what to buy: 8800GT or HD3870 or 9600GT ?

"Beladi Nasrallah" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 1:07 pm, "Tony DiMarzio" wrote:
"CJM" wrote in message

...



"Vidmark" wrote in message
.. .

I currently use a PCI-e Nvidia 8800GTS. My ATI 9600 AGP in the other
box,
has better quality color and crispness so, I came to the conclusion
not
to touch another Nvidia video card. I believe ATI's video technology
is
by far better and more advanced than Nvidia's. That is my 2 cents...

**Fanboy Alert** - Ignore

Who's the bigger "fanboy", the fanboy or the fanboy who shouts "**Fanboy
Alert**" first?

For all anyone (including you) knows, he is speaking from pure experience
and has no brand bias. His conclusion being incorrect does not make him a
fanboy either.

Sooo... does 3870 provide better image quality ? In any of the
departments ? (I read numerous articles on the Internet where it was
shown with arguments that ATI 2XXX/3XXX has a better image quality
than 8800GT and its ilk, and other articles which dismissed it with
believable arguments, too.

My 7600GT + LG194WT combo provides severe banding/dithering/
posterisation, like the one mentioned in
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=35500
. I thought going to the ATI camp (3870) will inmprove the quality of
image, that is the banding problem will disappear (or, at least, will
be seriously mitigated).


Image quality has always been ATI's strong point - Nvidia cards tend to
produce darker more heavily saturated images
whereas ATI cards show a cleaner, more subtle grading of light to dark. The
quality is evident in desktop, web browsing
and games etc .... but is subtle enough that many people won't care just as
most people can't tell the difference between onboard
sound and a half decent plug-in card.

I've had a ATI 9100, GeForce4ti, ATI 9700, GeForce 6600GT,
GeForce 7900GS, ATI X800XL, GeForce 8600GT, ATI X1950pro and ATI 3850 so Im
not a fanboy of either ATI or Nvidia

Beladi Nasrallah wrote:


Sooo... does 3870 provide better image quality ? In any of the
departments ? (I read numerous articles on the Internet where it was
shown with arguments that ATI 2XXX/3XXX has a better image quality
than 8800GT and its ilk, and other articles which dismissed it with
believable arguments, too.

Link(s)?

On Feb 25, 11:40 pm, "Sleepy" wrote:

I've got a AMD X2 CPU and the HD3850 (so Im no nvidia fanboy) but Im
thinking hard about ditching the 3850 for a 9600GT.

Spring for an 8800GT Sleepy!

"CJM" wrote in message
...


But to claim ATI is better than Nvidia because he likes the colour palette
of his 5 year old R9600 compared to his 1yr old 8800GTS is pure folly; if
he's not a fanboy then he's a fool.

.... now that I could not argue with

Tony

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:49:49 -0800 (PST), Beladi Nasrallah
wrote:

I was thinking about nVidia 8800GT. However, its length is 23 cm, and
the available space in my PC case is 22 cm. So, no 8800GT... maybe,
the Gigabyte version with the Zalman cooler and the non-reference PCB
which is 21 cm long.

If card length was not an issue, then 8800GT-512 would be the obvious
recommendation. It's the fastest of the three cards. It can be found
for $200 at few online retailers in US.

Between HD3870 and 9600GT, you can pick any card and will be pleased.
So get whichever card fits your case.

Secondly, the RV670 chip
in HD3870 has a flaw: it has a software implementation of anti-
aliasing (which I need for SH4) instead of hardware one.

There is no flaw in RV6x0 series regarding AA. It definitely doesn't
use software (i-e CPU) for anti-aliasing.

Moreover, the
AA is via the so-called "tent" function, which just averages over the
neighborhood, and thus makes the sharp details look muddy.

That's not true either. The tent filter is one of the "optional" CFAA
settings. You can use regular multi-sample AA modes if you don't like
the CFAA ones.

You do not
always need that ! What's more (and very serious), nVidia seems to
come up often with the updated drivers for the latest games; ATI is
not doing it, and it is not known whether they will provide such a
support after being acquised by AMD.

ATI has monthly official WHQL certified driver releases. They also
release non-WHQL hotfixes for individual games if there's a need.

In short, I could wait for half a year more, and probably buy an
HD3870 for $160-190. Or, I could wait the same half a year, and
possibly buy 9600GT for $150-170 (and a new case, or wait for a
shorter non-reference PCB design ?). Or, I could buy right now the
grey-import HD3870 (from China tailored for the Chinese market with
the Chinese quality) for $260.

I won't spend $260 on HD3870. But if you can get it under $200 and it
fits your case, definitely get it. You won't be disappointed with any
one of the three cards.
--
Noman

OK, so I went into the local discount store, and saw "GIGABYTE 8800GT
TurboForce Model GV-NX88T512HP" as is described at
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read_pf.php?cID=1233 .

It is short (7.4" according to the website above) just like I wanted
it. However, the card I saw in the stor had two "spikes" which were
the terminated ends of the heat pipe. They are protruding 7 mm outside
the printed circuit board. This won't fit my case, or will fir barely.
I am thinking to buy this card anyway, and cut off the protruding ends
of the heat pipe. The heat pipe can be made of the whole copper tube
which then will present no problem. Or, it could be a tube filled with
liquid... in this case, I will just squeeze the copper pipe 7 mm away
from its end. Will this work (I never worked with heat pipes) ?

"Beladi Nasrallah" wrote in message
...
OK, so I went into the local discount store, and saw "GIGABYTE 8800GT
TurboForce Model GV-NX88T512HP" as is described at
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read_pf.php?cID=1233 .

It is short (7.4" according to the website above) just like I wanted
it. However, the card I saw in the stor had two "spikes" which were
the terminated ends of the heat pipe. They are protruding 7 mm outside
the printed circuit board. This won't fit my case, or will fir barely.
I am thinking to buy this card anyway, and cut off the protruding ends
of the heat pipe. The heat pipe can be made of the whole copper tube
which then will present no problem. Or, it could be a tube filled with
liquid... in this case, I will just squeeze the copper pipe 7 mm away
from its end. Will this work (I never worked with heat pipes) ?



anything that physically changes the card like that will invalidate the
guarantee.

frankly if your case is that tight then you are likely to suffer from
overheating as there
won't be adequate airflow - a standard ATX case should be a comfortable fit
for a 8800GT
- even one where the heatsink sticks up a little like that.

Beladi Nasrallah wrote:
OK, so I went into the local discount store, and saw "GIGABYTE 8800GT
TurboForce Model GV-NX88T512HP" as is described at
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read_pf.php?cID=1233 .

It is short (7.4" according to the website above) just like I wanted
it. However, the card I saw in the stor had two "spikes" which were
the terminated ends of the heat pipe. They are protruding 7 mm outside
the printed circuit board. This won't fit my case, or will fir barely.
I am thinking to buy this card anyway, and cut off the protruding ends
of the heat pipe. The heat pipe can be made of the whole copper tube
which then will present no problem. Or, it could be a tube filled with
liquid... in this case, I will just squeeze the copper pipe 7 mm away
from its end. Will this work (I never worked with heat pipes) ?


The heatpipe contains fluid. Sometimes it is only a few drops of fluid,
so may not be evident if you open the copper tube with a hacksaw. Once
the fluid escapes, the heatpipe is 100x less effective than before,
meaning it cannot carry much heat at all. The vaporizing and
condensing stages of fluid travel in the pipe, is the process
that "transports" heat from source to destination. Without
the vapor, the thin-wall copper tubing itself, is virtually
useless at carrying heat.

Modifying the tubes is not recommended.

Heatpipes will occasionally fail on their own (develop a pinhole
leak), which is why, for cooling devices, you want designs with
more than one pipe. The extra pipes provide some redundancy to the
design, so there is still some cooling effect, if one pipe fails.

Heatpipes may even be under partial vacuum. The fluid chosen has a
"normal" boiling point, at atmospheric pressure. If the manufacturer
wants to shift the boiling point slightly, they can use a partial
vacuum in the pipe, applied when it is sealed. That will reduce the
boiling point. Alternatively, they can use a different fluid (water
or alcohol etc).

Heatpipes also have a power limit, to their effective range. If
too much heat is applied to the pipe, then fluid never condenses
at the "cold" end of the pipe, and the transport process is broken.
So the size of pipe, the fluid used, are all critical to making the
pipe work.

There was at least one CPU cooler, where the heatpipes were "dead",
implying the manufacturer had still not perfected the sealing process.
So if you ever run into a CPU or GPU cooler, that isn't working well,
it can be caused by a manufacturing defect in the pipes.

Paul

As Paul has already pointed out, a heatpipe contains liquid/gas and possibly
a vacuum.

You are totally screwed if you puncture the heatpipes....

Beladi Nasrallah wrote:

OK, so I went into the local discount store, and saw "GIGABYTE 8800GT
TurboForce Model GV-NX88T512HP" as is described at
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read_pf.php?cID=1233 .

It is short (7.4" according to the website above) just like I wanted
it. However, the card I saw in the stor had two "spikes" which were
the terminated ends of the heat pipe. They are protruding 7 mm outside
the printed circuit board. This won't fit my case, or will fir barely.
I am thinking to buy this card anyway, and cut off the protruding ends
of the heat pipe. The heat pipe can be made of the whole copper tube
which then will present no problem. Or, it could be a tube filled with
liquid... in this case, I will just squeeze the copper pipe 7 mm away
from its end. Will this work (I never worked with heat pipes) ?


lol, you and the vinegar-bowl lady need to write a book on the world's
worst PC technical advice.

Please, if you do decide to take some shears and cut into a heat pipe,
post the video for posterity. Did you see how many views the vids of the
sods smashing their brand new PS3's received? You could do similarly well.

I had to go back and read you submissions to the group Beladi, from your
disappointment in not getting a 1650WS LCD (but hey the 7600GT to run it
made you happy as it was from *China*), and your irrational expectation
in getting a 8800GTX for $200:

"In 1 year, I will be able to buy 8800GTX for $200... which sells now
for $800, so that I will be able to play the latest games. Thanks to
the new 9-series." -Beladi

Oh poots that prediction did not come true, eh? Here's another Beladi gem:

"No surprise, you do not have access to inbetween your wife's legs. You
are after the altar boys ! And she does not like it..."

I bet you're a hoot at the punch bowl with your heat pipe shears and
salty ways.