have we all had it with lousy offshore phone tech support, or what????

I'm sure that each of us has had some experience (usually
bad) with a tech support phone call to your favorite
equipment manufacturer. More than likely, the "tech" at the
other end of the line will have an accent think enough to
cut with a butcher knife. In most cases, these "dolts" will
put you through lots of useless paces while trying to
impress you with their mastery of the language and it
quickly becomes obvious that their diagnostic skills rank
somewhere along with my dog.
Major equipment manufacturers are increasingly transfering
their phone tech support to offshore locations in the belief
that lower labor costs will help their bottom line. but
considering the number of customers who judge the quality of
the company by the quality of phone support (just read the
numbers of posts in this n.g. which state that , because of
"lousy phone support", an otherwise loyal customer refuse to
recommend its products or will go elsewhere when it's time
to purchase again.)
Making these kinds of decisions to farm offshore is a
beancounter mentality. definitely not a sales or marketing
mentality. Let's hope that some of these companies like
HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway, & Acer begin to recognize what
damage these offshore support facilities create to long-term
company health. Anyone with me here? You might do as I
often do. When calling for phone support, A heavy accent
on the other end is enough to cause me to hang up the phone
& seek answers elsewhere. If enough of us do this, they
just might get the message.
-----Expertise is not self-proclaimed. It is an honor awarded by your peers-----
MB

"Araknid" wrote in message
...
I'm sure that each of us has had some experience (usually
bad) with a tech support phone call to your favorite
equipment manufacturer. More than likely, the "tech" at the
other end of the line will have an accent think enough to
cut with a butcher knife. In most cases, these "dolts" will
put you through lots of useless paces while trying to
impress you with their mastery of the language and it
quickly becomes obvious that their diagnostic skills rank
somewhere along with my dog.
Major equipment manufacturers are increasingly transfering
their phone tech support to offshore locations in the belief
that lower labor costs will help their bottom line. but
considering the number of customers who judge the quality of
the company by the quality of phone support (just read the
numbers of posts in this n.g. which state that , because of
"lousy phone support", an otherwise loyal customer refuse to
recommend its products or will go elsewhere when it's time
to purchase again.)
Making these kinds of decisions to farm offshore is a
beancounter mentality. definitely not a sales or marketing
mentality. Let's hope that some of these companies like
HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway, & Acer begin to recognize what
damage these offshore support facilities create to long-term
company health. Anyone with me here? You might do as I
often do. When calling for phone support, A heavy accent
on the other end is enough to cause me to hang up the phone
& seek answers elsewhere. If enough of us do this, they
just might get the message.
-----Expertise is not self-proclaimed. It is an honor awarded by your
peers-----
MB

The curse of it all is when you have resigned yourself to having to go
through all of the afore mentioned crap, you hit one who has not only
mastered the language, but also the mentality of the customers they are
supporting. Last time I had to make a call, I got an overly polite, but
very knowledgeable tech in India, who actually knew what he was doing. He
cut quickly through the scripted help tech spiel and instead of having him
lead me doggedly through the whole list, understood the problem and had me
speaking to a higher level tech who answered my question in under 20
minutes. While he seemed to be flipping through a mandatory check list, we
chatted and he was very personable as well as knowledgeable. Yes they get
paid a pittance even by the local economic standard and they know it. Yes
he thinks the lockstep approach is ridiculous and it ****es the real techs
off. All the better techs try to move up and leave the scripted level one
tech support to the marginally computer literates users all complain about.
BTW I am a former help desk tech for several ISPs as well as a PC tech for a
couple of white box builders, so when I have a question, it isn't going to
be covered in the level one script.

On the same note, a number of companies have brought their help desk
back to their previous homes, but only for business/commercial customers.

As far as I know, Cisco Systems was the original off shore tech support
progenitor. They leveraged their network capabilities with VOIP so that no
matter when you called you got first string, day shift support. They seemed
to maintain a singular level of quality support no matter who answered the
telephone. In my case that usually meant I got to talk to some one in
Australia, who could make things happen in real time through any of Cisco's
support/distribution/etc. sites in the US. This included realizing that we
had missed the closing time for an immediate replacement part to be shipped
from their Midwest (US) distribution site. So they had it shipped from
their West Coast (US) site and appoligiesed because the replacement would
take two hours extra to arrive since there was no connecting air express
shipment available and they sent a tech to hand deliver it via a 2(+) hour,
100(+) mile drive in a company car. Yes Cisco support was pricey, but no
one can deny that you got your money's worth in any emergency.

Everyone else just imitates that on the call center side without the
ability to provide the any real time response.

KC

On Fri, 13 May 2005 13:43:40 -0500, Araknid wrote:

Let's hope that some of these companies like
HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway, & Acer begin to recognize what
damage these offshore support facilities create to long-term
company health.

They're too stupid. When Gateway support starting hitting the pits
around 1999-2000, it was said that if that continued, they would loose
most of their return business and start loosing a large amount of new
business as word about their substandard tech support got out. Well,
their answer to that was to outsource their substandard support to
India which, of course, put the final nail in the coffin for them.
Look what happened to them. Now they are hooked up with another
substandard Taiwanese box builder called EMachine with both of them
trying to keep their substandard noses above water. But both of their
support level are still in the pits where it was headed when they were
told to not screw the public over on support.... Old Brain Dead Ted
was too stupid and too busy making those stupid cow ads to listen or
see the writing on the wall. Microsoft is next in line... Money Bags
Gates just send tons of support jobs to India.....

When calling for phone support, A heavy accent
on the other end is enough to cause me to hang up the phone
& seek answers elsewhere. If enough of us do this, they
just might get the message.

I no longer get a heavy accent attached to a brain dead company clone
on the other end... I quit buying Taiwanese boxes with an American
company name printed on them like GW, Dell, HP etc... I now buy white
boxes from a reputable local builder and get what... When I need
support, I get it from the same guy that actually built my computer
even if the parts are still manufactured in China, Mexico and Taiwan.
And he speaks my language and lives only 2 mile from me.

Everyone, American or not, Buy white boxes from a local reputable
builder. Support your own local economy by supporting your own local
merchants and that don't mean buying Taiwanese junk from your local
Walmart and KMart. And treat yourself to something you probably
haven't ever had before.... Local support from someone who's
reputation rides on your satisfaction... Someone that really gives a
****.

Regards from a prior GW customer, present local White Box customer.

Araknid wrote:
I'm sure that each of us has had some experience (usually
bad) with a tech support phone call to your favorite
equipment manufacturer. More than likely, the "tech" at the
other end of the line will have an accent think enough to
cut with a butcher knife. In most cases, these "dolts" will
put you through lots of useless paces while trying to
impress you with their mastery of the language and it
quickly becomes obvious that their diagnostic skills rank
somewhere along with my dog.
Major equipment manufacturers are increasingly transfering
their phone tech support to offshore locations in the belief
that lower labor costs will help their bottom line. but
considering the number of customers who judge the quality of
the company by the quality of phone support (just read the
numbers of posts in this n.g. which state that , because of
"lousy phone support", an otherwise loyal customer refuse to
recommend its products or will go elsewhere when it's time
to purchase again.)
Making these kinds of decisions to farm offshore is a
beancounter mentality. definitely not a sales or marketing
mentality. Let's hope that some of these companies like
HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway, & Acer begin to recognize what
damage these offshore support facilities create to long-term
company health. Anyone with me here? You might do as I
often do. When calling for phone support, A heavy accent
on the other end is enough to cause me to hang up the phone
& seek answers elsewhere. If enough of us do this, they
just might get the message.
-----Expertise is not self-proclaimed. It is an honor awarded by
your peers----- MB

Your point is well taken, but moot. GW is no longer a major player and
is dwindling in importance. Soon, there will be no one to call for
support.

Q

Your point is well taken, but moot. GW is no longer a major player and
is dwindling in importance. Soon, there will be no one to call for
support.


If you are unlucky enough to have a Gateway and need support, first
and foremost, you need to tell them you are a business customer. You
should ave done that when you bought it. You still can now.

The difference is you will get a foreigner in Ft. lauderdale rather
than a foreigner in India.

The other thing is that when you bought a Gateway, unless it was so
long ago that you probably aren't using it anymore in the first place,
you knew you were buying from a vendor with big issues.

All the name brand computer manufacturers are creating issues for themselves
with telephone tech support and any support or repair under warranty. It's not
just Gateway.

After having a number of largely positive experiences with Dell doing repairs of
their systems under warranty for my clients, I had a real doozy of an experience
yesterday. Not only was Dell's support person obviously in India and reading
from a script, but the company to whom they contract the repairs (Banctec) had
me talking with a person in India (or Bangladesh or Pakistan or whereever) to
arrange an appointment for a tech to show up and repair a computer that I was
obvious very capable of repairing. Finally, I replaced the power supply in the
damned thing with a new PS from a new Dell I had in stock and put the computer
back into service. This is a lot better for my client than waiting for a
service person to arrive next Wednesday, at a time to be determined, forcing me
to hang around here all day rather than being at my clients' locations making
money.

Frankly, my client threw away money on a 3-year extended warranty, given the
level of service provided. And my client would have had an impossible time
dealing with Dell directly, which is why I do it.

From this and other experiences, I consistently recommend that people do NOT buy
extended warranties for desktop systems. They are not worth the money. A
notebook computer is another matter. Sometimes the warranty is worth it, given
the fragile nature of notebooks... Ben Myers

On 28 May 2005 08:50:53 -0700, wrote:



Your point is well taken, but moot. GW is no longer a major player and
is dwindling in importance. Soon, there will be no one to call for
support.


If you are unlucky enough to have a Gateway and need support, first
and foremost, you need to tell them you are a business customer. You
should ave done that when you bought it. You still can now.

The difference is you will get a foreigner in Ft. lauderdale rather
than a foreigner in India.

The other thing is that when you bought a Gateway, unless it was so
long ago that you probably aren't using it anymore in the first place,
you knew you were buying from a vendor with big issues.

Correct. GW and Dell and all the other fraudulent corporations do seem
to treat their "Business" victims with a tiny bit more respect than
their home use victims. In other words, they have an American that
doesn't have a clue for business support instead of an Indian that
doesn't have a clue for support.

You are also correct about buying from these companies that have
issues. Hell, they all got issues... GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine,
the morbid list goes on and on. As others have pointed out on here and
other NewsGroups, these are nothing more than American Corporate
Registered names that are stamping their trashy names on cheap filthy
junk being thrown together in Taiwan and China while directing the
support for these junk machines to some 50 cent/hour idiot in India
that doesn't have a clue. All the while, they are running ads on
North American TV making the Sheep think that they (GW, Dell, HP,
Compaq, Emachine and others) are building these computers right there
in Home Town USA. Some of them have even been caught, and forced to
pull fake ads showing Americans in an American Building, in America
manning the assembly line putting these things together. GW had to pay
a lawsuit or fine (forget which) off over this immoral practice.

But they have their place. If the Sheep want a $399 piece of ****,
then GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine and others are the way to go. If
you want a $999 piece of ****, then they will sell you a $399 piece of
**** for $999. However, if you want a quality machine backed by local
support, buy a local build, White Box. Many others on here have stated
that they have moved to White Boxes just to get REAL support.

You won't get a White Box for $399 but then those that want a real
computer don't go for $399 Taiwanese junk anyway. Find a Local
Builder that is reputable. They aren't hard to find. Most have been
in business for years and everyone seems to know about them because
their reputation precedes them as a reputable builder. Have a White
Box built to your specification and supported by the same person that
built your computer in the first place and not some Bozo half way
around the globe that doesn't speak your language and doesn't have
a clue.

But.... BUT.... The local builder I do business with does have
computers for $399, even $99. They are used, trade in GW, Dell, HP,
Compaq, Emachine and other junk boxes people that finally got smart
traded in for a real computer backed by real support. My local builder
has a 23 year old striving business building quality machines with
quality support. He's covered up! It wasn't always that good for
him. He starved for years because the sheep were going the GW, Dell,
HP, Compaq, Emachine and others route. And actually he and I both will
have to admit that 10 years ago and before, GW, Dell, HP, Compaq,
Emachine and others actually built good machines with acceptable
support from people on this side of the globe. However, around 1995
when GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine and others stopped building and
supporting the machines with their names on them and turned into
nothing more than whores running marketing companies, local white box
builders started flourishing and have grown and flourished since.

GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine and others only customer base left is
the few sheep that haven't caught on yet. That is evident from these
company's dwindling worth and growing, questionable and exposed
reputations. While some are doing better than others, it only has to
do with the genius behind marketing plans and nothing to do with
product quality and support. Funny how if you market a pile of dog
**** the right way, you can get 1000's to buy it. GW, Dell, HP,
Compaq, Emachine and others only claim to fame is their marketing
genius which is even now eluding them as more and more of the sheep are
starting to get a clue.

This isn't just with hardware. Look how many software makers are not
only sending their support to India with a 50 cent/hour idiot that
doesn't have a clue but also their coding and packaging process is
being outsourced to third world countries. The only thing they are
doing in North America is running ads that make you "THINK" they
are an American Company, making their product in America and supporting
it from America. I read that even M$ is going to be outsourcing their
toll free support to India. If you want someone that speaks English
and has a clue, then you have to pay for it. So when M$'s stupid
activation scheme blows a big one (which it does all the time no matter
what the cloned MVP's are programmed to tell you) and you can't get
your $180 legal copy of XP to activate, you'll have to get someone
that doesn't speak your language and doesn't have a clue much less
give a **** about your problem on the horn to "help" you.

Ever hear of the old saying "Going to hell in a hand basket"? This
whole house of cards is going to come crumbling down soon or later
because as any fool knows, when you have **** going in, your got ****
coming out.

NIK

*** Email address is a Spam Trap and Not Real ***






wrote:

If you are unlucky enough to have a Gateway and need support, first
and foremost, you need to tell them you are a business customer. You
should ave done that when you bought it. You still can now.

The difference is you will get a foreigner in Ft. lauderdale rather
than a foreigner in India.

The other thing is that when you bought a Gateway, unless it was so
long ago that you probably aren't using it anymore in the first place,
you knew you were buying from a vendor with big issues.

Don't insult eMachines by calling them Taiwanese! Its computer are/were built
in Korea! But "substandard" fits the name eMachines. It may even be a
compliment compared to the usual verbiage thrown their way.

Nobody will have Ted to kick around any more. He resigned from the Gateway
board the other day to go off and count his millions, and maybe to get involved
in some new business venture.

I recently did a memory upgrade on a newish Gateway P4 box. I was impressed by
the quality of workmanship and parts inside. Really no major dropoff in product
quality here. Just tech support from another planet... Ben Myers

On Fri, 13 May 2005 20:24:04 -0400, Shooter fhasfdjh@AlkjdaF@com wrote:

On Fri, 13 May 2005 13:43:40 -0500, Araknid wrote:

Let's hope that some of these companies like
HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway, & Acer begin to recognize what
damage these offshore support facilities create to long-term
company health.

They're too stupid. When Gateway support starting hitting the pits
around 1999-2000, it was said that if that continued, they would loose
most of their return business and start loosing a large amount of new
business as word about their substandard tech support got out. Well,
their answer to that was to outsource their substandard support to
India which, of course, put the final nail in the coffin for them.
Look what happened to them. Now they are hooked up with another
substandard Taiwanese box builder called EMachine with both of them
trying to keep their substandard noses above water. But both of their
support level are still in the pits where it was headed when they were
told to not screw the public over on support.... Old Brain Dead Ted
was too stupid and too busy making those stupid cow ads to listen or
see the writing on the wall. Microsoft is next in line... Money Bags
Gates just send tons of support jobs to India.....

When calling for phone support, A heavy accent
on the other end is enough to cause me to hang up the phone
& seek answers elsewhere. If enough of us do this, they
just might get the message.

I no longer get a heavy accent attached to a brain dead company clone
on the other end... I quit buying Taiwanese boxes with an American
company name printed on them like GW, Dell, HP etc... I now buy white
boxes from a reputable local builder and get what... When I need
support, I get it from the same guy that actually built my computer
even if the parts are still manufactured in China, Mexico and Taiwan.
And he speaks my language and lives only 2 mile from me.

Everyone, American or not, Buy white boxes from a local reputable
builder. Support your own local economy by supporting your own local
merchants and that don't mean buying Taiwanese junk from your local
Walmart and KMart. And treat yourself to something you probably
haven't ever had before.... Local support from someone who's
reputation rides on your satisfaction... Someone that really gives a
****.

Regards from a prior GW customer, present local White Box customer.

On Sat, 28 May 2005 18:56:17 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

Don't insult eMachines by calling them Taiwanese! Its computer are/were built
in Korea!

I guess the best thing to do is just use the word "Asia" when we talk
about everything for sale in America now. Slop it together in Asia,
throw your American Name/Logo on it and sell it in Wall Mart or
Orifice De'pot or drop shipped via Gateway.

Nobody will have Ted to kick around any more. He resigned from the Gateway
board the other day to go off and count his millions, and maybe to get involved
in some new business venture.

Well, all you got to do is what Nic and others said, latch onto some
cheap junk made in Asia and have your American name stamped on it and
market it to the mindless hoards as if it were made in America, by
Americans and supported by Americans. Maybe Plasma TV's?????

I recently did a memory upgrade on a newish Gateway P4 box. I was impressed by
the quality of workmanship and parts inside. Really no major dropoff in product
quality here. Just tech support from another planet... Ben Myers

Even if Gateway's Taiwanese friends did slip up and build a good one,
you still have the Proprietary Design to contend with if certain
replacements/upgrades are warranted. I mean if you can't do as simple
a thing as replacing a blown PS with any number of available PS's on
the market......

Funny story for you that I read on another NG about Ted. This comes
from a guy that worked in the dealership where Ted's car comes
from.... I think it was a Jag..... Anyway, his car had ignition
problems and had to have some ignition module replaced. Problem was,
the ignition module's connector was proprietary so he could not use
any of the workable modules from other manufactures but had to wait a
week for the module with the proprietary connector to be shipped from
overseas. They said he raised hell about the wait....

Ain't Life Grand?

Regards,

Most every name brand manufacturer uses some proprietary parts to prevent easy
upgrades.

The smallish Gateway P4 desktops I upgraded this week use dead standard
Intel-designed microATX motherboards, and, of course, standard hard drive and
CD-ROM drive. If the power supply goes, good luck finding a replacement!
Better to remove the guts of the Gateway and install them in a generic mATX
chassis with one of the standard power supplies. Gateway tower systems use
standard parts and connectors up and down the line. The "small form factor"
desktop systems are the ones that use proprietary parts to cram everything into
a smaller space.

Dell towers are a ******* mix of standard parts and connectors and enough
non-standard ones that it would be major surgery to fit a Dell mobo into a
generic case or a generic mobo into a Dell case.

IBM towers use standard parts and attachments through and through, compromising
on power supply dimensions to fit stuff into a small chassis. Same with both
small form factor and mini-tower Compaq Evo systems. HP Pavilions use standard
parts and attachments but they are NOT designed for doing upgrades or repairs,
because they are the absolute worst when it comes to layout of the chassis.

They are all made overseas by contract electronics manufacturers (FoxConn,
Solectron, Jabil, Flextronics, Mitac, Lenovo, Acer/Benq, etc.) and the major
"engineering" work done by the name brand engineer-marketeers is to impose a
standard look and feel for the chassis and for the BIOS setup program. So the
engineering is really to come up with just the right plastic and color of paint
for the chassis.

That's what I've seen in the last year or so of fixing or refurbing these
beasts... Ben Myers

On 28 May 2005 11:46:54 -0700, wrote:

Correct. GW and Dell and all the other fraudulent corporations do seem
to treat their "Business" victims with a tiny bit more respect than
their home use victims. In other words, they have an American that
doesn't have a clue for business support instead of an Indian that
doesn't have a clue for support.

You are also correct about buying from these companies that have
issues. Hell, they all got issues... GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine,
the morbid list goes on and on. As others have pointed out on here and
other NewsGroups, these are nothing more than American Corporate
Registered names that are stamping their trashy names on cheap filthy
junk being thrown together in Taiwan and China while directing the
support for these junk machines to some 50 cent/hour idiot in India
that doesn't have a clue. All the while, they are running ads on
North American TV making the Sheep think that they (GW, Dell, HP,
Compaq, Emachine and others) are building these computers right there
in Home Town USA. Some of them have even been caught, and forced to
pull fake ads showing Americans in an American Building, in America
manning the assembly line putting these things together. GW had to pay
a lawsuit or fine (forget which) off over this immoral practice.

But they have their place. If the Sheep want a $399 piece of ****,
then GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine and others are the way to go. If
you want a $999 piece of ****, then they will sell you a $399 piece of
**** for $999. However, if you want a quality machine backed by local
support, buy a local build, White Box. Many others on here have stated
that they have moved to White Boxes just to get REAL support.

You won't get a White Box for $399 but then those that want a real
computer don't go for $399 Taiwanese junk anyway. Find a Local
Builder that is reputable. They aren't hard to find. Most have been
in business for years and everyone seems to know about them because
their reputation precedes them as a reputable builder. Have a White
Box built to your specification and supported by the same person that
built your computer in the first place and not some Bozo half way
around the globe that doesn't speak your language and doesn't have
a clue.

But.... BUT.... The local builder I do business with does have
computers for $399, even $99. They are used, trade in GW, Dell, HP,
Compaq, Emachine and other junk boxes people that finally got smart
traded in for a real computer backed by real support. My local builder
has a 23 year old striving business building quality machines with
quality support. He's covered up! It wasn't always that good for
him. He starved for years because the sheep were going the GW, Dell,
HP, Compaq, Emachine and others route. And actually he and I both will
have to admit that 10 years ago and before, GW, Dell, HP, Compaq,
Emachine and others actually built good machines with acceptable
support from people on this side of the globe. However, around 1995
when GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine and others stopped building and
supporting the machines with their names on them and turned into
nothing more than whores running marketing companies, local white box
builders started flourishing and have grown and flourished since.

GW, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachine and others only customer base left is
the few sheep that haven't caught on yet. That is evident from these
company's dwindling worth and growing, questionable and exposed
reputations. While some are doing better than others, it only has to
do with the genius behind marketing plans and nothing to do with
product quality and support. Funny how if you market a pile of dog
**** the right way, you can get 1000's to buy it. GW, Dell, HP,
Compaq, Emachine and others only claim to fame is their marketing
genius which is even now eluding them as more and more of the sheep are
starting to get a clue.

This isn't just with hardware. Look how many software makers are not
only sending their support to India with a 50 cent/hour idiot that
doesn't have a clue but also their coding and packaging process is
being outsourced to third world countries. The only thing they are
doing in North America is running ads that make you "THINK" they
are an American Company, making their product in America and supporting
it from America. I read that even M$ is going to be outsourcing their
toll free support to India. If you want someone that speaks English
and has a clue, then you have to pay for it. So when M$'s stupid
activation scheme blows a big one (which it does all the time no matter
what the cloned MVP's are programmed to tell you) and you can't get
your $180 legal copy of XP to activate, you'll have to get someone
that doesn't speak your language and doesn't have a clue much less
give a **** about your problem on the horn to "help" you.

Ever hear of the old saying "Going to hell in a hand basket"? This
whole house of cards is going to come crumbling down soon or later
because as any fool knows, when you have **** going in, your got ****
coming out.

NIK

*** Email address is a Spam Trap and Not Real ***






wrote:

If you are unlucky enough to have a Gateway and need support, first
and foremost, you need to tell them you are a business customer. You
should ave done that when you bought it. You still can now.

The difference is you will get a foreigner in Ft. lauderdale rather
than a foreigner in India.

The other thing is that when you bought a Gateway, unless it was so
long ago that you probably aren't using it anymore in the first place,
you knew you were buying from a vendor with big issues.