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A7N8X-VM/400 - it's official, Asus' most memory fussy mobo (long)
A7N8X-VM/400 - it's official, Asus' most memory fussy mobo
Careful when using this mobo with integrated graphics (which was probably why you wanted to buy it). Memory timings when system memory is shared with the integrated graphics processor are far tighter than when a plugin agp card is used. I'm running cheap & cheerful 400MHz ram at 333MHz and figured the underclocking would leave me a healthy timing margin. It does, 24hrs of memtest86 and 12hrs of Prime95 suggest it's solid, but run anything graphics intensive, like a movie, and it falls flat on it's face. Symptoms are typical of interaction between graphics & system accesses, corrupted stripes in the display, then the inevitable crash as a crucial area of system mem is corrupted. Ok, I've got cheap memory, but use a plugin agp card and it's solid as a rock - seems a little unfair. Asus uk tech support are patient & helpful, but basically they say go & buy premium memory, which memory you ask, as there is currently no approved memory list for this board. He suggests I visit my friendly local retailer and try premium memory brands until I find one that works. After a long call (friday afternoon) the support guy's resolve falters; he says: 1. This board was never intended for public sale 2. It was produced at the request of large OEMs to satisfy the need for simple, fully integrated boxes. 3. It is their most memory fussy board ever. 4. When the pet OEMs ran into memory problems they were asked which memory they would like to use and the board/bios was tweaked to suit. 5. There is no publicly available list of the memory that this board has been tweaked to work with. 6. A user tweakable bios is not in the pipeline for this board I'm not prepared to take the risk of buying more memory without a guaranteed fix so I'm using the known fix of a plugin agp card. It is now solid, cheap memory and all. Thought I'd make life simple this time, pay the premium, buy the big name and go for integrated graphics, I won't be making that mistake again. -- fred |
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In article , fred wrote:
A7N8X-VM/400 - it's official, Asus' most memory fussy mobo Careful when using this mobo with integrated graphics (which was probably why you wanted to buy it). Memory timings when system memory is shared with the integrated graphics processor are far tighter than when a plugin agp card is used. I'm running cheap & cheerful 400MHz ram at 333MHz and figured the underclocking would leave me a healthy timing margin. It does, 24hrs of memtest86 and 12hrs of Prime95 suggest it's solid, but run anything graphics intensive, like a movie, and it falls flat on it's face. Symptoms are typical of interaction between graphics & system accesses, corrupted stripes in the display, then the inevitable crash as a crucial area of system mem is corrupted. Ok, I've got cheap memory, but use a plugin agp card and it's solid as a rock - seems a little unfair. Asus uk tech support are patient & helpful, but basically they say go & buy premium memory, which memory you ask, as there is currently no approved memory list for this board. He suggests I visit my friendly local retailer and try premium memory brands until I find one that works. After a long call (friday afternoon) the support guy's resolve falters; he says: 1. This board was never intended for public sale 2. It was produced at the request of large OEMs to satisfy the need for simple, fully integrated boxes. 3. It is their most memory fussy board ever. 4. When the pet OEMs ran into memory problems they were asked which memory they would like to use and the board/bios was tweaked to suit. 5. There is no publicly available list of the memory that this board has been tweaked to work with. 6. A user tweakable bios is not in the pipeline for this board I'm not prepared to take the risk of buying more memory without a guaranteed fix so I'm using the known fix of a plugin agp card. It is now solid, cheap memory and all. Thought I'd make life simple this time, pay the premium, buy the big name and go for integrated graphics, I won't be making that mistake again. Strings I found in the 1001 BIOS. The same strings are in the 1002 BIOS. I don't see anything to suggest a PC3200 stick is getting special treatment, just the -6 (PC2700) sticks listed below. Presumably other sticks are adjusted according to the contents of their SPD (for better or worse). You can find these with a hex editor - I couldn't get AMIBCP to accept the ROM files. NT5DS16M8AT-6 Nanya 128MB PC2700 DDR NT256D64S8HA0G-6 Nanya 256MB PC2700 DDR MPMA82D-68KX3-MAA Kingmax PC2700 memory 128MB MPMA82D-68KX3-MBA MPMB62D-68KX3-MAA Kingmax PC2700 memory 256MB HYS64D32300GU-6 Infineon PC2700 memory 256MB HYS64D64320GU-6 Infineon PC2700 memory 512MB NT512D64S8HB1G-6 Nanya 512MB PC2700 DDR I checked a A7N8X/VM 1009 BIOS and it has the same module part numbers in it, all except the last one. This page has a memory table at the bottom. Note this is not for the VM/400 board and does not imply the same memory would be "special" in any way. I only mention this if you want to discuss this table with your Asus tech support guy. http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/sock...m/overview.htm Under the circumstances, I think your workaround, an AGP card, is the right one. Virtually any AGP card will have better performance than the integrated graphics, and the AGP card isn't stealing bandwidth from the memory controller, so you'll get a (very slight) performance boost when doing normal computing. As for the rationale for why the board was produced - no OEM requested this board. Asus just floods the market with every chipset they can lay their hands on. Chip makers produce reference motherboard designs, helping to reduce the work that Asus has to do to bring a board to market. And, if the board or chipset turns out to be a flop, Asus tries to sell them anyway. In cases where a design is prematurely withdrawn from the market (P4S8X), you won't get a swap for another model, to replace whatever isn't working properly. So, I don't think there is any "high minded" intent with respect to what boards they produce. (For the less than stellar boards, most home users will tire of returning the boards under warranty and either crush the board with a hammer or throw it in a dusty corner of the room. And, the more unscrupulous home users will Ebay the board to the unsuspecting noob.) HTH, Paul |
#3
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In article , Paul
writes Strings I found in the 1001 BIOS. The same strings are in the 1002 BIOS. I don't see anything to suggest a PC3200 stick is getting special treatment, just the -6 (PC2700) sticks listed below. Presumably other sticks are adjusted according to the contents of their SPD (for better or worse). You can find these with a hex editor - I couldn't get AMIBCP to accept the ROM files. NT5DS16M8AT-6 Nanya 128MB PC2700 DDR NT256D64S8HA0G-6 Nanya 256MB PC2700 DDR MPMA82D-68KX3-MAA Kingmax PC2700 memory 128MB MPMA82D-68KX3-MBA MPMB62D-68KX3-MAA Kingmax PC2700 memory 256MB HYS64D32300GU-6 Infineon PC2700 memory 256MB HYS64D64320GU-6 Infineon PC2700 memory 512MB NT512D64S8HB1G-6 Nanya 512MB PC2700 DDR I checked a A7N8X/VM 1009 BIOS and it has the same module part numbers in it, all except the last one. This page has a memory table at the bottom. Note this is not for the VM/400 board and does not imply the same memory would be "special" in any way. I only mention this if you want to discuss this table with your Asus tech support guy. http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/sock...m/overview.htm Under the circumstances, I think your workaround, an AGP card, is the right one. Virtually any AGP card will have better performance than the integrated graphics, and the AGP card isn't stealing bandwidth from the memory controller, so you'll get a (very slight) performance boost when doing normal computing. As for the rationale for why the board was produced - no OEM requested this board. Asus just floods the market with every chipset they can lay their hands on. Chip makers produce reference motherboard designs, helping to reduce the work that Asus has to do to bring a board to market. And, if the board or chipset turns out to be a flop, Asus tries to sell them anyway. In cases where a design is prematurely withdrawn from the market (P4S8X), you won't get a swap for another model, to replace whatever isn't working properly. So, I don't think there is any "high minded" intent with respect to what boards they produce. (For the less than stellar boards, most home users will tire of returning the boards under warranty and either crush the board with a hammer or throw it in a dusty corner of the room. And, the more unscrupulous home users will Ebay the board to the unsuspecting noob.) HTH, Paul Thanks for your most insightful comments, they encouraged me to have another look at the problem but without further success. I'd like to take it further but it's taking too long for me to work on it without being paid. Thanks for the introduction to AMIBCP, a shame it won't accept the files. Word of warning to aspiring downloaders of this prog, the crazyape page on stormforce claiming to be the repository of AMIBCP has malware in the link to v7.51.03 which tries to install a premium dialler if it is accessed with javascript/activeX enabled. When accessed without these enabled, the true prog is downloaded so I doubt the user was aware of the malware (popup ad?), but I have raised a complaint anyway. Well spotted on the string search. I had seen the recommended memory on the VM variant, but just wasn't prepared to pay the premium price for what was not a performance critical application, thinking I would detune in the bios if necessary - oops. My thoughts are much as this guy's, a system builder with similar problems: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...5fbfc26ad5abcc 675c4bbae45e1&threadid=67997 The video card was an easy fix for me (Generic GeForce4MX 440 8xAGP) and at 31GBP I didn't squeal too much at the extra expense - certainly cheaper than a couple of sticks of premium 256M at today's prices. Next time I will dig a bit deeper before committing, more haste, less speed. Ta, -- fred |
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#5
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In article ,
Callas writes wrote: A7N8X-VM/400 - it's official, Asus' most memory fussy mobo Careful when using this mobo with integrated graphics (which was probably why you wanted to buy it). Memory timings when system memory is shared with the integrated graphics processor are far tighter than when a plugin agp card is used. I'm running cheap & cheerful 400MHz ram at 333MHz and figured the underclocking would leave me a healthy timing margin. It does, 24hrs of memtest86 and 12hrs of Prime95 suggest it's solid, but run anything graphics intensive, like a movie, and it falls flat on it's face. Symptoms are typical of interaction between graphics & system accesses, corrupted stripes in the display, then the inevitable crash as a crucial area of system mem is corrupted. I have the same problem. I very recently bought the parts to build a budget PC for a friend. I am using the integrated graphics card on the motherboard. I bought two sticks of 256mb 333 MHz Corair Value Select RAM. Using both or either of these sticks gives memory corruption on the display and either a lockup or a BSOD after a short time - a few minutes. I then took a 256mb 200 MHz Crucial Technology stick out from my PC and tried that; no problems. (However, I've not tried running video; just installing software.) I think it unlikely that *both* sticks of Corsair memory are broken. It may be that this is indeed a motherboard issue. This will be extremely annoying because I have already built the PC, installed and configured Windows and application/network/utility software. If this is a motherboard issue, ASUS' reputation with me will have taken a serious knock - I used to think they were reliable and I bought their boards, accepting their ASUS' generally higher prices, because of this. Anyways, I will return the RAM and try replacements. If they also fail, then I will be confident the RAM is not at fault. Then it will be a case of returning the motherboard and buying an alternative. -- Callas Sorry to hear you have the same problem, but relieved that I am not having finger trouble. This guy is a system builder and has still had major probs: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...5fbfc26ad5abcc 675c4bbae45e1&threadid=67997 You may wish to copy my quick fix of the video card as mine cost only 31GBP - it won't take long in time expended to pay for that. I used a generic GeForce4MX 440 8xAGP which I think uses the same engine as the onboard video. I hated to make the onboard video redundant but now that I have it working, those qualms are completely forgotten. Just to be sure though, my system was rock steady with video acceleration turned off, memtest86 clean for 12hrs & prime95 crash free for about the same. I wouldn't rely on this fix otherwise. HTH -- fred |
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1. This board was never intended for public sale 2. It was produced at the request of large OEMs to satisfy the need for simple, fully integrated boxes. 3. It is their most memory fussy board ever. 4. When the pet OEMs ran into memory problems they were asked which memory they would like to use and the board/bios was tweaked to suit. 5. There is no publicly available list of the memory that this board has been tweaked to work with. 6. A user tweakable bios is not in the pipeline for this board I'm not prepared to take the risk of buying more memory without a guaranteed fix so I'm using the known fix of a plugin agp card. It is now solid, cheap memory and all. Thought I'd make life simple this time, pay the premium, buy the big name and go for integrated graphics, I won't be making that mistake again. I never dreamed ASUS would release a board with a BIOS that did nothing. For $20 less the Biostar M7NCG 400 does everything. I am able to run Gold Dragon RAM on the A7N8X-VM400 but with no overclocking abilities the board is useless to me. |
#7
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won't be making that mistake again.
Get an Abit mobo. They rock! -- Pepe Milano, Italy |
#8
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In article , Giuseppe
Carmine De Blasio writes won't be making that mistake again. Get an Abit mobo. They rock! Sadly my hindsight goggles were broken in a recent accident ;-/ -- fred |
#9
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So, how do you run your 400MHz RAM at 333MHz? I'm curios.
There's almost nothing one can tweak in the BIOS, in terms of timing. I can't agree more the board is fussy. Mine is an older version A7N8X-VM, and I'm consider to buy a replacement main board, say a Gigabyte or something. Anyway, I'd owned more than 10 Asus main boards, A7N8X-VM is the only one make me disappointed, I was thinking that it was a bad sample. But it does give me quite some headache. My 2 cents. Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, fred wrote: A7N8X-VM/400 - it's official, Asus' most memory fussy mobo Careful when using this mobo with integrated graphics (which was probably why you wanted to buy it). Memory timings when system memory is shared with the integrated graphics processor are far tighter than when a plugin agp card is used. I'm running cheap & cheerful 400MHz ram at 333MHz and figured the underclocking would leave me a healthy timing margin. It does, 24hrs of memtest86 and 12hrs of Prime95 suggest it's solid, but run anything graphics intensive, like a movie, and it falls flat on it's face. Symptoms are typical of interaction between graphics & system accesses, corrupted stripes in the display, then the inevitable crash as a crucial area of system mem is corrupted. Ok, I've got cheap memory, but use a plugin agp card and it's solid as a rock - seems a little unfair. Asus uk tech support are patient & helpful, but basically they say go & buy premium memory, which memory you ask, as there is currently no approved memory list for this board. He suggests I visit my friendly local retailer and try premium memory brands until I find one that works. After a long call (friday afternoon) the support guy's resolve falters; he says: 1. This board was never intended for public sale 2. It was produced at the request of large OEMs to satisfy the need for simple, fully integrated boxes. 3. It is their most memory fussy board ever. 4. When the pet OEMs ran into memory problems they were asked which memory they would like to use and the board/bios was tweaked to suit. 5. There is no publicly available list of the memory that this board has been tweaked to work with. 6. A user tweakable bios is not in the pipeline for this board I'm not prepared to take the risk of buying more memory without a guaranteed fix so I'm using the known fix of a plugin agp card. It is now solid, cheap memory and all. Thought I'd make life simple this time, pay the premium, buy the big name and go for integrated graphics, I won't be making that mistake again. -- fred |
#10
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A friend of mine bought one of these as well, his fix was if you use the
onboard graphics use only one stick of ram. Dual channel only seems to work if you install an AGP card. He had no problems at all with it once he was using a single stick. "Stephen SM WONG" wrote in message caldomain... So, how do you run your 400MHz RAM at 333MHz? I'm curios. There's almost nothing one can tweak in the BIOS, in terms of timing. I can't agree more the board is fussy. Mine is an older version A7N8X-VM, and I'm consider to buy a replacement main board, say a Gigabyte or something. Anyway, I'd owned more than 10 Asus main boards, A7N8X-VM is the only one make me disappointed, I was thinking that it was a bad sample. But it does give me quite some headache. My 2 cents. Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, fred wrote: A7N8X-VM/400 - it's official, Asus' most memory fussy mobo Careful when using this mobo with integrated graphics (which was probably why you wanted to buy it). Memory timings when system memory is shared with the integrated graphics processor are far tighter than when a plugin agp card is used. I'm running cheap & cheerful 400MHz ram at 333MHz and figured the underclocking would leave me a healthy timing margin. It does, 24hrs of memtest86 and 12hrs of Prime95 suggest it's solid, but run anything graphics intensive, like a movie, and it falls flat on it's face. Symptoms are typical of interaction between graphics & system accesses, corrupted stripes in the display, then the inevitable crash as a crucial area of system mem is corrupted. Ok, I've got cheap memory, but use a plugin agp card and it's solid as a rock - seems a little unfair. Asus uk tech support are patient & helpful, but basically they say go & buy premium memory, which memory you ask, as there is currently no approved memory list for this board. He suggests I visit my friendly local retailer and try premium memory brands until I find one that works. After a long call (friday afternoon) the support guy's resolve falters; he says: 1. This board was never intended for public sale 2. It was produced at the request of large OEMs to satisfy the need for simple, fully integrated boxes. 3. It is their most memory fussy board ever. 4. When the pet OEMs ran into memory problems they were asked which memory they would like to use and the board/bios was tweaked to suit. 5. There is no publicly available list of the memory that this board has been tweaked to work with. 6. A user tweakable bios is not in the pipeline for this board I'm not prepared to take the risk of buying more memory without a guaranteed fix so I'm using the known fix of a plugin agp card. It is now solid, cheap memory and all. Thought I'd make life simple this time, pay the premium, buy the big name and go for integrated graphics, I won't be making that mistake again. -- fred |
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