Kyle Bennett (HardOCP) blasts NVIDIA

OverKlocker wrote:
one point is 'yes' ati has done this as well. another would be that
nvidia seems to be doing it alot with their new product (5900 ultra).
i dont have my new issue of maximumPC here, but some of you prob read
the article which basically shows that by removing the 'optimizations'
the nvidia card takes ALOT bigger hit on preformance than the ati
card. that kinda struck me as funny, since maximumPC is now showing
both cards as their 'high end' choices.

From what I can tell, there seems to be little difference between the two
very top end cards. Right below that, though, the various Radeon offerings
seem to offer more for the money.

--
chainbreaker

I'd prefer to see ATI and nVidia stay in competition to keep prices down and
viable alternatives for each other's products. I loved my TNT and the TNT2U
that replaced it but I've been an ATI fan since my 32mb RadeonLE (screamed
with registry hack and oc).

Mike

"chrisv" wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2003 11:26:28 -0700, (Radeon350) wrote:

The bottom line is this. NVIDIA has broken a sacred trust between
themselves and the community and unless they get their issues together
very quickly and address them, I have a feeling that many more of you
will not be buying their products. NVIDIA?s current line of cards is
very strong and they look to be good products, but as a consumer I
would personally have a hard time giving them my money right now. The
only real power we consumers have is to vote with our wallets.

Nvidia has always been a bunch of slime. All the way back to their
successful FUD campaign against 3dfx. It's good to see them getting
their asses kicked.

He did say the current FX cards were very strong. Speaking out of bth sides of
his mouth or afraid to completely burn his bridges?Hmm.

Kyle Bennett is a complete ****wit at the best of times. Given his past
record on his childish rants his opinions count for nothing.

Translation: he slammed Nvidia so he doesn't know what he's talking about,
once he praises Nvidia again he'll be a clear/logical thinker who deserves
praise.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:06:33 GMT, "Mike P"
wrote:

I'd prefer to see ATI and nVidia stay in competition to keep prices down and
viable alternatives for each other's products. I loved my TNT and the TNT2U
that replaced it but I've been an ATI fan since my 32mb RadeonLE (screamed
with registry hack and oc).

that was my first 'mainstream' ati card. it was rockin... then went to
an 8500 64mb, then an 8500 128mb, and now a 9700pro (all BBA)

From what I can tell, there seems to be little difference between the two
very top end cards. Right below that, though, the various Radeon offerings
seem to offer more for the money.

i like the 'more bang fer yer buck' option. that is why i also like
AMD... (but if i had the money... a 3.2P4 would be really nice...LOL)

"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
He did say the current FX cards were very strong. Speaking out of bth
sides of
his mouth or afraid to completely burn his bridges?Hmm.



You tell me, isn't OCP and nvidia going to be working closely together at
quakecon in dallas this year? At the OCP workshop, or whatever it's called.

The whole enthusiasts online press sucks ass.

"Derek Wildstar" wrote in message
et...

"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
He did say the current FX cards were very strong. Speaking out of bth
sides of
his mouth or afraid to completely burn his bridges?Hmm.



You tell me, isn't OCP and nvidia going to be working closely together at
quakecon in dallas this year? At the OCP workshop, or whatever it's
called.

His editorial kinda made me wonder if he wasn't sticking his neck out a
little too far on the chopping block of PR, even if he did make some valid
points (some of which I agree with). The cynic in me says he's "whoring for
publicity by typical ****stirring 101" (the bigger cynic thinks it's one of
these "any publicity is good publicity" things for Nvidia, and that they can
now set the stage for looking like heroes meeting everyone's expectations by
enabling features that shouldn't have been disabled in the first place once
they're able to get around the performance hit a little with another angle
of spoogery, or God forbid actual valid optimizations) but there's a lot of
things he said that were right on target (and should have been common
knowledge awhile ago). OTOH, dropping the toast on the buttered side isn't
exactly a good thing to do on the dorm kitchen floor...but it did make me
feel good to see SOMEONE out there wallowing thru the muck of hardware
journalism with a big enough pair to say their piece without worrying so
much about the payola...almost makes up for that Jayson Blair-inspired
article of his about the P4 3-gig release...;-)


The whole enthusiasts online press sucks ass.

Damn, Derek! Did I just see this coming out of you? ...


....There's hope for the world yet! ;-)

"Derek Wildstar" wrote in message
et...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:aAz_a.94972$cF.28702@rwcrnsc53...

His editorial kinda made me wonder if he wasn't sticking his neck out a
little too far on the chopping block of PR, even if he did make some
valid
points (some of which I agree with).

While he does enjoy the sticky-floored demographic in readership, which
applauds this type of outburst, they don't pay his bills. Those twitchy
ad-banners and ridiculous mouse pad thingys do. Like anyone in Press PR is
going to bother with him anymore. Not because he raises 'issues', but
because he's a pandering simpleton, pandering to the fickle loyalty of the
immature gamer.

Just making his fan club happy, I suppose...pandering to this mindset
doesn't necessarily lose anyone any money or readership. It also helps sell
games and hardware. Nvidia doesn't do this as well? Come on now! What did
P.T. Barnum say? ;^)

So why indeed is he wagging his finger at nvidia, for such trivial issues?
It's a goddamn driver issue when all is said and done. Why not instead
take
them to task for making the abortion FX5200,

They had to do something with those bottom-binned FX chips that failed more
than one pipeline here and there, and besides, the 5200 is a shoo-in MX
replacement, incremential improvement though it may be. The driver issues
with the FX *should have* really been taken care of before gold date, now
don't you think? Someone is gonna shell out top dollar for a card to find
out their trilinear filtering doesn't do what it's s'pota in one of their
favorite games, when the competition (ATI, natch) can offer proper
functionality here as well as better performance at a lesser price? That is
hardly an unimportant point. The fact it *has yet to be fixed* by a driver
release, and the IMNSHO unacceptable shortcuts Nvidia is using to try to get
back to the top in the meantime while this issue is not being fixed really
says something about the focus of the company...

or not being 'more' competitive
with ATI,

I think we covered this angle awhile ago, now didn't we? Seems you sat on a
different side of the fence than "more competitive"...

or their abysmal nforce drivers.

I'll bite. What's so bad about the Nforce drivers?

And another thing: the integrated graphics are not bad at all...maybe the 2d
image quality is right down there with the GF3, but it runs Q3 at just over
100 FPS at 1024x768x32 max detail. That may not be much compared to even a
GF2U, but it is nonetheless quite respectable for onboard video...with an
older Athlon Tbird mitten-warmer that originally ran at 11x100 (now 7x166),
no less. The original UT averages over 70 FPS during gameplay at the same
res. and bit depth using the OpenGL renderer in "utglr23.zip", with S3TC
enabled. UT '03 is even quite playable at 800x600. A far cry from this
VIA/S3 and Intel onboard crap, even anything from ATI so far (and what does
ATI offer for a decent chipset?). The Nforce 2 integrated platform is the
best integrated platform going for all-around use. Especially for the price.

Instead of focusing on these
pickyune issues. Yes, he has points, but they smack of rearranging the
deck
chairs on the titanic.

The [H]orde has to sit somewhere and watch the water rising, don't they? ;-)
And I'm not so sure about the "sinking ship" aspect of this metaphor. I
would say Nvidia's situation is more like the USS Cole, only the hole was
blown from within by someone playing medicine ball with live torpedoes when
they should have been racking and counting them...and if you don't think
opinions like Kyle's and their aftereffects don't affect sales in any way,
guess again. He's right on about the trust issue. As far as 3DMarket goes,
I've been saying practically the same thing he has from the beginning. And
it certainly does nothing to improve Nvidia's image by first publicly
decrying Futuremark and then hopping enthusiastically back into the sack
with them...things that make you go "Hmmmm..."

Trust is a wonderful thing...

The whole enthusiasts online press sucks ass.

Damn, Derek! Did I just see this coming out of you? ...


We are discussing an opinion thread, no? Therefore I can opine without
being
out of character.

Oh, sure! I get like that too sometimes...but it sounded like...like
something Kyle might say! ;-)
God forbid you should be human as the rest of us, I suppose, though for all
I know, you're just a bunch of text strings... ;-)

Bit-Death to OCP and their semi-literate readership! Long live EE! I'm
embarassed Kyle is from Texas! Shame on you!

Me? Now whatever for? I am just stating my opinion, after all...

http://www.eetimes.com/

Yeah, EE Times is a much better read than the [H]...but there are
nonetheless a few worthwhile tidbits therein if you can get beyond the
editorializing and pandering fluff and other such lack of objectivity at
times. This is actually one editorial he spewed out that I can actually read
and agree with the majority therein. Came as a little surprise...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:5oG_a.141239$Ho3.17332@sccrnsc03...



They had to do something with those bottom-binned FX chips that failed
more
than one pipeline here and there, and besides, the 5200 is a shoo-in MX
replacement, incremential improvement though it may be.

I'll work with you on that entirely reasonable idea, however, here's a
notable problem..once you actually embed the 5200 in a chipset, say goodbye
to that add-in card's sales. Of course, they are crafty enough to only
implement that embedding action once the [lack of] sales for the 5200
justify it. Either way, it's two turkey's in a row for them, and so close to
thanksgiving too.



The driver issues with the FX *should have* really been taken care of
before gold date, now
don't you think?

Absolutely, and I'll do you one better than the filtering silliness, lack of
2d panels in FS2004:Cof on the FX series of cards due to additional driver
irregularities. And, since this problem persisted to the retail release, I
can tell you it was identified ages ago (several weeks prior to release) and
nvidia sat on it much to the detriment of simmers who lacked the luck or
foresight to *not* pick up the aforementioned bogus FX card.


I think we covered this angle awhile ago, now didn't we? Seems you sat on
a
different side of the fence than "more competitive"...

Unlike our mutual irritant, Kyle, I'm not a fair weather complainer. I still
support NV and like their products, and will continue to buy them. They are
really in a world of hurt right now, losing mindshare, losing
contracts...Xbox 2 + ATI = lower stock price, losing focus.

There is a lot to like with their products, the 5600 ultra is posied to be
the next GeForce4 4600, which was/is probably the best DX7/8 card around.
Their mobo chipsets are a huge success, and if they ever get back to basics,
like solid engineering, they will continue winning OEM contracts which will
give them the luxury of titilating the enthusiast market, which you might
recall, is the bugaboo of these video card companies. That was you I chatted
with about that, right? There are so many 'Dave's' running about.


I'll bite. What's so bad about the Nforce drivers?

Many things, the last two releases have been recalled (by rolling back
certain internal elements, note the revision numbers) due to creating more
problems than they solved, and some of the most siginificant probelms a
incompatibility with Nero, loss of HDD data, shutdown issues,
incompatibility with NTFS in WinXP, failure to recognize safedisc protected
CD's, total failure of the IDE miniport driver.

While the number of installations experiencing problems is unacceptably high
(I've seen three distinct issues on four NF2 PC's), it's not enough to
cripple the chipset, and I have high hopes they can finally satisfy
completely in this area. The NF2 is already a more robust performer than the
brand new KT600 and they are negotiating with intel for the P4 platform as
well.



And another thing: the integrated graphics are not bad at all...

Oh stop. As if you really play those creaky antiques any more. Or at those
15" monitor resoluitons.



it certainly does nothing to improve Nvidia's image by first publicly
decrying Futuremark and then hopping enthusiastically back into the sack
with them...things that make you go "Hmmmm..."

I know that tune, and I'll join you in the 2nd verse when Kyle heaps praise
on nvidia again, shall we set a date on it? Perhaps when the Det 50's are
released? Or maybe the next silicon refresh. He's now backed himself into a
corner: Either forever malign nvidia and look petty, or backpedal when his
earth shattering issues of 'trust' and 'noblesse oblige' of the graphic card
designers dissolve with the next batch of hardware or software that fix
those issues (and create new ones! fun.)



Yeah, EE Times is a much better read than the [H]...but there are
nonetheless a few worthwhile tidbits therein if you can get beyond the
editorializing and pandering fluff and other such lack of objectivity at
times. This is actually one editorial he spewed out that I can actually
read
and agree with the majority therein. Came as a little surprise...


Raise your standards dear boy. While I too sometimes enjoy the IT-Queen
peevishness that Kyle oozes like a drunken sailor in denial, there's only so
much heat sink fan reviews and links to 'round-ups' of 18 month old hardware
in some cowboy's rodeo I can stand. Not to mention his insistent links to
those terminally unfunny comics. Oh right, anything that has an [H] in it is
instantly hilarious.

Wouldn't it be funny if the only readers of OCP were merely rubberneckers?
Oh, the [H]umanity.

Yeah well that's the problm isn't it? These guys have to work together so they
really can't say or do things that are irrevicable. Although,Kyle did have some
pretty strong words,he left himself an out. Although someone does need to
inform the public of what's available and how it stacks up. It's just too bad
so much ad money is involved. Dawg

He did say the current FX cards were very strong. Speaking out of bth
sides of
his mouth or afraid to completely burn his bridges?Hmm.



You tell me, isn't OCP and nvidia going to be working closely together at
quakecon in dallas this year? At the OCP workshop, or whatever it's called.

The whole enthusiasts online press sucks ass.