warehouse club warning

leo wrote:
measekite wrote:



Ron Hunter wrote:

SamSez wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
Walmart, I
expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
sticker, etc.

I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

When you label them identically, the consumer has every
expectation that
the same stuff is inside.




did the wrappers look similar,
or were the product numbers the same?

many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.





The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
similar but
not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
level of
sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
prescription
drugs, I dare you...]

Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
window on
Ilford's website.

As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth
Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
Professional Inkjet
Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?




Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.




I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
sooner or later they would get caught.



Still Iiford should use a different name when they have that much
difference in materials. Like many mattress companies selling basically
the same mattress with different names and patterns. Ilford's liable to
make such a confusion. I seriously doubt Sams Club would care if it's
called something else as long as the big Ilford name is there. And most
people working there and shoppers don't know much about paper, unlike
us, the educated consumers.

Also, most customers wouldn't know the difference unless they has
purchased the product before any change.


--
Ron Hunter

SamSez wrote:

Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
To do less courts disappointment.

Sorry Ron, but when the name on the box is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL, what more can
you 'know' short of opening the package?

Out of curiosity have you looked carefully at the box for a product number you can
compare? Why a company with a known name like Ilford would allow an inferior product
to be sold with exactly the same name puzzles me somewhat. My cynical side figures
they know some people will get burned, but believe their bottom line will still
benefit from the extra sales to the budget crowd. Come to think of it, the rest of me
thinks that way nowadays, too.

I once bought 3 disposable cameras that had both the Fujifilm and Walmart brands on
the package intending to use them in an underwater camera housing that was supposed
to take Fujifilm disposables. Apparently the Walmart version was a slightly different
size, so the controls didn't quite work. I have no idea what else might have been
different, and I don't think the price was much different than any other place I
might have gone.

To their credit, Walmart refunded the price for all 3, even though I had managed a
couple of shots on one and opened all 3. Initially the manager of the camera
department said he couldn't accept them since he wouldn't be able to sell them, but
after a bit of bitching another manager told the returns desk help to step on them
and say they were broken when the customer opened them if need be. Since the counter
was under a sign that said something about 100% customer satisfaction I don't think
they had much choice about issuing a refund.

--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

Jer wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:

SamSez wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
Walmart, I
expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
sticker, etc.

I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
that
the same stuff is inside.



did the wrappers look similar,
or were the product numbers the same?

many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.




The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
similar but
not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
level of
sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
prescription
drugs, I dare you...]

Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
window on
Ilford's website.

As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth
Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
Professional Inkjet
Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?




Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.


Considering that Walwart (Sam's) is notorious for flexing their discount
muscles with their suppliers, it seems that both could be complicit in
this deception. Walwart demands lesser quality (to force a lower price)
and Ilford complies because they're being courted by a retail discounter
with hundreds of stores full of bargain hunters and staffed by underpaid
wanks.


I doubt that Wal-mart was complicit in this case, and the average
Wal-mart employee gets $9.96/hour, plus one of the best profit sharing
plans in the business. Don't feel too sorry for them. The charges of
underpayment are made by labor unions because Wal-Mart won't put up with
their extortion.


--
Ron Hunter

SamSez wrote:
"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...

SamSez wrote:

"Marvin" wrote in message
...


Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:


"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the


This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
example.

-Joel

That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a

top-name

designer may look


similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are

differences

in the material and


the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.


I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.



Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
To do less courts disappointment.


--
Ron Hunter


Sorry Ron, but when the name on the box is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL, what more can
you 'know' short of opening the package? If you bought a box of Kellogg's Corn
Flakes at a warehouse club, what would YOU expect to be inside -- seriously?
Something different than what you buy at Piggly-Wiggly? I doubt it.


No, I wouldn't, and neither, I suspect did Sam's. It is not practical
to open every package they receive to verify that the supplier isn't
compromising quality or quantity. That's where customer feedback comes
in. I rather suspect Sam's would take action against a supplier who
didn't supply the product as agreed.


--
Ron Hunter

Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
in wrote:


Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

In article ,
measekite wrote:



The nice thing about Costco is that
they have a return policy unmatched by other.


They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.




Sams club is Walmart. I
do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
advantage of doing business with them.


You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.


Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.


Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.


Probably not. But then if you take a job, you have to know that
part-time and full-time don't get the same benefits. ALL companies try
to manage their benefits packages to assure that their business makes a
profit and is still around to pay their employees NEXT year.


--
Ron Hunter

Ron Hunter wrote:

I hate to tell you this, but Sam's doesn't make, or pack, the paper.
They specify the paper specs, and the supplier supplies them packaged as
specified, and at the agreed upon price. I seriously doubt Sam's even
examines actual shipped material to verify quality (they SHOULD).
So, who do you blame here?

Both of them. Sam's is to blame for selling a product with the same name whenthey've
specifically negotiated for a product with different specs. Ilford is to blame for
cooperating.

--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

leo wrote:

I doubt the
purchasing people (and customers) in Sams' Club really know any
difference between different papper as long as it's from a brand name
manufacturer.

You really think the purchasing agents for the world's largest retailer don't know
exactly what they're ordering in million and multi-million dollar lots?

I don't doubt for a second that most of their customers don't know the difference.

--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:56:38 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
in wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
in wrote:


Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

In article ,
measekite wrote:



The nice thing about Costco is that
they have a return policy unmatched by other.


They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.




Sams club is Walmart. I
do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
advantage of doing business with them.


You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.


Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.


Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.


Probably not. But then if you take a job, you have to know that
part-time and full-time don't get the same benefits. ALL companies try
to manage their benefits packages to assure that their business makes a
profit and is still around to pay their employees NEXT year.

Actually that is a bit deceptive. Quite a few companies do (or did at
least) try to ensure that their employees were around next year and
healthy and doing pretty well. Walmart certainly sells us the idea
that they treat their employees really well. But having policies that
ensure that they don't get health care is not treating them well. The
stockholders of a company are not the only stakeholders in that
company


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:46:34 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
in wrote:

Douglas wrote:
"Frank ess" wrote in message
...


Never mind embarrassing himself and all his country-mates, he's asssuring
himself of constant discomfort and early incapacitation and demise. He
should take my earlier advice: leave these groups and relax.


--
Frank ess


Thank you for that Frank... Our prime Minister has done the embarrassing. I
often feel ashamed to be an Australian when I see what he has done in
concert with the US.

Unfortunately if you speak up against it you get branded an embarrassing
troublemaker and if you do nothing you just become one of despicable
mongrels. Which are you Frank?

Douglas


Speaking for myself. I am a Texan, and we believe in shooting first,
and being around to ask questions later.

Funny, I thought that was the kind of idea we were crusading against.
My mistake.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

"Ron Hunter" wrote in message news:lja1e.14025 No, I
wouldn't, and neither, I suspect did Sam's. It is not practical
to open every package they receive to verify that the supplier isn't
compromising quality or quantity. That's where customer feedback comes in. I
rather suspect Sam's would take action against a supplier who didn't supply
the product as agreed.
--
Ron Hunter

There was a documentary on CNN (I believe) recently that explored how Wal-Mart
conducts business with its suppliers. After watching that I can tell you that
it is almost a certainty that Ilford solicited Wal-Mart to sell their product
and offered a wholesale price for doing so after which Wal-Mart
"counter-offered" with "We will be glad to sell your product. Here is the
wholesale price that you _will_ sell it to us for."

This non-negotiable price that Wal-Mart specifies in a very high percentage of
cases forces the supplier to cut costs somewhere to make any profit at all and I
suspect that this is what Ilford did. I agree that a change in the
name/packaging would have been a better service to the final consumer.