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About the AGP bus



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 21st 04, 03:54 PM
J. Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Russell wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
RaceFace wrote:


"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards out
there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP
cards for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards,
network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any quantity. It
will be that long before there are even any graphics cards that will
utilize the
potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway. There'll still be AGP cards around
for
a while yet. At least a couple years.


However new high performance motherboards that support AGP are going to
be
increasingly rare. Intel has dropped AGP support from their new chipsets
entirely and nvidia, via, and sis seem to be following their lead.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


It makes sense to them to make people think they have to have PCI-e now.
System builders are building systems from scratch and don't have to worry
about users wanting to use some of their current build. Untill PCI-E is
proven, reliable and actually produces significantly better performance
than AGP systems there is no reason to see PCI-e as a "must have".

And anyway we've heard all this before from Intel about AGP. Improving the
speed of using "system memory" is not that important as graphics cards get
more and more fast onboard memory. A graphics card which users AGPx8
without accessing system memory is better than a PCI-e card which does.


I see PCI Express as more of a "stuck with" than a "must have". I think we
would all have been better served if they had instead of PCI Express put
PCI-X in their chipsets as a standard feature. But that wouldn't have
forced one to upgrade any other components in order to replace a
motherboard.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
  #12  
Old December 21st 04, 05:09 PM
John Russell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I see PCI Express as more of a "stuck with" than a "must have". I think
we
would all have been better served if they had instead of PCI Express put
PCI-X in their chipsets as a standard feature. But that wouldn't have
forced one to upgrade any other components in order to replace a
motherboard.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


It's interesting when the "industry" thinks it in control and control what
people buy. Some company "breaks rank" and offers users an alternative.
There was Nvidia thinking that Intel users wanting SLI would have to get
Nforce5. Now gigabyte have produced SLI on a single card requring a normal
PCI-e motherboard, and Intel users can continue to use Intel chipsets and
have SLI! I doubt many people could afford to buy a twin card SLI as a
complete PC solution, even if the system builders offer it. So for most SLI
would be something to progress towards, and gigabyte have offered an
alaternative way of doing that!





  #13  
Old December 21st 04, 05:12 PM
Nicholas Buenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
McGrandpa wrote:

"RaceFace" wrote in message

"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards
out there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP
cards for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards, network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any
quantity. It will be that long before there are even any graphics
cards that will utilize the potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway.
There'll still be AGP cards around for a while yet. At least a
couple years.


But more likely, the top end cards will all be PCIx, and mid to low
range cards for AGP.


PCI-E. Not PCIX, despite nvidia's "PCX" brand name. PCIX is a 64-bit
parallel bus that can accept regular PCI boards. It is different from PCI
Express.


And probably would have been a betters solution, with it's legecy
compatablity. But no they had to go for a cheap serial interface...


  #14  
Old December 21st 04, 05:15 PM
Nicholas Buenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
RaceFace wrote:


"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards out
there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP cards
for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards,
network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any quantity. It
will be that long before there are even any graphics cards that will
utilize the
potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway. There'll still be AGP cards around
for
a while yet. At least a couple years.


However new high performance motherboards that support AGP are going to be
increasingly rare. Intel has dropped AGP support from their new chipsets
entirely and nvidia, via, and sis seem to be following their lead.


Nvidia's PCI-E board really offers no more extra than PCI-E though.


  #15  
Old December 21st 04, 05:19 PM
John Russell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Nicholas Buenk" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
McGrandpa wrote:

"RaceFace" wrote in message

"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards
out there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP
cards for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards, network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any
quantity. It will be that long before there are even any graphics
cards that will utilize the potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway.
There'll still be AGP cards around for a while yet. At least a
couple years.

But more likely, the top end cards will all be PCIx, and mid to low
range cards for AGP.


PCI-E. Not PCIX, despite nvidia's "PCX" brand name. PCIX is a 64-bit
parallel bus that can accept regular PCI boards. It is different from
PCI
Express.


And probably would have been a betters solution, with it's legecy
compatablity. But no they had to go for a cheap serial interface...

I've just built an Nforce2 system where the graphics card was the only plug
in device. I think they thought that for most people the motherboard chipset
devices would do the work of any current Plug in cards and all they need
new is a PCI-e graphics card. That would have been true if a decent audio
solution was in the chipset! For my own new upgrade I went for nforce3 so I
could use my old Santa Cruz sound card to replace the soundstorm I was
losing.



  #16  
Old December 21st 04, 05:26 PM
John Russell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Nicholas Buenk" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
RaceFace wrote:


"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards out
there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP
cards
for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards,
network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any quantity. It
will be that long before there are even any graphics cards that will
utilize the
potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway. There'll still be AGP cards around
for
a while yet. At least a couple years.


However new high performance motherboards that support AGP are going to
be
increasingly rare. Intel has dropped AGP support from their new chipsets
entirely and nvidia, via, and sis seem to be following their lead.


Nvidia's PCI-E board really offers no more extra than PCI-E though.


Your right. PCI-e motherboards have to do everything using motherboard chips
which users may currently use PCI cards for, as PCI-e cards aren't
avaialble. And a significant part of that is "sound". So Nvidia ditch
soundstorm, whilst many Intel PCI-e motherboards are appearing with hardware
sound chips on the motherboard. I for one wanting PCI-e would consider
shifting to Intel completely if I got decent sound.




  #17  
Old December 22nd 04, 12:39 AM
dvus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Russell wrote:

I see PCI Express as more of a "stuck with" than a "must have". I
think we
would all have been better served if they had instead of PCI Express
put PCI-X in their chipsets as a standard feature. But that
wouldn't have forced one to upgrade any other components in order to
replace a motherboard.

It's interesting when the "industry" thinks it in control and control
what people buy. Some company "breaks rank" and offers users an
alternative. There was Nvidia thinking that Intel users wanting SLI
would have to get Nforce5. Now gigabyte have produced SLI on a
single card requring a normal PCI-e motherboard, and Intel users can
continue to use Intel chipsets and have SLI! I doubt many people
could afford to buy a twin card SLI as a complete PC solution, even
if the system builders offer it. So for most SLI would be something
to progress towards, and gigabyte have offered an alaternative way of
doing that!


You gotta love the free market system...

dvus


  #18  
Old December 22nd 04, 01:02 AM
Ed Light
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"dvus" wrote
You gotta love the free market system...


It would be more fun to get rid of $$ and profit and have democratic
production with equal distribution. Then the hardware gurus could really do
their thing!

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.


  #19  
Old December 22nd 04, 02:22 AM
Nicholas Buenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Nicholas Buenk" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
McGrandpa wrote:

"RaceFace" wrote in message

"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards
out there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP
cards for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards, network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any
quantity. It will be that long before there are even any graphics
cards that will utilize the potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway.
There'll still be AGP cards around for a while yet. At least a
couple years.

But more likely, the top end cards will all be PCIx, and mid to low
range cards for AGP.

PCI-E. Not PCIX, despite nvidia's "PCX" brand name. PCIX is a 64-bit
parallel bus that can accept regular PCI boards. It is different from
PCI
Express.


And probably would have been a betters solution, with it's legecy
compatablity. But no they had to go for a cheap serial interface...

I've just built an Nforce2 system where the graphics card was the only
plug in device. I think they thought that for most people the motherboard
chipset devices would do the work of any current Plug in cards and all
they need new is a PCI-e graphics card. That would have been true if a
decent audio solution was in the chipset! For my own new upgrade I went
for nforce3 so I could use my old Santa Cruz sound card to replace the
soundstorm I was losing.


I will be using a plug in soundcard and a tv card.


  #20  
Old December 22nd 04, 08:41 PM
J. Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Russell wrote:


"Nicholas Buenk" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
RaceFace wrote:


"YanquiDawg" wrote in message
...
Probably a couple more years.There are millions of AGP motherboards
out there
and they are still being made.

Hi all, nVidia, ATI and all other graphics cards, will produce AGP
cards
for
how many time?


I agree - it will be at least a year before other cards such as sound
cards,
network cards, and the like are out in PCIe format in any quantity. It
will be that long before there are even any graphics cards that will
utilize the
potential bandwidth of PCIe, anyway. There'll still be AGP cards
around for
a while yet. At least a couple years.

However new high performance motherboards that support AGP are going to
be
increasingly rare. Intel has dropped AGP support from their new
chipsets entirely and nvidia, via, and sis seem to be following their
lead.


Nvidia's PCI-E board really offers no more extra than PCI-E though.


Your right. PCI-e motherboards have to do everything using motherboard
chips which users may currently use PCI cards for, as PCI-e cards aren't
avaialble. And a significant part of that is "sound". So Nvidia ditch
soundstorm, whilst many Intel PCI-e motherboards are appearing with
hardware sound chips on the motherboard. I for one wanting PCI-e would
consider shifting to Intel completely if I got decent sound.


There are few motherboards that support PCI Express that don't also have
ordinary PCI slots. For the most part lack of PCI Express boards is not an
issue as yet.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 




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