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#1
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PSU kills bios!?
I've have some weird problems with my computer:
A couple of weeks ago my computer wouldn't start up. (black screen, no beeps, no keyboard lights, but sound of fans and harddrives). After turning it off/on a couple of times, it worked. This problem reoccured a couple of times but suddenly I can't get it to start up at all. I removed everything so only the motherboard (Asus A7V-E, Socket A, KT133), PSU (300W), RAM (256 MB sdram), video card + monitor and one hd was left. The pc-speaker and power switch was still connected. When I turn on the psu and hit the power-switch the fans starts spinning and the hd starts. No beeps, no video signal. I then removed everything one by one, but still no beeps (the pc-speaker has been tested and does work) or any change in reaction from mobo when power-on. Even removing the mobo battery and/or the cpu doesn't change a thing (if hd is connected it still powers-up) I have checked the voltages from the psu after I turned on the power and the mobo gets 3.3V, +5V, -5V, +12V, -12V and "Power good"(5V) from psu as described in the mobo manual. My conclusion: the bios is dead and that's why I doesn't get any error-beeps or video signal - the "power on self test" (POST) does not occur. I then bought the cheapest compatible mobo I could find (ECS K7S5A Pro), which could replace my Asus. Now the computer booted but it rebooted when Win XP tried to start. I tried to change a couple of things in bios setup and even tried to reset bios, both by taking out the battery and by using the bios reset jumper. No change - Win XP still wouldn't start. In the process of rebooting and trying to get the computer to work, it suddenly wouldn't boot at all! Exactly the same problem as befo the bios is dead (I assume that is the problem) I don't think the CPU (AMD Athlon 1000MHz) is the problem, because it worked in the beginning with the new ESC mobo. But why does my bios die when using two different mobos? Could it be my PSU that (after some time) kills the bios?? I guess I have to buy a third mobo and a new PSU and then if everything works, I have to try if I can kill the bios again with my old PSU. Please write if you have any ideas of how I can solve this!!! -- Regards Michael Stoltenborg |
#2
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:18:12 +0200, "Michael"
wrote: I've have some weird problems with my computer: A couple of weeks ago my computer wouldn't start up. (black screen, no beeps, no keyboard lights, but sound of fans and harddrives). After turning it off/on a couple of times, it worked. This problem reoccured a couple of times but suddenly I can't get it to start up at all. I removed everything so only the motherboard (Asus A7V-E, Socket A, KT133), PSU (300W), RAM (256 MB sdram), video card + monitor and one hd was left. The pc-speaker and power switch was still connected. When I turn on the psu and hit the power-switch the fans starts spinning and the hd starts. No beeps, no video signal. I then removed everything one by one, but still no beeps (the pc-speaker has been tested and does work) or any change in reaction from mobo when power-on. Even removing the mobo battery and/or the cpu doesn't change a thing (if hd is connected it still powers-up) I have checked the voltages from the psu after I turned on the power and the mobo gets 3.3V, +5V, -5V, +12V, -12V and "Power good"(5V) from psu as described in the mobo manual. Power supply failure can introduce power instability that while still giving a reasonable voltage reading. My conclusion: the bios is dead and that's why I doesn't get any error-beeps or video signal - the "power on self test" (POST) does not occur. Very unlikely. Of all the failure modes the BIOS isn't a common one, and not likely here either. Probably motherboard or power supply, though any component with a problem could prevent the POST. I then bought the cheapest compatible mobo I could find (ECS K7S5A Pro), which could replace my Asus. Now the computer booted but it rebooted when Win XP tried to start. I tried to change a couple of things in bios setup and even tried to reset bios, both by taking out the battery and by using the bios reset jumper. No change - Win XP still wouldn't start. In the process of rebooting and trying to get the computer to work, it suddenly wouldn't boot at all! What exactly do you mean? It won't POST at all? I suspect the power supply. Exactly the same problem as befo the bios is dead (I assume that is the problem) Again, not likely. You are jumping to a conclusion not supported by evidence. The easiest way to check the BIOS chip would be to remove it (if possible) and try reading it in another (device). The odds of the problem being the BIOS chip are so slight that I don't feel it's even worth checking or considering at this point. I don't think the CPU (AMD Athlon 1000MHz) is the problem, because it worked in the beginning with the new ESC mobo. But why does my bios die when using two different mobos? Could it be my PSU that (after some time) kills the bios?? Not likely. It might kill the REST of the motherboard, but most likely it's just the power supply that died, your first motherboard is probably fine. Due to variations in motherboard design and power usage, a failing, borderline power supply might not work at all on one board then barely work on another... since your power supply had apparently, recently reached this borderline state which prompted the replacement motherboard, it's even more likely. I guess I have to buy a third mobo and a new PSU and then if everything works, I have to try if I can kill the bios again with my old PSU. Please write if you have any ideas of how I can solve this!!! I would try to get my hands on another power supply.. borrow one if you can. It's quite possible that the first motherboard works fine still, that you don't need the new one and might see if it can be returned. You never mentioned the make/model of power supply. Dave |
#3
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Power supply failure can introduce power instability that while still
giving a reasonable voltage reading. My conclusion: the bios is dead and that's why I doesn't get any error-beeps or video signal - the "power on self test" (POST) does not occur. Very unlikely. Of all the failure modes the BIOS isn't a common one, and not likely here either. Probably motherboard or power supply, though any component with a problem could prevent the POST. But even if it is not the bios that is the problem, it still seems like something permanent is broken on the motherboards. The new mobo worked in the beginning and now is has the exact same problem as the old one. I would try to get my hands on another power supply.. borrow one if you can. It's quite possible that the first motherboard works fine still, that you don't need the new one and might see if it can be returned. I will try to borrow a psu tonight and try both mobos. The new motherboard can be returned within 14 days so that is not a problem. You never mentioned the make/model of power supply. It's a Silent Systems Q-Tech 300W ATX, almost 2 years old. -- Michael |
#4
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"Michael" wrote in message ...
A couple of weeks ago my computer wouldn't start up. (black screen, no beeps, no keyboard lights, but sound of fans and harddrives). After turning it off/on a couple of times, it worked. This problem reoccured a couple of times but suddenly I can't get it to start up at all. I have checked the voltages from the psu after I turned on the power and the mobo gets 3.3V, +5V, -5V, +12V My conclusion: the bios is dead I then bought the cheapest compatible mobo I could find (ECS K7S5A Pro), which could replace my Asus. Now the computer booted but it rebooted when Win XP tried to start. In the process of rebooting and trying to get the computer to work, it suddenly wouldn't boot at all! Exactly the same problem as befo the bios is dead (I assume that is the problem) I don't think the CPU (AMD Athlon 1000MHz) is the problem, because it worked in the beginning with the new ESC mobo. I can understand 1 BIOS failing but 2? Unlikely. And with many motherboards the keyboard lights will blink even without a valid BIOS or even without a CPU installed. You need to look at what changed and what didn't change with the two motherboards: CPU, memory, keyboard, power supply, and you. The first three things didn't burn up with the Asus so I doubt they burned up with the ECS. It's possible that you damaged both motherboards with static in the process of trying to get them to work, but I somehow doubt that, too. And if you have a halfway decent 300W power supply (large OEM, like Delta, Astec, Newton, or quality brand, like Antec, Fortron/Sparkle and not absolute garbage, like Deer, Q-Tec, Achieve, or A+GPB) it should be good enough, unless it's developed a fault, such as a burnt resistor or worn electrolytic capacitor. Just how did you measure the voltages? They have to be checked with an accurate meter (about any digtal meter) and under realistic load (working motherboard will do). |
#5
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Just how did you measure the voltages? They have to be checked with
an accurate meter (about any digtal meter) and under realistic load (working motherboard will do). I used a digital multimeter to detect the voltages at the 16 (i power pins on the back of the motherboard when the mobo was turned on (only cpu connected). But I guess the psu still could be unstable even if the voltages seems to be ok, as someone else has mentioned. One of my friends came up with an idea, that it could be an evil virus that has infected both my bios's. Is that possible?? I mean a virus that makes my computer unable to boot? It would explain that the computer works for some time before it suddenly stops working (it worked fine for 1½ year with the asus board, and I was able to boot with the new motherboard for about an hour) -- Michael |
#6
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Hi Michael
I had the same problem (actually twice), and it was the video card. I am using a PNY TI-4200. They replaced it once and just sent the replacement back yesterday. Bob "Michael" wrote in message ... I've have some weird problems with my computer: A couple of weeks ago my computer wouldn't start up. (black screen, no beeps, no keyboard lights, but sound of fans and harddrives). After turning it off/on a couple of times, it worked. This problem reoccured a couple of times but suddenly I can't get it to start up at all. I removed everything so only the motherboard (Asus A7V-E, Socket A, KT133), PSU (300W), RAM (256 MB sdram), video card + monitor and one hd was left. The pc-speaker and power switch was still connected. When I turn on the psu and hit the power-switch the fans starts spinning and the hd starts. No beeps, no video signal. I then removed everything one by one, but still no beeps (the pc-speaker has been tested and does work) or any change in reaction from mobo when power-on. Even removing the mobo battery and/or the cpu doesn't change a thing (if hd is connected it still powers-up) I have checked the voltages from the psu after I turned on the power and the mobo gets 3.3V, +5V, -5V, +12V, -12V and "Power good"(5V) from psu as described in the mobo manual. My conclusion: the bios is dead and that's why I doesn't get any error-beeps or video signal - the "power on self test" (POST) does not occur. I then bought the cheapest compatible mobo I could find (ECS K7S5A Pro), which could replace my Asus. Now the computer booted but it rebooted when Win XP tried to start. I tried to change a couple of things in bios setup and even tried to reset bios, both by taking out the battery and by using the bios reset jumper. No change - Win XP still wouldn't start. In the process of rebooting and trying to get the computer to work, it suddenly wouldn't boot at all! Exactly the same problem as befo the bios is dead (I assume that is the problem) I don't think the CPU (AMD Athlon 1000MHz) is the problem, because it worked in the beginning with the new ESC mobo. But why does my bios die when using two different mobos? Could it be my PSU that (after some time) kills the bios?? I guess I have to buy a third mobo and a new PSU and then if everything works, I have to try if I can kill the bios again with my old PSU. Please write if you have any ideas of how I can solve this!!! -- Regards Michael Stoltenborg |
#7
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:10:31 +0200, "Michael"
wrote: Just how did you measure the voltages? They have to be checked with an accurate meter (about any digtal meter) and under realistic load (working motherboard will do). I used a digital multimeter to detect the voltages at the 16 (i power pins on the back of the motherboard when the mobo was turned on (only cpu connected). But I guess the psu still could be unstable even if the voltages seems to be ok, as someone else has mentioned. One of my friends came up with an idea, that it could be an evil virus that has infected both my bios's. Is that possible?? I mean a virus that makes my computer unable to boot? It would explain that the computer works for some time before it suddenly stops working (it worked fine for 1½ year with the asus board, and I was able to boot with the new motherboard for about an hour) Evil viri? Odds are it isn't the BIOS, by any method. Now of course you could be the first person to ever have this happen, or a wicked wife that slides around on the carpet and zaps your stuff, but I would focus on the most likely problems first, uhh, unless you CATCH the wife doing it ;-) |
#8
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:47:19 +0200, "Michael"
wrote: Power supply failure can introduce power instability that while still giving a reasonable voltage reading. My conclusion: the bios is dead and that's why I doesn't get any error-beeps or video signal - the "power on self test" (POST) does not occur. Very unlikely. Of all the failure modes the BIOS isn't a common one, and not likely here either. Probably motherboard or power supply, though any component with a problem could prevent the POST. But even if it is not the bios that is the problem, it still seems like something permanent is broken on the motherboards. The new mobo worked in the beginning and now is has the exact same problem as the old one. We don't know yet that the motherboards have any problem whatsoever, at least not from the testing you've told us about. Both boards could be working 100% but the power supply is bad. That is most likely since the 2nd board is brand-new but not DOA. However, certainly the worst-case scenario would be that the power supply is killing boards, but again I don't think it's the BIOS that's being killed. Consider that perhaps the new board used different voltage rails for some functions, or simply that it's got fresh capacitors and a slightly better operation due to that... If the old board had progressed from working to not working, solely because the power supply was degrading gradually, then this new board BARELY worked when you first tried it, but as the power supply further degrades even the new board won't work... you could easily have two good motherboards there, only a bad power supply. I would try to get my hands on another power supply.. borrow one if you can. It's quite possible that the first motherboard works fine still, that you don't need the new one and might see if it can be returned. I will try to borrow a psu tonight and try both mobos. The new motherboard can be returned within 14 days so that is not a problem. While you have the old power supply removed, after it's sat for an hour, open it up, inspect it, particularly the capacitors around the output wiring harness and the diodes, resistors. Also if it has a sleeve-bearing fan, now might be a good time to oil it (if you hadn't done so already, and if the power supply isn't the problem.). You never mentioned the make/model of power supply. It's a Silent Systems Q-Tech 300W ATX, almost 2 years old. It's a mid-to-low end power supply, so if it really ran silent, that is that it had low-airflow, it's probably dead because of that. There's no free lunch when it comes to silence, 2 years is a reasonable lifespan for a power supply that ran too hot. For a silent power supply to be good it has to have oversized heatsinks and be built to a similar design as higher-wattage power supplies, so it's essentially running far under capacity. If possible you might also try underclocking the system, see if that helps. Along the same line of thought (reducing power usage), keep the system stripped down to minimal, essential parts, and swap in a different video card if the current card is high-performance. Minimal parts would include CPU, 1 memory module, CPU fan, video card.... nothing else is needed to test post. Then progressively add back parts, like keyboard, mouse, and one drive (HDD) to run windows testing IF it works underclocked. If I were guessing though, I'd guess it's a capacitor in the power supply. Dave |
#9
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I had the same problem (actually twice), and it was the video card. I am
using a PNY TI-4200. They replaced it once and just sent the replacement back yesterday. I've tried with two video-cards on both the motherboards and it didn't help But thanks anyway... -- m |
#10
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We don't know yet that the motherboards have any problem whatsoever,
at least not from the testing you've told us about. Both boards could be working 100% but the power supply is bad. That is most likely since the 2nd board is brand-new but not DOA. However, certainly the worst-case scenario would be that the power supply is killing boards, but again I don't think it's the BIOS that's being killed. Now, I have tried with a power supply from another computer and still same (or none) results. The setup was again motherboard with CPU (always with fan), one RAM block, video card (tried two different), one harddrive. Consider that perhaps the new board used different voltage rails for some functions, or simply that it's got fresh capacitors and a slightly better operation due to that... If the old board had progressed from working to not working, solely because the power supply was degrading gradually, then this new board BARELY worked when you first tried it, but as the power supply further degrades even the new board won't work... you could easily have two good motherboards there, only a bad power supply. Well, it still seems like something is wrong with the motherboards, but maybe caused by the bad power supply in the first case. Today I'm returning my new motherboard and will hopefulle get another new one. I will then borrow a power supply and see if I can everything to run. It's a Silent Systems Q-Tech 300W ATX, almost 2 years old. It's a mid-to-low end power supply, so if it really ran silent, that is that it had low-airflow, it's probably dead because of that. There's no free lunch when it comes to silence, 2 years is a reasonable lifespan for a power supply that ran too hot. For a silent power supply to be good it has to have oversized heatsinks and be built to a similar design as higher-wattage power supplies, so it's essentially running far under capacity. Hmm. I thought it was ok, because it was twice as expensive as a normal cheap one. If it is the power supply, which is causing these problems, then I guess I have to invest in a new one. Any good suggestions?? (not too expensive, I would rather live with some noise at my current economical situation). -- M |
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