Planning a new quiet, home, mid-range system for business apps,no games...

I want to build a small, quiet system for my wife, who does only basic
business apps and online access. One of the last systems I built was
for myself last year with an Antec 182 case, e8400 CPU, Corsair 650
power supply, Intel DP35DP mb, 4GB RAM, Win XP. Her system runs XP and
I would like to stick with it, so I would like to just build a system I
can drop her drive into and be up and running. While her hdd is IDE, it
is backed up every night with True Image, so I can easily clone a SATA
drive if there is no legacy IDE connector. I would also be happy with
the option of an onboard video with a DVI connector as well as a
graphics slot; I have a Samsung 19" monitor that she likes. The system
will only need to accommodate two hdds and an optical drive.

I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process of
putting a system together. What I don't know is the quality of the
various motherboard manufacturers these days and what components may be
available of which I do not know. I have used the Intel board without
trouble and I have used ASUS boards for many years without any problem
(I used one---P5K WS-- for a 64 bit quad core system I built for my
daughter last September).

Case requirements: quiet, no sharp corners (to save on cuts while
assembling!), front USB ports, good ventilation, I like the external
cable routing on the Antec--do others offer the same?

So.. what quiet tower or mini-tower cases should I look at other than
Antec? What motherboard manufacturers/models would you suggest that I
look at? Am I unwise to use onboard video to save on power and noise
(the cost of a video card is not an issue--if the answer is that I
should look at a separate video card, what models should I consider for
just a basic business app card? Other questions I am not considering?

Thanks,
Ken K

"ken" wrote in message
...
I want to build a small, quiet system for my wife, who does only basic
business apps and online access. One of the last systems I built was
for myself last year with an Antec 182 case, e8400 CPU, Corsair 650
power supply, Intel DP35DP mb, 4GB RAM, Win XP. Her system runs XP and
I would like to stick with it, so I would like to just build a system I
can drop her drive into and be up and running.

The only smart way to do that would be to buy the exact same motherboard.

While her hdd is IDE, it
is backed up every night with True Image, so I can easily clone a SATA
drive if there is no legacy IDE connector.

True Image is awesome. But I'd strongly suggest you install windows from
scratch on the new hard drive. Even if you buy the exact same motherboard,
windows needs to be tidied up every once in a while. Best way to do that is
to start with an unpartitioned hard drive. Oh, and if you don't buy the
exact same motherboard, then installing everything again is NOT optional.

I would also be happy with
the option of an onboard video with a DVI connector as well as a
graphics slot; I have a Samsung 19" monitor that she likes. The system
will only need to accommodate two hdds and an optical drive.

Fine,. but you can't build quiet and small. You're going to need a case
that has "too much" room, or you're going to end up with a hot system (not
cooled correctly) or a noisy system.


I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process of
putting a system together.

As you should. Building yourself is the only way to not end up with junk.

What I don't know is the quality of the
various motherboard manufacturers these days

Unfortunately, several of the best (quality wise) are either out of
business, or don't make ATX format motherboards anymore.

and what components may be
available of which I do not know.

Not much has changed. It is tough to get past 3GHz clock speed, so
manufacturers are going multi-core now. Any new build should be at least a
dual-core. Other than that, not much has changed.

I have used the Intel board without
trouble and I have used ASUS boards for many years without any problem
(I used one---P5K WS-- for a 64 bit quad core system I built for my
daughter last September).

I'm not an Asus fan at all. But Intel is great.


Case requirements: quiet, no sharp corners (to save on cuts while
assembling!), front USB ports, good ventilation, I like the external
cable routing on the Antec--do others offer the same?

Stick with what you know. I'd suggest an Antec 300. It is a "gaming" case,
but it is quiet and well ventilated. No reason you'd need to build a gaming
system in it, just because it is a gaming case. Build a business app web
surfer in it.


So.. what quiet tower or mini-tower cases should I look at other than
Antec?

Well, I know some rather bulky towers that are excellent, but pricey. I
don't see why you'd have to switch from Antec, though. I'm not a huge fan,
find their cases kind of boring, but sometimes boring is good.

What motherboard manufacturers/models would you suggest that I
look at?

Depends on whether you are building Intel or AMD. But in general, you
should stick with Intel boards for an Intel processor, and I'd suggest
Gigabyte for an AMD build.

Am I unwise to use onboard video to save on power and noise

Not at all. For business apps. and web surfing, onboard video is fine. In
fact, the latest trend is to put mid-range video chipsets on micro-ATX (and
even some ATX) mainboards. So for your use, it would be redundant to buy a
video card.

(the cost of a video card is not an issue--if the answer is that I
should look at a separate video card, what models should I consider for
just a basic business app card? Other questions I am not considering?

Yeah, PLEASE stay with the Corsair 650 power supply. And prepare to
re-install everything on the new hard drive. I'd suggest you try the
following, with a Phenom 8750. I think your wife will love it. -Dave

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128379

Dave wrote:
"ken" wrote in message
...
I want to build a small, quiet system for my wife, who does only basic
business apps and online access. One of the last systems I built was
for myself last year with an Antec 182 case, e8400 CPU, Corsair 650
power supply, Intel DP35DP mb, 4GB RAM, Win XP. Her system runs XP and
I would like to stick with it, so I would like to just build a system I
can drop her drive into and be up and running.

The only smart way to do that would be to buy the exact same motherboard.

First, thanks for your detailed response. There are a number of issues
that it raises.

To begin with, is it not possible to use the hdd that she already has
and move it to a different system? I can do a complete new install, but
I was hoping to not have to do it. At least with the new True Image,
individual directories and files can be restored, so the data will be
easy to install. I thought there was some way of preparing a hdd with
XP to move it to a new system... Not so?



While her hdd is IDE, it
is backed up every night with True Image, so I can easily clone a SATA
drive if there is no legacy IDE connector.

True Image is awesome. But I'd strongly suggest you install windows from
scratch on the new hard drive. Even if you buy the exact same motherboard,
windows needs to be tidied up every once in a while. Best way to do that is
to start with an unpartitioned hard drive. Oh, and if you don't buy the
exact same motherboard, then installing everything again is NOT optional.

I would also be happy with
the option of an onboard video with a DVI connector as well as a
graphics slot; I have a Samsung 19" monitor that she likes. The system
will only need to accommodate two hdds and an optical drive.

Fine,. but you can't build quiet and small. You're going to need a case
that has "too much" room, or you're going to end up with a hot system (not
cooled correctly) or a noisy system.

OK, no micro PC cases.

Suggestions of cases I might check out? I have the Antec 182.
she like the look of the Antec Sonata III case, although it comes with
one of their own power supplies, the Earth Watts 500, which is not
modular. I might purchase a Corsair and swap it out or look for a
different case. I have yet to cut myself on an Antec case, so I would
like to find a case that is as carefully made.



What I don't know is the quality of the
various motherboard manufacturers these days

Unfortunately, several of the best (quality wise) are either out of
business, or don't make ATX format motherboards anymore.

and what components may be
available of which I do not know.

Not much has changed. It is tough to get past 3GHz clock speed, so
manufacturers are going multi-core now. Any new build should be at least a
dual-core. Other than that, not much has changed.
I was planning on another e8400--see below about the AMD.

I have used the Intel board without
trouble and I have used ASUS boards for many years without any problem
(I used one---P5K WS-- for a 64 bit quad core system I built for my
daughter last September).

I'm not an Asus fan at all. But Intel is great.
The Intel board has been rock-solid, but I don't overclock, so that
should not be an issue anyway. I find it very vanilla and straight-forward.

Case requirements: quiet, no sharp corners (to save on cuts while
assembling!), front USB ports, good ventilation, I like the external
cable routing on the Antec--do others offer the same?

Stick with what you know. I'd suggest an Antec 300. It is a "gaming" case,
but it is quiet and well ventilated. No reason you'd need to build a gaming
system in it, just because it is a gaming case. Build a business app web
surfer in it.

The 300 is about 3" shorter and 2" shallower than the 182, which is a
good thing. I will check out prices. I like the cable routing between
the outside panel and the panel for the motherboard on the 182--it makes
for a very clean install and limits obstruction to airflow from cables
(which seems to be much less of a problem without IDE cables anyway
these days...)

So.. what quiet tower or mini-tower cases should I look at other than
Antec?

Well, I know some rather bulky towers that are excellent, but pricey. I
don't see why you'd have to switch from Antec, though. I'm not a huge fan,
find their cases kind of boring, but sometimes boring is good.

What motherboard manufacturers/models would you suggest that I
look at?

Depends on whether you are building Intel or AMD. But in general, you
should stick with Intel boards for an Intel processor, and I'd suggest
Gigabyte for an AMD build.

Am I unwise to use onboard video to save on power and noise

Not at all. For business apps. and web surfing, onboard video is fine. In
fact, the latest trend is to put mid-range video chipsets on micro-ATX (and
even some ATX) mainboards. So for your use, it would be redundant to buy a
video card.

(the cost of a video card is not an issue--if the answer is that I
should look at a separate video card, what models should I consider for
just a basic business app card? Other questions I am not considering?

Yeah, PLEASE stay with the Corsair 650 power supply. And prepare to
re-install everything on the new hard drive. I'd suggest you try the
following, with a Phenom 8750. I think your wife will love it. -Dave

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128379

Is it the Corsair brand that you are saying I should stay with or,
specifically, the Corsair HX620 that I should stay with? When I
checked out the power draw for a system that would have more demand than
this one, it spec'd out to 285 watts, so I thought I might purchase the
Corsair 520...


Funny!! I am not sure how I found this earlier today, but here is a
board I had been looking at, also a Gigabyte board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128359

This now raises some questions about AMD processors and boards. I have
always used Intel processors, so I have no knowledge about AMD
processors and memory. I checked on

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

and could not find the Phenom 8750, so I am not sure where it fits in
the ladder. What is the advantage of using AMD? Price alone? Do they
use the same memory as Intel (I assume yes, but I don't know)? Are
boards designed for AMD cpus similar or lower in price than a board
designed for an Intel board? do the AMD processors run hotter or cooler
than an equivalent speed Intel processor?

Thanks again
Ken

ken wrote:
I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process of
putting a system together.

Nothing wrong with that as long as you are not worried about the cost and
warrenty issue.
I stopped building machines for people over fifteen years ago and never
regretted the choice.
There still seem to be a few motherboards out there with IDE connection and
you can usually decide which drive to boot from. Install the old drive as a
slave, boot from it and transfer everthing to a new drive.
I would do a clean install on a new drive of all known, and still wanted,
software and install the old drive in the case if possible or as a USB
device.
Files can then be moved as needed. Old programs go away and if you hear
"What happened to that program I used to build widgets with, you know where
to look.

Mike Painter wrote:
ken wrote:
I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process of
putting a system together.

Nothing wrong with that as long as you are not worried about the cost and
warrenty issue.
I stopped building machines for people over fifteen years ago and never
regretted the choice.
There still seem to be a few motherboards out there with IDE connection and
you can usually decide which drive to boot from. Install the old drive as a
slave, boot from it and transfer everthing to a new drive.
I would do a clean install on a new drive of all known, and still wanted,
software and install the old drive in the case if possible or as a USB
device.
Files can then be moved as needed. Old programs go away and if you hear
"What happened to that program I used to build widgets with, you know where
to look.


So you've been purchasing the mass-produced systems? Which one? (WRT
the issue of an IDE connector, I can always use the image and lay it on
a SATA drive, so that is not so important now that I have thought of it.)

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:10:09 -0700, ken wrote:

I want to build a small, quiet system for my wife, who does only basic
business apps and online access. One of the last systems I built was
for myself last year with an Antec 182 case, e8400 CPU, Corsair 650
power supply, Intel DP35DP mb, 4GB RAM, Win XP. Her system runs XP and
I would like to stick with it, so I would like to just build a system I
can drop her drive into and be up and running. While her hdd is IDE, it
is backed up every night with True Image, so I can easily clone a SATA
drive if there is no legacy IDE connector. I would also be happy with
the option of an onboard video with a DVI connector as well as a
graphics slot; I have a Samsung 19" monitor that she likes. The system
will only need to accommodate two hdds and an optical drive.

I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process of
putting a system together. What I don't know is the quality of the
various motherboard manufacturers these days and what components may be
available of which I do not know. I have used the Intel board without
trouble and I have used ASUS boards for many years without any problem
(I used one---P5K WS-- for a 64 bit quad core system I built for my
daughter last September).

Case requirements: quiet, no sharp corners (to save on cuts while
assembling!), front USB ports, good ventilation, I like the external
cable routing on the Antec--do others offer the same?

So.. what quiet tower or mini-tower cases should I look at other than
Antec? What motherboard manufacturers/models would you suggest that I
look at? Am I unwise to use onboard video to save on power and noise
(the cost of a video card is not an issue--if the answer is that I
should look at a separate video card, what models should I consider for
just a basic business app card? Other questions I am not considering?

Thanks,
Ken K


While not the least expensive option you might want to look at
us.shuttle.com and take a look at what their systems look like. They
are small and ultra-quiet and can be assembled with many components
new or your own. There are numerous suppliers such as newegg.com and
directrol.com.

You shouldn't be disappointed. Good luck

The only smart way to do that would be to buy the exact same
motherboard.

First, thanks for your detailed response. There are a number of issues
that it raises.

To begin with, is it not possible to use the hdd that she already has
and move it to a different system?

Yes, but that's not the final step in the process.

I can do a complete new install,

Great! That's what it'll take.

but
I was hoping to not have to do it. At least with the new True Image,
individual directories and files can be restored, so the data will be
easy to install. I thought there was some way of preparing a hdd with
XP to move it to a new system... Not so?

There are short-cuts. But at best, it's going to leave a real mess in your
windows registry. At worst, you'll be scratching your head for months
trying to figure out what is wrong with your new hardware. There is only
one CORRECT way. You can use the same hard drive, no problem. But you'll
have to format C:

Now watch, someone is going to tell you how to do the shortcut and assure
you that everything will be OK. This is like saying it's OK to go 20,000
miles between oil changes in your car. It may be a matter of opinion, but I
sure as heck wouldn't abuse a system like that.

OK, no micro PC cases.

Suggestions of cases I might check out? I have the Antec 182.
she like the look of the Antec Sonata III case

I've built with a Sonata, although it wasn't a Sonata III. Unless the
Sonata has been significantly improved, you do not want it.

, although it comes with
one of their own power supplies, the Earth Watts 500, which is not
modular.

Modular is over-rated. Nothing wrong with it. But if you choose the right
case for ventilation, there is plenty of space to "hide" excess cables.


I might purchase a Corsair and swap it out or look for a
different case. I have yet to cut myself on an Antec case, so I would
like to find a case that is as carefully made.

There are many good brands. Foxconn, NZXT and XClio are all good brands of
CASES. (note I didn't say power supply) Any of those brands will be just
as good as Antec. Just not sure how much you want to spend. I like the
NZXT Alpha myself, but it's kind of overkill for what you are building.
Flashy and large. But it would work fine.


Yeah, PLEASE stay with the Corsair 650 power supply. And prepare to
re-install everything on the new hard drive. I'd suggest you try the
following, with a Phenom 8750. I think your wife will love it. -Dave

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128379

Is it the Corsair brand that you are saying I should stay with or,
specifically, the Corsair HX620 that I should stay with? When I
checked out the power draw for a system that would have more demand than
this one, it spec'd out to 285 watts, so I thought I might purchase the
Corsair 520...

I'd suggest you go with the HX620, or a 650 model. (I'm sure they make
one). Corsair is great, so I don't think you'd have much problem sticking
with that brand. The problem is, ALL manufacturers are skimping on
components for the low-power power supplies. These days, "low power" is
anything below about 650W, roughly. Yeah, there are many current builds
that can be run just fine on 500W or even 380W (if the power supply is good
quality). If you've got a build that draws 285W max, a REAL 520W power
supply is sized exactly right for it (because you want your power supply to
run 40-60% of max power, usually). Now try to find a decent one. Again,
even the decent brands are skimping on components in the ~500W range.
That's why I say aim for 650W or higher, regardless of what you build. You
really aren't going to spend that much more. In some cases, you might even
save ELECTRICITY by upgrading to a more powerful power supply. That's
counter-intuitive, but the better power supplies are more efficient in a
wide range of current draws. In other words, a 650W power supply might be
able to run a ~300W system more efficiently than a ~500W power supply would.
You would think that the 650W would draw more power from the wall outlet,
but that isn't necessarily so. It depends on how efficient the power supply
is at the specific current draw on each rail.




Funny!! I am not sure how I found this earlier today, but here is a
board I had been looking at, also a Gigabyte board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128359

Great board, for an Intel build. It doesn't appear to have built-in video,
so that will up your build price a bit. But if you've got the bucks, I
could recommend that one. Good choice.


This now raises some questions about AMD processors and boards. I have
always used Intel processors, so I have no knowledge about AMD
processors and memory. I checked on

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

and could not find the Phenom 8750, so I am not sure where it fits in
the ladder.

It is a triple-core version of a Phenom 9750. I'm not surprised it isn't on
your chart. Being triple-core, it kind of flies below the radar. But it
will benchmark between a Phenom 9650 and a Phenom 9750. Or if you are
wondering about benchmarks compared to Intel and more importantly,
bang/buck:
A Phenom 8750 will kick the crap out of an E8400 (performance wise), and
save you about forty bucks, as well. So it's a much better deal (at the
moment) than an E8400.


What is the advantage of using AMD? Price alone?

AMD is usually cheaper, as far as bang/buck goes. If you spend the same
amount of money on a build, you will end up with a little better performing
system if you build with an AMD processor.


Do they
use the same memory as Intel (I assume yes, but I don't know)?

Yes. That is a good question to ask though, as AMD processors often have
the memory controller built into the processor itself. That's why you will
see some AMD mainboards advertised as supporting certain memory speeds ONLY
with certain CPUs installed. But in general, you should buy high-quality
name-brand RAM of whatever speed is supported by your mainboard (and/or
processor). Good RAM is good RAM, and should work with any system you
build, regardless of processor brand, if that RAM is supported by the
mainboard.

Are
boards designed for AMD cpus similar or lower in price than a board
designed for an Intel board?

The best answer is, the boards are similar in price. Now let me qualify
that. Because Intel processors are more popular, you can sometimes find
some real bargains in mainboards to support Intel processors, if your
planned build is somewhat flexible. If you are aiming at a mid-range system
with no-compromise quality and only major brands of mainboards, you are
going to pay the same price for the mainboard that supports processors in
the same general performance range. That is, you can't save money on the
mainboard by changing the processor brand for a typical mid-range build.
But in the BUDGET mainboards (no-frills micro-ATX, usually), you can
sometimes find some really cheap mainboards for Intel processors. "Cheap"
as in not sacrificing much in terms of quality, but paying a very low price.
This is because of the increased competition for Intel boards, driving the
cost of the budget segment mainboards way down. But even at best, if you
save twenty or thirty bucks on a Intel mainboard (if you're willing to
settle for a budget board), the extra cost of the processor itself will eat
those savings.

So again, it boils down to the cost of the mainboard is about the same, all
things considered.


do the AMD processors run hotter or cooler
than an equivalent speed Intel processor?


Interesting question. How do you measure that? At the core, they are
identical. But you can't measure core temperature accurately. And any
external sensor would only indicate how well the processor dissipates heat
AWAY from the core. In that case, a higher temperature would be preferred.
(because it's better to get the heat OUT than to keep it in) You really
shouldn't need to worry about what temperature the processor runs at, unless
you intend to use a third-party cooling solution, or overclock. I wouldn't
suggest you do either. The retail boxed coolers for both AMD and Intel work
just fine.


If you are thinking about an AMD build and have built Intel systems in the
past, I can sum up what you need to know in a few words. Those words are,
you will have no problem at all.

In fact, after you build your first AMD system, you will look back and
realize that it's just like building an Intel system. No difference really.
Except that you'll usually spend a little less on hardware for the AMD
system. I build AMD systems almost exclusively. Every once in a while,
I'll build a system where someone insists they've got to have an Intel
processor. No big deal. Just another build. And don't get me wrong,
there is NOTHING wrong with Intel. It's just that, usually, AMD is a little
better deal. Just like your proposed E8400 system. I could take your list
of components, and build a better performing system with a Phenom 8750 for
less money. But that doesn't mean you'd be wrong to build with an E8400.
It's your system. And for office apps and web surfing, the E8400 will work
great. -Dave

ken wrote:
I want to build a small, quiet system for my wife, who does only basic
business apps and online access. One of the last systems I built was
for myself last year with an Antec 182 case, e8400 CPU, Corsair 650
power supply, Intel DP35DP mb, 4GB RAM, Win XP. Her system runs XP and
I would like to stick with it, so I would like to just build a system I
can drop her drive into and be up and running. While her hdd is IDE, it
is backed up every night with True Image, so I can easily clone a SATA
drive if there is no legacy IDE connector. I would also be happy with
the option of an onboard video with a DVI connector as well as a
graphics slot; I have a Samsung 19" monitor that she likes. The system
will only need to accommodate two hdds and an optical drive.

I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process of
putting a system together. What I don't know is the quality of the
various motherboard manufacturers these days and what components may be
available of which I do not know. I have used the Intel board without
trouble and I have used ASUS boards for many years without any problem
(I used one---P5K WS-- for a 64 bit quad core system I built for my
daughter last September).

Case requirements: quiet, no sharp corners (to save on cuts while
assembling!), front USB ports, good ventilation, I like the external
cable routing on the Antec--do others offer the same?

So.. what quiet tower or mini-tower cases should I look at other than
Antec? What motherboard manufacturers/models would you suggest that I
look at? Am I unwise to use onboard video to save on power and noise
(the cost of a video card is not an issue--if the answer is that I
should look at a separate video card, what models should I consider for
just a basic business app card? Other questions I am not considering?

Thanks,
Ken K


The new processors have impressive power consumption measurements. The
E8500 here is 33.4W running Prime95 multithreaded version. I did
a similar measurement on my own E4700, and got 36W. It is currently
drawing more power, because I have it overvolted :-)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...lfdale_11.html

You can get mini-ITX motherboards, which are smaller than microATX.
Don't mistake these for fun and games - you'll work hard to get this
to fit a case and be cooled properly. The reviews on Newegg give hints
on things like the choice of CPU cooler and so on. This motherboard is
relatively cheap (so if you have to bail on this project, not much money
will be thrown away on the motherboard). This particular board has a
VGA video connector. There is another with VGA and DVI. The only
significant expansion option, is a PCI Express x1 slot, but it is hard
to visualize how a card would fit.

ZOTAC NF610I-D-E LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 7050 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813500010
http://www.zotac.com/index.php?optio...1&Item id=303
http://downloads.zotac.com/mediadrivers/mb/cpu/af3v.txt (you can use an E8400)
http://downloads.zotac.com/mediadrivers/mb/man/paf3.pdf (manual)

There is only one BIOS version showing on the download site, so I guess that
means they don't keep working on the BIOS. (I.e. Level of support could be
considered equal to zero.)

http://www.zotac.com/index.php?optio...8& Itemid=218

This web store has cases for mini-ITX projects.

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=52

Example of a case on Newegg - 8.7" x 5.1" x 11.8"
APEX MI-008 Black, 250W power, room for 5.25" optical, couple 3.5" bays for HDD
Still need to find a low enough profile CPU cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154091

Side view of APEX MI-008, with mini-ITX motherboard installed.
The motherboard came with a low profile cooler, in this example.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article905-page5.html

Low profile LGA775 cooler, only quiet when run at 20% duty cycle. Meets
the 40mm height target. (50mm clearance, but leave 10mm gap to PSU.)
If a taller unit could be found, it might run quieter. (Dynatron = blower)

http://www.circotech.com/dynatron-p1...et-lga775.html

A single stick of RAM should be enough. 2GB.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134581

Anyway, that's enough to give you the basic idea. A computer
based on integrated graphics, with a regular processor, in a small case.
If the case becomes too small, the project becomes too hard to assemble.
A larger case is less demanding on details.

Paul

ken wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
ken wrote:
I suppose I could purchase a Dell or HP, but I prefer the process
of
putting a system together.

Nothing wrong with that as long as you are not worried about the
cost and warrenty issue.
I stopped building machines for people over fifteen years ago and
never regretted the choice.
There still seem to be a few motherboards out there with IDE
connection and you can usually decide which drive to boot from.
Install the old drive as a slave, boot from it and transfer
everthing to a new drive. I would do a clean install on a new drive of
all known, and still
wanted, software and install the old drive in the case if possible
or as a USB device.
Files can then be moved as needed. Old programs go away and if you
hear "What happened to that program I used to build widgets with,
you know where to look.


So you've been purchasing the mass-produced systems? Which one? (WRT
the issue of an IDE connector, I can always use the image and lay it
on a SATA drive, so that is not so important now that I have thought
of it.)

For clients buying a lot of machines I have been recommending Dell since
Infoworld's "Gripe line" got started. That will probably be my next
computer but I'm starting to get the itch again.

I also have a lot of no name systems out there. Two that I tracked, one for
15 and the other for about ten years were still running when the business
sold. The ten year old machine was on 24x7x365 for most of that time. We
shut it down once to change out an oddball early fax/modem.
Almost anybody can say that about any computer today.

Failures are extremely rare and usually come as a result of a bad batch of
something.
Kalok is the last company I am aware of that exited the computer world
because of really bad hard drives.