Epson printers are electronic theieves

That is totally incorrect.

In fact, one of the reasons Epson has been able to get away with their
chip monitoring system, which requires refilled cartridges to be
reprogrammed, is because it is promoted as a feature because you can
remove the cartridge and rental it at a later time WITHOUT losing the
ink level reported. For instance, let's say you decide you want to put
a fair amount of unsupervised printing while you are asleep. You might
wish to replace one or more cartridges with fresh ones to be sure you
won't run low on ink during the night. Then the following day, you
might wish to reinstall the old cartridges to use them up. Since the
presumed ink levels are recorded within the chip on the cartridge, the
printer immediately knows the anticipated ink levels. I use the term
anticipated, because the chip doesn't actually read the amount of ink in
the cartridge, but rather makes an intelligent estimate based upon the
number of dots the printer has expressed in any one ink color.


Art



JF Mezei wrote:

Tony wrote:

Have you tried using the driver software to change all the cartridges again but
using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.



EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you take
a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and put it
back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full. You need to
electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
into a printer before.

You aren't alone, and for people who mainly print snapshot sized images,
the labs may provide a better alternative.

However, do keep in mind even photo papers may ne less archival than
current pigment colorant inks.

Art

wrote:

On 9-Oct-2005, JF Mezei wrote:


Note that there was an article on CNET recently about how now about half
the people prefer to just go to some photo shop to have pictures printed
versus fiddling with their own printer/paper and INK, especially since
photo shops now cost much less for each image than printing it yourself.


And with the on-line shops you get perfect prints on archive paper, not
dye images that fade. This assumes that you are proficient enough
to get the image right before you upload, but that applies to however
you print it. I've abandoned the landfill specialists.

In the US and Canada, at least, I have not heard of Epson refusing
warranty repair due to 3rd party inks being used. Different countries
have differing laws regarding the nature of wraranty, so you may be
correct for the UK.

Art

Shooter wrote:

This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as a
buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM ink.
Any views on this.

"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
. dk...

Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both

incompetant

and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message.

This

will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet
having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print

and

I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative
branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It

is

both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what has
happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?
Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

If your printer is still under warranty, I would contact Epson about
your claim and see what they have to say. It is very possible there was
a defect in this machine.

Art

Dr. Dweeb wrote:

Anna Daptor wrote:

"JF Mezei" wrote in message
...

Tony wrote:

Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
cartridges again but
using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.


EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.

No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
in the cart when you replace it.



I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
mention this somewhere else IIRC.

The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily - the
final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10 pixel
logo.

I think it is a giant scheme of deceit and lies and I am really mad about
it.

Sadly, like almost everything else in the computer world, no one gives a FF.
and there is no where to lodge a complaint. Well maybe there is - I will
try during the week to harass support here and see what happens. I predict
abject failure.

Dr. Dweeb


You need to
electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
into a printer before.

That's true if you've refilled the cart.

That's one heck of an expensive Olive Oil.

I just bought some extra-extra virgin 3 litres for under $20 CAN.

Same goes for maple syrup... I pay about $10 CAN per litre.

Art

Jeff Cameron wrote:

In a world where Gasoline prices are rising, but is still less than bottled
water, here are some comparative prices of liquids.
Items $/gallon
Gasoline $ 3.00
Milk $ 2.99
Coca-Cola $ 2.84
Gatorade $ 5.20
Evian Water $ 5.60
Orange Juice $ 6.64
Crisco Oil $ 7.44
Perrier Water $ 8.16
Snapple $ 10.32
Scope Mouthwash $ 27.20
Lemon Oil $ 27.22
Olive Oil $ 51.04
Shampoo $ 40.44
Real Maple Syrup $ 57.08
Jack Daniel's Bourbon $ 101.12
Visine Eye Drops $ 995.84
Nasacort Nasal Spray $2,615.28
Printer ink $8,895.72

Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains
17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.

All prices are in US dollars, and are subject to change...
Jeff Cameron

Reference: http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=152


On 10/9/05 9:33 AM, in article
, "Dr. Dweeb"
wrote:


Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both incompetant
and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message. This
will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet
having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print and
I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative
branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what has
happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?
Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"
This is why I'm not keen on individual ink cartridges, since each
time
one is replaced, all other cartridges lose a fair amount of ink.


So if I just print anything with Cyan and Yellow by the time when the
ink tank requires replacement there is going to be a fair amount of
Magenta ink left,
and yes we know the three colours are mixed.

What I am saying here is if you don't use all the colours equally
there is bound to more left of one colour when the 'red flag' is
'waved'.

That is the downfall of a combi-cartridge... not exactly fair.

Davy

Davywrote:
[quote:9ef5402e41="Davy"][quote:9ef5402e41]quote
This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
warranty
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.


They don't wanna know if an exhanged printer goes the same way as the
first one - OEM inks was used on both printers.

And they told me the guarantee is not transfered to the exchanged one,
in other words if the exchanged one broke down that was it.

Bad practice, poor company = Crap company AND nothing better.

Davy[/quote:9ef5402e41][/quote:9ef5402e41]

Poor company = Crap company as I have said before, their policies are
not exactly up-front considering this and their ink tanks saga.

Davy

Studies have shown that the subject matter printed by a home printer
averages out to within about 10% of all colors used equally (of CMY), so
the waste is minimal in the vast majority of cases.

This is different with 6 or more colors. The light C and M inks are
used at twice the rate as the darker C and M inks, usually,

Art

Davy wrote:
Arthur Entlichwrote:

quote="Arthur Entlich"

This is why I'm not keen on individual ink cartridges, since each

time

one is replaced, all other cartridges lose a fair amount of ink.



So if I just print anything with Cyan and Yellow by the time when the
ink tank requires replacement there is going to be a fair amount of
Magenta ink left,
and yes we know the three colours are mixed.

What I am saying here is if you don't use all the colours equally
there is bound to more left of one colour when the 'red flag' is
'waved'.

That is the downfall of a combi-cartridge... not exactly fair.

Davy

*D**A BULL**** XCHANGE*

Arthur Entlich wrote:

That's one heck of an expensive Olive Oil.

I just bought some extra-extra virgin 3 litres for under $20 CAN.

Same goes for maple syrup... I pay about $10 CAN per litre.

Art

Jeff Cameron wrote:

In a world where Gasoline prices are rising, but is still less than
bottled
water, here are some comparative prices of liquids.
Items $/gallon
Gasoline $ 3.00
Milk $ 2.99
Coca-Cola $ 2.84
Gatorade $ 5.20
Evian Water $ 5.60
Orange Juice $ 6.64
Crisco Oil $ 7.44
Perrier Water $ 8.16
Snapple $ 10.32
Scope Mouthwash $ 27.20
Lemon Oil $ 27.22
Olive Oil $ 51.04
Shampoo $ 40.44
Real Maple Syrup $ 57.08
Jack Daniel's Bourbon $ 101.12
Visine Eye Drops $ 995.84
Nasacort Nasal Spray $2,615.28
Printer ink $8,895.72

Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains
17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.

All prices are in US dollars, and are subject to change...
Jeff Cameron

Reference: http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=152


On 10/9/05 9:33 AM, in article
, "Dr. Dweeb"
wrote:


Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant
and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the
other 5
read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"
message. This
will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not
yet
having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot
print and
I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of
alternative
branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes
me. It is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what has
happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I
give up ?
Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

Dr. Dweeb wrote:

Marky IN DA BUSINESS wrote:


"Shooter" wrote in message
...


This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
warranty claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be
used. it is my opinion that if they do not state plainly that other
ink can not be used then in the UK there could be room for
litigation for misrepresentation as a buyer is buying only a printer
and is not and should not be tied to OEM ink. Any views on this.


Using third party inks in NA does not void your warranty and should
not void a warranty anywhere...what we were doing is if the printer
came in and we put in Epson inks and the printer worked properly the
customer could be charged for the ink cartridges (since they take the
credit card info)...I don't remember ever hearing of this being done
but it was always an option...

My question would be "if Epson honors their warranty by replacing the
printer and the end user gets a working model (with free Epson inks)
but then messes it up again with non-Epson cartridges, should Epson
keep replacing the unit free or should they charge the customer?".

Why should Epson honor the warranty when they know that it is the
inks that messed the printer up?

I've had customers admit that they used third party inks and then
freaked out when I told them that if the inks are responsible the
warranty for that issue would not be valid...but their warranty is
not voided by simply using these inks.

Epson recently changed their policy in NA where they will now do
support on non-Epson inks...prior to the lawsuit they could simply
refuse to troubleshoot until the customer put in Epson inks (but who
is to know?).

That was always good for a trip to my supervisor for the customer...




Recall, my printer was functioning flawlessly to my great satisfaction unil
I inserted a new 3. arty cartridge - the result of which is that I have not
printed one character since, 5 cartridges that formerlly contained plenty of
ink are now "empty" and the new cartridge has declined to 84%.

All of this without a single page being printed.

Clogging is not an issue I have raised.

Dweeb


"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
ty.dk...


Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little
asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the
other 5 read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from
Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the
ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"
message. This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite
not yet having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot
print and I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges
(even of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive
exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes
me. It is both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason
for what has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing
a non-Epson cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I
give up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally
apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb