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D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 18th 06, 04:52 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

Please review the following before responding:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/

I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would be?
The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I not
be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does that
have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all the
time.

I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english explanation.
Thanks a bunch!

Chalky, J.D.


  #2  
Old May 18th 06, 05:42 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

Overclocking chips usually requires running them at higher voltages then
normal,
which will shorten the lifespan of the chip, which could mean that instead
of working for 6-10 years
it might burnout after 4 years.
Or overclocking could shorten the CPUs lifespan to working only for several
months.
I'm sure someone has had an overclocked chip burnout after only a few weeks.
You also could spend hours tweaking to get just a few extra MHz out of a
CPU.
You also spend $60 for a Zalman cooler, which is money you could have just
spent on a faster CPU.
And I'm sure there are a few 805 Ds that will never overclock to 4.0 GHz.
When my D 805 and Asus P5P800SE arrive this week, I'll be happy if it
overclocks to 3.6 GHz and with the stock cooler.

"Chalky" wrote in message
...
Please review the following before responding:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/

I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would be?
The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I not
be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does that
have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all the
time.

I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english explanation.
Thanks a bunch!

Chalky, J.D.





  #3  
Old May 18th 06, 06:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

'Chalky' wrote, in part:
| I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
| self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
| downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would be?

The downside of expecting to overclock an Intel 805 D CPU is that it isn't
guaranteed to be stable at that speed. And you may very well end up paying
more for a water cooling system than for the 805 D. As long as you enjoy
tinkering with parameters and hardware then the fun is in the chase. Stable
performance at 4 GHz is icing on the cake. Overheating will just halt an
Intel CPU with no damage done. On the other hand, you must be VERY careful
in increasing the CPU core voltage (certainly no more than 10% or so, and
that in small increments); too high a CPU core voltage can instantly
destroy any CPU.

| Based on tomshardware, it
| seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does that
| have implications other than needing a bigger power supply?

The Tom's Hardware power consumption figures would be a lot more useful if
the 805 D power consumption were separated from the rest of the system.

BUT, using his figure of ~ 400 Watts for the complete system under load at 4
GHz, vs. ~ 260 Watts at the stock 2.66 GHz, the extra power drawn is 140
Watts.
Electricity costs differ from location to location. In Atlanta the
incremental cost per KWH is $0.07 US.
So in Atlanta, the extra 140 Watts would cost (140 /1000) X $0.07 US = $0.01
US per hour, $0.24 US per day, $7.30 per month.

Some additional comments:
#1. Unless you have your computer doing work unattended, there is no reason
to leave it on all the time; you can set up 'Standby' to save RAM, video
memory, and system state to disk, and then cut off. Restarting from that
'Standby' takes little more than the time for the BIOS to boot; loading
Windows (if that is the Operating System you use) takes only 5 or 10
seconds.
#2. You don't have to go for the whole 4 GHz; 3.5 GHz is a very
respectable overclock, and you can work your way higher over time.
#3. The next CPU feature size from Intel will use much less power, so if
you don't need to build a new system today, see what is announced for the
3rd and 4th quarters of 2006.
#4. Take anything you read in 'Tom's Hardware with a grain of salt.
Posting to this newsgroup is a good reality check.

And here is an overclocking guide I've posted several time in this
newsgroup; it doesn't take into account the newest Intel CPUs, but the
methods and procedures for overclocking are similar.

All Pentium CPUs can be overclocked; some do better than others.

If the motherboard is 'overclocking friendly',
an Intel CPU is very easy to overclock. If the motherboard is NOT
'overclocking friendly' the task is much more difficult. If your
motherboard is 'overclocking friendly' the manual likely gives all the
information necessary to overclock, though the manual may have been
transplanted back and forth among several languages, and the information may
be a bit confusing.

#1. Raising the CPU voltage can destroy your CPU. NEVER raise the CPU
voltage more than 15%, and if you do raise it, do it in very small steps.

#2. Raising the CPU clock speed will NOT damage your Intel CPU,
motherboard, memory, or anything else. If you raise the clock speed too
much, the system will either to run in a stable manner, or will fail to
boot. This is not a problem because either the BIOS will automatically
reset to default values or there will be directions in the manual on how to
reset to default speeds.

#3. In overclocking, make any changes in small steps, checking for proper
operation after each change.

#4. Overclocking works best when the CPU temperature is kept as low as
possible.

#5. Intel CPUs can ONLY be overclocked by raising the clock speed. Even if
the multiplier can be set in the BIOS, changing this settings has NO effect.

#6. Some older motherboards may report an incorrect speed for CPUs that
have a higher speed than available when the BIOS was installed.

#7. Intel CPUs have a quad-pumped memory bus; that means data is
transferred
four times for each clock cycle; for a 533 MHz FrontSide Bus speed the clock
speed is 133 MHz. That 133 MHz clock speed is multiplied by a factor FIXED
and UNCHANGABLE inside the CPU to give the overall CPU clock speed. For
your 2660 MHz CPU, the multiplier is X 20 (133 MHz X 20 = 2660 MHZ.)

#8. The rated speed of the installed memory can limit the overclock.
Memory can be overclocked, but it will eventually reach a limit. Faster
memory can be installed, but the cost may not be worth it. The memory clock
can be set to a lower ratio (with some motherboards) to allow higher clock
speeds, but there is a performance penalty.

How you overclock depends on the specifics of your system, how much patience
you have, and much attention you pay to details.

A general approach:

* Download and install MotherBoard Monitor 5 (free) at
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/ . This will allow you to monitor and
record the CPU speeds, fan speeds, CPU temperature (and perhaps motherboard,
memory, and other temperatures, and voltages.)

* Download and install SiSoft Sandra (free) at
http://www.sisoftware.net/ . This program is a collection of
information gathering applets for your system. It also has low level tests
of performance, as well as stress tests (necessary to establish proper
operation when the CPU is operating at full capacity. I find version 2004
more useful than 2005, but 2004 is hard to find now.

* Use MotherBoard Monitor 4 and SiSoft Sandra because the vast majority of
the people who use this forum also use these applications

* Read the manual carefully.

* Clean the heatsink fins, and fans of all dust, grease, and dirt.

* Write down the settings in the BIOS.

* Write down the temperature and voltage information from SiSoft Sandra.

* Check the voltages reported by MotherBoard Monitor 5 for you system. If
any are outside the specifications this may affect the operation of your
system, especially if it is overclocked. Also check the total rated output
of your power supply, if it is marginal, overclocking (since more power is
required) may also be marginal.

* Steps for overclocking your Intel CPU (only after completing the above
recommendations):

#0. The standard setup for PCI bus and AGP bus speeds are fractions of
the clock speed. Make sure the PCI/AGP Bus speeds are instead locked at 33
MHz/67 MHz; if the PCI bus speed is more than 36 MHz corruption of data on
your hard drives can occur.

#1. Increase the clock speed by 5%.

#2. Reboot and check for operation.

#3. If #2 is successful, repeat #1.

#4. If #2 is not successful, raise the CPU core voltage by 0.05 volts
(in NO case raise this voltage to more than a total of 15%, doing so may
instantly destroy your CPU; when the core voltage reaches this limit go to
#6.)

#5. Go to #2.

#6. You have reached the limit of overclocking without changing other
factors which may include CPU cooling, System cooling, memory settings.
Installing memory capable of higher clock speeds may help. On the other
hand, some of these changes may be expensive, and not worth the money for
the possible performance increase.


* After reaching the highest speed, check operation under full CPU load (use
SiSoft Sandra burn-in, other burn-in programs, or intense action 3D
accelerated first-person shooter games.) If the system is not stable under
heavy load, try reducing the clock speed and/or CPU core voltage (higher
voltage means higher operating temperatures.)

* Check the installation of the CPU heatsink; new heatsink compound may help
CPU cooling.

* A better than stock heatsink/fan may aid overclocking.

* Improved system cooling may aid overclocking.

* Exotic cooling of the CPU to room temperature or below can significantly
increase top speeds (or not, depending on the individual CPU speed, memory
quality, and motherboard.)

WARNINGS!!!
* Increasing the CPU voltage above 15% over specifications is likely to
INSTANTLY destroy the CPU
* There is always a chance that when you start fooling around inside the
system case of your computer that you may cause damage (the butterfinger
factor.)

You can find a LOT of additional information on the Internet, including the
speeds that others overclockers have reached with your model CPU. One
question you must ask yourself is WHY you wish to overclock; I can think of
three reasons:

#1. Higher performance at little or no expense with your present
system.

#2. Just because you can, and enjoy experimenting

#3. Bragging rights - the highest possible speeds (which is going to
require a LOT more money.

Don't let this long list intimidate you; just go along step by step.

I am posting this on a system using
aBit TH7-II (Intel 850 chipset) motherboard
Pentium 4 2.6 GHz 400 MHz FSB Northwood CPU
PC800 RDRAM 640 MBytes
Stock CPU cooling
450 Watt Antec Power Supply

I selected a clock speed in the BIOS of 121 MHz, giving a CPU speed of 121
MHz X 26 = 3146 MHz. The CPU will overclock to a higher speed, but the
memory will not. To reach a higher CPU speed requires setting the memory
clock/CPU clock ratio to other than 1, which reduces performance. Since I
just want improved AND reliable performance and not the highest possible
clock speed, 3146 suits me fine, though with async setting 3.5 GHz is easily
reached.

Phil Weldon


"Chalky" wrote in message
...
| Please review the following before responding:
| http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/
|
| I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
| self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
| downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would be?
| The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
| setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I not
| be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
| seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does that
| have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
| expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all the
| time.
|
| I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english explanation.
| Thanks a bunch!
|
| Chalky, J.D.
|
|


  #4  
Old May 18th 06, 06:07 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

'Tod' wrote, in part:
| Overclocking chips usually requires running them at higher voltages then
| normal,
| which will shorten the lifespan of the chip, which could mean that instead
| of working for 6-10 years
| it might burnout after 4 years.
_____

When you find a report of ANY Intel CPU 'burning out' because of
overclocking, please post the news here. Raising the CPU core voltage too
high will 'burn out' a CPU, but instantly. But that is another issue.

I agree with you about your expectations for 3.6 GHz for your new system.
That is a reasonable, inexpensive overclock; anything more is just gravy.

Phil Weldon

"tod" wrote in message
k.net...
| Overclocking chips usually requires running them at higher voltages then
| normal,
| which will shorten the lifespan of the chip, which could mean that instead
| of working for 6-10 years
| it might burnout after 4 years.
| Or overclocking could shorten the CPUs lifespan to working only for
several
| months.
| I'm sure someone has had an overclocked chip burnout after only a few
weeks.
| You also could spend hours tweaking to get just a few extra MHz out of a
| CPU.
| You also spend $60 for a Zalman cooler, which is money you could have just
| spent on a faster CPU.
| And I'm sure there are a few 805 Ds that will never overclock to 4.0 GHz.
| When my D 805 and Asus P5P800SE arrive this week, I'll be happy if it
| overclocks to 3.6 GHz and with the stock cooler.


  #5  
Old May 18th 06, 06:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message k.net...
'Tod' wrote, in part:
| Overclocking chips usually requires running them at higher voltages then
| normal,
| which will shorten the lifespan of the chip, which could mean that instead
| of working for 6-10 years
| it might burnout after 4 years.
_____

When you find a report of ANY Intel CPU 'burning out' because of
overclocking, please post the news here. Raising the CPU core voltage too
high will 'burn out' a CPU, but instantly. But that is another issue.


It's also a crock of ****. E.g. P4 Northwoods overvolted past 1.7V
could croak in a day, week, month or year. Rarely "instantly".


  #6  
Old May 18th 06, 12:13 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

'Jack F. Twist' wrote, in part:
| It's also a crock of ****. E.g. P4 Northwoods overvolted past 1.7V
| could croak in a day, week, month or year. Rarely "instantly".
_____

And your evidence? Anywhere?

Phil Weldon

"Jack F. Twist" wrote in message
news | "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
k.net...
| 'Tod' wrote, in part:
| | Overclocking chips usually requires running them at higher voltages
then
| | normal,
| | which will shorten the lifespan of the chip, which could mean that
instead
| | of working for 6-10 years
| | it might burnout after 4 years.
| _____
|
| When you find a report of ANY Intel CPU 'burning out' because of
| overclocking, please post the news here. Raising the CPU core voltage
too
| high will 'burn out' a CPU, but instantly. But that is another issue.
|
| It's also a crock of ****. E.g. P4 Northwoods overvolted past 1.7V
| could croak in a day, week, month or year. Rarely "instantly".
|
|


  #7  
Old May 18th 06, 03:58 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message k.net...
'Jack F. Twist' wrote, in part:
| It's also a crock of ****. E.g. P4 Northwoods overvolted past 1.7V
| could croak in a day, week, month or year. Rarely "instantly".
_____

And your evidence? Anywhere?


Google for 'northwood death syndrome' and take your pick.


  #8  
Old May 18th 06, 10:22 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

'Jack F. Twist' wrote:
| Google for 'northwood death syndrome' and take your pick.
_____

Sorry, but 'google hits' don't qualify as evidence, and 'everywhere' (for
which 34,000 hits qualifies) is 'nowhere'.

Phil Weldon

"Jack F. Twist" wrote in message
k.net...
| "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
k.net...
| 'Jack F. Twist' wrote, in part:
| | It's also a crock of ****. E.g. P4 Northwoods overvolted past 1.7V
| | could croak in a day, week, month or year. Rarely "instantly".
| _____
|
| And your evidence? Anywhere?
|
| Google for 'northwood death syndrome' and take your pick.
|
|


  #9  
Old May 18th 06, 10:34 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
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Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

Ok then, here are a few specific links:

The Official Northwood Death Syndrome Thread
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=115166

Detailed explanation of why NDS doesn't cause "instant" CPU failures:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/news6375.html

You're free to not read as much as you want. :-)

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message k.net...
'Jack F. Twist' wrote:
| Google for 'northwood death syndrome' and take your pick.
_____

Sorry, but 'google hits' don't qualify as evidence, and 'everywhere' (for
which 34,000 hits qualifies) is 'nowhere'.

Phil Weldon

"Jack F. Twist" wrote in message
k.net...
| "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
k.net...
| 'Jack F. Twist' wrote, in part:
| | It's also a crock of ****. E.g. P4 Northwoods overvolted past 1.7V
| | could croak in a day, week, month or year. Rarely "instantly".
| _____
|
| And your evidence? Anywhere?
|
| Google for 'northwood death syndrome' and take your pick.
|
|




  #10  
Old May 19th 06, 12:13 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.overclocking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

'Jack F. Twist' wrote:
| Ok then, here are a few specific links:
|
| The Official Northwood Death Syndrome Thread
| http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=115166
|
| Detailed explanation of why NDS doesn't cause "instant" CPU failures:
| http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/news6375.html
|
| You're free to not read as much as you want. :-)
_____

You miss the point of evidence and explanation.
And the effect of voltage on transistors.
As do you and the posters and the essayist at the URL you posted.

And you also miss the distinction between the effect of heat and the effect
of voltage on Intel CPUs.

Phil Weldon

"Jack F. Twist" wrote in message
nk.net...
| Ok then, here are a few specific links:
|
| The Official Northwood Death Syndrome Thread
| http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=115166
|
| Detailed explanation of why NDS doesn't cause "instant" CPU failures:
| http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/news6375.html
|
| You're free to not read as much as you want. :-)
|
|


 




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