Follow-up: Computer with replacmeent CPU POSTS but doesn't boot.

Thanks all in alt.comp.hardware, especially Paul and Larry, for the
help installing my replacement cpu. It's strange that I found this
more difficult this time than when I did it about 8 years ago.

So far that is a success in that now the BIOS and POST screens show
up, and they didn't before, and the cpu isn't getting very hot .
Has't been over 129F afaik.

Of course I haven't left it on long because, alas, it doesn't boot!!

It's an ASUS A7M266 mobo with an AMD Athlon MP 1.2GHz CPU Processor
AHX1200AMS3C Award BIOS 5/12/2001-AMD_760

The display on start-up reports ACPI BIOS Revision 1004A

It reports the chip as AMD H-Series 1200MHz
It never said H-Series with the other chip.

Except this last time out of 15 to 20 times it said 900MHz !!!


I think that is the most recent BIOS but I haven't checked for years.

The previous chip had been AMD 800MHz/100MHz..


Typically , it does the memory count off, all the normal lines after
that, up to and including the PCI device listing. That entire list
displays, and then the cursor flashes underneath that, but it goes no
further.

(No "Command.com not found" or "press any key to boot from harddrive",
for example.)

Do you think this might be because this is designed as a Server CPU
and not the other kind? This CPU was only 10 dollars and I'm ready
to buy another one if I made a mistake. Even if I might have made a
mistake!


Specific examples.
The first time I turned it on, I got an errror message, went to the
Award BIOS Setup and changed the Operating Freequency to 133 Mhz from
100 MHz, in conformance iwth the the faster chip I had bought.

The second time, when the computer finished the PCI device listing,
the light on the 3 1/2 floppy stayed lit.

I redid the boot sequennce, putting the hard drive first, and removing
the 3" floppy and the network (I have no way to boot from a network
anyhow.) Again it stopped with the 3 1/2 drive lit up.

On the main page of the Setup I filled in Legacy Disektte B with 5 1/4
and the next time that drive's light stayed lit, even though it's
never been in the boot sequence. Maybe this is where it polls the
drives. I thought that was earlier when it polls the CD drives, but I
could be wrong.

So I removed both floppies from the main page, and this time neither
floppy's light turned on, but it still stopped in the same place.

I put a bootable CD in the CD drive and put the CD first in Boot
order, but the CD light only went on right befoe or after the memory
count, not when it was time to read the boot device.

The hard drive light goes on sometimes, at the very start, but not
when iit needs to read the HDD to read boot device.


Any help is greatly appreciated.

micky wrote:
Thanks all in alt.comp.hardware, especially Paul and Larry, for the
help installing my replacement cpu. It's strange that I found this
more difficult this time than when I did it about 8 years ago.

So far that is a success in that now the BIOS and POST screens show
up, and they didn't before, and the cpu isn't getting very hot .
Has't been over 129F afaik.

Of course I haven't left it on long because, alas, it doesn't boot!!

It's an ASUS A7M266 mobo with an AMD Athlon MP 1.2GHz CPU Processor
AHX1200AMS3C Award BIOS 5/12/2001-AMD_760

The display on start-up reports ACPI BIOS Revision 1004A

It reports the chip as AMD H-Series 1200MHz
It never said H-Series with the other chip.

Except this last time out of 15 to 20 times it said 900MHz !!!


I think that is the most recent BIOS but I haven't checked for years.

The previous chip had been AMD 800MHz/100MHz..


Typically , it does the memory count off, all the normal lines after
that, up to and including the PCI device listing. That entire list
displays, and then the cursor flashes underneath that, but it goes no
further.

(No "Command.com not found" or "press any key to boot from harddrive",
for example.)

Do you think this might be because this is designed as a Server CPU
and not the other kind? This CPU was only 10 dollars and I'm ready
to buy another one if I made a mistake. Even if I might have made a
mistake!


Specific examples.
The first time I turned it on, I got an errror message, went to the
Award BIOS Setup and changed the Operating Freequency to 133 Mhz from
100 MHz, in conformance iwth the the faster chip I had bought.

The second time, when the computer finished the PCI device listing,
the light on the 3 1/2 floppy stayed lit.

I redid the boot sequennce, putting the hard drive first, and removing
the 3" floppy and the network (I have no way to boot from a network
anyhow.) Again it stopped with the 3 1/2 drive lit up.

On the main page of the Setup I filled in Legacy Disektte B with 5 1/4
and the next time that drive's light stayed lit, even though it's
never been in the boot sequence. Maybe this is where it polls the
drives. I thought that was earlier when it polls the CD drives, but I
could be wrong.

So I removed both floppies from the main page, and this time neither
floppy's light turned on, but it still stopped in the same place.

I put a bootable CD in the CD drive and put the CD first in Boot
order, but the CD light only went on right befoe or after the memory
count, not when it was time to read the boot device.

The hard drive light goes on sometimes, at the very start, but not
when iit needs to read the HDD to read boot device.


Any help is greatly appreciated.

My guess at the moment, is your BIOS is too old. I don't know that
for sure though. I mean, it did try to identify the processor,
and didn't state something really stupid, so maybe it does
actually know the processor is an MP.

Palamino (Model 6) in this table, need BIOS 1007 or later. That's
what I'm basing my hunch on.

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/l...hashe did=n/a

You can check cpu-world, and look up the OPN on your
processor, but chances are your "H-series" is
Model 6 based (which is a good thing, with respect
to the support chart).

Now, the question will be, how to flash update ?

Looks like you may be purchasing another processor anyway :-)

Using that (carefully selected, compatible with
BIOS 1004) processor, you'll be flashing up to 1007
or later, then you can go back to experimenting with
the MP.

The MP may have a lower TDP, and be more cool running,
than your previous desktop processor. That would be
the main attraction. If you don't care about that,
remember to buy something that is going to work with
1004.

Alternately, if you have buckets of money to spend on
this project, have badflash.com prepare a replacement
BIOS chip, and do your BIOS upgrade that way. As long
as the BIOS chip is socketed, and you can get a part
number off it, you could arrange for badflash to
upgrade the BIOS chip for you, for a price. Then
pop out the old BIOS chip, and install the new one.
The motherboard is so old, the chip type is
a 32 pin DIP (dual inline package). The chip is
just below the three ribbon cable connectors, so
have a look and see if the chip is sitting in a
socket. If the chip is soldered right into the
board, that makes it worse for chip swapping as
an option (you'd need a soldering iron, and
solder wick or solder puller).

You can see under the BIOS tab here, there are
still four BIOS for download, with 1008.02b
being the latest (2002.09.12).

http://support.asus.com/download.asp... ashedid=n%2fa

With respect to the "900" versus "1200" thing,
don't panic. Your processor has a multiplier
of x9, and the two rates, come from a CPU
input clock of 100MHz or 133MHz. If you're
in JumperFree mode, then the BIOS can change
the clock speed, based on when the motherboard
"crashes". The processor may be nominal 133,
but they slow down to 100 if the board is
perceived to have crashed.

Using the DSCKF dip switch, you can also force
the motherboard to use the same clock value
(133) all the time, in "Jumper Mode". That is
controlled by the JEN jumper. If you force
the clock, then it shouldn't matter how many
times the motherboard crashes, each time it
starts, it'll run at the rate set by the
DSCKF four switch block.

I'd concentrate on getting it to boot first.
Once it's stable, then it will likely
stop dropping to 100MHz, and you won't need
to force it.

Good luck,

Paul

micky wrote:

Thanks all in alt.comp.hardware, especially Paul and Larry, for the
help installing my replacement cpu. It's strange that I found this
more difficult this time than when I did it about 8 years ago.

So far that is a success in that now the BIOS and POST screens show
up, and they didn't before, and the cpu isn't getting very hot .
Has't been over 129F afaik.

Of course I haven't left it on long because, alas, it doesn't boot!!

It's an ASUS A7M266 mobo with an AMD Athlon MP 1.2GHz CPU Processor
AHX1200AMS3C Award BIOS 5/12/2001-AMD_760

The display on start-up reports ACPI BIOS Revision 1004A

It reports the chip as AMD H-Series 1200MHz
It never said H-Series with the other chip.

Except this last time out of 15 to 20 times it said 900MHz !!!

I think that is the most recent BIOS but I haven't checked for years.

The previous chip had been AMD 800MHz/100MHz..

Typically , it does the memory count off, all the normal lines after
that, up to and including the PCI device listing. That entire list
displays, and then the cursor flashes underneath that, but it goes no
further.

(No "Command.com not found" or "press any key to boot from harddrive",
for example.)

Do you think this might be because this is designed as a Server CPU
and not the other kind? This CPU was only 10 dollars and I'm ready
to buy another one if I made a mistake. Even if I might have made a
mistake!

Specific examples.
The first time I turned it on, I got an errror message, went to the
Award BIOS Setup and changed the Operating Freequency to 133 Mhz from
100 MHz, in conformance iwth the the faster chip I had bought.

The second time, when the computer finished the PCI device listing,
the light on the 3 1/2 floppy stayed lit.

I redid the boot sequennce, putting the hard drive first, and removing
the 3" floppy and the network (I have no way to boot from a network
anyhow.) Again it stopped with the 3 1/2 drive lit up.

On the main page of the Setup I filled in Legacy Disektte B with 5 1/4
and the next time that drive's light stayed lit, even though it's
never been in the boot sequence. Maybe this is where it polls the
drives. I thought that was earlier when it polls the CD drives, but I
could be wrong.

So I removed both floppies from the main page, and this time neither
floppy's light turned on, but it still stopped in the same place.

I put a bootable CD in the CD drive and put the CD first in Boot
order, but the CD light only went on right befoe or after the memory
count, not when it was time to read the boot device.

The hard drive light goes on sometimes, at the very start, but not
when iit needs to read the HDD to read boot device.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Maybe the new CPU doesn't support the same stepping count as did your
old one. Have you reset the BIOS to use the defaults?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_XP#Athlon_XP.2FMP

Was the prior CPU a mobile series (MP), too? Which core type (Palomino,
Thoroughbred, Barton, Thorton)? I don't remember all the differences
but I remember getting the Barton core since it was the most over-
clockable (i.e., I could use the same bus speed but up the multiplier to
effect a higher CPU core clock speed changinge a Athlon XP 2500+ to an
Athlon XP 3200+). Since I modified the BIOS setting for the CPU
multiplier, it won't default to sensing what the CPU would use according
to a table that lists which multiplier to use with which CPU. So if I
were to put in a different core-type CPU then I'd have to change the
BIOS to use the standard multiplier or change it to one the new CPU
supports. The Barton let me up the multiplier (to overclock the CPU)
but keep the bus rate the same so my memory wouldn't get overclocked. I
knew the Barton could handle it (FSB x multiplier) but memory is too
often already on the edge for its specs or gets flaky when overclocked
(FSB), and I wanted a stable host versus maybe a 2% faster one with
overclocked memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_multiplier

A higher FSB is better for CPU performance than having to pump up its
internal clock via multiplier. More FSB means higher bandwidth on the
data bus. You can increase the FSB but you might end up exceeding what
other devices (e.g., memory) can reliably handle. So, in my case on my
old Abit mobo, I kept the FSB at 200MHz (400Mhz DDR2 for memory to not
overclock it) and upped the CPU multiplier (to get faster computation
but not more bandwidth). By going to a CPU that requires a slower
external clock rate, you lowered your bandwidth. You might be able to
use a higher multiplier than before but that won't improve the reduction
in bandwidth.

Oops, just went back to reread your post and see you said "to 133 from
100". Usually it's a "from - to" comparison so I thought you went from
133 to 100. Nope, you went from 100 to 133. Okay, so you got a CPU
with a higher bandwidth but does it support the selected multiplier in
the BIOS? You improved bandwidth going from 100 to 133 Mhz but you'd
have to up the multiplier to get the same computational power you had
before but you probably don't want to overclock (use a higher multiplier
than rated) for now but make sure it's a multiplier that's supported.

With the increase in bus speed for the 133 Mhz new CPU (you did up the
clock speed, right?), does your old memory also support the higher clock
rate? Some mobos let you mismatch the CPU and memory clock rates (but
this results in some wait cycles due to the mismatch so can affect
memory performance). Some will use a memory clock rate dependent on the
bus speed you specified for the CPU, so upping the CPU clock will also
up the memory clock and your old memory might not be stable at the
higher clock rate or it will require upping its voltage to be stable at
the higher bus speed (but that'll generate more heat and push the memory
perhaps beyond its stable range of clock speed). The higher bus clock
can also affect other devices, like video card/controller, daughter
cards, etc.

I haven't bothered to look up the specs (you can do that) to see if the
Vcc voltage is the same for both the XP and MP (if you previously had an
XP). My Athlon XP is running at 1.62V for 6+ years despite the wiki
article saying the spec voltage is 1.65V. MP might need a different
voltage than what is set in your BIOS. The wiki article says 1.50 to
1.75 V for the Palomino core (MP) and only 1.65 for the Barton. Maybe
you also have to adjust the voltage if it was modified in the BIOS to a
user-defined setting.

You started a new thread and I wasn't about to go hunting for your prior
one and read through all of its posts to see what CPU you had before
compared to the one you have now.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 01:54:35 -0400, micky
wrote:

Thanks all in alt.comp.hardware, especially Paul and Larry, for the
help installing my replacement cpu. It's strange that I found this
more difficult this time than when I did it about 8 years ago.

So far that is a success in that now the BIOS and POST screens show
up, and they didn't before, and the cpu isn't getting very hot .
Has't been over 129F afaik.

Of course I haven't left it on long because, alas, it doesn't boot!!

I appreciate that neither Paul nor Vanguard gave me a hard time for
not reporting in more detail evidence that it found the harddrive. I
was falling asleep in my chair last night and didn't think of it.

But it's clearly there since the HDD model number is displayed in the
POST chart, and in the Setup, it displays the model number there too.
And the HDD red light goes on some times.

It's an ASUS A7M266 mobo with an AMD Athlon MP 1.2GHz CPU Processor
AHX1200AMS3C Award BIOS 5/12/2001-AMD_760

I was falling asleep sitting up when I posted this last night or I
would have though to post all this. CPU-world does't give the same
info for all its entries, and I've deleted lines that are exactly the
same.

So
It was a Thunderbird 4 and the new one is Palomino 6
Desktop Server
The stepping codes are not the same.

Myrprior CPU was an AMD A0800AMT3B, a "desktiop" cpu.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD...0800AMT3B.html
Type CPU / Microprocessor
Market segment Desktop
Family AMD Athlon
CPU part number A0800AMT3B is an OEM/tray microprocessor
Stepping codes ADFA AFFA AGGA AQFA
Frequency (MHz) 800
Bus speed (MHz) 200
Clock multiplier 8

Processor core Thunderbird (Model 4)
Manufacturing process 0.18 micron
37 million transistors
Die size 120 mm2
Level 1 cache size 64 KB 2-way set associative code cache
64 KB 2-way set associative data cache
Level 2 cache size Full-speed on-die 256 KB

V core (V) 1.75
Minimum/Maximum operating temperature (°C) 0 - 90


THE NEW ONE IS:AHX1200AMS3C

Type CPU / Microprocessor
Market segment Server
Family AMD Athlon MP
CPU part number AHX1200AMS3C is an OEM/tray microprocessor
Stepping codes AGKDA AGKFA
Frequency (MHz) 1200
Bus speed (MHz) 266
Clock multiplier 9
Package 453-pin staggered ceramic PGA
1.95" x 1.95" (4.95 cm x 4.95 cm)
Socket Socket A (Socket 462)
Introduction date 5-Jun-01
Price at introduction $265

Architecture / Microarchitecture
Processor core Palomino (Model 6)
Level 1 cache size 64 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Level 2 cache size on-die 256 KB
Features
MMX technology
3DNow! Professional
Low power features
Halt state
Stop Grant states
Sleep state
Probe state
Electrical/Thermal parameters
V core (V) 1.75
Minimum/Maximum operating temperature (°C) 0 - 95
Typical/Maximum power dissipation (W) 49.1 / 54.7




The display on start-up reports ACPI BIOS Revision 1004A

It reports the chip as AMD H-Series 1200MHz
It never said H-Series with the other chip.

Except this last time out of 15 to 20 times it said 900MHz !!!


I think that is the most recent BIOS but I haven't checked for years.

The previous chip had been AMD 800MHz/100MHz..


Typically , it does the memory count off, all the normal lines after
that, up to and including the PCI device listing. That entire list
displays, and then the cursor flashes underneath that, but it goes no
further.

(No "Command.com not found" or "press any key to boot from harddrive",
for example.)

Do you think this might be because this is designed as a Server CPU
and not the other kind? This CPU was only 10 dollars and I'm ready
to buy another one if I made a mistake. Even if I might have made a
mistake!


Specific examples.
The first time I turned it on, I got an errror message, went to the
Award BIOS Setup and changed the Operating Freequency to 133 Mhz from
100 MHz, in conformance iwth the the faster chip I had bought.

The second time, when the computer finished the PCI device listing,
the light on the 3 1/2 floppy stayed lit.

I redid the boot sequennce, putting the hard drive first, and removing
the 3" floppy and the network (I have no way to boot from a network
anyhow.) Again it stopped with the 3 1/2 drive lit up.

On the main page of the Setup I filled in Legacy Disektte B with 5 1/4
and the next time that drive's light stayed lit, even though it's
never been in the boot sequence. Maybe this is where it polls the
drives. I thought that was earlier when it polls the CD drives, but I
could be wrong.

So I removed both floppies from the main page, and this time neither
floppy's light turned on, but it still stopped in the same place.

I put a bootable CD in the CD drive and put the CD first in Boot
order, but the CD light only went on right befoe or after the memory
count, not when it was time to read the boot device.

The hard drive light goes on sometimes, at the very start, but not
when iit needs to read the HDD to read boot device.


Any help is greatly appreciated.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 03:29:51 -0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
Thanks all in alt.comp.hardware, especially Paul and Larry, for the
help installing my replacement cpu. It's strange that I found this
more difficult this time than when I did it about 8 years ago.

So far that is a success in that now the BIOS and POST screens show
up, and they didn't before, and the cpu isn't getting very hot .
Has't been over 129F afaik.

Of course I haven't left it on long because, alas, it doesn't boot!!

It's an ASUS A7M266 mobo with an AMD Athlon MP 1.2GHz CPU Processor
AHX1200AMS3C Award BIOS 5/12/2001-AMD_760

The display on start-up reports ACPI BIOS Revision 1004A

It reports the chip as AMD H-Series 1200MHz
It never said H-Series with the other chip.

Except this last time out of 15 to 20 times it said 900MHz !!!

You were right, Paul. The Operating frequency got changed back to
100Mhz and when I changed it to 133 in the BIOS again, this value went
back to 1200.

I think that is the most recent BIOS but I haven't checked for years.

I guess I don't. Maybe I never did. Sorry and thanks for correcting
me.

The previous chip had been AMD 800MHz/100MHz..

Typically , it does the memory count off, all the normal lines after
that, up to and including the PCI device listing. That entire list
displays, and then the cursor flashes underneath that, but it goes no
further. (No "Command.com not found" or "press any key to boot from harddrive",
for example.)

Do you think this might be because this is designed as a Server CPU
and not the other kind [desktop]? This CPU was only 10 dollars and I'm ready
to buy another one if I made a mistake. Even if [it's only suspected] I made a
mistake!

Specific examples.
The first time I turned it on, I got an errror message, went to the
Award BIOS Setup and changed the Operating Freequency to 133 Mhz from
100 MHz, in conformance iwth the the faster chip I had bought.

The second time, when the computer finished the PCI device listing,
the light on the 3 1/2 floppy stayed lit.
I redid the boot sequennce, putting the hard drive first, and removing
the 3" floppy and the network (I have no way to boot from a network
anyhow.) Again it stopped with the 3 1/2 drive lit up.

On the main page of the Setup I filled in Legacy Disektte B with 5 1/4
and the next time that drive's light stayed lit, even though it's
never been in the boot sequence. Maybe this is where it polls the
drives. I thought that was earlier when it polls the CD drives, but I
could be wrong.

So I removed both floppies from the main page, and this time neither
floppy's light turned on, but it still stopped in the same place.

I put a bootable CD in the CD drive and put the CD first in Boot
order, but the CD light only went on right befoe or after the memory
count, not when it was time to read the boot device.

The hard drive light goes on sometimes, at the very start, but not
when iit needs to read the HDD to read boot device.


Any help is greatly appreciated.

My guess at the moment, is your BIOS is too old. I don't know that
for sure though. I mean, it did try to identify the processor,
and didn't state something really stupid, so maybe it does
actually know the processor is an MP.

Palamino (Model 6) in this table, need BIOS 1007 or later. That's
what I'm basing my hunch on.

Well, you're right, it's a Palomino (Model 6.)

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/l...hashe did=n/a

You can check cpu-world, and look up the OPN on your
processor, but chances are your "H-series" is
Model 6 based (which is a good thing, with respect
to the support chart).

The page for A7M266 Athlon 1200 (266 MHz FSB) is
http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/d...os=AL L&memo=

and it says "The following table shows the supported CPUs for this
motherboar Since PCB ALL Since BIOS ALL
If your motherboard BIOS version number is greater than the BIOS
version listed above, then you will not need to flash your BIOS.
However, if your BIOS version is smaller than the version listed
above, then you will need to select and download the latest BIOS to
update your system"

Before I bought the CPU I took that to mean that any BIOS would work
with an Athon 1200/266, but maybe I have it backwareds???

What does it mean to compare my BIOS version number with ALL?

Are they saying, Since all and any bios, to use 1200 I have to flash
the bios? They tried to be clear, but then someone came around and
put ALL where a number ought to be.

Now, the question will be, how to flash update ?

Looks like you may be purchasing another processor anyway :-)

So you don't hold out much hope that flashing the BIOS will fix this
with the cpu I have now?

Using that (carefully selected, compatible with
BIOS 1004) processor, you'll be flashing up to 1007
or later,

They offer 1008.02 beta. It's been 9 years and it's still beta!
Later you show me where 1007 is. If 1004 is smaller than ALL, so is
or might be 1007.

Can I do 8beta first and if it later gives me troublek, then do 1007?

then you can go back to experimenting with
the MP.

The MP may have a lower TDP, and be more cool running,
than your previous desktop processor. That would be
the main attraction. If you don't care about that,
remember to buy something that is going to work with
1004.

Well, even before I bought this one, I looked up my original, 800mhz
in this same chart and it says ALL and ALL also, and then gives the
the same newest version of the BIOS, so other than buying the same
chip agaiin. I don't know where to find outf if another chip can use
my current BIOS.


Alternately, if you have buckets of money to spend on

LOL

this project, have badflash.com prepare a replacement
BIOS chip, and do your BIOS upgrade that way. As long

ROTFLOL

as the BIOS chip is socketed, and you can get a part
number off it, you could arrange for badflash to
upgrade the BIOS chip for you, for a price. Then
pop out the old BIOS chip, and install the new one.
The motherboard is so old, the chip type is
a 32 pin DIP (dual inline package). The chip is
just below the three ribbon cable connectors, so
have a look and see if the chip is sitting in a
socket.

I'l check soon if it has a socket, but I'm not paying someone to make
me a chip. I love fixing things but I have my limits

In college I found an electric percolater with none of the guts or the
cord, so i bought that stuff and it cost more than a new percolator,
and I didn't even drink coffee.

If the chip is soldered right into the
board, that makes it worse for chip swapping as
an option (you'd need a soldering iron, and
solder wick or solder puller).

You can see under the BIOS tab here, there are
still four BIOS for download, with 1008.02b
being the latest (2002.09.12).

http://support.asus.com/download.asp... ashedid=n%2fa

I definitely should have looked at this page first.


BTW, it says "here are 3 download servers available on ASUS Download
Site - Global, China and P2P. Each server provides exact the same
content no matter where you download from, except for the speed which
you are connected to." But the one on the left Global DLM required
one to use a special downloader you had to install. Plain old Global
did a plain old download.

With respect to the "900" versus "1200" thing,
don't panic. Your processor has a multiplier
of x9, and the two rates, come from a CPU
input clock of 100MHz or 133MHz. If you're
in JumperFree mode, then the BIOS can change

Yes, I am in JumperFree mode and I set it to 133 again and it's back
to 1200, at least for a while.

the clock speed, based on when the motherboard
"crashes". The processor may be nominal 133,
but they slow down to 100 if the board is
perceived to have crashed.

Using the DSCKF dip switch, you can also force
the motherboard to use the same clock value
(133) all the time, in "Jumper Mode". That is
controlled by the JEN jumper. If you force
the clock, then it shouldn't matter how many
times the motherboard crashes, each time it
starts, it'll run at the rate set by the
DSCKF four switch block.

I'd concentrate on getting it to boot first.
Once it's stable, then it will likely
stop dropping to 100MHz, and you won't need
to force it.

Makes sense.

Good luck,

Paul

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 02:30:27 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

micky wrote:

Thanks all in alt.comp.hardware, especially Paul and Larry, for the
help installing my replacement cpu. It's strange that I found this
more difficult this time than when I did it about 8 years ago.

So far that is a success in that now the BIOS and POST screens show
up, and they didn't before, and the cpu isn't getting very hot .
Has't been over 129F afaik.

Of course I haven't left it on long because, alas, it doesn't boot!!

It's an ASUS A7M266 mobo with an AMD Athlon MP 1.2GHz CPU Processor
AHX1200AMS3C Award BIOS 5/12/2001-AMD_760

The display on start-up reports ACPI BIOS Revision 1004A

It reports the chip as AMD H-Series 1200MHz
It never said H-Series with the other chip.

Except this last time out of 15 to 20 times it said 900MHz !!!

I think that is the most recent BIOS but I haven't checked for years.

The previous chip had been AMD 800MHz/100MHz..

Typically , it does the memory count off, all the normal lines after
that, up to and including the PCI device listing. That entire list
displays, and then the cursor flashes underneath that, but it goes no
further.

(No "Command.com not found" or "press any key to boot from harddrive",
for example.)

Do you think this might be because this is designed as a Server CPU
and not the other kind? This CPU was only 10 dollars and I'm ready
to buy another one if I made a mistake. Even if I might have made a
mistake!

Specific examples.
The first time I turned it on, I got an errror message, went to the
Award BIOS Setup and changed the Operating Freequency to 133 Mhz from
100 MHz, in conformance iwth the the faster chip I had bought.

The second time, when the computer finished the PCI device listing,
the light on the 3 1/2 floppy stayed lit.

I redid the boot sequennce, putting the hard drive first, and removing
the 3" floppy and the network (I have no way to boot from a network
anyhow.) Again it stopped with the 3 1/2 drive lit up.

On the main page of the Setup I filled in Legacy Disektte B with 5 1/4
and the next time that drive's light stayed lit, even though it's
never been in the boot sequence. Maybe this is where it polls the
drives. I thought that was earlier when it polls the CD drives, but I
could be wrong.

So I removed both floppies from the main page, and this time neither
floppy's light turned on, but it still stopped in the same place.

I put a bootable CD in the CD drive and put the CD first in Boot
order, but the CD light only went on right befoe or after the memory
count, not when it was time to read the boot device.

The hard drive light goes on sometimes, at the very start, but not
when iit needs to read the HDD to read boot device.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Maybe the new CPU doesn't support the same stepping count as did your
old one.

Steppping code, right. No, they're not the same:

Old ones ADFA AFFA AGGA AQFA
New ones AGKDA AGKFA

Have you reset the BIOS to use the defaults?

I didn't remove the battery .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_XP#Athlon_XP.2FMP

Was the prior CPU a mobile series (MP), too?

No. Somehow I bought this without noticing that.

Which core type (Palomino,
Thoroughbred, Barton, Thorton)?

Old one Thunderbird 4, New one Palomino 6.

I don't remember all the differences
but I remember getting the Barton core since it was the most over-
clockable (i.e., I could use the same bus speed but up the multiplier to
effect a higher CPU core clock speed changinge a Athlon XP 2500+ to an
Athlon XP 3200+). Since I modified the BIOS setting for the CPU
multiplier, it won't default to sensing what the CPU would use according
to a table that lists which multiplier to use with which CPU. So if I
were to put in a different core-type CPU then I'd have to change the
BIOS to use the standard multiplier or change it to one the new CPU
supports. The Barton let me up the multiplier (to overclock the CPU)
but keep the bus rate the same so my memory wouldn't get overclocked. I
knew the Barton could handle it (FSB x multiplier) but memory is too
often already on the edge for its specs or gets flaky when overclocked
(FSB), and I wanted a stable host versus maybe a 2% faster one with
overclocked memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_multiplier

A higher FSB is better for CPU performance than having to pump up its
internal clock via multiplier. More FSB means higher bandwidth on the
data bus. You can increase the FSB but you might end up exceeding what
other devices (e.g., memory) can reliably handle. So, in my case on my
old Abit mobo, I kept the FSB at 200MHz (400Mhz DDR2 for memory to not
overclock it) and upped the CPU multiplier (to get faster computation
but not more bandwidth). By going to a CPU that requires a slower
external clock rate, you lowered your bandwidth. You might be able to
use a higher multiplier than before but that won't improve the reduction
in bandwidth.

I had 800Mhz, and when this one burned out (probably deteriorated
thermal paste), at first I wa just going to just get 900, but then I
wanted 1200 and got caught up in 133/266, for the bandwidth, and
didn't notice this one was for a Server. MP. Mobile?

In my defense, they mention 1200 in the manual that came with it....
Well, doggone, no. My friend who gives me parts only sometmies gives
me the manual or CD that goes with them. I downloaded this manual
years after this particular mobo was made, and maybe the original
manual didnt' mention 1200.

Oops, just went back to reread your post and see you said "to 133 from
100". Usually it's a "from - to" comparison so I thought you went from
133 to 100.

Sorry.

Nope, you went from 100 to 133. Okay, so you got a CPU
with a higher bandwidth but does it support the selected multiplier in
the BIOS?

9 shows up in the multiplier field of the Setup screen, and I can set
the Operating Freq to 133. It's one of the pre-set choices.

And 1200 displays during the POST. Then 900, now I set it back to 133
and that gave 1200 again.

You improved bandwidth going from 100 to 133 Mhz but you'd
have to up the multiplier to get the same computational power you had
before but you probably don't want to overclock (use a higher multiplier
than rated) for now but make sure it's a multiplier that's supported.

With the increase in bus speed for the 133 Mhz new CPU (you did up the
clock speed, right?),

Yes, for the second attempted boot.

does your old memory also support the higher clock
rate?

Hmmm. I should print out those Belarc pages and save them. :-(

Some mobos let you mismatch the CPU and memory clock rates (but
this results in some wait cycles due to the mismatch so can affect
memory performance). Some will use a memory clock rate dependent on the
bus speed you specified for the CPU, so upping the CPU clock will also
up the memory clock and your old memory might not be stable at the
higher clock rate or it will require upping its voltage to be stable at
the higher bus speed (but that'll generate more heat and push the memory
perhaps beyond its stable range of clock speed). The higher bus clock
can also affect other devices, like video card/controller, daughter
cards, etc.

I haven't bothered to look up the specs (you can do that) to see if the

Absolutely, I should do that.

Vcc voltage is the same for both the XP and MP (if you previously had an

Yes, in a separate post by me you'll see the specs for both.
Vcore is 1.75 for both. The setup hardware monitor says I'm puttig
out 1.77 volts. And the other voltages are good too.

XP). My Athlon XP is running at 1.62V for 6+ years despite the wiki
article saying the spec voltage is 1.65V. MP might need a different
voltage than what is set in your BIOS. The wiki article says 1.50 to
1.75 V for the Palomino core (MP) and only 1.65 for the Barton. Maybe
you also have to adjust the voltage if it was modified in the BIOS to a
user-defined setting.

You started a new thread and I wasn't about to go hunting for your prior
one and read through all of its posts to see what CPU you had before
compared to the one you have now.

Of course not. I was falling asleep in my chair last night or I would
have thought to post more stuff.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:51:30 -0400, micky
wrote:


Looks like you may be purchasing another processor anyway :-)

So you don't hold out much hope that flashing the BIOS will fix this
with the cpu I have now?

OH, that's because I have to boot to dos at least to flash the bios!!!

Duih.

Using that (carefully selected, compatible with
BIOS 1004) processor, you'll be flashing up to 1007
or later,

They offer 1008.02 beta. It's been 9 years and it's still beta!
Later you show me where 1007 is. If 1004 is smaller than ALL, so is
or might be 1007.

Can I do 8beta first and if it later gives me troublek, then do 1007?

then you can go back to experimenting with
the MP.

So maybe the one I just bought will work with 1008b.

micky wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:51:30 -0400, micky
wrote:

Looks like you may be purchasing another processor anyway :-)
So you don't hold out much hope that flashing the BIOS will fix this
with the cpu I have now?

OH, that's because I have to boot to dos at least to flash the bios!!!

Duih.

Using that (carefully selected, compatible with
BIOS 1004) processor, you'll be flashing up to 1007
or later,
They offer 1008.02 beta. It's been 9 years and it's still beta!
Later you show me where 1007 is. If 1004 is smaller than ALL, so is
or might be 1007.

Can I do 8beta first and if it later gives me troublek, then do 1007?

then you can go back to experimenting with
the MP.

So maybe the one I just bought will work with 1008b.

That's the idea.

If you could boot with 1004, with your current processor, you
could have flash upgraded to the 1008.

If you can't get that to work, you need another solution.
Either badflash.com and have them make up a BIOS chip,
or insert another processor (one that works with 1004)
and use it to complete the flash upgrade.

The BIOS CPU Support page, states the *minimum* PCB revision
and *minimum" BIOS revision. If all versions of PCB revision
work, then the word "ALL" is used. If all versions of
BIOS revision work, then again, the word "ALL" is used.

An "ALL" for BIOS revision, means that CPU was supported from
the day the motherboard started to ship. So it doesn't matter
in that case, what BIOS you're using, if "ALL" is what you find.

When I read the table, it looked like Palomino processors were
being supported in a later BIOS (1007 or later).

*******

If you're able to get into the BIOS setup screen, that implies
POST finished ???

So I'm not 100% sure where we are here.

Upgrading the BIOS, would be a response to not being able to
finish POST.

I think you're saying you can get into the BIOS screen, and
that to me means POST is finished.

So what's happening then, is it just won't boot, from
anything ?

These are two possible responses by the BIOS. The first
response, is what happens when you want to get into the BIOS.
The second is a normal boot sequence.

POST starts --- user presses Delete --- POST finished --- BIOS SETUP appears

POST starts --- POST finished --- cursor goes to upper left,
clear screen --- BIOS tries to use INT 0x13 disk reads to boot.
If booting is failing, you might see the flashing cursor in
the upper left and no other response.

Those are the two different sequences. It's still possible
for a board to get stuck after POST finishes. It would imply
a problem with boot devices, or perhaps an INT 0x13 routine
that isn't working right and has hijacked the startup.

If it was me, and I could still get into the BIOS, I'd be
going screen by screen, to verify the settings are correct.

Next, I'd disconnect hard drive and CDROM cables, leave floppy
connected, and pop in my memtest86+ floppy, as a means
to test with floppy booting.

Updating the BIOS would be a "big win", if the POST hadn't
finish, but because you're getting into BIOS setup, I'm
not sure that this is guaranteed to help. It could be
something else is wrong.

A PCI Port 80 POST display card, installed in PCI slot #1,
can be used to help debug the problem, but even if you
got a two digit hex code from the card, past experience
shows you get limited benefit from the knowledge.

(The BIOS writes "progress codes" to port 80 I/O space...
These cards come in all sizes and shapes, priced $10 - $100
and their main value is displaying that a system is completely dead :-( )

http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2001/...ing/port80.jpg

Trying with floppy only, as a boot device, is to eliminate
the BIOS code used for HDD or optical drive as a source
of this problem. Some BIOS don't like coming up, with no
HDD connected, and get ****ed off. So this isn't a guaranteed
test case, merely another one to try, to get a positive
response.

I had a BIOS, that when a completely zeroed hard drive
(written with zeros from one end to the other) was connected,
it refused to try to boot from anything. That BIOS needed
a valid MBR on the (data-only) disk drive, for it to
go back to looking for boot on the *real* boot drive.
This is one reason, to try disconnecting HDD and optical
drive, just in case it's a flaky problem like that.

Boot floppies, might be ones used for MSDOS, or in the
case of memtest86+, the memtest program is set up as
if it's a boot loader, and it takes control immediately.
A memtest floppy has no file system, you can't list it,
but it contains code starting from the very beginning
of the floppy, and the BIOS just reads the code and
starts running memtest immediately. That would be
a way to prove a basic boot works (a boot that
loads very little code from the boot device).

http://www.memtest.org (scroll half way down for the downloads...)

Paul

micky wrote:

It was a Thunderbird 4 and the new one is Palomino 6
Desktop Server
The stepping codes are not the same.

Myrprior CPU was an AMD A0800AMT3B, a "desktiop" cpu.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD...0800AMT3B.html
Type CPU / Microprocessor
Market segment Desktop
Family AMD Athlon
CPU part number A0800AMT3B is an OEM/tray microprocessor
Stepping codes ADFA AFFA AGGA AQFA
Frequency (MHz) 800
Bus speed (MHz) 200
Clock multiplier 8

Processor core Thunderbird (Model 4)
Manufacturing process 0.18 micron
37 million transistors
Die size 120 mm2
Level 1 cache size 64 KB 2-way set associative code cache
64 KB 2-way set associative data cache
Level 2 cache size Full-speed on-die 256 KB

V core (V) 1.75
Minimum/Maximum operating temperature (°C) 0 - 90

THE NEW ONE IS:AHX1200AMS3C

Type CPU / Microprocessor
Market segment Server
Family AMD Athlon MP
CPU part number AHX1200AMS3C is an OEM/tray microprocessor
Stepping codes AGKDA AGKFA
Frequency (MHz) 1200
Bus speed (MHz) 266
Clock multiplier 9
Package 453-pin staggered ceramic PGA
1.95" x 1.95" (4.95 cm x 4.95 cm)
Socket Socket A (Socket 462)
Introduction date 5-Jun-01
Price at introduction $265

Architecture / Microarchitecture
Processor core Palomino (Model 6)
Level 1 cache size 64 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Level 2 cache size on-die 256 KB
Features
MMX technology
3DNow! Professional
Low power features
Halt state
Stop Grant states
Sleep state
Probe state
Electrical/Thermal parameters
V core (V) 1.75
Minimum/Maximum operating temperature (°C) 0 - 95
Typical/Maximum power dissipation (W) 49.1 / 54.7

After writing my long post, I think the first thing you should look at
is if the increased FSB (from 100 to 133) will also be used for the
memory. If so, you're memory may not be able to run reliable or at all
at the higher clock rate.

Somewhere on teh intarwebs VanguardLH wrote:
[snip]
After writing my long post, I think the first thing you should look at
is if the increased FSB (from 100 to 133) will also be used for the
memory. If so, you're memory may not be able to run reliable or at
all at the higher clock rate.

I think that the floppy drive cable is also attatched upside-down.
--
Shaun.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche