Question about backups with Ghost

"Rod Speed" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR - either
automatically or as a user-indicated option. Wanting a clone
that doesn't have an MBR that will boot it is an exceptional - even
pathological - case, so any utility worth its salt will copy the MBR.

Not necessarily, particularly with those which can
clone just a partition, not the entire physical drive.


What is "not necessarily"? -

1) Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR -
either automatically or as a user-indicated option.

2) Wanting a clone that doesn't have an MBR that will boot it
is an exceptional case.

3) any utility worth its salt will [can] copy the MBR.


*TimDaniels*

"Rod Speed" does his "mangled" dance:
Thats just plain wrong too.
Wrong again.
Utterly mangled all over again.
That last is utterly mangled all over again.


Anyone can say "mangled", but anyone can
also test to see if what I wrote is "mangled" or not.
Anyone willing to try it will see that what I wrote is true.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy Daniels wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Timothy Daniels wrote

Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR - either
automatically or as a user-indicated option.

Thats wrong too, xxcopy doesnt.

Wanting a clone that doesn't have an MBR that will boot it is an
exceptional - even pathological - case, so any utility worth its salt
will copy the MBR.

Not necessarily, particularly with those which can
clone just a partition, not the entire physical drive.

What is "not necessarily"? -

That last bit of yours.

1) Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR -
either automatically or as a user-indicated option.

2) Wanting a clone that doesn't have an MBR that will boot it
is an exceptional case.

3) any utility worth its salt will [can] copy the MBR.

That one. Particularly with those which can clone
just a partition, not the entire physical drive.

"Rod Speed" wrote:
The only thing he has to do is unplug or depower
the C drive for the first boot of the D drive. He can plug
it back in again or repower it after XP has booted...


I've found that de-powering the "parent" drive to isolate
the clone doesn't always work if the drives are on the same
IDE channel - the BIOS sometimes doesn't get past POST
to find all the drives and it just hangs. But if the drives are on
*different* IDE channels (i.e. different cables), the BIOS will
always find the drives and boot-up proceeds. So if the drives
are on the same channel (same cable), the *reliable* way to
render the "parent" invisible is to disconnect both the power
and the data cables of the "parent" drive. You mileage may vary
with IDE controller and BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy Daniels desperately attempted to bull****
its way out of its predicament and fooled absolutely no one at all, as
always.
Rod Speed wrote

Thats just plain wrong too.
Wrong again.
Utterly mangled all over again.
That last is utterly mangled all over again.

Anyone can say "mangled",

Anyone can bull**** their way out of their
predicament better than that pathetic effort, too.

but anyone can also test to see if what I wrote is "mangled" or not.

And when they do, they'll prove that you utterly mangled what I
said you utterly mangled and got wrong what I said you got wrong.

Anyone willing to try it will see that what I wrote is true.

Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant drug crazed fantasyland, child.

Most obviously with bios that dont allow you to specify
more than just the master on the primary IDE to boot from.

"Rod Speed" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote
Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR - either
automatically or as a user-indicated option.

Thats wrong too, xxcopy doesnt.

So use xxClone: http://www.xxclone.com/iwhatis.htm


What is "not necessarily"? -
3) any utility worth its salt will [can] copy the MBR.

That one. Particularly with those which can clone
just a partition, not the entire physical drive.


Name a cloning utility that cannot copy the MBR.
Ghost (and its predecessor, Drive Image) can clone
a single partition and it gives the user the option of
copying the MBR. Casper XP can also clone a single
partition and it copies the MBR automatically. xxClone
can also copy a single partition and it also copies the
MBR. True Image cannot clone a single partition directly,
so what it does about the MBR is irrelevant.

*TimDaniels*

"Rod Speed" wrote:
Most obviously with bios that dont allow you to specify
more than just the master on the primary IDE to boot from.


How many major manufacturers of systems or motherboards
have a BIOS that requires the boot drive to be the Master on
IDE channel 0 and nowhere else? Even my 450MHz Dell
Dimension, built in January of 1999 can boot from any hard
drive that is connected. Where do you get your PCs -
Goodwill?

*TimDaniels*

Timothy Daniels wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Timothy Daniels wrote

Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR -
either automatically or as a user-indicated option.

Thats wrong too, xxcopy doesnt.

So use xxClone: http://www.xxclone.com/iwhatis.htm

That was a comment on your ANY UTILITY claim.

Its just plain wrong.

What is "not necessarily"? -
3) any utility worth its salt will [can] copy the MBR.

That one. Particularly with those which can clone
just a partition, not the entire physical drive.

Name a cloning utility that cannot copy the MBR.

xxcopy is one obvious example.

There are some that can just clone a partition, not a physical
drive. I havent bothered to keep track of them because they
are too crude and incapable to be of any interest to me.

Ghost (and its predecessor, Drive Image) can clone a single partition and
it gives the user the option of copying the MBR. Casper XP can also
clone a single partition and it copies the MBR automatically. xxClone
can also copy a single partition and it also copies the MBR. True Image
cannot clone a single partition directly, so what it does about the MBR
is irrelevant.

Irrelevant to whether there are some that
dont do anything about the MBR at all.

Timothy Daniels wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Most obviously with bios that dont allow you to specify
more than just the master on the primary IDE to boot from.

How many major manufacturers of systems or motherboards have a BIOS that
requires the boot drive to be the Master on IDE channel 0 and nowhere
else?

I havent bothered to count them. And its irrelevant to the
FACT that your original is just plain wrong on that anyway.

Even my 450MHz Dell Dimension, built in January of 1999 can boot from any
hard drive that is connected.

Irrelevant to the FACT that your
original is just plain wrong on that.

Where do you get your PCs

I assemble them mostly from new parts, but then
I have been doing that since the days when you
were still loading your diapers thanks, child.

- Goodwill?

Bit hard, we dont actually have any of those.

"Rod Speed" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote
Any utility that will clone a drive will also copy the MBR - either
automatically or as a user-indicated option.

Thats wrong too, xxcopy doesnt.

So use xxClone: http://www.xxclone.com/iwhatis.htm


What is "not necessarily"? -
3) any utility worth its salt will [can] copy the MBR.

That one. Particularly with those which can clone
just a partition, not the entire physical drive.



"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
. ..
Name a cloning utility that cannot copy the MBR.
Ghost (and its predecessor, Drive Image) can clone
a single partition and it gives the user the option of
copying the MBR. Casper XP can also clone a single
partition and it copies the MBR automatically. xxClone
can also copy a single partition and it also copies the
MBR. True Image cannot clone a single partition directly,
so what it does about the MBR is irrelevant.

*TimDaniels*


Tim:
Let me cite some of my experiences using disk imaging programs to directly
clone the contents of one HD to another HD and how, for the most significant
part, they parallel your experiences with one or two exceptions. And, of
course, we're speaking about PATA drives here...

1. As I think you know from our past exchanges, I primarily use the Ghost
2003 disk imaging program to perform direct disk-to-disk cloning operations
although I have used other DI programs as well, chiefly the Acronis True
Image version 8 program. So my comments pretty much refer to the use of
those programs in this area.

2. I most certainly agree with you that it is important, if not crucial, for
the user to disconnect the source disk immediately following the cloning
operation and make that initial boot with only the newly-cloned HD
connected. Future boot problems with that cloned drive may (but not
*always*) occur if the preceding is not adhered to. At least that has been
our experience with the Ghost & ATI programs, and from reports that I've
received from those who have used other DI programs, the same potential
problem can occur. (BTW, we have run into the same problem with SATA
drives). Incidentally, this potential problem can occur even if the BIOS
boot order priority was changed to make that initial boot from the cloned HD
while both the source & destination drives were connected at the time of the
initial boot to the cloned HD. The important thing is to disconnect the
source disk before the initial boot to the newly-cloned HD.

3. However, we have never encountered a subsequent boot problem with the
cloned HD if it later was connected as a secondary drive. At least I can't
recall a single problem in this area. Again, as long as the *initial* boot
with that cloned HD had been undertaken with the source drive disconnected
as indicated above, it didn't matter that the cloned drive was, at one time
or another, later used as a secondary drive. We've always been able to boot
to that cloned drive at some subsequent time either with the source HD
disconnected or a change in the BIOS boot order should both drives be
connected at the time of that boot.

In this connection - we're assuming two bootable HDs in the machine - our
experience with modern motherboards - let's say about the past five years -
has been (with rare exceptions) that regardless of the IDE channel (or its
position on that channel) that a bootable HD is connected to, the system
will boot to that drive if it's the only bootable HD currently present in
the system. (A BIOS item change is sometimes necessary to facilitate this
action). I'm not sure if your experience has been different from mine in
this area.
Anna