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#1
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P4S333 doesn't work with Geforce 5200 or any AGP x8 cards!
The Asus P4s333 motherboard has a serious problem when it comes to
graphic cards that has agp x8. you can all read the problems mentioned in the link below: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...threadid=54274 I personally tried 5 different cards and NONE worked! This is totaly insane. The cards we Gainward geforce fx 5200 128 ddr agp x8 Gainward geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 ST Lab geforce 5200 fx Palit Daytona geforce 5200 128 ddr 64-bit agp x8 Palit daytona geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 Asus claims the problem is with the low power supply from the psu (mine was 300watts), but other users, as you can see from the link above, have power supplies of 400+ watts, and it still doesn't work! the problem is the chipset. the SIS 645 cannot deal with these new graphic cards, and no new BIOS version is in sight. This is all they had to say about this issue: Dear valued Customer, Thanks for Contacting ASUSTeK. in theory, the board can support this vga card. but because this vga card is high level, we think the power issue is the issue point. please use one more powerful power supply to verify this issue. Thanks for choosing our products very much. ASUS, you totaly disappoint me! Oded S. |
#2
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In article ,
(Oded S.) wrote: The Asus P4s333 motherboard has a serious problem when it comes to graphic cards that has agp x8. you can all read the problems mentioned in the link below: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...threadid=54274 I personally tried 5 different cards and NONE worked! This is totaly insane. The cards we Gainward geforce fx 5200 128 ddr agp x8 Gainward geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 ST Lab geforce 5200 fx Palit Daytona geforce 5200 128 ddr 64-bit agp x8 Palit daytona geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 Asus claims the problem is with the low power supply from the psu (mine was 300watts), but other users, as you can see from the link above, have power supplies of 400+ watts, and it still doesn't work! the problem is the chipset. the SIS 645 cannot deal with these new graphic cards, and no new BIOS version is in sight. This is all they had to say about this issue: Dear valued Customer, Thanks for Contacting ASUSTeK. in theory, the board can support this vga card. but because this vga card is high level, we think the power issue is the issue point. please use one more powerful power supply to verify this issue. Thanks for choosing our products very much. ASUS, you totaly disappoint me! Oded S. I think the problem might be as follows: 1) I read that on motherboards that don't support 8X, the AGP speed is read back at BIOS time as 2X instead of 8X. 2) In the P4S333 BIOS, you can see that the AGP setting has only two values - 1X and 4X. Now, this is a big guess, but when an 8X card is plugged in, and shows up as a 2X card, you end up with a mismatch between what the BIOS will support and what the card appears to want. Kaboom. The root of the problem may be that the AGP status register is hard wired to 0 in this design, making it impossible for the 8X capability to be read properly. After all, the chipset is rated for 4X, so only has to comply with the wording of the AGP20 spec. ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...oads/agp20.pdf (pg.251) http://developer.intel.com/technolog...0_final_10.pdf (pg.48) The real question would be why the SIS chipset cannot operate at AGP 2X. Normally, backward compatibility requirements for AGP require support for all rates, so a 4X mobo should be able to do 2X and 1X. I expect this is some kind of limitation with the Northbridge chip design. Maybe the mode is in there, but doesn't work properly. The P4S533 manual shows all three options 1X,2X,4X in the BIOS, so I guess the different version of Northbridge fixes it. I would be curious about when a P4S333 is flashed with a P4S533 BIOS, whether the AGP Capability entry in the BIOS offers 1X, 2X, 4X or not. If it does, then the only thing preventing the hack from working is whether the busted 2X AGP support just happens to work in that particular Northbridge chip or not. If you hack the slot to indicate a 3.3V only card, that would force operation at 1X, but that would hardly be a good permanent fix, because the AGP card performance would be pretty bad at 1X. That hack would involve the TYPEDET pin, and assumes both the motherboard and video card can operate safely with 3.3V AGP I/O. Since the manual documents this deficiency early in the life of the board (i.e. it is in the manual), I wonder why Asus bothered to ship this board. They should have waited for the next version of that Northbridge with a working 2X AGP rate. My theories, Paul |
#3
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Hi Paul.
I tried the P4s533 BIOS instead of the 333 one. it didn't change a thing. It did however give the 3 choices as you pointed out (x2, x4 and x8). For the life of me i cannot understand why would asus/sis keep this thing stuck like this. it's just a simple BIOS update, nothing more. Does ANYONE know how to make this combo work? Oded S. "Paul" wrote in message ... In article , (Oded S.) wrote: The Asus P4s333 motherboard has a serious problem when it comes to graphic cards that has agp x8. you can all read the problems mentioned in the link below: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...threadid=54274 I personally tried 5 different cards and NONE worked! This is totaly insane. The cards we Gainward geforce fx 5200 128 ddr agp x8 Gainward geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 ST Lab geforce 5200 fx Palit Daytona geforce 5200 128 ddr 64-bit agp x8 Palit daytona geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 Asus claims the problem is with the low power supply from the psu (mine was 300watts), but other users, as you can see from the link above, have power supplies of 400+ watts, and it still doesn't work! the problem is the chipset. the SIS 645 cannot deal with these new graphic cards, and no new BIOS version is in sight. This is all they had to say about this issue: Dear valued Customer, Thanks for Contacting ASUSTeK. in theory, the board can support this vga card. but because this vga card is high level, we think the power issue is the issue point. please use one more powerful power supply to verify this issue. Thanks for choosing our products very much. ASUS, you totaly disappoint me! Oded S. I think the problem might be as follows: 1) I read that on motherboards that don't support 8X, the AGP speed is read back at BIOS time as 2X instead of 8X. 2) In the P4S333 BIOS, you can see that the AGP setting has only two values - 1X and 4X. Now, this is a big guess, but when an 8X card is plugged in, and shows up as a 2X card, you end up with a mismatch between what the BIOS will support and what the card appears to want. Kaboom. The root of the problem may be that the AGP status register is hard wired to 0 in this design, making it impossible for the 8X capability to be read properly. After all, the chipset is rated for 4X, so only has to comply with the wording of the AGP20 spec. ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...oads/agp20.pdf (pg.251) http://developer.intel.com/technolog...0_final_10.pdf (pg.48) The real question would be why the SIS chipset cannot operate at AGP 2X. Normally, backward compatibility requirements for AGP require support for all rates, so a 4X mobo should be able to do 2X and 1X. I expect this is some kind of limitation with the Northbridge chip design. Maybe the mode is in there, but doesn't work properly. The P4S533 manual shows all three options 1X,2X,4X in the BIOS, so I guess the different version of Northbridge fixes it. I would be curious about when a P4S333 is flashed with a P4S533 BIOS, whether the AGP Capability entry in the BIOS offers 1X, 2X, 4X or not. If it does, then the only thing preventing the hack from working is whether the busted 2X AGP support just happens to work in that particular Northbridge chip or not. If you hack the slot to indicate a 3.3V only card, that would force operation at 1X, but that would hardly be a good permanent fix, because the AGP card performance would be pretty bad at 1X. That hack would involve the TYPEDET pin, and assumes both the motherboard and video card can operate safely with 3.3V AGP I/O. Since the manual documents this deficiency early in the life of the board (i.e. it is in the manual), I wonder why Asus bothered to ship this board. They should have waited for the next version of that Northbridge with a working 2X AGP rate. My theories, Paul |
#4
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In article , "Oded S." wrote:
Hi Paul. I tried the P4s533 BIOS instead of the 333 one. it didn't change a thing. It did however give the 3 choices as you pointed out (x2, x4 and x8). For the life of me i cannot understand why would asus/sis keep this thing stuck like this. it's just a simple BIOS update, nothing more. Does ANYONE know how to make this combo work? Oded S. Over on the forums at abxzone.com, there is a participant with the handle "Bigtoe". He modifies BIOS with the utility called "modbin", and that utility apparently has the ability to enable more options in a BIOS. Using modbin, or finding someone who knows how to use it, would be one route to adding the 2X option to the P4S333 BIOS. Since modbin just changes the UI, it doesn't add actual code to the BIOS, so if there is some underlying code that is required for an option to work, modbin cannot fix that. And, as I suggested in my previous post, if the underlying problem is with the Northbridge AGP interface hardware running at a 2X rate, then even if the BIOS was modified, you would have a problem. The limiting factor might be whether the BIOS will allow a selection for the AGP slot rate, which is faster than what the AGP status register says is possible. For example, if the AGP status says a 2X capable card is installed, would the BIOS offer 4X as a possible rate, or would it simply offer 1X or 2X as options ? If the BIOS always offers 1X, 2X, 4X, no matter what kind of card is plugged into the AGP slot, then you could try: 1) With the old video card in the machine, set the AGP slot to 1X. 2) Remove the old card, install the new card. 3) Hope that the BIOS doesn't "do the math" and try to set the slot to 2X. 4) When the machine POSTs with the new card, set the AGP slot to 4X. Save and exit. 5) Pray that the BIOS will blindly allow the setting of 4X. I cannot imagine a BIOS being that lax about setting the hardware, but you never know... Paul "Paul" wrote in message ... In article , (Oded S.) wrote: The Asus P4s333 motherboard has a serious problem when it comes to graphic cards that has agp x8. you can all read the problems mentioned in the link below: http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...threadid=54274 I personally tried 5 different cards and NONE worked! This is totaly insane. The cards we Gainward geforce fx 5200 128 ddr agp x8 Gainward geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 ST Lab geforce 5200 fx Palit Daytona geforce 5200 128 ddr 64-bit agp x8 Palit daytona geforce4 128 ddr agp x8 Asus claims the problem is with the low power supply from the psu (mine was 300watts), but other users, as you can see from the link above, have power supplies of 400+ watts, and it still doesn't work! the problem is the chipset. the SIS 645 cannot deal with these new graphic cards, and no new BIOS version is in sight. This is all they had to say about this issue: Dear valued Customer, Thanks for Contacting ASUSTeK. in theory, the board can support this vga card. but because this vga card is high level, we think the power issue is the issue point. please use one more powerful power supply to verify this issue. Thanks for choosing our products very much. ASUS, you totaly disappoint me! Oded S. I think the problem might be as follows: 1) I read that on motherboards that don't support 8X, the AGP speed is read back at BIOS time as 2X instead of 8X. 2) In the P4S333 BIOS, you can see that the AGP setting has only two values - 1X and 4X. Now, this is a big guess, but when an 8X card is plugged in, and shows up as a 2X card, you end up with a mismatch between what the BIOS will support and what the card appears to want. Kaboom. The root of the problem may be that the AGP status register is hard wired to 0 in this design, making it impossible for the 8X capability to be read properly. After all, the chipset is rated for 4X, so only has to comply with the wording of the AGP20 spec. ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...oads/agp20.pdf (pg.251) http://developer.intel.com/technolog...0_final_10.pdf (pg.48) The real question would be why the SIS chipset cannot operate at AGP 2X. Normally, backward compatibility requirements for AGP require support for all rates, so a 4X mobo should be able to do 2X and 1X. I expect this is some kind of limitation with the Northbridge chip design. Maybe the mode is in there, but doesn't work properly. The P4S533 manual shows all three options 1X,2X,4X in the BIOS, so I guess the different version of Northbridge fixes it. I would be curious about when a P4S333 is flashed with a P4S533 BIOS, whether the AGP Capability entry in the BIOS offers 1X, 2X, 4X or not. If it does, then the only thing preventing the hack from working is whether the busted 2X AGP support just happens to work in that particular Northbridge chip or not. If you hack the slot to indicate a 3.3V only card, that would force operation at 1X, but that would hardly be a good permanent fix, because the AGP card performance would be pretty bad at 1X. That hack would involve the TYPEDET pin, and assumes both the motherboard and video card can operate safely with 3.3V AGP I/O. Since the manual documents this deficiency early in the life of the board (i.e. it is in the manual), I wonder why Asus bothered to ship this board. They should have waited for the next version of that Northbridge with a working 2X AGP rate. My theories, Paul |
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