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Aggressive memory settings questions
A7N8X-Deluxe board running 3 sticks of 256mb Infineon PC3200 DDR400
RAM CL2.5... I swapped one of the sticks at my local computer shop for one stick of Samsung PC3200 CL3 512mb. The logic was twofold: 1) Wanted to increase system RAM to 1gig and 2) Take advantage of the Dual Channel capability of this board (256+256 in slots 1 & 2, 512 in slot 3). Got home, installed the 512mb stick, everything booted up fine, 1gig of RAM in place. I then ran Sandra to analyze the memory and it reported the new stick was CL2.5 up to 166MHz and CL3 up to 200MHz. While I didn't feel this was anything to be concerned about in the grand scheme of things, I did take note of the fact my 256mb sticks were rated at CL2.5 at 200MHz and the new 512mb stick CL3. Then, quite ignorantly, I decided to play a bit with the memory settings. I selected "Aggressive" from the BIOS, saved, and received an audible report the "System Failed Memory Test". I quickly realized I could not simply reboot and get into the BIOS to change this setting back, so I removed the new stick of memory, leaving the two 256mb sticks in Slots 1 & 2. I was somewhat surprised to receive the same error warning, so I removed the stick from Slot 2, tried again, and no dice. Before resorting to flashing a new BIOS, on a whim I removed the remaining 256mb stick and replaced it with the 512mb stick-- Slot 1. I say "a whim" as it was rated at CL3 and I recall the "Aggressive" settings being in the neighborhood of CL2.5 in the BIOS memory setting menu. I was shocked to hear the computer POST and I was able to get into the BIOS, change the setting, reinstall the 1gig of memory, and proceed as if nothing happened. I considered myself lucky as I didn't really feel like fooling with a reflash! Anyway, a couple of questions that I have from that episode... 1) Does it make sense that with the "Aggressive" settings, my machine would boot with memory rated "slower" (rated CL3 memory installed allowed it to boot where rated CL2.5 failed)? 2) Does the possible answer lie in the logic that my CL3 rated Samsung memory is faster than advertised and the CL2.5 rated Infineon memory is perhaps "overrated"? 3) I believe, dual channel or otherwise, my system will default to the slowest rated RAM (CL3). Is this correct? 4) Even with CL2.5 rated RAM, if the BIOS memory settings call for CL3, I presume the memory will "throttle back" to the CL3 speed (it appears the "Auto" setting calls for this CL3 speed)? 5) It has been suggested in this group that the benefits of dual-channel capability are miniscule, at best, versus single channel. What discernable performance difference will one find with memory running at CL2.5 versus CL3? I should have asked this question prior to fiddling with the setting as it might be one of those imperceptible gains noticeable only on benchmark testing. Thanks in advance for your answers, input, and counsel! --Howie |
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In article , Howie
wrote: A7N8X-Deluxe board running 3 sticks of 256mb Infineon PC3200 DDR400 RAM CL2.5... I swapped one of the sticks at my local computer shop for one stick of Samsung PC3200 CL3 512mb. The logic was twofold: 1) Wanted to increase system RAM to 1gig and 2) Take advantage of the Dual Channel capability of this board (256+256 in slots 1 & 2, 512 in slot 3). Got home, installed the 512mb stick, everything booted up fine, 1gig of RAM in place. I then ran Sandra to analyze the memory and it reported the new stick was CL2.5 up to 166MHz and CL3 up to 200MHz. While I didn't feel this was anything to be concerned about in the grand scheme of things, I did take note of the fact my 256mb sticks were rated at CL2.5 at 200MHz and the new 512mb stick CL3. Then, quite ignorantly, I decided to play a bit with the memory settings. I selected "Aggressive" from the BIOS, saved, and received an audible report the "System Failed Memory Test". I quickly realized I could not simply reboot and get into the BIOS to change this setting back, so I removed the new stick of memory, leaving the two 256mb sticks in Slots 1 & 2. I was somewhat surprised to receive the same error warning, so I removed the stick from Slot 2, tried again, and no dice. Before resorting to flashing a new BIOS, on a whim I removed the remaining 256mb stick and replaced it with the 512mb stick-- Slot 1. I say "a whim" as it was rated at CL3 and I recall the "Aggressive" settings being in the neighborhood of CL2.5 in the BIOS memory setting menu. I was shocked to hear the computer POST and I was able to get into the BIOS, change the setting, reinstall the 1gig of memory, and proceed as if nothing happened. I considered myself lucky as I didn't really feel like fooling with a reflash! Anyway, a couple of questions that I have from that episode... 1) Does it make sense that with the "Aggressive" settings, my machine would boot with memory rated "slower" (rated CL3 memory installed allowed it to boot where rated CL2.5 failed)? 2) Does the possible answer lie in the logic that my CL3 rated Samsung memory is faster than advertised and the CL2.5 rated Infineon memory is perhaps "overrated"? 3) I believe, dual channel or otherwise, my system will default to the slowest rated RAM (CL3). Is this correct? 4) Even with CL2.5 rated RAM, if the BIOS memory settings call for CL3, I presume the memory will "throttle back" to the CL3 speed (it appears the "Auto" setting calls for this CL3 speed)? 5) It has been suggested in this group that the benefits of dual-channel capability are miniscule, at best, versus single channel. What discernable performance difference will one find with memory running at CL2.5 versus CL3? I should have asked this question prior to fiddling with the setting as it might be one of those imperceptible gains noticeable only on benchmark testing. Thanks in advance for your answers, input, and counsel! --Howie 1) On some boards, the more aggressive memory settings (like "Turbo") select a CAS2 setting. There are now a couple of memory supplies who have silicon that is likely to do CAS2, no matter how it is binned. The latest revision of Samsung TCCD and the Micron chips used in Ballistix are examples, and between them, there are seven brands of CAS2 memory using those chips. If the same chips are used to make ordinary DIMMs, there is a good chance they too will run at enhanced timings. 2) You are possibly looking at different generations of silicon dice, so the answer is yes. 3) Yes, the slowest DIMM determines the timings used. 4) Yes. The CAS value is actually written into the DRAM chip at POST, as part of the DRAM initialization. There is a register in the chip, where the CAS value is written. If the BIOS writes too aggressive a value into the DIMM, then obviously the machine will crash big time. Selecting "turbo" would do that. When "By SPD" is used, the BIOS reads the acceptable timing from the SPD chip on the DIMM, to figure out what CAS value to write into the DDR memory chips. This special write operation is required, as the DDR chips and the Northbridge have to agree on the delay to expect, before data will be delivered. 5) The easiest way to test the difference, is to prepare a memtest86 boot floppy (memtest.org). It only takes a few seconds to boot (less than booting Windows), and puts a bandwidth number in the upper left corner of the screen. You can compare memory bandwidth numbers that way. I think you will be quite surprised by the answer. A second way to do it, is to get a Knoppix boot CD, which has a copy of memtest86 built in, and memtest86 can be run from the boot prompt. It too boots in a matter of seconds, and gives the same info. Knoppix is a large download (700MB), so it is best to borrow a copy from someone and burn your own. I like Knoppix, because you can disconnect the hard drive, and experiment with overclocking, without having to worry about corrupting your hard drive. You can download and run Prime95 (Linux version, from mersenne.org) while using Knoppix. Once you pass memtest and Prime95, then it is safe to boot Windows. You can watch the Knoppix boot screen, and if you see "segmentation fault", or the boot process freezes, those are good indications that your core frequency is too high. HTH, Paul |
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Hi;
After the bios flash. your front side bus reverted to a safe setting lower than 200: either 133 or 166 so your DDR memory (2 x FSB) became DDR266 or 333)== acceptable for any of your sticks at CL2. It always revert to a SAFE SETTING and you have to adjust the FSB to the CPU's or end up w. lower perf. "Paul" wrote in message ... In article , Howie wrote: A7N8X-Deluxe board running 3 sticks of 256mb Infineon PC3200 DDR400 RAM CL2.5... I swapped one of the sticks at my local computer shop for one stick of Samsung PC3200 CL3 512mb. The logic was twofold: 1) Wanted to increase system RAM to 1gig and 2) Take advantage of the Dual Channel capability of this board (256+256 in slots 1 & 2, 512 in slot 3). Got home, installed the 512mb stick, everything booted up fine, 1gig of RAM in place. I then ran Sandra to analyze the memory and it reported the new stick was CL2.5 up to 166MHz and CL3 up to 200MHz. While I didn't feel this was anything to be concerned about in the grand scheme of things, I did take note of the fact my 256mb sticks were rated at CL2.5 at 200MHz and the new 512mb stick CL3. Then, quite ignorantly, I decided to play a bit with the memory settings. I selected "Aggressive" from the BIOS, saved, and received an audible report the "System Failed Memory Test". I quickly realized I could not simply reboot and get into the BIOS to change this setting back, so I removed the new stick of memory, leaving the two 256mb sticks in Slots 1 & 2. I was somewhat surprised to receive the same error warning, so I removed the stick from Slot 2, tried again, and no dice. Before resorting to flashing a new BIOS, on a whim I removed the remaining 256mb stick and replaced it with the 512mb stick-- Slot 1. I say "a whim" as it was rated at CL3 and I recall the "Aggressive" settings being in the neighborhood of CL2.5 in the BIOS memory setting menu. I was shocked to hear the computer POST and I was able to get into the BIOS, change the setting, reinstall the 1gig of memory, and proceed as if nothing happened. I considered myself lucky as I didn't really feel like fooling with a reflash! Anyway, a couple of questions that I have from that episode... 1) Does it make sense that with the "Aggressive" settings, my machine would boot with memory rated "slower" (rated CL3 memory installed allowed it to boot where rated CL2.5 failed)? 2) Does the possible answer lie in the logic that my CL3 rated Samsung memory is faster than advertised and the CL2.5 rated Infineon memory is perhaps "overrated"? 3) I believe, dual channel or otherwise, my system will default to the slowest rated RAM (CL3). Is this correct? 4) Even with CL2.5 rated RAM, if the BIOS memory settings call for CL3, I presume the memory will "throttle back" to the CL3 speed (it appears the "Auto" setting calls for this CL3 speed)? 5) It has been suggested in this group that the benefits of dual-channel capability are miniscule, at best, versus single channel. What discernable performance difference will one find with memory running at CL2.5 versus CL3? I should have asked this question prior to fiddling with the setting as it might be one of those imperceptible gains noticeable only on benchmark testing. Thanks in advance for your answers, input, and counsel! --Howie 1) On some boards, the more aggressive memory settings (like "Turbo") select a CAS2 setting. There are now a couple of memory supplies who have silicon that is likely to do CAS2, no matter how it is binned. The latest revision of Samsung TCCD and the Micron chips used in Ballistix are examples, and between them, there are seven brands of CAS2 memory using those chips. If the same chips are used to make ordinary DIMMs, there is a good chance they too will run at enhanced timings. 2) You are possibly looking at different generations of silicon dice, so the answer is yes. 3) Yes, the slowest DIMM determines the timings used. 4) Yes. The CAS value is actually written into the DRAM chip at POST, as part of the DRAM initialization. There is a register in the chip, where the CAS value is written. If the BIOS writes too aggressive a value into the DIMM, then obviously the machine will crash big time. Selecting "turbo" would do that. When "By SPD" is used, the BIOS reads the acceptable timing from the SPD chip on the DIMM, to figure out what CAS value to write into the DDR memory chips. This special write operation is required, as the DDR chips and the Northbridge have to agree on the delay to expect, before data will be delivered. 5) The easiest way to test the difference, is to prepare a memtest86 boot floppy (memtest.org). It only takes a few seconds to boot (less than booting Windows), and puts a bandwidth number in the upper left corner of the screen. You can compare memory bandwidth numbers that way. I think you will be quite surprised by the answer. A second way to do it, is to get a Knoppix boot CD, which has a copy of memtest86 built in, and memtest86 can be run from the boot prompt. It too boots in a matter of seconds, and gives the same info. Knoppix is a large download (700MB), so it is best to borrow a copy from someone and burn your own. I like Knoppix, because you can disconnect the hard drive, and experiment with overclocking, without having to worry about corrupting your hard drive. You can download and run Prime95 (Linux version, from mersenne.org) while using Knoppix. Once you pass memtest and Prime95, then it is safe to boot Windows. You can watch the Knoppix boot screen, and if you see "segmentation fault", or the boot process freezes, those are good indications that your core frequency is too high. HTH, Paul |
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Except there was not a bios flash...
"Mikey" mused: :Hi; :After the bios flash. your front side bus reverted to a safe setting lower than 200: either 133 :or 166 so your DDR memory (2 x FSB) became DDR266 or 333)== acceptable for any of your sticks :at CL2. :It always revert to a SAFE SETTING and you have to adjust the FSB to the CPU's or end up w. :lower perf. : : :"Paul" wrote in message ... : In article , Howie : wrote: : : A7N8X-Deluxe board running 3 sticks of 256mb Infineon PC3200 DDR400 : RAM CL2.5... : : I swapped one of the sticks at my local computer shop for one stick of : Samsung PC3200 CL3 512mb. The logic was twofold: 1) Wanted to : increase system RAM to 1gig and 2) Take advantage of the Dual Channel : capability of this board (256+256 in slots 1 & 2, 512 in slot 3). : : Got home, installed the 512mb stick, everything booted up fine, 1gig : of RAM in place. I then ran Sandra to analyze the memory and it : reported the new stick was CL2.5 up to 166MHz and CL3 up to 200MHz. : While I didn't feel this was anything to be concerned about in the : grand scheme of things, I did take note of the fact my 256mb sticks : were rated at CL2.5 at 200MHz and the new 512mb stick CL3. : : Then, quite ignorantly, I decided to play a bit with the memory : settings. I selected "Aggressive" from the BIOS, saved, and received : an audible report the "System Failed Memory Test". I quickly realized : I could not simply reboot and get into the BIOS to change this setting : back, so I removed the new stick of memory, leaving the two 256mb : sticks in Slots 1 & 2. I was somewhat surprised to receive the same : error warning, so I removed the stick from Slot 2, tried again, and no : dice. : : Before resorting to flashing a new BIOS, on a whim I removed the : remaining 256mb stick and replaced it with the 512mb stick-- Slot 1. : I say "a whim" as it was rated at CL3 and I recall the "Aggressive" : settings being in the neighborhood of CL2.5 in the BIOS memory setting : menu. : : I was shocked to hear the computer POST and I was able to get into the : BIOS, change the setting, reinstall the 1gig of memory, and proceed as : if nothing happened. I considered myself lucky as I didn't really : feel like fooling with a reflash! : : Anyway, a couple of questions that I have from that episode... : : 1) Does it make sense that with the "Aggressive" settings, my machine : would boot with memory rated "slower" (rated CL3 memory installed : allowed it to boot where rated CL2.5 failed)? : : 2) Does the possible answer lie in the logic that my CL3 rated Samsung : memory is faster than advertised and the CL2.5 rated Infineon memory : is perhaps "overrated"? : : 3) I believe, dual channel or otherwise, my system will default to the : slowest rated RAM (CL3). Is this correct? : : 4) Even with CL2.5 rated RAM, if the BIOS memory settings call for : CL3, I presume the memory will "throttle back" to the CL3 speed (it : appears the "Auto" setting calls for this CL3 speed)? : : 5) It has been suggested in this group that the benefits of : dual-channel capability are miniscule, at best, versus single channel. : What discernable performance difference will one find with memory : running at CL2.5 versus CL3? I should have asked this question prior : to fiddling with the setting as it might be one of those imperceptible : gains noticeable only on benchmark testing. : : Thanks in advance for your answers, input, and counsel! : : --Howie : : 1) On some boards, the more aggressive memory settings (like "Turbo") : select a CAS2 setting. There are now a couple of memory supplies who : have silicon that is likely to do CAS2, no matter how it is binned. : The latest revision of Samsung TCCD and the Micron chips used in : Ballistix are examples, and between them, there are seven brands : of CAS2 memory using those chips. If the same chips are used to : make ordinary DIMMs, there is a good chance they too will run at : enhanced timings. : 2) You are possibly looking at different generations of silicon dice, : so the answer is yes. : 3) Yes, the slowest DIMM determines the timings used. : 4) Yes. The CAS value is actually written into the DRAM chip at POST, : as part of the DRAM initialization. There is a register in the chip, : where the CAS value is written. If the BIOS writes too aggressive a : value into the DIMM, then obviously the machine will crash big time. : Selecting "turbo" would do that. When "By SPD" is used, the BIOS : reads the acceptable timing from the SPD chip on the DIMM, to figure : out what CAS value to write into the DDR memory chips. This special : write operation is required, as the DDR chips and the Northbridge : have to agree on the delay to expect, before data will be delivered. : 5) The easiest way to test the difference, is to prepare a memtest86 : boot floppy (memtest.org). It only takes a few seconds to boot : (less than booting Windows), and puts a bandwidth number in the : upper left corner of the screen. You can compare memory bandwidth : numbers that way. I think you will be quite surprised by the : answer. A second way to do it, is to get a Knoppix boot CD, which : has a copy of memtest86 built in, and memtest86 can be run from : the boot prompt. It too boots in a matter of seconds, and gives : the same info. Knoppix is a large download (700MB), so it is best : to borrow a copy from someone and burn your own. I like Knoppix, : because you can disconnect the hard drive, and experiment with : overclocking, without having to worry about corrupting your : hard drive. You can download and run Prime95 (Linux version, : from mersenne.org) while using Knoppix. Once you pass memtest and : Prime95, then it is safe to boot Windows. You can watch the Knoppix : boot screen, and if you see "segmentation fault", or the boot : process freezes, those are good indications that your core : frequency is too high. : : HTH, : Paul : |
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