Frail Scratch Disk

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:42:27 +0000, Ewan Sinclair wrote:

You would be trying to power up the device way after the hardware
detection phase of Windows bootup sequence and way past when any driver
for it would load and detect the device.

How easy would it be to fake the presence of the drive? How much
information does windows need?

If I can record the drive information (either by putting the requisite
signals into the IDE port on the drive and recording the results, or just
by getting the relevant infofrom the manufacturer), would it be that hard
to build a PIC based device that pretends it is the disk? From there, it's
just a matter of swapping the connectors and issuing a spinup command I
assume.

Does anyone know of a good place to read up on what goes on with detection
and control of IDE devices?

Ewan

Wow, this man is on a mission! While most people would just grab one of those
WD800JB 80GB 8MB cache drives for $49 after rebates, he
wants to design new hardware using a microcontroller.

Sorry, without googling I don't have any good detailed IDE links to give.

I do not believe the IDE controller, OS drivers, or drive itself was
designed to be hot swapped. Even with your proposed "emulator" in place
at boot, I have a feeling your physical swapping of devices later is not a
good idea.

There may not be any spinup commands on IDE drives. If you just attach the
power connector (no data conn) it will power up immediately if the power
supply is on.

I hate to shoot down your project, because it would definately be a
learning experience, but you should also face the reality that your drive
may stop functioning before you even finish building your device :/

PS: I'll pass on this thread to you, you may find it helpful when shopping for
a new hard drive:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...readid=1160291

Best of luck,
~Jeremy
__________________________________________________ __________________
Please remove your windows partition when replying by email

I've got an old 30GB drive lying around that's on it's last legs and is
making funny noises.

The thing is, I'd rather like to make efficient use of its remaining
operating time. Is there any way to stop a disk spinning up on boot, and
activate it later if you feel like it?

I am assuming you would need some kind of hardware device that mediates
between the IDE bus and power cable, and the disk itself. Is there such a
thing?

Ewan

Ewan Sinclair wrote:
I've got an old 30GB drive lying around that's on it's last legs and
is making funny noises.

The thing is, I'd rather like to make efficient use of its remaining
operating time. Is there any way to stop a disk spinning up on boot,
and activate it later if you feel like it?

I am assuming you would need some kind of hardware device that
mediates between the IDE bus and power cable, and the disk itself. Is
there such a thing?

Ewan

You would be trying to power up the device way after the hardware
detection phase of Windows bootup sequence and way past when any driver
for it would load and detect the device.

If you manage to find such a device which would have to include hardware
and software (to force the device load), be sure it costs under $50
since you can get a new 40 GB for that.


--
__________________________________________________ __________
*** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. ***
__________________________________________________ __________

You would be trying to power up the device way after the hardware
detection phase of Windows bootup sequence and way past when any driver
for it would load and detect the device.

How easy would it be to fake the presence of the drive? How much information
does windows need?

If I can record the drive information (either by putting the requisite
signals into the IDE port on the drive and recording the results, or just by
getting the relevant infofrom the manufacturer), would it be that hard to
build a PIC based device that pretends it is the disk? From there, it's just
a matter of swapping the connectors and issuing a spinup command I assume.

Does anyone know of a good place to read up on what goes on with detection
and control of IDE devices?

Ewan

"Ewan Sinclair" wrote in message
...
I've got an old 30GB drive lying around that's on it's last legs and is
making funny noises.

The thing is, I'd rather like to make efficient use of its remaining
operating time. Is there any way to stop a disk spinning up on boot, and
activate it later if you feel like it?

I am assuming you would need some kind of hardware device that mediates
between the IDE bus and power cable, and the disk itself. Is there such a
thing?

Ewan



once the drive gets noisy (clunking sounds) there will be little time left
....it would really be a waste of time to attempt to use it

otoh: if it was simply a matter of a lot of bad sectors...
it could be lo level formatted and used as a *spare*

Wow, this man is on a mission! While most people would just grab one of
those
WD800JB 80GB 8MB cache drives for $49 after rebates, he
wants to design new hardware using a microcontroller.

It may be a tad OTT, but it would be rather interesting. Besides, this is a
unique opportunity to stop myself from stuffing my disk with files. If I
know it has a limited lifetime, it stays fully reserved as scratch space
only :-)

Besides which, I'm sure I could think of all sorts of fun things to do with
such a device later.

I do not believe the IDE controller, OS drivers, or drive itself was
designed to be hot swapped. Even with your proposed "emulator" in place
at boot, I have a feeling your physical swapping of devices later is not a
good idea.

You know, all of this just reminded me of those IDE hot swap bays. Why
didn't I think of that before? Does anyone know if they are any good for
this task, or are they meant to have a drive in at boot that can be replaced
with another of the same model during operation?

There may not be any spinup commands on IDE drives. If you just attach
the
power connector (no data conn) it will power up immediately if the power
supply is on.

Well, putting power into it seems to work as a spinup command then :-)
There must be some sort of spinup command, because you can set timeouts in
the BIOS. Maybe there's just a spindown or set timeout command. One of the
three, anyway. If there's a spindown command, maybe it can be used to
suppress initial spinup? It's probably part of an unavoidable self-check
sequence though, as you point out.

I hate to shoot down your project, because it would definately be a
learning experience, but you should also face the reality that your drive
may stop functioning before you even finish building your device :/

Nope, it's made those noises for a while, and they aren't very loud, just a
bit dodgy. The drive is currently in my drawer anyway, so it won't be dying
anytime soon.

PS: I'll pass on this thread to you, you may find it helpful when shopping
for
a new hard drive:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...readid=1160291

Thanks for the link anyway, I'll probably end up doing that, but the problem
will still remain that the available reliable storage size (X), my disk
usage (Y), and any size between 0 and 500MB have relationship X=Y-A

I'm far more willing to learn advanced microelectronics than I am self
control.

Ewan

Your trying to save a penny by spending a pound...

If a hard drive is reliable, just use it. If it's not, tag it defective and
toss it out or pile it in the corner where it might be a spare part or
interesting paperweight.

If you can't afford to replace the drive, you definately can't afford to do
what you're proposing.

"Ewan Sinclair" wrote in message
news
You would be trying to power up the device way after the hardware
detection phase of Windows bootup sequence and way past when any driver
for it would load and detect the device.

How easy would it be to fake the presence of the drive? How much
information
does windows need?

If I can record the drive information (either by putting the requisite
signals into the IDE port on the drive and recording the results, or just
by
getting the relevant infofrom the manufacturer), would it be that hard to
build a PIC based device that pretends it is the disk? From there, it's
just
a matter of swapping the connectors and issuing a spinup command I assume.

Does anyone know of a good place to read up on what goes on with detection
and control of IDE devices?

Ewan

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 03:45:33 GMT, "Ewan Sinclair"
wrote:

I've got an old 30GB drive lying around that's on it's last legs and is
making funny noises.

The thing is, I'd rather like to make efficient use of its remaining
operating time. Is there any way to stop a disk spinning up on boot, and
activate it later if you feel like it?

I am assuming you would need some kind of hardware device that mediates
between the IDE bus and power cable, and the disk itself. Is there such a
thing?

Ewan


The most feasible alternative towards your intentions would be an
external USB or firewire drive enclosure, which you only turn on when
needed.

On the other hand I agree with the other posters who feel that this
drive isn't worth the time or data risk at this point. A used 30GB
drive that still works perfectly is only worth $20 at best, maybe only
$10.


Dave

No.

--
DaveW



"Ewan Sinclair" wrote in message
...
I've got an old 30GB drive lying around that's on it's last legs and is
making funny noises.

The thing is, I'd rather like to make efficient use of its remaining
operating time. Is there any way to stop a disk spinning up on boot, and
activate it later if you feel like it?

I am assuming you would need some kind of hardware device that mediates
between the IDE bus and power cable, and the disk itself. Is there such a
thing?

Ewan

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 03:45:33 GMT, "Ewan Sinclair" wrote:

I've got an old 30GB drive lying around that's on it's last legs and is
making funny noises.

The thing is, I'd rather like to make efficient use of its remaining
operating time. Is there any way to stop a disk spinning up on boot, and
activate it later if you feel like it?

I am assuming you would need some kind of hardware device that mediates
between the IDE bus and power cable, and the disk itself. Is there such a
thing?

Ewan


Put it in an external USB (2.0) enclosure, and only power it up when you
need it. It is hot swappable that way. Of course you will have nothing on
it you don't mind losing.

JT