New Build PC Spontaneously Reboots Sometimes Before OS Load

There's a lot that has happened with this build since I put it together on
Friday 1.4.2013, but I'll try to be brief, difficult as it may be. First,
here's the hardware I'm working with. I hope you have fixed-width on:

..---------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Motherboard: | Asus Crosshair V Formula Z (AMD 990FX) | Jan 2013 |
| CPU: | AMD FX-6300 Vishera 3.5 GHz (AM3+-) | Jan 2013 |
| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |
| | (KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX) | |
| Graphics: | BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC (512 MB) | |
| Monitor: | 27" Acer S271HL - 1920 x 1080 | Nov 2012 |
| Power: | Thermaltake 850-watt Smart-M Series | Jul 2012 |
| | (SP-850AH3CCB) | |
| Hard Drive: | Western Digital 320GB HD (NTFS) | |
| UPS Battery: | APC Back-UPS XS 1500 | |
| Network: | Netgear WNDR3700 N600 | Jan 2011 |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
| OS | MS Windows XP Home Edition - SP3 (32-bit) |
| | Installing Windows 8 64-bit soon! |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'

Before turning it on for the first time, I cleared the CMOS. Then I
accepted all the default/automatic settings in the BIOS because it's
supposed to detect all my stuff and configure itself appropriately.

Then I stuck a new Windows 8 disc into the DVD drive. I saw a Windows
logo and an animated progress meter/spinner, but no words or anything.

Then the screen goes black and I'm looking at the boot screen again. So I
try Windows 8 installation again and the same thing happens. I asked some
guys in a web forum what to do and they said to set the memory to run at
its "rated" speed and timing. SO I set it to 2133 MHz and timing to
11-12-11-30, and voltage to 1.65, which is what the specs are for this
memory. That actually helped because I then got to the Windows 8
authentication screen where it asked for my product key. I wish I could
tell you more about that experience, but since the product key was no
good, I had to install Windows XP just to have something to use while I
sort out the product key problem.

So I installed WinXP SP-3 from a slipstream disc. Everything is fine, but
then my system suddenly reboots again. Then when I tried to allow the
system to load Windows again, it starts another reboot cycle, and then
another.

I've tried pulling all but one DIMM, which I left in A1. I've tried
having two DIMMS in A1 and B1, and two DIMMS in A2 and B2, then just one
DIMM in B2. I've tried hooking the PC up to a surge protector instead of
my UPS. No change. The power supply is fairly new, and I've had it
tested at Best Buy where I got it, and they said it was good, though their
"big machine" they normally test power supplies on was broken down. He
used some handheld device to test it. I've seated and reseated the video
card. I tried changing the video card to a new MSI GeForce GTX 650, and
that didn't help.

In Windows XP, I disabled "Automatically Restart" in the configuration so
I'll get a BSOD instead of a restart, but I never get a BSOD. So it
doesn't seem to be a software or OS thing, especially since it was
rebooting itself just while trying to install Win8. It never did reboot
on me during the installation of XP, though.

All my temperatures are fine. Right now, my CPU is at 18.8+ALo-C. I've only
seen it go as high as 42+ALo-C. GPU runs idle at about 56-58+ALo-C, but I've read
that this is okay for this particular graphics card.

What do you think is the problem here? Any suggestions?

On 1/10/2013 4:34 PM, Damaeus wrote:
There's a lot that has happened with this build since I put it together on
Friday 1.4.2013, but I'll try to be brief, difficult as it may be. First,
here's the hardware I'm working with. I hope you have fixed-width on:

.---------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Motherboard: | Asus Crosshair V Formula Z (AMD 990FX) | Jan 2013 |
| CPU: | AMD FX-6300 Vishera 3.5 GHz (AM3+) | Jan 2013 |
| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |
| | (KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX) | |
| Graphics: | BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC (512 MB) | |
| MonX

snip




Even though you tried different RAM sticks it's possible there still is
a problem with it... I'd actually try under-clocking it to see what
happens. Also run MEMTEST

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:34:32 PM UTC-7, Damaeus wrote:


| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |


Before turning it on for the first time, I cleared the CMOS. Then I
accepted all the default/automatic settings in the BIOS because it's
supposed to detect all my stuff and configure itself appropriately.

Then I stuck a new Windows 8 disc into the DVD drive. I saw a Windows
logo and an animated progress meter/spinner, but no words or anything.
Then the screen goes black and I'm looking at the boot screen again. So I
try Windows 8 installation again and the same thing happens. I asked some
guys in a web forum what to do and they said to set the memory to run at
its "rated" speed and timing. SO I set it to 2133 MHz and timing to
11-12-11-30, and voltage to 1.65, which is what the specs are for this
memory.

But not for the memory chips because no chip maker rates its visibly
branded DDR3 for 1.65V ("visibly" means no heatsinks covering the chips),
and real 2133 MHz chips are rarely found on 2133 MHz memory modules.
The fastest chips used tend to be 1600 MHz, and a couple of companies
have used 1333 MHz chips on their 2133 MHz modules. And the more
modules you have installed, the less likely the memory will work
error-free, but some of that is due to the quality of the motherboard.
IOW try just one module at a time and test it overnight with MemTest86,
MemTest86+, and Gold Memory, or get some known good memory, that is,
Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial.

I've tried hooking the PC up to a surge protector instead of
my UPS. No change.

The only part of a backup supply or surge protector that will
likely help at all is the line filter, but not all surge protectors
have them, and even a few backup supplies lack them.

The power supply is fairly new, and I've had it tested at Best
Buy where I got it,

They didn't test it. The don't have the equipment, and they don't
know how. A real test would require a load at least as high as
the worst-case load your computer applies and measuring the voltages
with a meter, preferrably also with something to measure ripple as
well. But I don't think your PSU is bad, and most likely you're
experiencing bad memory (Kingston is made of no-name or overclocked
chips) or software, probably the latter.

On Jan 10, 5:54 pm, philo wrote:


Even though you tried different RAM sticks it's possible there still is
a problem with it... I'd actually try under-clocking it to see what
happens. Also run MEMTEST

Me, too. Also removing all but one RAM stick at the slowest possible
speed, maybe even old spare PCI graphics board. Just to see it boot
in a stable config. before looking at the MB or PS.

NOTE: Since the computer reboots BEFORE the operating system loads (as
claimed by your Subject), I've clipped out all the stuff about the OS as
it is irrelevant.

"Damaeus" wrote:

There's a lot that has happened with this build since I put it together on
Friday 1.4.2013, but I'll try to be brief, difficult as it may be. First,
here's the hardware I'm working with. I hope you have fixed-width on:

.---------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Motherboard: | Asus Crosshair V Formula Z (AMD 990FX) | Jan 2013 |
| CPU: | AMD FX-6300 Vishera 3.5 GHz (AM3+) | Jan 2013 |
| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |
| | (KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX) | |
| Graphics: | BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC (512 MB) | |
| Monitor: | 27" Acer S271HL - 1920 x 1080 | Nov 2012 |
| Power: | Thermaltake 850-watt Smart-M Series | Jul 2012 |
| | (SP-850AH3CCB) | |
| Hard Drive: | Western Digital 320GB HD (NTFS) | |
| UPS Battery: | APC Back-UPS XS 1500 | |
| Network: | Netgear WNDR3700 N600 | Jan 2011 |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
| OS | MS Windows XP Home Edition - SP3 (32-bit) |
| | Installing Windows 8 64-bit soon! |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'

Before turning it on for the first time, I cleared the CMOS. Then I
accepted all the default/automatic settings in the BIOS because it's
supposed to detect all my stuff and configure itself appropriately.

But did you check if the BIOS was using the SPD from the memory card(s)
to determine what clockings to use?

Did you disconnect the hard disk and retest? Yes, there won't be an OS
to boot but you're trying to discover the cause for hardware rebooting,
not something the OS which isn't involved since it isn't even loaded
yet. Also disconnect any optical drive (CD/DVD) and remove any
daughtercards unnecessary for booting the hardware (i.e., NIC).

Just for giggles, you didn't leave a diskette inserted into the floppy
drive, right?

I've tried pulling all but one DIMM, which I left in A1.

Presumably the result of which was that the computer still did a reboot
before the BIOS got to the point of loading the OS. So the memory card
you employed in this scenario is suspect.

I've tried having two DIMMS in A1 and B1, and two DIMMS in A2 and B2,
then just one DIMM in B2.

But did you omit the memory card that was used in your first 1-slot
test? Maybe you kept including the same memory card in each test.

Have you tried inserting one memory card and then running memtest on it?

The power supply is fairly new, and I've had it tested at Best Buy
where I got it, and they said it was good, though their "big machine"
they normally test power supplies on was broken down. He used some
handheld device to test it.

The typical hand-held plug-in testers merely check voltages are within
range. They don't perform a load test. Voltages can waver under load.
Devices plugged into the PSU can cause regulation problems. You can
test voltages using any multimeter. The tester you mention doesn't show
you the voltages but just lights a LED if voltages are within the
acceptable range. A multimeter would show you the voltages AFTER you
connected the PSU to all the devices. It won't show regulation (ripple)
but will show the average value.

If you're building your own computers then you probably have a
multimeter (alas, most users never get them calibrated or send them in
for recalibration at 5-year intervals). With everything hooked up to
the PSU, use the multimeter to check what are the voltages UNDER LOAD.

I've seated and reseated the video card. I tried changing the video
card to a new MSI GeForce GTX 650, and that didn't help.

If the video card wasn't working, you wouldn't see the BIOS or POST
screens. The video BIOS must load before the system BIOS. If the video
isn't working or missing, you'd hear some beeps but no video obviously.

You never mentioned if you do or do not hear any diagnostic beeps on a
cold boot.

All my temperatures are fine. Right now, my CPU is at 18.8ºC.

Really? 20C is room temperature. You're saying your CPU is not only
not producing any heat but it is actually chilled? Are you using water
cooling instead of a fan? If water cooled, you actually have a chiller
that will reduce the water's temperature below ambient?

I've only seen it go as high as 42ºC.

Now that's a normal operating temperature.

GPU runs idle at about 56-58ºC, but I've read
that this is okay for this particular graphics card.

So how are the fans? Are they all spinning? Are they spinning at full
speed? A non-moving CPU fan (whether because it is a bad unit or some
obstruction stopping the fan) will have an RPM of zero and the BIOS will
shutdown the computer. A bad fan that reports low or zero RPM, or one
that spins too slowly (RPM too small), or an obstruction that stops the
fan blades (i.e., poor cable routing) can result in the BIOS seeing a
too-low fan speed and shutdown the computer.

What do you think is the problem here? Any suggestions?

When you mounted the mobo to the case using the standoffs, were they
plastic standoffs onto which you push the mobo or are they metallic
threaded rods and you use screws to hold down the mobo? If the metallic
type, did you use the phenolic insulating washers between the screws
heads and the mobo, or do the mobo have a nice grounding pad around the
hold through which the screw passes? I have seen where metallic
standoffs and metal screws have caused shorts. In addition, I've found
mobos that had problems due to solder flakes or whiskers.

Damaeus wrote:
There's a lot that has happened with this build since I put it together on
Friday 1.4.2013, but I'll try to be brief, difficult as it may be. First,
here's the hardware I'm working with. I hope you have fixed-width on:

.---------------------------------------------------------------------.
+AHw- Motherboard: +AHw- Asus Crosshair V Formula Z (AMD 990FX) +AHw- Jan 2013 +AHw-
+AHw- CPU: +AHw- AMD FX-6300 Vishera 3.5 GHz (AM3+ACs-) +AHw- Jan 2013 +AHw-
+AHw- Memory +AHw- 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 +AHw- Jan 2013 +AHw-
+AHw- +AHw- (KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX) +AHw- +AHw-
+AHw- Graphics: +AHw- BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC (512 MB) +AHw- +AHw-
+AHw- Monitor: +AHw- 27" Acer S271HL - 1920 x 1080 +AHw- Nov 2012 +AHw-
+AHw- Power: +AHw- Thermaltake 850-watt Smart-M Series +AHw- Jul 2012 +AHw-
+AHw- +AHw- (SP-850AH3CCB) +AHw- +AHw-
+AHw- Hard Drive: +AHw- Western Digital 320GB HD (NTFS) +AHw- +AHw-
+AHw- UPS Battery: +AHw- APC Back-UPS XS 1500 +AHw- +AHw-
+AHw- Network: +AHw- Netgear WNDR3700 N600 +AHw- Jan 2011 +AHw-
+AHw----------------------------------------------------------------------+AHw-
+AHw- OS +AHw- MS Windows XP Home Edition - SP3 (32-bit) +AHw-
+AHw- +AHw- Installing Windows 8 64-bit soon! +AHw-
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'

Before turning it on for the first time, I cleared the CMOS. Then I
accepted all the default/automatic settings in the BIOS because it's
supposed to detect all my stuff and configure itself appropriately.

Then I stuck a new Windows 8 disc into the DVD drive. I saw a Windows
logo and an animated progress meter/spinner, but no words or anything.

Then the screen goes black and I'm looking at the boot screen again. So I
try Windows 8 installation again and the same thing happens. I asked some
guys in a web forum what to do and they said to set the memory to run at
its "rated" speed and timing. SO I set it to 2133 MHz and timing to
11-12-11-30, and voltage to 1.65, which is what the specs are for this
memory. That actually helped because I then got to the Windows 8
authentication screen where it asked for my product key. I wish I could
tell you more about that experience, but since the product key was no
good, I had to install Windows XP just to have something to use while I
sort out the product key problem.

So I installed WinXP SP-3 from a slipstream disc. Everything is fine, but
then my system suddenly reboots again. Then when I tried to allow the
system to load Windows again, it starts another reboot cycle, and then
another.

I've tried pulling all but one DIMM, which I left in A1. I've tried
having two DIMMS in A1 and B1, and two DIMMS in A2 and B2, then just one
DIMM in B2. I've tried hooking the PC up to a surge protector instead of
my UPS. No change. The power supply is fairly new, and I've had it
tested at Best Buy where I got it, and they said it was good, though their
"big machine" they normally test power supplies on was broken down. He
used some handheld device to test it. I've seated and reseated the video
card. I tried changing the video card to a new MSI GeForce GTX 650, and
that didn't help.

In Windows XP, I disabled "Automatically Restart" in the configuration so
I'll get a BSOD instead of a restart, but I never get a BSOD. So it
doesn't seem to be a software or OS thing, especially since it was
rebooting itself just while trying to install Win8. It never did reboot
on me during the installation of XP, though.

All my temperatures are fine. Right now, my CPU is at 18.8+ALo-C. I've only
seen it go as high as 42+ALo-C. GPU runs idle at about 56-58+ALo-C, but I've read
that this is okay for this particular graphics card.

What do you think is the problem here? Any suggestions?

Run memtest86+ACs-.

Downloads are half-way down this page.

http://www.memtest.org/

Paul

| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |
| | (KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX) | |

Then the screen goes black and I'm looking at the boot screen again. So I
try Windows 8 installation again and the same thing happens. I asked some
guys in a web forum what to do and they said to set the memory to run at
its "rated" speed and timing. SO I set it to 2133 MHz and timing to
11-12-11-30, and voltage to 1.65, which is what the specs are for this
memory. That actually helped because I then got to the Windows 8
authentication screen where it asked for my product key.

Try manually setting the RAM clock to DDR3-1333. You were overclocking
the memory bus!!! I am not sure whether this AMD motherboard could
handle DDR3-2133...

--
@~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 17 i686) Linux 3.6.10-2.fc17.i686
^ ^ 18:21:01 up 2 days 12:34 0 users load average: 0.00 0.01 0.05
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

Man-wai Chang wrote:
| Memory | 4x4 GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 2133 | Jan 2013 |
| | (KHX2133C11D3K4/16GX) | |

Then the screen goes black and I'm looking at the boot screen again.
So I
try Windows 8 installation again and the same thing happens. I asked
some
guys in a web forum what to do and they said to set the memory to run at
its "rated" speed and timing. SO I set it to 2133 MHz and timing to
11-12-11-30, and voltage to 1.65, which is what the specs are for this
memory. That actually helped because I then got to the Windows 8
authentication screen where it asked for my product key.

Try manually setting the RAM clock to DDR3-1333. You were overclocking
the memory bus!!! I am not sure whether this AMD motherboard could
handle DDR3-2133...


The advertising mentions Intel. And possibly, because the modules
are equipped with optional Intel XMP profiles.

http://www.kingston.com/us/memory/hy...s/quad_channel

http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/K...1D3K4_16GX.pdf

JEDEC: DDR3-1333 CL9-9-9 @1.5V
XMP Profile #1: D3-2133 CL11-12-11 @1.65V
XMP Profile #2: D3-1866 CL10-11-10 @1.65V

In an AMD motherboard, assuming they didn't have XMP
support, it'll default to JEDEC DDR3-1333 when on "Auto".
But you can dial manually and experiment.

On the AMD platform, the upper limit is determined by
the processor. And, by the voltage the memory interface
on the processor can support. Presumably it's not the
same as the Intel recommended 1.65V. AMD in the past
has usually been more generous on voltage. Maybe you
can burn the DDR3 chips, before the AMD processor blows :-)

If testing at 2133, I'd try only two sticks, running in
dual channel mode.

Someone here is running the memory interface at DDR3-2164 at 1.63V.
Which suggests you can have a little fun with it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1341479/f...ing-help-guide

And for the bored, there's a longer thread here to read.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread...untry=&status=

"I black screen crash with reboot when gaming, but only in gaming."

That sounds vaguely, like someone who forgot to turn their
Hypertransport clock down, when overclocking other stuff.
A game might "irritate" that.

Overclocking is a learning experience. No amount of automation,
does a really good job of setting up the board. Many times,
a built-in overclock function, is applying way too much voltage,
to make it seem "easy". And tweaking is called for.

Paul

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, philo posted
on Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:54:27 -0600 the following:

Even though you tried different RAM sticks it's possible there still is
a problem with it... I'd actually try under-clocking it to see what
happens. Also run MEMTEST

The first time I booted it up, it was with all automatic timings, speed,
voltage, etc..., which should have used the JEDEC standard of 1333 MHz,
which I'm happy with. The motherboard supports up to 2400 MHz. But on
the first boot, running automatic speeds, was when the reboot problem was
at its worst. When I manually configured the memory speed to 2133 MHz and
the associated timing (11-12-11-30) at 1.65 volts was when I finally got
it to stop rebooting....for a while. It eventually did reboot, but only
after Windows was up and running for a while, maybe an hour and a half or
so.

Now I have it all set to automatic JEDEC/SPD speed and timing again,
except I enabled a feature in the BIOS that optimizes the timing for 4GB
DIMMs. It raised each timing number slightly. I'd have to boot into the
BIOS to check again, but I think the timing is something like
10-11(or12)-10-28 instead of 9-9-9-24. So far I haven't had a reboot with
that setting, but I haven't had it up and running for more than about 4-5
hours at a time. With automatic configuration before optimizing for 4GB
DIMMs, it was rebooting after about 3.5 hours of operation. With my
having to do "chores" around the house, it's been hard the last few days
for me to actually sit around and babysit it to see when it misbehaves,
but I'm trying.

Normally I leave my PC on while I leave the house, go to sleep, etc...,
but this one I haven't because I don't want to leave and then come back to
find it in a constant reboot cycle. I don't really feel like that's good
for it. That's another thing... So far, when it has rebooted itself,
that's when the reboot "cycle" starts. It doesn't just reboot and give me
another 3.5 hours of operation. So far, spontaneous reboots just start
cycling. Often Windows will just barely complete its startup and get all
the junk loaded in the system tray before it reboots again.

Still, I'm not happy that this thing just reboots itself at all if I just
turn it on to a default BIOS (after clearing the CMOS) and it can't just
run like all other motherboards I've had in the past.

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, Flasherly
posted on Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:57:54 -0800 (PST) the following:

On Jan 10, 5:54 pm, philo wrote:

Even though you tried different RAM sticks it's possible there still is
a problem with it... I'd actually try under-clocking it to see what
happens. Also run MEMTEST

Me, too. Also removing all but one RAM stick at the slowest possible
speed, maybe even old spare PCI graphics board. Just to see it boot
in a stable config. before looking at the MB or PS.

I think I read somewhere that the slowest speed this memory will operate
at is 1333 MHz, and I think that was on Kingston's own website.

Damaeus