 Watts = 280 Watts. That is a LOT of heat, and
air cooling will not really be sufficient, especially as the CPU temperature
will depend directly on how cool the heatsink can keep the hot side of the
Peltier array. If the heatsink can only keep the Peltier hot side at 60
degrees C, then the Peltier cold side will be only 20 C ... not much cooling
for all the expense involved. That means water cooling is necessary for the
Peltier array hotside. If the water cooling can keep the hot side at 30
degrees C, the the cold side of the Peltier array can keep the CPU a bit
cooler than 0 degrees C. The 240 Watt Peltier array will need ~ 24 volts at
~ 8 Amperes or ~ 12 volts at 16 Amperes ( the voltages must be adjustable -
10%/+20%.

But then, just water cooling could keep the CPU near 30 C if the room
ambient temperature is ~ 25 degrees C. You can find more information on
Peltier arrays at
http://www.tellurex.com/ ,
and I have a small website at
http://www.mindspring.com/~pweldon/ with additional information on cooling.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."

"Moods" wrote in message
news:jvfTb.417612$_x2.872077@zonnet-reader-1...
I'm playing with ideas of building my own watercooling,.. (I like this
passive watercooling solution
http://users.pandora.be/inox/koelblokjes.html)
The only thing I can't build is the copper cooling blocks, does someone
have
experience with the ones you can buy? Which one should I get? Any reviews
I
should read?
Same questions go for peltiers (in combination with water or air cooling)
Any suggestions, advice or tips would be greatly appriciated, thanks in
advance,..

--
Ugh!

I dunno much about water coolers but Im using arctic silver 5 on a stock
heat sink ...over clocking standard 200(x4) FSB to 235 the CPU runs about 30
degrees C with normal desktop use and about 47degrees C with games. How much
overclocking to you plan on doing?

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
There is no need for the entire cooling block to be made of copper ( you
could even do without copper, letting the cooling fluid pass directly over
the heat spreader); the cooling block could be plastic with a copper
bottom.

Koolance sells a cooling block with a plastic box and a copper bottom for
about $50 US; it has little pyramids cast in the top of the copper plate
(for better convection, I guess) and well designed mounting clips.

The simplest cooling block I have seen can be made using only a drill
press
and pipe thread tap. Two holes are drilled most of the way from one edge
of
the block to the opposite edge, then two more holes are dirlled most of
the
way through from edge to edge, but at a right angle to the first two
holes.
All four holes are tapped, with two on one edge closed with threaded
plugs,
while the other two holes have barbed hose fixtures installed. That's the
whole thing, and it very likely works just as well as the Koolance block,
it
just won't have the neat set of clips.

Peletiers have sorta come and gone already. Back when CPU's ran 25 to 35
Watts, a Peletier solution offered a lot of advantages for cooling below
room temperature (or even below 0 degrees C.) But now, with the fastest
CPU's approaching 100 Watts, Peletier arrays are not nearly so
attractive.
The reason: Peletier arrays are not very efficient, and consume a lot
more
power than they pump. A good rule of thumb for Peltier cooling is for
the
Qmax rating to be two or three times the heat output of the CPU to get a
temperature differential between the hot side and the cold side (the cold
side is nearest the CPU). Qmax the MAXIMUM amount of heat that can be
pumped at ZERO temperature differential; no useful cooling. DeltaTmax is
the MAXIMUM temperature differential with ZERO heat being pumped; no
useful
cooling. The "sweet spot" is about in the middle. For a CPU producing 80
Watts of heat, the Peltier array should have a Qmax rating of 240 Watts.
That Peltier array will consume about 200 Watts of power to give a
temperature differential of 40 degrees C when the CPU is producing 80
Watts
of heat. That means the heatsink (on the hot side of the Peltier array)
must handle 80 Watts + 200 Watts = 280 Watts. That is a LOT of heat, and
air cooling will not really be sufficient, especially as the CPU
temperature
will depend directly on how cool the heatsink can keep the hot side of the
Peltier array. If the heatsink can only keep the Peltier hot side at 60
degrees C, then the Peltier cold side will be only 20 C ... not much
cooling
for all the expense involved. That means water cooling is necessary for
the
Peltier array hotside. If the water cooling can keep the hot side at 30
degrees C, the the cold side of the Peltier array can keep the CPU a bit
cooler than 0 degrees C. The 240 Watt Peltier array will need ~ 24 volts
at
~ 8 Amperes or ~ 12 volts at 16 Amperes ( the voltages must be
adjustable -
10%/+20%.

But then, just water cooling could keep the CPU near 30 C if the room
ambient temperature is ~ 25 degrees C. You can find more information on
Peltier arrays at
http://www.tellurex.com/ ,
and I have a small website at
http://www.mindspring.com/~pweldon/ with additional information on
cooling.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."

"Moods" wrote in message
news:jvfTb.417612$_x2.872077@zonnet-reader-1...
I'm playing with ideas of building my own watercooling,.. (I like this
passive watercooling solution
http://users.pandora.be/inox/koelblokjes.html)
The only thing I can't build is the copper cooling blocks, does someone
have
experience with the ones you can buy? Which one should I get? Any
reviews
I
should read?
Same questions go for peltiers (in combination with water or air
cooling)
Any suggestions, advice or tips would be greatly appriciated, thanks in
advance,..

--
Ugh!

In article ,
says...
Thus spake Moods:

I'm playing with ideas of building my own watercooling,..

Pretty much everything you need to know to do it yourself can be found
he procooling.com

waterblocks from simple to artfully complex, passive and active
radiators, pumps, peltiers, etc.


There was a guy asking what to do with his retail HSF, well here's an
idea, drill a 1/2" hole through each of the two banks of fans, insert a
1/2 copper pipe in each and solder all the joints. Hook up a small
water pump to that. I'm seriously thinking of doing that myself since
I'm hearing the buzzing of fans in my sleep now.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

Moods wrote:

I'm playing with ideas of building my own watercooling,.. (I like this
passive watercooling solution
http://users.pandora.be/inox/koelblokjes.html) The only thing I can't
build is the copper cooling blocks, does someone have experience with the
ones you can buy? Which one should I get? Any reviews I should read?
Same questions go for peltiers (in combination with water or air cooling)
Any suggestions, advice or tips would be greatly appriciated, thanks in
advance,..


I've been buying GEMINI water blocks as we rebuild our servers here at work.
They work quite well and are made locally. Any good overclocker supply
should have a line on them....


--

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"Moods" wrote in message
news:jvfTb.417612$_x2.872077@zonnet-reader-1...
I'm playing with ideas of building my own watercooling,.. (I like this
passive watercooling solution
http://users.pandora.be/inox/koelblokjes.html)
The only thing I can't build is the copper cooling blocks, does someone
have
experience with the ones you can buy? Which one should I get? Any
reviews
I
should read?
Same questions go for peltiers (in combination with water or air
cooling)
Any suggestions, advice or tips would be greatly appriciated, thanks in
advance,..


"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
There is no need for the entire cooling block to be made of copper ( you
could even do without copper, letting the cooling fluid pass directly over
the heat spreader); the cooling block could be plastic with a copper
bottom.

Koolance sells a cooling block with a plastic box and a copper bottom for
about $50 US; it has little pyramids cast in the top of the copper plate
(for better convection, I guess) and well designed mounting clips.

The simplest cooling block I have seen can be made using only a drill
press
and pipe thread tap. Two holes are drilled most of the way from one edge
of
the block to the opposite edge, then two more holes are dirlled most of
the
way through from edge to edge, but at a right angle to the first two
holes.
All four holes are tapped, with two on one edge closed with threaded
plugs,
while the other two holes have barbed hose fixtures installed. That's the
whole thing, and it very likely works just as well as the Koolance block,
it
just won't have the neat set of clips.

Peletiers have sorta come and gone already. Back when CPU's ran 25 to 35
Watts, a Peletier solution offered a lot of advantages for cooling below
room temperature (or even below 0 degrees C.) But now, with the fastest
CPU's approaching 100 Watts, Peletier arrays are not nearly so
attractive.
The reason: Peletier arrays are not very efficient, and consume a lot
more
power than they pump. A good rule of thumb for Peltier cooling is for
the
Qmax rating to be two or three times the heat output of the CPU to get a
temperature differential between the hot side and the cold side (the cold
side is nearest the CPU). Qmax the MAXIMUM amount of heat that can be
pumped at ZERO temperature differential; no useful cooling. DeltaTmax is
the MAXIMUM temperature differential with ZERO heat being pumped; no
useful
cooling. The "sweet spot" is about in the middle. For a CPU producing 80
Watts of heat, the Peltier array should have a Qmax rating of 240 Watts.
That Peltier array will consume about 200 Watts of power to give a
temperature differential of 40 degrees C when the CPU is producing 80
Watts
of heat. That means the heatsink (on the hot side of the Peltier array)
must handle 80 Watts + 200 Watts = 280 Watts. That is a LOT of heat, and
air cooling will not really be sufficient, especially as the CPU
temperature
will depend directly on how cool the heatsink can keep the hot side of the
Peltier array. If the heatsink can only keep the Peltier hot side at 60
degrees C, then the Peltier cold side will be only 20 C ... not much
cooling
for all the expense involved. That means water cooling is necessary for
the
Peltier array hotside. If the water cooling can keep the hot side at 30
degrees C, the the cold side of the Peltier array can keep the CPU a bit
cooler than 0 degrees C. The 240 Watt Peltier array will need ~ 24 volts
at
~ 8 Amperes or ~ 12 volts at 16 Amperes ( the voltages must be
adjustable -
10%/+20%.

But then, just water cooling could keep the CPU near 30 C if the room
ambient temperature is ~ 25 degrees C. You can find more information on
Peltier arrays at
http://www.tellurex.com/ ,
and I have a small website at
http://www.mindspring.com/~pweldon/ with additional information on
cooling.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."



Admittedly, water cooling may have lost its
practical advantages to some extent; but it's
still a lot of fun.

Some easy "technologies" that can make it
even more fun:

"Dremel" "Moto-Tool" (ranks up there with
sliced bread)

Silver Soldering, sometimes called Hobby
Solder (96% Tin/ 4% Silver) with or without
a torch, works great with brass fittings and
copper pipe.

Epoxy Putty, you can even get it in copper.

You can use the old casting trick; cut or shape
some bread so that it well fill the void you want,
and let it dry hard. Then just form the epoxy
putty over the bread and onto your copper
base and around the fittings. Once the Epoxy
has hardened just soak your block until the
bread inside is soft - then flush it out.

Think, Surplus. For $20 +ship I got a 10Gpm
(600Gph) pump for my next project. I picked
up two 10" 230vac fans for $25, they run great
and almost silent on 120vac. One of these fans
is pulling air through a heater core to cool the sys
I'm typing on. You just have to keep your eyes
open.

While I only mildly overclock, my home made
water cooling keeps everything cool and quiet,
and I had/have some fun making it.

Luck;
Ken

P.S. Hi Phil.