Epson Stylus MAJOR Flaw~

I've noticed with several photo prints made from the past few Epson Stylus
Printer models I've had (currently Model #825) that there are vertical lines
going from the top of the print to the bottom in three different places.

This seems to happen more in the Winter than in the Summer when ink dries
faster on the paper.

One might look at that & think WTF !!?? So did a complete mechanical study to
find out what exactly is going on.

First, I lifted the lid to the printer and watched as the ink was going on to
the paper printing the photo, everything seemed perfectly fine. Beautiful
photo print as a matter of fact.

But by the time the print came out of the printer, there were serious flaws
consisting of 3 scarred completely straight vertical lines always in the exact
same 3 places ruining the photo print.

So I took off the tray holder that the paper lays on after it is printed so
that I could get a clear look inside the printer to see what exactly is
happening to the print after it has passed through the inkjets and was
completely shocked at what I found.

There were 3 plastic tiny reels with teeth so small that I could barely tell
what they were. But after the inkjets put the ink on the paper, it would pass
through these plastic teeth reels causing vertical scratch-lines up and down
the prints in the exact same places on every print. Note that normally, the
ink has dried by the time it reaches the plastic teeth reels but when whether
is damp and there is a lot of humidity in the air, it takes a bit longer for
ink to dry completely on the paper resulting in the teeth reels scratching the
ink off of the photo.

However, that was not at all that I noticed. A little further inside the
printer were even tinier metal teeth reels---and not just three but about 10.
I got a magnifying glass & looked at the print and could see very light
vertical lines going across the print. Not enough to complain or even notice
from eye distance.

The whole point is this: Why are these plastic & metal teeth reels there? The
print is automatically being fed out of the printer with rubber reels before
reaching the inkjet nozzles and will automatically feed out of the machine just
from those "before" reels alone which has absolutely no effect on the outcome
of the print whatsoever since they feed out the print just before the reaching
the inkjet nozzles. Why are the "after" reels there when they serve no
purpose----or very little purpose? They cause more damage to the photo than
aid in any manner.

So with the tray holder off the front of my printer, I held the paper downward
with my fingers to avoid the freshly printed ink touching the 3 plastic teeth
reels. And whaalaa---the photos printed to absolute perfection. From eye-view
anyway (aside from the even tinier metal reels further inside the
printer---which you basically can do nothing about.

One would think that as many years has Epson been making printers they would
know about this situation and done something about it before developing all the
numerous printers before the Epson Stylus 825. The question is---are they
still making Stylus models with these plastic teeth reels? Surely they have
received complaints about this situation before now.

I have not yet went to a store to see if the current Epson Stylus Photo model
out right now has the teeth reels that scars the prints it makes.

Does anyone else have any light to shed on the subject as to whether Epson has
ever corrected this flaw or not?

I can simply correct the flaw my prints face by taking a screw driver and
pliers & breaking out the plastic teeth reels myself. Hpefully that will not
do any damage to my printer mechanically to where it does not function.

But I have to wonder----how many other brands besides Epson also have these
teeth reels? Should I just break the teeth out of the printer and be done with
the problem---or will other printers I buy in the future (whether Epson, HP,
Lexmark, etc) all have the same problem?

Those feed wheels will come out without doing any damage to the printer. I
know, I took them out of my 820 when I saw the problem you have described.
I also removed them from my old 700. Now, there was a printer! I have
never seen photo prints from any machine that could match those from my 700.
Even my 820 barely matched up in print quality, and only with a certain set
of print specifications and paper. The 700 didn't care what paper or print
settings, it just printed fantastic photos.

I'm getting a new R200 in about a week as I had an issue with my 820. It
was clogging and not cleaning up. I called Epson Customer Service, spoke
with Heidi, and she gave me a discount on an R200, free shipping and a free
black cartridge! All this even though my 820 is about 16 months old!

Good luck.

"Menudoboy2" wrote in message
...
I've noticed with several photo prints made from the past few Epson Stylus
Printer models I've had (currently Model #825) that there are vertical
lines
going from the top of the print to the bottom in three different places.

This seems to happen more in the Winter than in the Summer when ink dries
faster on the paper.

One might look at that & think WTF !!?? So did a complete mechanical
study to
find out what exactly is going on.

First, I lifted the lid to the printer and watched as the ink was going on
to
the paper printing the photo, everything seemed perfectly fine. Beautiful
photo print as a matter of fact.

But by the time the print came out of the printer, there were serious
flaws
consisting of 3 scarred completely straight vertical lines always in the
exact
same 3 places ruining the photo print.

So I took off the tray holder that the paper lays on after it is printed
so
that I could get a clear look inside the printer to see what exactly is
happening to the print after it has passed through the inkjets and was
completely shocked at what I found.

There were 3 plastic tiny reels with teeth so small that I could barely
tell
what they were. But after the inkjets put the ink on the paper, it would
pass
through these plastic teeth reels causing vertical scratch-lines up and
down
the prints in the exact same places on every print. Note that normally,
the
ink has dried by the time it reaches the plastic teeth reels but when
whether
is damp and there is a lot of humidity in the air, it takes a bit longer
for
ink to dry completely on the paper resulting in the teeth reels scratching
the
ink off of the photo.

However, that was not at all that I noticed. A little further inside the
printer were even tinier metal teeth reels---and not just three but about
10.
I got a magnifying glass & looked at the print and could see very light
vertical lines going across the print. Not enough to complain or even
notice
from eye distance.

The whole point is this: Why are these plastic & metal teeth reels there?
The
print is automatically being fed out of the printer with rubber reels
before
reaching the inkjet nozzles and will automatically feed out of the machine
just
from those "before" reels alone which has absolutely no effect on the
outcome
of the print whatsoever since they feed out the print just before the
reaching
the inkjet nozzles. Why are the "after" reels there when they serve no
purpose----or very little purpose? They cause more damage to the photo
than
aid in any manner.

So with the tray holder off the front of my printer, I held the paper
downward
with my fingers to avoid the freshly printed ink touching the 3 plastic
teeth
reels. And whaalaa---the photos printed to absolute perfection. From
eye-view
anyway (aside from the even tinier metal reels further inside the
printer---which you basically can do nothing about.

One would think that as many years has Epson been making printers they
would
know about this situation and done something about it before developing
all the
numerous printers before the Epson Stylus 825. The question is---are they
still making Stylus models with these plastic teeth reels? Surely they
have
received complaints about this situation before now.

I have not yet went to a store to see if the current Epson Stylus Photo
model
out right now has the teeth reels that scars the prints it makes.

Does anyone else have any light to shed on the subject as to whether Epson
has
ever corrected this flaw or not?

I can simply correct the flaw my prints face by taking a screw driver and
pliers & breaking out the plastic teeth reels myself. Hpefully that will
not
do any damage to my printer mechanically to where it does not function.

But I have to wonder----how many other brands besides Epson also have
these
teeth reels? Should I just break the teeth out of the printer and be done
with
the problem---or will other printers I buy in the future (whether Epson,
HP,
Lexmark, etc) all have the same problem?

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:00:14 +0000, Menudoboy2 wrote:

there are vertical
lines going from the top of the print to the bottom in three different
places.

(...)

So did a complete mechanical
study to find out what exactly is going on.

(...)

There were 3 plastic tiny reels with teeth so small that I could barely
tell what they were.

Nothing new (groups.google - star wheel). The star wheels are mounted in
almost every Epson inkjet printer (and other brands too). These wheels do
exactly what you did by hand - they keep the paper surface in correct
position. IMHO one can compare thir unwanted effect and technical need
with trinitron tube wires.

In most cases the tracks are almost invisible, but in some situations
(especially when printing dark colours on certain non-epson papers) the
paper coating can come off leaving white dots on dark areas and then leave
dirty, wisible dots on lighter areas.

--
best regards,
Lukasz Spychalski

Good on you for doing a diagnosis and locating the problem.

Epson seems to change their paper transport every few printers. I'm
guessing the reason is cost. You will notice pretty much every inkjet
manufacturer has lowered how many parts they use, come up with ways of
using less materials, and cheaper methods of manufacturing. Factory
assembly costs money and machinery, and if a unit can be made with less
parts or parts that can be assembled with simple machines, that can save
money.

Also, as has been noted, printers are being made a toss away shells to
put ink into.

The problem you speak of has reared its ugly head numerous times over
many years in different manifestations. If you want to read about it
sometimes, plug "Epson +"Pizza wheel" into Google and see how many
references show up. This specifically refers to the small metal
serrated wheels.

The wheels are there, BTW to guide the paper so it doesn't hit
something else and smear. It's a bit ironic that on some printers it
seems to create more problems than it resolves.

Ultrachrome inks are slow drying and the 2200 has a 3rd party product
made to list the wheel assembly away for slowing drying papers.

I don't know if you are using Epson inks and papers or not in your
printer, and the appropriate ones for your printer and ink type at that.

There is some logic to Epson's own inks and papers, in that they usually
are fast drying to prevent the problem you mention, and I suppose they
could suggest they develop their inks for their printers, and using
others may leave you with your own issues to attend.

I would suggest against removing the wheels, although I know people have
done "Pizza-wheel-ectomies" on Epson printers and there are how to
instructions on the web somewhere.

From the years I have worked with people who own Epson printers, it
seems some have much closer tolerances than others. I only see slight
"pizza wheel" marks on slow drying heavily coated and heavy weighted
glossy papers. Others have reported bigger problems on the same models.

It would not surprise me that the way printers are constructed in recent
years, that parts may warp or otherwise be incorrectly positioned. You
may find that for your printer, during the winter months when you have
high humidity and slower drying inks, to wedge a piece of cardboard to
lift some part of the paper transport to allow the paper to clear the
wheels, especially the plastic ones.

You could also email Epson and demand a replacement I suppose. I agree
it should not be happening.

Art

Menudoboy2 wrote:

I've noticed with several photo prints made from the past few Epson Stylus
Printer models I've had (currently Model #825) that there are vertical lines
going from the top of the print to the bottom in three different places.

This seems to happen more in the Winter than in the Summer when ink dries
faster on the paper.

One might look at that & think WTF !!?? So did a complete mechanical study to
find out what exactly is going on.

First, I lifted the lid to the printer and watched as the ink was going on to
the paper printing the photo, everything seemed perfectly fine. Beautiful
photo print as a matter of fact.

But by the time the print came out of the printer, there were serious flaws
consisting of 3 scarred completely straight vertical lines always in the exact
same 3 places ruining the photo print.

So I took off the tray holder that the paper lays on after it is printed so
that I could get a clear look inside the printer to see what exactly is
happening to the print after it has passed through the inkjets and was
completely shocked at what I found.

There were 3 plastic tiny reels with teeth so small that I could barely tell
what they were. But after the inkjets put the ink on the paper, it would pass
through these plastic teeth reels causing vertical scratch-lines up and down
the prints in the exact same places on every print. Note that normally, the
ink has dried by the time it reaches the plastic teeth reels but when whether
is damp and there is a lot of humidity in the air, it takes a bit longer for
ink to dry completely on the paper resulting in the teeth reels scratching the
ink off of the photo.

However, that was not at all that I noticed. A little further inside the
printer were even tinier metal teeth reels---and not just three but about 10.
I got a magnifying glass & looked at the print and could see very light
vertical lines going across the print. Not enough to complain or even notice
from eye distance.

The whole point is this: Why are these plastic & metal teeth reels there? The
print is automatically being fed out of the printer with rubber reels before
reaching the inkjet nozzles and will automatically feed out of the machine just
from those "before" reels alone which has absolutely no effect on the outcome
of the print whatsoever since they feed out the print just before the reaching
the inkjet nozzles. Why are the "after" reels there when they serve no
purpose----or very little purpose? They cause more damage to the photo than
aid in any manner.

So with the tray holder off the front of my printer, I held the paper downward
with my fingers to avoid the freshly printed ink touching the 3 plastic teeth
reels. And whaalaa---the photos printed to absolute perfection. From eye-view
anyway (aside from the even tinier metal reels further inside the
printer---which you basically can do nothing about.

One would think that as many years has Epson been making printers they would
know about this situation and done something about it before developing all the
numerous printers before the Epson Stylus 825. The question is---are they
still making Stylus models with these plastic teeth reels? Surely they have
received complaints about this situation before now.

I have not yet went to a store to see if the current Epson Stylus Photo model
out right now has the teeth reels that scars the prints it makes.

Does anyone else have any light to shed on the subject as to whether Epson has
ever corrected this flaw or not?

I can simply correct the flaw my prints face by taking a screw driver and
pliers & breaking out the plastic teeth reels myself. Hpefully that will not
do any damage to my printer mechanically to where it does not function.

But I have to wonder----how many other brands besides Epson also have these
teeth reels? Should I just break the teeth out of the printer and be done with
the problem---or will other printers I buy in the future (whether Epson, HP,
Lexmark, etc) all have the same problem?