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#21
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian
wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...vd19wcm9kdWN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. OK. I think it's connected with individual pin to the header on the motherboard, and I'll check it out and compare it to what the manual says. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks for all the help!!! |
#22
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"KatManDEW" wrote in message ... On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:30:39 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:46:11 -0000, "IanO" wrote: wrote in message .. . "PhilD" wrote: I'm having the exact same problem with multiple Acer desktops at work using my personal Lexar Jumpdrive Elite. Another brand, but older, is intermittant on the front ports. I convinced my boss that I need one at work, so he let me go buy one. I forget the brand I got, but guess what, it works consistantly on the front ports. snip Mmmmm, I wonder if the problem may be the jump drive. I too have a Lexar 1 gig that cannot connect to my Dell notebook. Works on the other two computers here though. Also works on my grandson's. Is there a common thread here? -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? As far as I know, the pins you connected your front ports to are controlled by the same chip as the rear ports. However it is possible that the cable or cables running to the front ports on the case are not wired for 2.0. Ian (trying to bottom post as much as possible!) Mine is a Lexar 1 gig. It works fine in the back ports on my 8KNXP, but not the front ports. It works on my Dell laptop and in the front ports on the IBM desktops at work. Wonder how we can find out about the front port wiring to see if it's correct, or if they even support 2.0? A jump drive is one of the things that the front ports are the handiest for..... What case do you have? We are talking, aren't we, about ports built onto your case with trailing cables terminating in pins or blocks for connection to the headers on the Gigabyte board? Just to be clear! ;-) The header pins for either USB standard are the same to all intents and purposes, but a port, hub or cable can still be incapable of operating at USB 2.0 speeds. In such cases only USB 1.1 speed is achieved. Since you achieve USB 2.0 hi-speed with the drive on your rear ports, I still suspect that the socket/cable provided with your case cannot handle 2.0. It is sometimes possible to replace these, but you are into specifics based on whose case you have used. You could go to EBUYER and purchase their internal USB 2.0 7-in-1 card reader! As well as reading cards, it has a USB socket on it, which is certified 2.0. It's a useful peripheral, and connects to the same USB header on the motherboard. What's my point? It is to stop using the case front ports, and replace them with another certified USB 2.0 device that provides a USB socket. Here is a really useful source of USB information: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html Thanks for the info. Yes, we are talking about USB ports on the front of the case. It's a Antec case with a little door on the front with two USB ports and a Firewire port. Funny thing is that I have a old USB 1.1 hub plugged into a port on the back of the PC, and the Lexar Jumpdrive works fine in that hub. But it's a unrecognized device if I connect it to the ports on the front of the case. I looked at a bunch of things on that web site. The idea of some front USB/Firewire ports combined with a card reader, mounted in a drive bay is VERY interesting. The only one I saw on that site also had a bunch of other stuff like temperature displays and fan speed controllers; http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/uc9fatr2b.html It doesn't have any more UBS/Firewire ports that the front of my case. I would love to have something like that with more ports and card readers, and no overclocking gizmos. I have a an 8KNXP and Antec case. I think when I built it there was an addendum to either the case or motherboard manual about errors in the USB wiring. Possibly a polarity switch. Adrian |
#23
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian
wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...vd19wcm9kdWN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. My motherboard manual indidates that my USB header is arranged like the standard Intel header described here; http://store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html I pulled all the individual pins and they are marked, and they were connected as listed on that web site. Like this; 2+ 2D- 2D+ 2Gnd R Wh Gn Brn 1+ 1D- 2D+ 2Gnd Or Ywl Gry Black My motherboard actually has two headers, with two ports on each header. The second header goes to two ports on the bottom back of my computer, which I didn't even realize were there. These two ports work fine with the Lexar Jumpdrive, or anything else I connect to them. They connect to the motherboard with 4 pin blocks. I've attached a picture of the USB headers on my motherboard. |
#24
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian
wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...vd19wcm9kdWN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. I checked the connections and they are connected like the standard Intel layout listed here; http://store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html This is the way my motherboard users manualy also shows them connected. There is a second header for two more ports that are connected to the bottom rear of my PC, which I did not even realize were there. These two ports work fine with the Lexar Jumpdrive and whatever else I connect to them. |
#25
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"KatManDEW" wrote in message ... On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...=c2hvd19wcm9kd WN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. I checked the connections and they are connected like the standard Intel layout listed here; http://store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html This is the way my motherboard users manualy also shows them connected. There is a second header for two more ports that are connected to the bottom rear of my PC, which I did not even realize were there. These two ports work fine with the Lexar Jumpdrive and whatever else I connect to them. Am stuck then! Did you look at the post above from Adrian Stuart? Might be relevant. Sorry, but I'm out of ideas for now! |
#26
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:48:00 -0000, "Adrian Stuart"
wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:30:39 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message ... On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:46:11 -0000, "IanO" wrote: wrote in message .. . "PhilD" wrote: I'm having the exact same problem with multiple Acer desktops at work using my personal Lexar Jumpdrive Elite. Another brand, but older, is intermittant on the front ports. I convinced my boss that I need one at work, so he let me go buy one. I forget the brand I got, but guess what, it works consistantly on the front ports. snip Mmmmm, I wonder if the problem may be the jump drive. I too have a Lexar 1 gig that cannot connect to my Dell notebook. Works on the other two computers here though. Also works on my grandson's. Is there a common thread here? -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? As far as I know, the pins you connected your front ports to are controlled by the same chip as the rear ports. However it is possible that the cable or cables running to the front ports on the case are not wired for 2.0. Ian (trying to bottom post as much as possible!) Mine is a Lexar 1 gig. It works fine in the back ports on my 8KNXP, but not the front ports. It works on my Dell laptop and in the front ports on the IBM desktops at work. Wonder how we can find out about the front port wiring to see if it's correct, or if they even support 2.0? A jump drive is one of the things that the front ports are the handiest for..... What case do you have? We are talking, aren't we, about ports built onto your case with trailing cables terminating in pins or blocks for connection to the headers on the Gigabyte board? Just to be clear! ;-) The header pins for either USB standard are the same to all intents and purposes, but a port, hub or cable can still be incapable of operating at USB 2.0 speeds. In such cases only USB 1.1 speed is achieved. Since you achieve USB 2.0 hi-speed with the drive on your rear ports, I still suspect that the socket/cable provided with your case cannot handle 2.0. It is sometimes possible to replace these, but you are into specifics based on whose case you have used. You could go to EBUYER and purchase their internal USB 2.0 7-in-1 card reader! As well as reading cards, it has a USB socket on it, which is certified 2.0. It's a useful peripheral, and connects to the same USB header on the motherboard. What's my point? It is to stop using the case front ports, and replace them with another certified USB 2.0 device that provides a USB socket. Here is a really useful source of USB information: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html Thanks for the info. Yes, we are talking about USB ports on the front of the case. It's a Antec case with a little door on the front with two USB ports and a Firewire port. Funny thing is that I have a old USB 1.1 hub plugged into a port on the back of the PC, and the Lexar Jumpdrive works fine in that hub. But it's a unrecognized device if I connect it to the ports on the front of the case. I looked at a bunch of things on that web site. The idea of some front USB/Firewire ports combined with a card reader, mounted in a drive bay is VERY interesting. The only one I saw on that site also had a bunch of other stuff like temperature displays and fan speed controllers; http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/uc9fatr2b.html It doesn't have any more UBS/Firewire ports that the front of my case. I would love to have something like that with more ports and card readers, and no overclocking gizmos. I have a an 8KNXP and Antec case. I think when I built it there was an addendum to either the case or motherboard manual about errors in the USB wiring. Possibly a polarity switch. Adrian Thanks for the reply. I just checked all my documentation and I did not find any addendums. I left a message on the Antec and Gigabyte support sites. I wonder if it would hurt to try swapping the D+ and D- polarity? Thanks Don |
#27
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:53:46 -0000, "IanO"
wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...=c2hvd19wcm9kd WN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. I checked the connections and they are connected like the standard Intel layout listed here; http://store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html This is the way my motherboard users manualy also shows them connected. There is a second header for two more ports that are connected to the bottom rear of my PC, which I did not even realize were there. These two ports work fine with the Lexar Jumpdrive and whatever else I connect to them. Am stuck then! Did you look at the post above from Adrian Stuart? Might be relevant. Sorry, but I'm out of ideas for now! I just now saw the post from Adrian, I checked all my documentation and couldn't find any addendums. I sent a message to Antec and Gigabyte support. I wonder if it would hurt to try swapping the D+ and D- polarity? Many many thanks for all the generous assistance! Don |
#28
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"KatManDEW" wrote in message ... On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:53:46 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...n=c2hvd19wcm9k d WN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. I checked the connections and they are connected like the standard Intel layout listed here; http://store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html This is the way my motherboard users manualy also shows them connected. There is a second header for two more ports that are connected to the bottom rear of my PC, which I did not even realize were there. These two ports work fine with the Lexar Jumpdrive and whatever else I connect to them. Am stuck then! Did you look at the post above from Adrian Stuart? Might be relevant. Sorry, but I'm out of ideas for now! I just now saw the post from Adrian, I checked all my documentation and couldn't find any addendums. I sent a message to Antec and Gigabyte support. I wonder if it would hurt to try swapping the D+ and D- polarity? Many many thanks for all the generous assistance! Don Did wonder about a polarity swap, but I'm not 100% sure what could go wrong. I am fairly sure that, at times, I have been careless with 1 and 2 and not had any problems. In fact, were I to open my case now, I may find it's wrong!! ;-)) |
#29
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:41:36 -0000, "IanO"
wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:53:46 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:39:36 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:30:11 +0000, Ian wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:08:51 -0500, KatManDEW wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "IanO" wrote: "KatManDEW" wrote in message m... Thanks again. Now I'm thinking that I should get one with a card reader, which is one of my main uses. But I haven't found any internal, combination card readers with USB ports, which comes with an interface, and I think there is something squirely with the front USB header on this 8KNXP motherboard. On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:23:51 -0000, "IanO" wrote: How about this device - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...n=c2hvd19wcm9k d WN0X 292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=32624 The card reader units will only have one USB socket on them as the rest of the bandwidth is used for the card reading. XP is clever enough to recognise the readers as devices, via the USB header. It's neat! You have two headers on the Gigabyte board, so you can probably leave the case ports connected anyway, unless one of them already feeds a bracket on the back panel.... I could live with one USB port on the card reader. The only problem is that there's something wrong with USB connected to the front header on my Gigabyte 8KNXP..... In addition to the Lexar Jump Drive not working if it's connected to one of the front ports, I just tried a 2.0 hub connected to a front port and it also came up as a unrecognized device. Just tried my camera in the front with the same results. I've been using that camera connected to one of the rear ports since I got this PC, with no problems, I have a R/C airplane simulator which works fine connected to a front port. Very perplexing and frustrating..... Perhaps we ought to revisit the wiring. How does the case present the connectors? Single pins, pairs, or a block? Further to that, I suspect that some devices are not fussed about the shield, or which way round dx and dy are connected, but other devices are fussy. I think it's something like that which is your problem, so maybe, as I say, it's a re-check and re-think of the connections to the board. I checked the connections and they are connected like the standard Intel layout listed here; http://store.yahoo.com/directron/installusb.html This is the way my motherboard users manualy also shows them connected. There is a second header for two more ports that are connected to the bottom rear of my PC, which I did not even realize were there. These two ports work fine with the Lexar Jumpdrive and whatever else I connect to them. Am stuck then! Did you look at the post above from Adrian Stuart? Might be relevant. Sorry, but I'm out of ideas for now! I just now saw the post from Adrian, I checked all my documentation and couldn't find any addendums. I sent a message to Antec and Gigabyte support. I wonder if it would hurt to try swapping the D+ and D- polarity? Many many thanks for all the generous assistance! Don Did wonder about a polarity swap, but I'm not 100% sure what could go wrong. I am fairly sure that, at times, I have been careless with 1 and 2 and not had any problems. In fact, were I to open my case now, I may find it's wrong!! ;-)) I got impatient and tried it but it didn't help. The Jumpdrive still doesn't work and the game controller wouldn't work with D+ and D- swapped. It didn't appear to damage either device. Hmmmmmm. |
#30
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Well, heck with it. I got a $15 add-on USB card, and a $15 internal
memory card reader, and I'm a happy camper. I got tired of the useless responses grom Gigabyte tech support, and the non-existant responses from Antec and the vendor where I purchased the system. |
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