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New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 11th 13, 12:54 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, posted
on Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:25:31 -0800 (PST) the following:

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:34:32 PM UTC-7, Damaeus wrote:


| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |


Before turning it on for the first time, I cleared the CMOS. Then I
accepted all the default/automatic settings in the BIOS because it's
supposed to detect all my stuff and configure itself appropriately.

Then I stuck a new Windows 8 disc into the DVD drive. I saw a Windows
logo and an animated progress meter/spinner, but no words or anything.
Then the screen goes black and I'm looking at the boot screen again. So I
try Windows 8 installation again and the same thing happens. I asked some
guys in a web forum what to do and they said to set the memory to run at
its "rated" speed and timing. SO I set it to 2133 MHz and timing to
11-12-11-30, and voltage to 1.65, which is what the specs are for this
memory.


But not for the memory chips because no chip maker rates its visibly
branded DDR3 for 1.65V ("visibly" means no heatsinks covering the chips),
and real 2133 MHz chips are rarely found on 2133 MHz memory modules.


Kingston (or whoever makes these) supposedly tested it and found that it
would run at a maximum speed of 2133 MHz. I don't want to run it that
fast, of course. I got it because I figured if it would run at 2133 MHz,
then it would run even better at slower speeds. Its standard speed is
1333 MHz, which I'm happy with. I like the overhead and I'd rather run
memory capable of 2133 at 1333 instead of running memory capable of only
1333 at 1333. The former is like having a car that'll go 213 miles an
hour, but I only drive it at 133. lol

The fastest chips used tend to be 1600 MHz, and a couple of companies
have used 1333 MHz chips on their 2133 MHz modules. And the more
modules you have installed, the less likely the memory will work
error-free, but some of that is due to the quality of the motherboard.
IOW try just one module at a time and test it overnight with MemTest86,
MemTest86+, and Gold Memory, or get some known good memory, that is,
Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial.


Maybe I can get an exchange on this if it shows errors. I researched the
brand and Kingston was listed along with Mushkin, Crucial and Corsair as
good brands. But these were web forums. I guess people were going by
their experiences.

I've tried hooking the PC up to a surge protector instead of
my UPS. No change.


The only part of a backup supply or surge protector that will
likely help at all is the line filter, but not all surge protectors
have them, and even a few backup supplies lack them.


Someone in a web forum suggested my battery backup might be going bad.
That was the only reason I changed the power source. It seems fine and it
passes its self-test.

The power supply is fairly new, and I've had it tested at Best
Buy where I got it,


They didn't test it. The don't have the equipment, and they don't
know how. A real test would require a load at least as high as
the worst-case load your computer applies and measuring the voltages
with a meter, preferrably also with something to measure ripple as
well. But I don't think your PSU is bad, and most likely you're
experiencing bad memory (Kingston is made of no-name or overclocked
chips) or software, probably the latter.


Sigh... And someone on a web forum said that Kingston makes their own
memory. Sometimes I hate the internet.

Damaeus
  #12  
Old January 11th 13, 02:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, VanguardLH posted on
Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:13:40 -0600 the following:

NOTE: Since the computer reboots BEFORE the operating system loads (as
claimed by your Subject), I've clipped out all the stuff about the OS as
it is irrelevant.

"Damaeus" wrote:

Before turning it on for the first time, I cleared the CMOS. Then I
accepted all the default/automatic settings in the BIOS because it's
supposed to detect all my stuff and configure itself appropriately.


But did you check if the BIOS was using the SPD from the memory card(s)
to determine what clockings to use?


Yes, it was. Boosting the speed to 2133 MHz and timing 11-12-11-30
increased stability for about an hour and a half. Since then I've lowered
the speed back to automatic 1333 MHz and automatic 9-9-9-24. I still got
a reboot there after about 3.5 hours, but it's strange how it just decided
to stop rebooting so quickly with the same timings I had at first. I then
enabled an "optimize for 4 GB DIMMs", which lengthens the timing a little
to 10-12-11-28, and I can't be sure yet until I run it for more than 3.5
hours, but it seems to have increased the stability some more.

Here's what the settings look like with 4GB DIMM settings loaded:

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damae...-crosshair.jpg

While I was in there grabbing that screen shot, I noticed that the voltage
was set to manual at 1.4, and it was in yellow. I reset that to
automatic. I'm not sure yet how that'll affect stability. I don't even
know how it got to 1.4 volts. I must have fiddled with it thinking I was
going to exit without saving, then maybe I found something else, changed
that, and accidentally saved both of them. Nonetheless, I still used to
have reboots on all-automatic, even before I ever messed with voltage
settings.

Did you disconnect the hard disk and retest? Yes, there won't be an OS
to boot but you're trying to discover the cause for hardware rebooting,
not something the OS which isn't involved since it isn't even loaded
yet. Also disconnect any optical drive (CD/DVD) and remove any
daughtercards unnecessary for booting the hardware (i.e., NIC).


I haven't tried that. The least I've had connected when turning the
machine on is the hard drive, one DVD drive, and a graphics card. It
never would reboot when I was just in the BIOS+IBQ-only after starting an OS
load, or in the case of the Windows 8 install disc, it would reboot while
showing the Windows 8 logo and an animated graphic showing that something
is in progress. The NIC is integrated with the motherboard. At best, I
could just unplug the ethernet cord. I did that before, but I still had
the hard drive and DVD drive connected. It's a new DVD drive, by the way.
My old ones were connected with IDE cables, but this motherboard has no
IDE connectors, so I had to get a new drive, too.

Just for giggles, you didn't leave a diskette inserted into the floppy
drive, right?


No, I have a USB floppy drive since I use a floppy disk so infrequently
that having one installed in the case only makes it a dust collector. I
once had a floppy drive installed and I only got two uses out of it before
it became so dust-ridden it would no longer work. It's hard to get the
dust out of one of those things with an air can. And fortunately, the USB
floppy drive I have just happened to work when I was trying to give WinXP
the SATA driver for this motherboard, so it should work when I do
Memtest86.

I've tried pulling all but one DIMM, which I left in A1.


Presumably the result of which was that the computer still did a reboot
before the BIOS got to the point of loading the OS. So the memory card
you employed in this scenario is suspect.


Well, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it yet.

I've tried having two DIMMS in A1 and B1, and two DIMMS in A2 and B2,
then just one DIMM in B2.


But did you omit the memory card that was used in your first 1-slot
test? Maybe you kept including the same memory card in each test.


I tried two of the four DIMMs by themselves. You know, I really hate
changing these DIMMs out. Of all the pieces I put together in this thing,
DIMMs are the scariest because the slots are so tight. It takes
considerable pressure to get them to snap into place, and it always sounds
like there's sand in the slots. They're clean, of course, but it sounds
so nasty sticking them in there that I'm afraid that swapping them out too
much might do more harm than good.

Do you really think bad memory can just cause a reboot? Seems like it
could cause the system to freeze or create strange errors. But just a
sudden reboot sounds odd, but I don't consider myself a computer-building
expert. I know enough to build one, and if it works after I put it
together, I consider myself good at BUILDING computers, but perhaps not so
good at diagnosing them if they don't work properly after I'm done. This
is the first out of seven builds that I've had problems with. All the
others just worked perfectly from the start without having to fondle the
BIOS to enourage it.

Have you tried inserting one memory card and then running memtest on it?


No, I haven't done that. I'm going to do a memory test, though.

The power supply is fairly new, and I've had it tested at Best Buy
where I got it, and they said it was good, though their "big machine"
they normally test power supplies on was broken down. He used some
handheld device to test it.


The typical hand-held plug-in testers merely check voltages are within
range. They don't perform a load test. Voltages can waver under load.
Devices plugged into the PSU can cause regulation problems. You can
test voltages using any multimeter. The tester you mention doesn't show
you the voltages but just lights a LED if voltages are within the
acceptable range. A multimeter would show you the voltages AFTER you
connected the PSU to all the devices. It won't show regulation (ripple)
but will show the average value.


I don't have a super-powerful rig here. It just has one hard drive, one
DVD drive, and a mid-range graphics card. I think I have a lot of power
supply for the equipment I have.

If you're building your own computers then you probably have a
multimeter (alas, most users never get them calibrated or send them in
for recalibration at 5-year intervals). With everything hooked up to
the PSU, use the multimeter to check what are the voltages UNDER LOAD.


LOL, no. I gave my multimeter to my dad because I never used it.

I've seated and reseated the video card. I tried changing the video
card to a new MSI GeForce GTX 650, and that didn't help.


If the video card wasn't working, you wouldn't see the BIOS or POST
screens. The video BIOS must load before the system BIOS. If the video
isn't working or missing, you'd hear some beeps but no video obviously.


Yeah, video works. I've never had a problem with that. When I put the
new GTX 650 in was when I first got the computer to stop rebooting so
quickly with automatic settings in the BIOS, but it eventually did reboot,
too. With the 7950 GT, reboots happened quickly. Then, when I put the
7950 GT back in with automatic settings, it didn't reboot like it had
before. But I may not have had it up long enough for it to happen.

You never mentioned if you do or do not hear any diagnostic beeps on a
cold boot.


I usually hear one beep when booting, and that's all. In the manual, one
short beep means:

VGA detected
Quick boot set to disabled
No keyboard detected

Well, I have a keyboard and it does work.

All my temperatures are fine. Right now, my CPU is at 18.8+ALo-C.


Really? 20C is room temperature. You're saying your CPU is not only
not producing any heat but it is actually chilled? Are you using water
cooling instead of a fan? If water cooled, you actually have a chiller
that will reduce the water's temperature below ambient?


No, I don't. Something is up with the thermal sensor. It's 70 degrees in
here, but right now, the CPU temperature is showing 64+ALo-F in HWiNFO32. I
don't have Cool n Quiet installed.

I've only seen it go as high as 42+ALo-C.


Now that's a normal operating temperature.

GPU runs idle at about 56-58+ALo-C, but I've read
that this is okay for this particular graphics card.


So how are the fans? Are they all spinning? Are they spinning at full
speed? A non-moving CPU fan (whether because it is a bad unit or some
obstruction stopping the fan) will have an RPM of zero and the BIOS will
shutdown the computer. A bad fan that reports low or zero RPM, or one
that spins too slowly (RPM too small), or an obstruction that stops the
fan blades (i.e., poor cable routing) can result in the BIOS seeing a
too-low fan speed and shutdown the computer.


Yes, all the fans are working. I actually keep mine cool with the side of
the case removed and a huge fan is blowing inside it at medium speed,
which doesn't put out a whole lot of air, but it's enough to put a nice
breeze into the case. So there are no case fans installed. The only
system fans are the CPU, GPU, and PSU. Oh, And I noticed the fans for the
UPS battery are not working. blush I wish it was as simple as that, but
the PC rebooted even when not connected to the battery.

What do you think is the problem here? Any suggestions?


When you mounted the mobo to the case using the standoffs, were they
plastic standoffs onto which you push the mobo or are they metallic
threaded rods and you use screws to hold down the mobo? If the metallic
type, did you use the phenolic insulating washers between the screws
heads and the mobo, or do the mobo have a nice grounding pad around the
hold through which the screw passes? I have seen where metallic
standoffs and metal screws have caused shorts. In addition, I've found
mobos that had problems due to solder flakes or whiskers.


I have metal screw-in studs that go into a metal case. I asked about
using washers in my last build and someone told me that those washers
aren't needed because using metal screws in metal studs "grounds" the
motherboard to the case. It looks like the printed circuits steer clear
of the mounting holes. If you think I should have washers in this thing,
I can get some and put them in. I've used them before. Hmmm... Maybe
that's why my KT7A-RAID system died after three power outages in 15
seconds.

These people are saying no washers are needed:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/24...ulated-washers

And this guy says no washers are needed because the motherboard needs
grounding:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...herboard/145/2


Damaeus
  #13  
Old January 11th 13, 02:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Paul posted on
Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:09:03 -0500 the following:

Run memtest86+.

Downloads are half-way down this page.


Yes, thanks. I've already got a couple of floppies created for it. I'm
wondering if I should run the 64 version or the regular version. It says
to run the 64 version on "64-bit platforms", and I do have a 64-bit
processor and 16GB of memory, but the operating system is only 32-bit.
Which disk should I use?

Damaeus
  #14  
Old January 11th 13, 02:32 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Paul posted on
Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:29:20 -0500 the following:

The advertising mentions Intel. And possibly, because the modules
are equipped with optional Intel XMP profiles.

http://www.kingston.com/us/memory/hy...s/quad_channel

http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/K...1D3K4_16GX.pdf

JEDEC: DDR3-1333 CL9-9-9 @1.5V


Wow! I'll have to check the BIOS again, but automatic settings have the
voltage set to around 1.288 or something like that. Maybe too little
voltage is the problem.

And this board doesn't recognize XMP profiles. I asked about that in a
web forum. This one uses D.O.C.P., but I want it to run at its JEDEC
speed. I'm more than happy with that. It's still a lot faster than my
last PC.

Overclocking is a learning experience. No amount of automation,
does a really good job of setting up the board. Many times,
a built-in overclock function, is applying way too much voltage,
to make it seem "easy". And tweaking is called for.


And I'm not even interested in overclocking. I want STABILITY by all
means. But then that's why I got a motherboard that CAN be overclocked. I
figured that with all that extra headroom for faster speeds, I'd get more
stability than I'd get if I got a motherboard designed to run at a certain
speed with no way to change that, and then it may just run maxed out all
the time.

My last board, the Abit Fatal1ty AN9 32x, I never overclocked, and except
for that bad capacitor screwing up my game animations, it was the most
stable and reliable system I ever built! I'm hoping to achieve that same
result with this one. But this is my first Asus board. I didn't realize
it was going to be so damned picky! Or maybe I'v got one that's not quite
right. It even came in the wrong box.

Damaeus
  #15  
Old January 11th 13, 02:40 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Man-wai Chang
posted on Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:36:40 +0800 the
following:

Try manually setting the RAM clock to DDR3-1333. You were overclocking
the memory bus!!! I am not sure whether this AMD motherboard could
handle DDR3-2133...


This motherboard handles up 2400 MHz memory. I don't want to max it out,
but if memory ever comes out that's easy to find and runs at a JEDEC
standard speed of something like 2133 MHz without overclocking, I'll look
into getting some.

Damaeus
  #16  
Old January 11th 13, 03:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Paul posted on
Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:09:03 -0500 the following:

Run memtest86+.

Downloads are half-way down this page.


Yes, thanks. I've already got a couple of floppies created for it. I'm
wondering if I should run the 64 version or the regular version. It says
to run the 64 version on "64-bit platforms", and I do have a 64-bit
processor and 16GB of memory, but the operating system is only 32-bit.
Which disk should I use?

Damaeus


Either version should work.

The last time I used it, there was only a 32 bit version, and the
behavior was, it was mapping 2GB chunks at a time, and running the
test on each chunk. Then it would move on to the next chunk. So it
seemed even the 32 bit version could do the job.

*******

By the way, DDR3 nominal voltage is 1.5V, and the XMP profiles for
your memory include operation to 1.65V. As long as you check and 1.65V
is OK with an AMD processor, you could probably use a voltage up
to that level. And you may find that helps with stability.

There is a second kind of DDR3, which is rated for stable operation
at 1.35V. But that is not an issue at the moment, as I see
in the KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX spec

"JEDEC standard 1.5V"

There's no particularly good reason to run a 1.5V RAM at 1.4V.

To reach 2133, the Kingston datasheet says they used 1.65V when
they were testing it. To reach 1333, 1.5V was the test voltage.
If you contacted Kingston and claimed the memory was bad, and
then told them you were testing at 1.4V, they'd tell you to
use at least 1.5V. They only accept that a memory is bad, when
you test at the same level they did.

HTH,
Paul
  #17  
Old January 11th 13, 03:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

Damaeus wrote:

But this is my first Asus board. I didn't realize
it was going to be so damned picky!


You selected a real enthusiast board. Not a $100 wonder
with no BIOS settings.

While Asus do a good job of selecting automatic parameters
for things, you have to realize that with an enthusiast board,
they expect the user to review all the settings. Or at least
the major settings.

The coloring scheme (green=normal, yellow=slightly out of spec,
red=dangerously high) is there to help you recognize what is
nominal and what isn't. Some things are not handled by automation,
such as JEDEC SPD entries which lack a voltage setting. And
that means, even with "full Auto", the voltage on the DIMMs
might be wrong.

With the availability of 1.35V and 1.5V DIMMs, there might be
situations where they'd want to try for 1.35V. But I'm not
aware of anything in the regular SPD table, that tells them what
to use. Unless, that is, JEDEC has added code points for both
kinds of RAM (they should have, but I haven't downloaded a JEDEC
spec lately). It could be, that Kingston made a mistake
when coding the SPD, and entered 1.35V in there. Maybe that
would account for an abnormally low VDimm. When the spec
sheet from Kingston says 1.5V.

What JEDEC likes to specify, is only the "normal" voltage.
If there are two kinds of memory chips, they'd have a coding
for the normal value. Like setting a bit to zero means it's
a 1.35V chip, setting a bit to one means it's a 1.5V chip.
JEDEC "doesn't do overclocker data", so there should be no
way for JEDEC to say in a table "turn it up to 1.65V now".
JEDEC considers there is just one voltage operating point,
for a given memory chip. And thus, the SPD table lacks
expressive power. And that's why XMP was added (to some
products) as an informal solution. JEDEC would be aware of
the existence of these ideas, but hasn't rolled all of the
ideas into the "official" standard.

There are several voltages that are going to be in the same
vicinity of the BIOS setup, so be careful you're looking at
the right one. There could be a separate voltage for the
"uncore" memory controller block, as well as a voltage that
feeds the I/O pads on the memory chips (VDimm). Even if you
don't know what they mean, use the color scheme to review
them. If you have questions (like, you spot another one
in yellow), post back with the details.

I have the "poor relative" of an Asus enthusiast board. It's
an enthusiast board, with half the enthusiasm removed :-)
Some of the chips are removed, and the board is about $200
cheaper. I've only had to adjust one voltage on there, to
solve a stability problem. And in my case, it didn't have
"the color scheme" to warn me. I took a guess, and got
lucky on the first try, bumping one of the settings up.
Apparently my Northbridge was a little grumpy, and a tiny
change in voltage made it work "good as new". That's the fun
of these things.

Before all this enthusiasm took place (when far fewer regulators
were adjustable), there was really nothing that needed adjustment.
Now, a lot of the regulators have VID codes, and they can be
programmed. Which is both a plus and a minus. It's a plus,
when you can adjust a voltage and avoid RMA warranty proceedings
on a motherboard. It's a minus when you don't really want
to be adjusting such things.

Paul
  #18  
Old January 11th 13, 04:46 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Paul posted on
Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:31:00 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

Yes, thanks. I've already got a couple of floppies created for it. I'm
wondering if I should run the 64 version or the regular version. It says
to run the 64 version on "64-bit platforms", and I do have a 64-bit
processor and 16GB of memory, but the operating system is only 32-bit.
Which disk should I use?


Either version should work.

The last time I used it, there was only a 32 bit version, and the
behavior was, it was mapping 2GB chunks at a time, and running the
test on each chunk. Then it would move on to the next chunk. So it
seemed even the 32 bit version could do the job.


Thanks. I'll give one of them a whirl. I don't know anymore what the
program runs under. I embarrassed myself in a web forum by referring to
it as DOS, and someone rather condescendingly told me that Memtest86 has
nothing to do with DOS. Okay, so DOS is gone. But the command prompt
sure behaves like DOS. Maybe DOS could be the command prompt's nickname.
Anyway, I was under the impression that Memtest86 runs without Windows,
but apparently some kind of operating system must load, even if it has no
GUI, to allow Memtest86 to operate. Maybe I knew more about computers
when DOS was around than I do now. Heh.

By the way, DDR3 nominal voltage is 1.5V, and the XMP profiles for
your memory include operation to 1.65V. As long as you check and 1.65V
is OK with an AMD processor, you could probably use a voltage up
to that level. And you may find that helps with stability.


Yes, when I first had this problem and went to 2133 MHz and 1.65 volts,
that ran for quite a while. It even got me to the Windows 8 product key
validation screen, where defaults did nothing of the sort.

There is a second kind of DDR3, which is rated for stable operation
at 1.35V. But that is not an issue at the moment, as I see
in the KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX spec

"JEDEC standard 1.5V"

There's no particularly good reason to run a 1.5V RAM at 1.4V.

To reach 2133, the Kingston datasheet says they used 1.65V when
they were testing it. To reach 1333, 1.5V was the test voltage.
If you contacted Kingston and claimed the memory was bad, and
then told them you were testing at 1.4V, they'd tell you to
use at least 1.5V. They only accept that a memory is bad, when
you test at the same level they did.


I'll go into the BIOS and get a screenshot of what the voltage and timing
looks like now, then I'll try boosting it to 1.5 volts if it doesn't turn
red on me. So far it hasn't rebooted with it set back to automatic. I'll
see what the voltage says since I saved and didn't go back into the BIOS
to see what the new reading was.

Damaeus
  #19  
Old January 11th 13, 04:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Damaeus[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Paul posted on
Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:52:32 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

But this is my first Asus board. I didn't realize
it was going to be so damned picky!


You selected a real enthusiast board. Not a $100 wonder
with no BIOS settings.


Yes, I thought Abit had a lot of configuration options. Asus seems to
have far more, and many things I don't recognize.

While Asus do a good job of selecting automatic parameters
for things, you have to realize that with an enthusiast board,
they expect the user to review all the settings. Or at least
the major settings.

The coloring scheme (green=normal, yellow=slightly out of spec,
red=dangerously high) is there to help you recognize what is
nominal and what isn't. Some things are not handled by automation,
such as JEDEC SPD entries which lack a voltage setting. And
that means, even with "full Auto", the voltage on the DIMMs
might be wrong.


I'm checking that after I post this message.

[snipped interesting information]
There are several voltages that are going to be in the same
vicinity of the BIOS setup, so be careful you're looking at
the right one. There could be a separate voltage for the
"uncore" memory controller block, as well as a voltage that
feeds the I/O pads on the memory chips (VDimm). Even if you
don't know what they mean, use the color scheme to review
them. If you have questions (like, you spot another one
in yellow), post back with the details.


Okay.

I have the "poor relative" of an Asus enthusiast board. It's
an enthusiast board, with half the enthusiasm removed :-)
Some of the chips are removed, and the board is about $200
cheaper. I've only had to adjust one voltage on there, to
solve a stability problem. And in my case, it didn't have
"the color scheme" to warn me. I took a guess, and got
lucky on the first try, bumping one of the settings up.
Apparently my Northbridge was a little grumpy, and a tiny
change in voltage made it work "good as new". That's the fun
of these things.


Well, yes. I suppose if I could find the stability point, I'll be happy
with it. I'll be happier if I can keep it up and running two days with no
reboots....then I'll want a week, then a month. I think my record on my
old Fatal1ty board with the bad capacitor was something like 32 (or maybe
even 92) days without a reboot using Windows XP Home and I had no
stability problems at all. I would only reboot to fix the animation
paging problem. THIS motherboard didn't have that problem with the same
graphics card, so I at least now know it was definitely the motherboard.
And to think it was like that from the first day I got it.

Before all this enthusiasm took place (when far fewer regulators
were adjustable), there was really nothing that needed adjustment.
Now, a lot of the regulators have VID codes, and they can be
programmed. Which is both a plus and a minus. It's a plus,
when you can adjust a voltage and avoid RMA warranty proceedings
on a motherboard. It's a minus when you don't really want
to be adjusting such things.


Yeah. I went into the BIOS of my friend's DELL and there was just one
page of settings and there was something I wanted to adjust but couldn't.
I don't remember what it was now, even though it's only been three days.
lol

Damaeus
  #20  
Old January 11th 13, 05:08 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 1,453
Default New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

"Damaeus" wrote:

Boosting the speed to 2133 MHz and timing 11-12-11-30 increased
stability for about an hour and a half. Since then I've lowered the
speed back to automatic 1333 MHz and automatic 9-9-9-24.

I still got a reboot there after about 3.5 hours, but it's strange
how it just decided to stop rebooting so quickly with the same
timings I had at first. I then enabled an "optimize for 4 GB DIMMs",
which lengthens the timing a little to 10-12-11-28, and I can't be
sure yet until I run it for more than 3.5 hours, but it seems to have
increased the stability some more.

Here's what the settings look like with 4GB DIMM settings loaded:

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/i...-crosshair.jpg


I've seen some memory brands that overclock their modules (by the spec
they sell at). You are led to believe the memory module is rated for
those specs but those are actually overclocked specs advertized for the
product so they can charge you more. When they claim the unit has been
tested at the overclocked values, that's not true. They have not been
"burned" for hours to test stability nor has every unit been tested but
just a sample.

http://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/K...1D3K4_16GX.pdf
"Each module kit has been tested to run at DDR3-2133 at a low latency
timing of 11-12-11 at 1.65V. The SPDs are programmed to JEDEC standard
latency DDR3-1333 timing of 9-9-9 at 1.5V."

Sounds fishy to me. They're saying that the modules have been
programmed with an SPD that has the memory run at a slower speed hence
the tighter timings yet they "test" then to run at the higher speed (and
looser timings). Sure sounds like they've taken DDR3-1333 modules and
are selling them as overclocked units. The chip maker says the product
is rated for 1333 at CAS9 but Kingston is overclocking that spec and
claiming (and hoping) the product works at 2133 CAS11. Try to get the
hardware working by not overclocking anything. You can play with
overclocking later where you decide if you want stability along with
continuous usability or speed at the expense of usability.

Is there decent airflow over the memory modules? Sometimes cables,
especially the flat IDE ones, are incorrectly oriented perpendicular to
the airflow instead of parallel to it. Of course, with your external
table fan blowing into the case, it's that airflow direction you need to
cool the memory cards.

While I was in there grabbing that screen shot, I noticed that the
voltage was set to manual at 1.4, and it was in yellow. I reset that
to automatic. I'm not sure yet how that'll affect stability.


These overclocked units at the 2133 clock require 1.65V. They're
overclocked. They need more power. They'll expell more heat. Even at
the module spec'd 1333 clock rate (what the chip manufacturer rated for
the module, not what Kingston decided to "test" and claim a higher but
overclocked rate), the modules are spec'ed at 1.5V. You said 1.4 was
wrong but didn't mention what voltage the "automatic" setting used.

You know, I really hate changing these DIMMs out. Of all the pieces I
put together in this thing, DIMMs are the scariest because the slots
are so tight. It takes considerable pressure to get them to snap
into place, and it always sounds like there's sand in the slots.
They're clean, of course, but it sounds so nasty sticking them in
there that I'm afraid that swapping them out too much might do more
harm than good.


I haven't experienced what you describe except with memory cards that
were a misaligned on the punchouts (used to polarize the card in the
slot bracket). I've had to use a small round rasp on the cutouts so
they slide over the slot bracket okay. Yep, it was a manufacturing
flaw. Without the rework, there would be too much torque on the PCB and
bracket retention. Before doing that, however, I make sure the card is
FULLY seated to see if the side cutouts will then align okay. I
remember once having to rework the cutouts. In every other case where
they were tough to get in, it just required a bit more jostling,
jiggling, and pushing to get the cutouts to align. Typically it's just
push in, push back, and click. The "sand" noise could be the edge of
the PCB for the cutouts scraping past the nubs in the slot bracket.

If these come with a folder-over heat plate, have you made sure they are
centered and not partially overlapping the side cutouts? Are these just
the cheap and worthless fold-over aluminum plates put on just for looks
or are they the ones that extend beyond the top of the memory card with
fins (which often results in problem in spacing with other components)?

From http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2030/1/, it looks like its just
the non-functional plate used for marketing glitz. Those just slide
over and are held by friction, don't have good contact since the inside
is painted or is unpolished, and no thermal paste is used plus they
provide little additional surface area for cooling than for the chip
tops themselves (and the lack of thermal paste and good surface contact
means poor heat transfer so the added surface area of the plate is
ineffective).

I usually hear one beep when booting, and that's all. In the manual,
one short beep means:


One beep is good.

I have metal screw-in studs that go into a metal case. I asked about
using washers in my last build and someone told me that those washers
aren't needed because using metal screws in metal studs "grounds" the
motherboard to the case. It looks like the printed circuits steer
clear of the mounting holes. If you think I should have washers in
this thing, I can get some and put them in.


The holes in the mobo for the standoff screws might have a grounding pad
so, yes, you want the screws to contact them. Shorting happens when
flathead screws are used with oversized heads. The heads obviously have
to be bigger than the hole to hold the mobo but I've seen some folks use
really large headed screws which reached beyond the grounding pad on the
mobo. Also, not all mobo mounting points have grounding pads. It's not
the metallic standoffs that short something away from the hole. It's
using too-large headed screws.

Did the mobo come with a packet of standoffs and screws? If so, and if
no phenolic washers were provided then you don't any assuming you're
also using the screws provided in the hardware kit. Or were you
salvaging the screws and maybe the standoffs out of a junk box?

Where there is a grounding pad around a standoff hole is where a screw
should contact it. That is what connects chassis ground to circuit
ground. Make sure the screw head does extend outside the grounding
contact. Not all mounting holes for the standoffs will have grounding
contacts. Make sure the metallic screw doesn't contact any foils,
components leads, or jumper wires next to those holes.
 




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