E4300 and 650i overclocking

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
nk.net...
'Core 2 Duo and 680i overclocking'

Or, things my mother never told me.

I have begun assemble my EVGA 680i motherboard / Intel Core 2 Duo system.
With this motherboard (and I imagine it is at least partially true for
other SLI motherboards)

(a.) when you use a single nVidia 8800 class display adapter
(1.) you lose one PCI slot (out of two)
(2.) the CMOS clear jumper can not be accessed without removing
the display adapter
(3.) the on-motherboard power and reset buttons can not be
accessed
(4.) the CMOS battery can not be changed without removing the
display adapter
(5.) one of the chassis fan connections may no longer be usable

(b.) when you add a second nVidia 8800 class display adapter you lose one
PCI-Ex X1 slot (out of two)

(c.) the explanation for the Power LED in the EVGA 680i manual is WRONG;
the header is non-standard; two POWER LED pins are actually are set to
control TWO LEDs, one for POWER and one for STANDBY. Ground for the two
LEDs (or one) must be 'stolen' from another pin (I'll use the GROUND pin
for the HD LED and be thankful for a case that has extra indicator LEDs.

On-motherboard Ethernet ports and on-motherboard audio now seem like a
necessity rather than a luxury.

Phil Weldon


I might see if I can search up some photos for the Asus version and see if I
can compare them with the EVGA offerings. I would 'like' to have a couple of
available PCI slots. I am getting things ready for my order now and will
probably begin my build within a week or so (deciding on components is
driving me nuts). I haven't decided if I will try air cooling first or go
directly to a water cooled setup. I plan on cooling everything with water
including the display adapter and chipsets. I do use flight simulators and a
few racing sims so I will need a higher end video card and I am still trying
to figure out a good water cooling system that will do the job. I presently
use onboard sound and ethernet, but would like to use my PCI card that I
used to use for recording multi-tracks that works well with my sound studio
software. Power and HD activity are the only LEDs I really need. I would
like to find the smallest case that will still handle the water cooling I am
going to need. I know I will need something larger than my present Lian Li
PC-60 series case. Thanks for the info Phil........

Ed

'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
| I might see if I can search up some photos for the Asus version and see if
I
| can compare them with the EVGA offerings. I would 'like' to have a couple
of
| available PCI slots. I am getting things ready for my order now and will
| probably begin my build within a week or so (deciding on components is
| driving me nuts).
_____

ATX +12V rev 2.2 power supplies.

Evidently 'two +12 VDC rails' and 'three +12 VDC rails' are not what they
might seem. One regulator system provides +12 VDC which is then split to
three current sensors. This is because of an ATX +12V rev 2.2 specification
that limits maximum power on any 'rail' before overload protection kicks in
to about 250 Watts. My new Antec Neo HE 550 Watt supply has three +12 VDC
'rails rated at 18 Amperes (500 Watts maximum total +12 VDC power.) The
directions for connections indicates that one rail be used for display
adapter #1 and another rail be used for graphics adapter #2 (if present.)
I'd guess another rail is used for the 8-pin CPU power plug. I'd think that
this power supply is more than adequate for any Core 2 Duo / 2 X 8800 GTS or
1 X 8800 GTX system.

Phil Weldon


"Ed Medlin" wrote in message
t...
|
| "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
| nk.net...
| 'Core 2 Duo and 680i overclocking'
|
| Or, things my mother never told me.
|
| I have begun assemble my EVGA 680i motherboard / Intel Core 2 Duo
system.
| With this motherboard (and I imagine it is at least partially true for
| other SLI motherboards)
|
| (a.) when you use a single nVidia 8800 class display adapter
| (1.) you lose one PCI slot (out of two)
| (2.) the CMOS clear jumper can not be accessed without removing
| the display adapter
| (3.) the on-motherboard power and reset buttons can not be
| accessed
| (4.) the CMOS battery can not be changed without removing the
| display adapter
| (5.) one of the chassis fan connections may no longer be usable
|
| (b.) when you add a second nVidia 8800 class display adapter you lose
one
| PCI-Ex X1 slot (out of two)
|
| (c.) the explanation for the Power LED in the EVGA 680i manual is
WRONG;
| the header is non-standard; two POWER LED pins are actually are set to
| control TWO LEDs, one for POWER and one for STANDBY. Ground for the two
| LEDs (or one) must be 'stolen' from another pin (I'll use the GROUND pin
| for the HD LED and be thankful for a case that has extra indicator LEDs.
|
| On-motherboard Ethernet ports and on-motherboard audio now seem like a
| necessity rather than a luxury.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
|
| I might see if I can search up some photos for the Asus version and see if
I
| can compare them with the EVGA offerings. I would 'like' to have a couple
of
| available PCI slots. I am getting things ready for my order now and will
| probably begin my build within a week or so (deciding on components is
| driving me nuts). I haven't decided if I will try air cooling first or go
| directly to a water cooled setup. I plan on cooling everything with water
| including the display adapter and chipsets. I do use flight simulators and
a
| few racing sims so I will need a higher end video card and I am still
trying
| to figure out a good water cooling system that will do the job. I
presently
| use onboard sound and ethernet, but would like to use my PCI card that I
| used to use for recording multi-tracks that works well with my sound
studio
| software. Power and HD activity are the only LEDs I really need. I would
| like to find the smallest case that will still handle the water cooling I
am
| going to need. I know I will need something larger than my present Lian Li
| PC-60 series case. Thanks for the info Phil........
|
| Ed
|
|

Phil Weldon wrote:
ATX +12V rev 2.2 power supplies.

Evidently 'two +12 VDC rails' and 'three +12 VDC rails' are not what
they might seem. One regulator system provides +12 VDC which is then
split to three current sensors. This is because of an ATX +12V rev
2.2 specification that limits maximum power on any 'rail' before
overload protection kicks in to about 250 Watts. My new Antec Neo HE
550 Watt supply has three +12 VDC 'rails rated at 18 Amperes (500
Watts maximum total +12 VDC power.) The directions for connections
indicates that one rail be used for display adapter #1 and another
rail be used for graphics adapter #2 (if present.) I'd guess another
rail is used for the 8-pin CPU power plug. I'd think that this power
supply is more than adequate for any Core 2 Duo / 2 X 8800 GTS or 1 X
8800 GTX system.

I ordered the Antec Atlas EC 550 server case, which includes an Antec
TruePower 550 2.0. This one features 'two 12 VDC rails'. I guess it'll be
powerful enough for my mainboard + 8800GTS.
http://www.antec.com/ec/productDetails.php?ProdID=01700

Anyone knows if this little case will fil a decent watercooling setup? The
idea of transferring the watercooling equipment is still itching me ;-)

Good luck to all of you on your builds...

--
Met vriendelijke groeten, Thomas vd Horst.

Correction:
When using only one display adapter with the EVGA 680i motherboard it is
placed in the RIGHTMOST PCI-Ex X16 slot, the one nearest the CPU. Don't
know how I got that one backwards B^(

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
link.net...
| 'Ed Medlin' wrote:, in part:
| I have been looking at I965 boards, but have decided to go with the
NV650i
| route instead. I really have no preference as far as performance or
price
| since they both are very close. One of the main reasons is that I would
| like to see how the performance numbers add up using the E4300 (Phil)
and
| the E6600 (me) in overclocking. Using the same basic chipset would be
| comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.
| _____
|
| I seem to have 'buck fever', I can't pull the trigger B^(
|
| I've been prepping the case (Enlight server case, nine 5" bays and 1 3.5"
| bay in the front panel, ~ 8.75" wide X 17.5" high X 25" deep), checking
| component spacing, dressing cables, taking photos, finding technical
| questions in the motherboard documentation. And finishing my taxes.
|
| The front panel header for indicator LEDs and power switches has a
different
| connection for the Power LED. There are two side-by-side pins, one is for
a
| Power LED and the other is for a standby LED; the second terminal for each
| LED must be grounded. My case has plenty of LED indicators in the front
| panel (seven) but of course the Power LED connector from the front panel
is
| a three pin plug with pin 1 and pin 3 connected, one being ground.
|
| With an SLI capable motherboard, when only one graphics board is installed
| it must be in the left most PCI-Ex X16 slot. In the case of the EVGA 680i
| motherboard this slot has one PCI slot between it and the left edge of the
| motherboard. The fan on the EVGA 8800 GTS is then only about an inch from
| the case bottom. I don't know the direction of the air flow, but it seems
| that a new hole in the case bottom will be in order.
|
| The present case fan complement is two 80 mm fans and one 120 mm fan.
|
| One last observation; the ~ 150 page manual doesn't get around to the
| connector and BIOS section until the halfway point. The first half is all
| about the nVidia Windows software functions for over clocking. There are
| nearly two dozen settable parameters for memory alone!
|
| Enjoy.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
| "Ed Medlin" wrote in message
| t...
|
| "Thomas" wrote in message
| .. .
| Phil Weldon wrote:
| 'Ed Medlin' wrote:
| Lets see........Wife and I are going to the Corrales vs Clottey
| boxing match next Sat. Since it is a Showtime fight, tickets and
| parking costs are close to an E6600........LOL..........BTW, I
| think I am going to go the E6600 route in a couple weeks probably
| starting with air cooling and then water. Maybe we can compare some
| benches and see how it all works out. Something tells me that you
| might win out if only in the cooling area. It will be an
| interesting project anyway.
| _____
|
| It'd be great to learn from each other in this experiment. I'm
| looking forward to it. Perhaps others will join in.
|
| Well, I've been looking some more, and figure I'll be going the Intel
965
| way... Mainly financial reasons ;-) Also, I read the NVidia chipsets
use
| way more power than the Intels do. Performance of the 680i *is* better,
| but nearly immeasurably so.
|
| *The shortlist*:
| Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 S775 I965P ATX
| CPU: Intel CORE 2 DUO E4300 1.8GHZ
| Memory: Kingston 2GB 800MHZ DDR2 LOW-LATENCY CL4
| Video: Asus EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M GF8800GTS
| DVD+-RW: Samsung DVD+-R/RW/DL/RAM/LS SATA BULK
| PC case: Antec ATLAS EC: ATLAS EC 550W (truepower) ATX
| Harddisk: Seagate BARRACUDA 7200.10 320GB SATAII
|
| All this for just short of 1000 euro's. I can order it at one supplier
| here in the netherlands.
|
| Any remarks?
|
| --
| Met vriendelijke groeten, Thomas vd Horst.
| I have been looking at I965 boards, but have decided to go with the
NV650i
| route instead. I really have no preference as far as performance or
price
| since they both are very close. One of the main reasons is that I would
| like to see how the performance numbers add up using the E4300 (Phil)
and
| the E6600 (me) in overclocking. Using the same basic chipset would be
| comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. I am going to
try
| and use components as close as I can (maybe different brands) to his
| system just for comparison. Your system looks very good for the price.
It
| is hard to believe that components have come down so much in price since
| my last build. I would go with 4gigs and probably faster memory (for
| overclocking headroom), but 2 should work out fine. I will probably go
| with Vista sometime down the road, but since I have an extra XP Pro here
I
| will use that for now. Vista loves extra memory and will use it. Keep us
| advised and we can compare some notes.
|
|
| Ed
|
|
|
|
|

Correction:
The post should read

'Core 2 Duo and 680i overclocking'

Or, things my mother never told me.

I have begun assemble my EVGA 680i motherboard / Intel Core 2 Duo system.
With this motherboard (and I imagine it is at least partially true for other
SLI motherboards)

(a.) when you use a single nVidia 8800 class display adapter you lose one
PCI-Ex X1 slot (out of two)

(b.) when you add a second nVidia 8800 class display adapter
(1.) you lose one PCI slot (out of two)
(2.) the CMOS clear jumper can not be accessed without removing the
display adapter
(3.) the on-motherboard power and reset buttons can not be accessed
(4.) the CMOS battery can not be changed without removing the
display adapter
(5.) one of the chassis fan connections may no longer be usable

(c.) the explanation for the Power LED in the EVGA 680i manual is WRONG;
the header is non-standard; two POWER LED pins are actually are set to
control TWO LEDs, one for POWER and one for STANDBY. Somehow (magic) when a
standard POWER LED front panel connector is connected with one polarity, the
POWER LED functions as a POWER LED; reverse the polarity and the POWER LED
functions as a STANDBY LED.

On-motherboard Ethernet ports and on-motherboard audio now seem like a
necessity rather than a luxury.



"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
nk.net...
| 'Core 2 Duo and 680i overclocking'
|
| Or, things my mother never told me.
|
| I have begun assemble my EVGA 680i motherboard / Intel Core 2 Duo system.
| With this motherboard (and I imagine it is at least partially true for
other
| SLI motherboards)
|
| (a.) when you use a single nVidia 8800 class display adapter
| (1.) you lose one PCI slot (out of two)
| (2.) the CMOS clear jumper can not be accessed without removing
the
| display adapter
| (3.) the on-motherboard power and reset buttons can not be
accessed
| (4.) the CMOS battery can not be changed without removing the
| display adapter
| (5.) one of the chassis fan connections may no longer be usable
|
| (b.) when you add a second nVidia 8800 class display adapter you lose one
| PCI-Ex X1 slot (out of two)
|
| (c.) the explanation for the Power LED in the EVGA 680i manual is WRONG;
| the header is non-standard; two POWER LED pins are actually are set to
| control TWO LEDs, one for POWER and one for STANDBY. Ground for the two
| LEDs (or one) must be 'stolen' from another pin (I'll use the GROUND pin
for
| the HD LED and be thankful for a case that has extra indicator LEDs.
|
| On-motherboard Ethernet ports and on-motherboard audio now seem like a
| necessity rather than a luxury.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
| "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
| hlink.net...
| 'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
| With that amount of OC'ing settings I am going to take a very hard look
| at them. The price is comparable to the Asus offerings I have seen.
Asus
| has been my choice in MBs over the years, but EVGA has made some good
| inroads. I haven't decided on a case yet. My old Lian Li is going to
| remain housing my current I630 3.0g @ 3.6 system. It has lived through
| probably 5 internal systems and it is several years old. I have been
| looking at some cases that have water cooling already built into them.
Do
| you have any suggestions on a water cooling system or ready-to-go
cases?
| _____
|
| The manual for the nVidia chipset motherboards (at least in the case of
| EVGA) seem to have a great advantage over the manuals for motherboards
| that use other chipsets. nVidia evidently writes the manual.
| Consequently the quality is much better. And the text does not seem to
| have been translated back and forth among several languages. At least
for
| those whose first language speakers. I'd hope the much greater
resources
| of nVidia also result in better quality translations. Of course a few
of
| the pitfalls of technical writing still crop up. (The ASUS 650i
| motherboard manual seems well written but is far less helpful.) nVidia
| also has overclocking manuals available for download.
|
| The April "Maximum PC" has a review of ten system cases in the $130 -
$300
| range, at least on of which has grommetted holes for water cooling
tubes.
| Convertible 19" rack mount server cases are very deep, leaving room for
| placing the entire water cooling system within the case (that
|
| When I move from air to water I'll a mix of components, most of which
| aren't meant for CPU cooling. The only part I am dissatisfied with is
the
| pump. I have a Thermaltake water cooling system, I consider the radiator
| far too small and the pump inadequate. I have three CPU water blocks
| ranging from crude (drilled and tapped copper) to OK. I have two
aquarium
| pumps with much greater flow, but I don't like that the aquarium pumps
are
| 120 VAC (but still smaller than a fist.) Now that CPU power consumption
| has dropped I'll consider using two air cooled Peltier arrays on either
| side of the drilled/tapped copper water block with the cooled water
pumped
| through the CPU water block.
|
| There is a very interesting connection system, 'Luer Lock'. The
| connectors are used for liquid transfer (intravenous drips and syringe
| needles for example.) A great variety is available; adaptors for
plastic
| tubing, valves, tees four-way connectors, manifolds, .... The 'lock' is
| very positive and fluid tight, yet easy to engage/disengage.
| Unfortunately the internal diameter for fluid flow is only ~ 1/8 inch.
| That may require multiple tubes and/or higher pressures. At any rate I
| have dozens of these, some pretty exotic.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
|
| "Ed Medlin" wrote in message
| . net...
| I seem to have 'buck fever', I can't pull the trigger B^(
|
| I've been prepping the case (Enlight server case, nine 5" bays and 1
| 3.5" bay in the front panel, ~ 8.75" wide X 17.5" high X 25" deep),
| checking component spacing, dressing cables, taking photos, finding
| technical questions in the motherboard documentation. And finishing
my
| taxes.
|
| Yep.....That is what I am in the middle of too. I sure as hell wish I
had
| started earlier (say that every year).
|
| The front panel header for indicator LEDs and power switches has a
| different connection for the Power LED. There are two side-by-side
| pins, one is for a Power LED and the other is for a standby LED; the
| second terminal for each LED must be grounded. My case has plenty of
| LED indicators in the front panel (seven) but of course the Power LED
| connector from the front panel is a three pin plug with pin 1 and pin
3
| connected, one being ground.
|
| With an SLI capable motherboard, when only one graphics board is
| installed it must be in the left most PCI-Ex X16 slot. In the case of
| the EVGA 680i motherboard this slot has one PCI slot between it and
the
| left edge of the motherboard. The fan on the EVGA 8800 GTS is then
only
| about an inch from the case bottom. I don't know the direction of the
| air flow, but it seems that a new hole in the case bottom will be in
| order.
|
| Yea. They put out about as much heat as the C2D probably.
|
| The present case fan complement is two 80 mm fans and one 120 mm fan.
|
| One last observation; the ~ 150 page manual doesn't get around to the
| connector and BIOS section until the halfway point. The first half is
| all about the nVidia Windows software functions for over clocking.
| There are nearly two dozen settable parameters for memory alone!
|
| Enjoy.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
| With that amount of OC'ing settings I am going to take a very hard look
| at them. The price is comparable to the Asus offerings I have seen.
Asus
| has been my choice in MBs over the years, but EVGA has made some good
| inroads. I haven't decided on a case yet. My old Lian Li is going to
| remain housing my current I630 3.0g @ 3.6 system. It has lived through
| probably 5 internal systems and it is several years old. I have been
| looking at some cases that have water cooling already built into them.
Do
| you have any suggestions on a water cooling system or ready-to-go
cases?
| My old water cooling system is in a drawer and all over the place. I
need
| to get new tubing and probably add at least 2-3 blocks so it is
probably
| better, and even maybe cheaper to just start anew. I even found a
couple
| of Peltiers in there...:-). I doubt if I will use them, but it is an
| option if I try and get crazy.......:-). I can't find any markings on
| them, so I don't have any idea on their wattage or if they even match.
I
| do have an auxiliary PSU that I used with Peltiers in the past that
fits
| into a PCI slot that uses external power that I used with Peltiers in
the
| past. It even has a thermistor and will control fans' speed and will
run
| 2-3 case fans too. It is a neat little item that Thermaltake made some
| 5-6 yrs ago for a short time.
|
| Ed
|
|
|
|
|

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
| I might see if I can search up some photos for the Asus version and see
if
I
| can compare them with the EVGA offerings. I would 'like' to have a
couple
of
| available PCI slots. I am getting things ready for my order now and will
| probably begin my build within a week or so (deciding on components is
| driving me nuts).
_____

ATX +12V rev 2.2 power supplies.

Evidently 'two +12 VDC rails' and 'three +12 VDC rails' are not what they
might seem. One regulator system provides +12 VDC which is then split to
three current sensors. This is because of an ATX +12V rev 2.2
specification
that limits maximum power on any 'rail' before overload protection kicks
in
to about 250 Watts. My new Antec Neo HE 550 Watt supply has three +12 VDC
'rails rated at 18 Amperes (500 Watts maximum total +12 VDC power.) The
directions for connections indicates that one rail be used for display
adapter #1 and another rail be used for graphics adapter #2 (if present.)
I'd guess another rail is used for the 8-pin CPU power plug. I'd think
that
this power supply is more than adequate for any Core 2 Duo / 2 X 8800 GTS
or
1 X 8800 GTX system.

Phil Weldon


I have pretty much got everything together now except I just can't decide on
a case and water cooling system. I am going with the i680 from Asus with
onboard sound and lan (just in case I lose PCI slots). I decided on going
the SLI route with 2x 8800 GTS rather than a single GTX because of some of
the success folks have had with simulators with that setup. 2gb of ram
should do me fine and I am still looking for the fastest I can find to try
and keep my memory bandwidth up with the higher fsb of the E6600. I would
like to water cool the GPUs of both adapters and am trying to figure out how
many watts of heat I am looking at getting rid of with this setup. I know it
will be over 500w and maybe even 700. I don't want to "daisy chain" much. I
might do the chipset and CPU and then another line for the GPUs. I saw some
water blocks for the video memory, but don't know if that would be a
necessity. I want to see just how quiet I can get this system along with a
decent OC. I thought I had a good, new power supply but it turns out it is a
20 pin rather than 24. It is a MadDog (rebranded PC P & C) 550 so that is
out. I am going with 4x 500gb WDs (no Raptors) because a large part of what
I do is video processing and large HDD capacity is a must for me. I might
add one 250gb WD drive I have already for OS and apps and set up two raid0
arrays for video rendering and temp storage. The Antec Neo HE 550 should do
fine and is available as an option with several of the cases I have looked
at. I really thought I would have my order in by now, but when I start
looking around my mind gets changed, it seems, about every
5mins..........:-). Any recomendations on case and cooling you have might
help...lol. I haven't done any water cooling in years, so I get bogged down
pretty easily on the water cooling sites.

Ed

'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
Any recomendations on case and cooling you have might help...lol. I
haven't done any water cooling in years, so I get bogged down pretty
easily on the water cooling sites.
_____

I've just gotten 'first light' from my E4300 / 680i / 8800 GTS system. I'll
try to rush out some numbers that might help you with a cooling solution.

About the FOUR 500 GByte hard drives (I went with one 500 GByte Seagate and
another half-TByte of recycled PATA drives), my one 500 GByte SATA required
4 HOURS to format before I installed Windows XP Pro. So enjoy B^)

When I first booted up, prior to installing the OS, I found that the CPU was
idling at 71 C! Not very pleased, I unshipped the heatsink and found the
Intel supplied thermal compound to be caked and not well spread (the Intel
supplied heatsink came with three stripes of thermal compound applied.) The
machined finish of heatsink where the metal meets the CPU is the best I've
seen, so I removed the Intel thermal compound and replaced it with a very
small amount of zinc oxide / ester base thermal compound. This time idle
temperature was 31 (input air temperature 26 C.) Also while in the BIOS the
system temperature was 34 C and the chipset temperature was 44 C. The
cooling fans (CPU, chipset, 8800 GTS) were VERY quiet, with the chipset fan
the loudest (~6000 rpm vs. ~1100 for the CPU fan.) This was with the fan
speeds set to manual and 100%. I had no control over the 8800 GTS fan at
this point; it ran at a very low speed. I don't see an improved air cooling
heatsink for the 8800 GTS or GTX being very useful; there just isn't much
room to get more air IN, especially with SLI. Barring exotics,
water-cooling would seem to be required for improvement, and the elaborate
waterblock necessary is going to be EXPENSIVE. However, with the GTS, if
you can get enough air into the case, the 8800 GTS fan should cool nicely as
it is a squirrel-cage blower type and can move air at INCHES pressure rather
than hundredths of inches as do the typical heatsink fan (air pressure
measured in inches of water, with 32 feet being one atmosphere, a typical
pipe organ might require air at ~ 7 inches.

At the moment it seems improving chipset cooling is a big priority. If
stock air cooling (with lots of fresh cool case air) is sufficient for the
8800 GTS SLI pair, that should reduce the water cooling capital cost by two
thirds or more (1/4 the heat dissipation to handle and much less elaborate
heatsinks) if only the CPU and chipset are cooled.

Thermometers:
Harbor Freight ( http://www.harborfreight.com ) has several non-contact
thermometers ranging in price from $7 to $40 US. I just ordered one of the
$7 models. Harbor Freight also has some inexpensive thermometers for
liquids.

As always, the best case is one you actually HAVE. Pull the trigger
already. The nice thing about convertible rackmount case is the big chunk
of space between the front of the motherboard and the rear of the drives.
That chunk is 7.5 inches X 7.5 inches X 16.5 inches in my Enlight cases (w/
ATX motherboard.)

Phil Weldon


"Ed Medlin" wrote in message
. net...

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
| I might see if I can search up some photos for the Asus version and see
if
I
| can compare them with the EVGA offerings. I would 'like' to have a
couple
of
| available PCI slots. I am getting things ready for my order now and
will
| probably begin my build within a week or so (deciding on components is
| driving me nuts).
_____

ATX +12V rev 2.2 power supplies.

Evidently 'two +12 VDC rails' and 'three +12 VDC rails' are not what they
might seem. One regulator system provides +12 VDC which is then split to
three current sensors. This is because of an ATX +12V rev 2.2
specification
that limits maximum power on any 'rail' before overload protection kicks
in
to about 250 Watts. My new Antec Neo HE 550 Watt supply has three +12
VDC
'rails rated at 18 Amperes (500 Watts maximum total +12 VDC power.) The
directions for connections indicates that one rail be used for display
adapter #1 and another rail be used for graphics adapter #2 (if present.)
I'd guess another rail is used for the 8-pin CPU power plug. I'd think
that
this power supply is more than adequate for any Core 2 Duo / 2 X 8800 GTS
or
1 X 8800 GTX system.

Phil Weldon


I have pretty much got everything together now except I just can't decide
on a case and water cooling system. I am going with the i680 from Asus
with onboard sound and lan (just in case I lose PCI slots). I decided on
going the SLI route with 2x 8800 GTS rather than a single GTX because of
some of the success folks have had with simulators with that setup. 2gb of
ram should do me fine and I am still looking for the fastest I can find to
try and keep my memory bandwidth up with the higher fsb of the E6600. I
would like to water cool the GPUs of both adapters and am trying to figure
out how many watts of heat I am looking at getting rid of with this setup.
I know it will be over 500w and maybe even 700. I don't want to "daisy
chain" much. I might do the chipset and CPU and then another line for the
GPUs. I saw some water blocks for the video memory, but don't know if that
would be a necessity. I want to see just how quiet I can get this system
along with a decent OC. I thought I had a good, new power supply but it
turns out it is a 20 pin rather than 24. It is a MadDog (rebranded PC P &
C) 550 so that is out. I am going with 4x 500gb WDs (no Raptors) because a
large part of what I do is video processing and large HDD capacity is a
must for me. I might add one 250gb WD drive I have already for OS and apps
and set up two raid0 arrays for video rendering and temp storage. The
Antec Neo HE 550 should do fine and is available as an option with several
of the cases I have looked at. I really thought I would have my order in
by now, but when I start looking around my mind gets changed, it seems,
about every 5mins..........:-). Any recomendations on case and cooling you
have might help...lol. I haven't done any water cooling in years, so I get
bogged down pretty easily on the water cooling sites.

Ed

Early temperatures from my E4300 / EVGA 680i / EVGA 8800 GTS / Patriot
PC8500 SLI ready memory:

After 10 minutes of the nTune stress test (all components) the end
temperatures were
CPU: 37 C
System: 34 C
GPU: 50 C.

The side of the case was open and the air temperature was 23 C.

All settings were stock. Memory settings (from the SPD) were 1066 MHz bus
speed and 2.3 volts.
Voltage: 2.3 VDC.

At this point I have no idea what the stress test includes, and how fan
speed control works - in the BIOS I had set the fan speeds to manual and to
100%, but the CPU fan speed at the end of the 10 minute stress test was more
than twice the CPU fan speed reported by the BIOS with the 100% manual
setting.

At the moment only Windows XP Pro (without service packs and updates) plus
nVidia drivers are installed.

Now I need to read enough to understand how to use the stress test and
interpret the results.

Phil Weldon

"Ed Medlin" wrote in message
. net...
|
| "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
| ink.net...
| 'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
| | I might see if I can search up some photos for the Asus version and
see
| if
| I
| | can compare them with the EVGA offerings. I would 'like' to have a
| couple
| of
| | available PCI slots. I am getting things ready for my order now and
will
| | probably begin my build within a week or so (deciding on components is
| | driving me nuts).
| _____
|
| ATX +12V rev 2.2 power supplies.
|
| Evidently 'two +12 VDC rails' and 'three +12 VDC rails' are not what
they
| might seem. One regulator system provides +12 VDC which is then split
to
| three current sensors. This is because of an ATX +12V rev 2.2
| specification
| that limits maximum power on any 'rail' before overload protection kicks
| in
| to about 250 Watts. My new Antec Neo HE 550 Watt supply has three +12
VDC
| 'rails rated at 18 Amperes (500 Watts maximum total +12 VDC power.) The
| directions for connections indicates that one rail be used for display
| adapter #1 and another rail be used for graphics adapter #2 (if
present.)
| I'd guess another rail is used for the 8-pin CPU power plug. I'd think
| that
| this power supply is more than adequate for any Core 2 Duo / 2 X 8800
GTS
| or
| 1 X 8800 GTX system.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
|
| I have pretty much got everything together now except I just can't decide
on
| a case and water cooling system. I am going with the i680 from Asus with
| onboard sound and lan (just in case I lose PCI slots). I decided on going
| the SLI route with 2x 8800 GTS rather than a single GTX because of some of
| the success folks have had with simulators with that setup. 2gb of ram
| should do me fine and I am still looking for the fastest I can find to try
| and keep my memory bandwidth up with the higher fsb of the E6600. I would
| like to water cool the GPUs of both adapters and am trying to figure out
how
| many watts of heat I am looking at getting rid of with this setup. I know
it
| will be over 500w and maybe even 700. I don't want to "daisy chain" much.
I
| might do the chipset and CPU and then another line for the GPUs. I saw
some
| water blocks for the video memory, but don't know if that would be a
| necessity. I want to see just how quiet I can get this system along with a
| decent OC. I thought I had a good, new power supply but it turns out it is
a
| 20 pin rather than 24. It is a MadDog (rebranded PC P & C) 550 so that is
| out. I am going with 4x 500gb WDs (no Raptors) because a large part of
what
| I do is video processing and large HDD capacity is a must for me. I might
| add one 250gb WD drive I have already for OS and apps and set up two raid0
| arrays for video rendering and temp storage. The Antec Neo HE 550 should
do
| fine and is available as an option with several of the cases I have looked
| at. I really thought I would have my order in by now, but when I start
| looking around my mind gets changed, it seems, about every
| 5mins..........:-). Any recomendations on case and cooling you have might
| help...lol. I haven't done any water cooling in years, so I get bogged
down
| pretty easily on the water cooling sites.
|
| Ed
|
|

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
link.net...
'Ed Medlin' wrote, in part:
Any recomendations on case and cooling you have might help...lol. I
haven't done any water cooling in years, so I get bogged down pretty
easily on the water cooling sites.
_____

I've just gotten 'first light' from my E4300 / 680i / 8800 GTS system.
I'll try to rush out some numbers that might help you with a cooling
solution.

About the FOUR 500 GByte hard drives (I went with one 500 GByte Seagate
and another half-TByte of recycled PATA drives), my one 500 GByte SATA
required 4 HOURS to format before I installed Windows XP Pro. So enjoy
B^)

Yep........been there and done that.......:-) I guess that is just one of
the downfalls of doing what I do.

When I first booted up, prior to installing the OS, I found that the CPU
was idling at 71 C! Not very pleased, I unshipped the heatsink and found
the Intel supplied thermal compound to be caked and not well spread (the
Intel supplied heatsink came with three stripes of thermal compound
applied.) The machined finish of heatsink where the metal meets the CPU
is the best I've seen, so I removed the Intel thermal compound and
replaced it with a very small amount of zinc oxide / ester base thermal
compound. This time idle temperature was 31 (input air temperature 26 C.)
Also while in the BIOS the system temperature was 34 C and the chipset
temperature was 44 C. The cooling fans (CPU, chipset, 8800 GTS) were VERY
quiet, with the chipset fan the loudest (~6000 rpm vs. ~1100 for the CPU
fan.) This was with the fan speeds set to manual and 100%. I had no
control over the 8800 GTS fan at this point; it ran at a very low speed.
I don't see an improved air cooling heatsink for the 8800 GTS or GTX being
very useful; there just isn't much room to get more air IN, especially
with SLI. Barring exotics, water-cooling would seem to be required for
improvement, and the elaborate waterblock necessary is going to be
EXPENSIVE. However, with the GTS, if you can get enough air into the
case, the 8800 GTS fan should cool nicely as it is a squirrel-cage blower
type and can move air at INCHES pressure rather than hundredths of inches
as do the typical heatsink fan (air pressure measured in inches of water,
with 32 feet being one atmosphere, a typical pipe organ might require air
at ~ 7 inches.

I guess I have developed a ritual over the years when it comes down to
the stock HS/Fan on about
any processor and automatically clean and replace HS compound. Like I think
I have told you in the past,
my local computer shop gives me a free tube of Artic Silver (it ain't
better, it is free....:-) everytime I buy anything.

At the moment it seems improving chipset cooling is a big priority. If
stock air cooling (with lots of fresh cool case air) is sufficient for the
8800 GTS SLI pair, that should reduce the water cooling capital cost by
two thirds or more (1/4 the heat dissipation to handle and much less
elaborate heatsinks) if only the CPU and chipset are cooled.

After looking at the cost of water cooling a couple of 8800 GTS cards, I
will probably just do the
CPU and chipset. Water cooling them can bring the total cost of a water
cooling system up very high. I was just concerned about
the noise of a pair of 8800 GTS cards, but if it is not an issue, I will
leave it as is.

Thermometers:
Harbor Freight ( http://www.harborfreight.com ) has several non-contact
thermometers ranging in price from $7 to $40 US. I just ordered one of
the $7 models. Harbor Freight also has some inexpensive thermometers for
liquids.

As always, the best case is one you actually HAVE. Pull the trigger
already. The nice thing about convertible rackmount case is the big chunk
of space between the front of the motherboard and the rear of the drives.
That chunk is 7.5 inches X 7.5 inches X 16.5 inches in my Enlight cases
(w/ ATX motherboard.)

Phil Weldon

Jeeze.......it is snowing like crazy outside right now and I am worried
about cooling.........:-)
Kind of a rare thing here in the Ozarks in mid April... I am going to go
ahead and order. I have a case picked out that
will handle about all the water cooling I will need and will just go with
air at the moment and decide on the water
cooling later. If it is quiet enough and I can get a good, stable OC I may
just stay with it.


Ed

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
Early temperatures from my E4300 / EVGA 680i / EVGA 8800 GTS / Patriot
PC8500 SLI ready memory:

After 10 minutes of the nTune stress test (all components) the end
temperatures were
CPU: 37 C
System: 34 C
GPU: 50 C.

The side of the case was open and the air temperature was 23 C.

All settings were stock. Memory settings (from the SPD) were 1066 MHz bus
speed and 2.3 volts.
Voltage: 2.3 VDC.

At this point I have no idea what the stress test includes, and how fan
speed control works - in the BIOS I had set the fan speeds to manual and
to
100%, but the CPU fan speed at the end of the 10 minute stress test was
more
than twice the CPU fan speed reported by the BIOS with the 100% manual
setting.

At the moment only Windows XP Pro (without service packs and updates) plus
nVidia drivers are installed.

Now I need to read enough to understand how to use the stress test and
interpret the results.

Phil Weldon


Great temps. With a good case and good airflow, you might even see a
decrease when you close it up. I am not familiar with nTune's stress test,
but you cannot beat those temps if it stressing the CPU. How much noise are
you hearing with the stock fan and the video card fan?

Ed