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#11
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First Geforce GTX 480 Review
Benjamin Gawert wrote:
So just buy 3 and an ATI card. What's the problem ? If your decision is for ATI, fine. I will go with nVidia for another reason: Because I made negative expirience with so many Catalyst driver versions I can't count. I have several PCs here, some with ATI cards and some with Nvidia cards, and the Catalyst drivers are generally not more troublesome than their Nvidia pedants. I don't know with what card and what drivers you had problems with but it is very likely that the real problem was within something else in your hard- or software. Yes, ATI had some really awful drivers for their Rage series of cards, but that was over a decade ago. The unified drivers for Radeons are really good, and if that wouldn't be the case then for sure every review of ATI gfx cards would mention how great this card is but unless the drivers get better the card is useless. This isn't the case. Go figure. "Hallo" Benjamin, yes, I would agree with you that also some nVdidia driver versions failed. But... my last expirience was related with an ATI 5770 and really annoying incompatibilities with Star Wars Battlefront II (high CPU load, but just with the ATI card), many crashs in games like WoW, Aion and even in very old games like Age of Mythology. I was also very disappointed about the (missing) speed of the card, compared to my old 9800GT AMP from Zotac (this 5770 Vapor-X was so expensive - more than 160 Euros - but wasn't more than 10-20% faster than my 9800GT in many games (I do not use high resolution nor DX11, 1440x900 with two monitors are my equipment and DX9 is my used graphics standard). So in the past, I had no real complaints about nVidia. High power consumption sucks, so nVdidia has to improve it. But if tesselation is intensively used (read more about the DX11 benchmark Unigine Heaven), GTX480 can be even faster than a 5970 ... Regards Peter |
#12
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First Geforce GTX 480 Review
Am 01.04.2010 12:17, * Peter Dassow:
yes, I would agree with you that also some nVdidia driver versions failed. But... my last expirience was related with an ATI 5770 and really annoying incompatibilities with Star Wars Battlefront II (high CPU load, but just with the ATI card), many crashs in games like WoW, Aion and even in very old games like Age of Mythology. I was also very disappointed about the (missing) speed of the card, compared to my old 9800GT AMP from Zotac I can tell you that the Radeon 5770 is perfectly compatible with the games you listed. To me this sounds very clearly that there was something else wrong with either the gfx card or your system. Often enough the reason for such problems is simply that the old drivers haven't been removed completely before the new card and new drivers were installed. Generally, no matter what gfx card you buy, you can expect that all of them work fine with games and other applications. If it doesn't then this is usually is no sign of incompatibility (even when it looks like the easiest explanation), it simply is a bright sign telling you that there is something wrong in your system. Issues aside, going from a Geforce 9800GT to a Radeon 5770 is hardly worthwile because the performance difference between them is quite small. High power consumption sucks, so nVdidia has to improve it. But if tesselation is intensively used (read more about the DX11 benchmark Unigine Heaven), GTX480 can be even faster than a 5970 ... You probably overestimate the value of tesselation (a feature that all ATI GPUs support for 9 years now). If all you do is to run the Heaven 2.0 benchmark all day then maybe a GTX 480 is the best choice (but the other issues like power, heat, noise and price are still there!). However, for real-world gaming tesselation is new, and considering that most games today are cross platform games for PCs and consoles (and more often also without the PC!) this means that tesselation will only see a mild use for the near future. And once it becomes a widely supported and heavily used feature any (at that time current) 100EUR card will easily outperform the GTX 480 with less noise and much lower power consumption. As AMD is coming up with a new line of cards in fall (which very likely will by then again outperform Nvidia's latest) it is also very likely that the GTX 470/480 will see a very short market life. I'm sure Nvidia will get their act together and come up with something better, but at the moment buying a GTX 480 would be just silly. Ben |
#13
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First Geforce GTX 480 Review
Benjamin Gawert wrote:
yes, I would agree with you that also some nVdidia driver versions failed. But... my last expirience was related with an ATI 5770 and really annoying incompatibilities with Star Wars Battlefront II (high CPU load, but just with the ATI card), many crashs in games like WoW, Aion and even in very old games like Age of Mythology. I was also very disappointed about the (missing) speed of the card, compared to my old 9800GT AMP from Zotac I can tell you that the Radeon 5770 is perfectly compatible with the games you listed. To me this sounds very clearly that there was something else wrong with either the gfx card or your system. Often enough the reason for such problems is simply that the old drivers haven't been removed completely before the new card and new drivers were installed. Generally, no matter what gfx card you buy, you can expect that all of them work fine with games and other applications. If it doesn't then this is usually is no sign of incompatibility (even when it looks like the easiest explanation), it simply is a bright sign telling you that there is something wrong in your system. That's what I call in german "frommer Wunsch" (can't translate it directly, "wishful thinking" may be). Compatibility with games is always depending from the maturity of a driver. In that case, may be it was related with the first AT catalyst driver which supports the HD5770 also. But, *I* tested it more than twice, I had *no* problems before using the HD5770, and afterwards, I had no problems too with the above mentioned games. So it *must* be related with the driver version I used, and at this time, there was no other version which supports the HD5770 (it was one version before 10.0 I remember). Usually I am always trying to get rid of the drivers of the "old" card before swapping to the new video card. So I used uninstall AND a specific nVidia driver cleaning tool. That's all you can do (or do you always reinstalling Windows just for swapping a video card ? Ridiculous...). It seems you're a convinced ATI fan, so I should try to talk about it further. Regards Peter |
#14
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First Geforce GTX 480 Review
Am 06.04.2010 12:02, * Peter Dassow:
Generally, no matter what gfx card you buy, you can expect that all of them work fine with games and other applications. If it doesn't then this is usually is no sign of incompatibility (even when it looks like the easiest explanation), it simply is a bright sign telling you that there is something wrong in your system. That's what I call in german "frommer Wunsch" (can't translate it directly, "wishful thinking" may be). No, it's not a "frommer Wunsch" (for which "wishful thinking" would indeed be the proper translation), it's simply a fact. You can be sure that AMD wouldn't sell a single card if the compatibility with games would be lacking, and it for sure would have been mentioned in any review out there. This isn't the case, so either AMD is silently and successfully bribing or threatening everyone to shut up, or the Radeon cards work perfectly fine with the games out there. Out of own experience I'd say the latter, unless you want to imply that all magazines like the German c't Magazin (which like other magazines or websites never mentioned any game compatibility issues with any ATI card of the last decade or so) have been silenced by AMD. Compatibility with games is always depending from the maturity of a driver. Not really, this comes down to driver quality and even more to how much game developers deviate from common standardized APIs. In fact, driver updates often fix problems that are actually in the games and only show up in certain circumstances. Driver maturity comes into play when new hardware has to be supported, especially when the new card uses a completely new and different architecture to the other supported cards. The result is usually a less than optimal performance, however stability problems are very rare. Therefore it is recommend to wait for at least a single subsequent driver revision being available before buying a new gfx card, irrespective of the brand. In that case, may be it was related with the first AT catalyst driver which supports the HD5770 also. But, *I* tested it more than twice, I had *no* problems before using the HD5770, and afterwards, I had no problems too with the above mentioned games. So it *must* be related with the driver version I used, Your logic is overly simplistic and narrow-minded, because you obviously just didn't change the driver but also a piece of hardware (gfx card). This alone changes a ****load of parameters which even when not seen by you are still present (and those parameters aside, it could as well have been a simple defective card which just would have needed replacement). And not every problem has to be noticable by the user, for example some memory problems might go unnoticed for years unless something in the configuration changes. and at this time, there was no other version which supports the HD5770 (it was one version before 10.0 I remember). So in short all you tried was a *single* driver release which as you say was the first version actually supporting the at that time new Radeon 5700 series cards. This very much contradicts your former statement ("I will go with nVidia for another reason: Because I made negative expirience with so many Catalyst driver versions I can't count.") which following your own other statements seems to be a blatant lie. Usually I am always trying to get rid of the drivers of the "old" card before swapping to the new video card. So I used uninstall AND a specific nVidia driver cleaning tool. That's all you can do (or do you always reinstalling Windows just for swapping a video card ? Ridiculous...). No, you don't need to re-install Windows for swapping a gfx card. But you should be sure to really remove old drivers completely, otherwise issues can arise (even when going from ATI to Nvidia). Also, software that likes to interfere with the removal process (like virus scanners or the widespread pseudo-security suites) should be deactivated beforehand, or the removal may end up being not as complete as one might think. It seems you're a convinced ATI fan, so I should try to talk about it further. No, I'm not. In fact, the majority of my computers run Nvidia cards. However, having developed quite a bit of hardware and software myself and due to my experience with a noticable amount of systems I know of the issues of both camps, and therefore I probably have a less simplistic way than "ATI is just crap", and I don't have to define myself over the brand name on the gfx card. But then, *someone* has to buy the overpriced GTX480 cards ;-) Ben |
#15
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First Geforce GTX 480 Review
Am 29.03.2010 00:59, * Steve:
Aww, throw the fanboi some crumbs. Pickings for Nvidia are mighty slim since the ATI 5000 series came out. Indeed, Nvidia probably shouldn't have killed the GTX 200 series so quickly. Ben |
#16
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Quote:
5850/5870 can. |
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