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Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 25th 08, 05:19 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_3_]
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Posts: 7
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors, the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.
  #2  
Old August 25th 08, 05:36 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

root wrote:

I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors,
the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video
card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in
Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug
where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the
monitors separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does
anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new
video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now
unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this specific
bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This
video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the
way, and it didn't take a week to set up.


What is the main monitor make and model ?

What is the model number of the Philips 1080p HDTV ?

What resolution and refresh rate are you setting the main monitor
to, when the HDTV doesn't work ?

What happens when you connect both monitors, use Dual View, set
the HDTV to become "monitor #1", then dispose of the main
monitor, then bring the main monitor in as the clone ?

What does the Entechtaiwan Moninfo program report for the HDTV ?
What modes do you see supported or mentioned in there ?

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

Paul
  #3  
Old August 25th 08, 05:42 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
First of One[_2_]
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Posts: 1,284
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

1. Is your TV recognized as a TV or as a monitor?
2. Tried running your #1 monitor at 1920x1080?
3. Tried another HDMI port on your TV? There may be some silly differences.
Certain Panasonics only "like" a PC plugged into HDMI #2, for example.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"root" wrote in message
...
I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors, the
secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video card.
Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in Vista,
this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug where
there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the monitors
separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does anyone know
how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers,
I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows
of a driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of the
try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video configuration works
in XP on the same hardware no problem by the way, and it didn't take a week
to set up.



  #4  
Old August 25th 08, 10:29 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Paul wrote:
root wrote:

I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors,
the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the
video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the
monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a
new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode.
If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use
clone mode however. Does
anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new
video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now
unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this
specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens
nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no
problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.


What is the main monitor make and model ?


Viewsonic P815, which is normally 1800x1440 max original specs. I have
been using it at 1920x1440 and 1920x1080 on xp for a long time with no
problems. I was able to get these modes several times in vista but the
settings won't hold. I am unable to reproduce the conditions that led to
my original post since on cold boot just now, the higher res modes were
gone once again. To me, the video system appears unstable, but there is
probably some internal logic at work. I have tried tweaking the custom
resolutions in nvidia cp, and editing monitor.inf, but nothing has
worked yet. Once it loses the higher res modes I can't get them back. I
got them initially almost by accident, usually right after installing
the nvidia driver. The settings held through several warm boots. It's
really frustrating. There might be some trick to retain the higher res
modes but I haven't found it, other than just booting the xp partition.


What is the model number of the Philips 1080p HDTV ?

What resolution and refresh rate are you setting the main monitor
to, when the HDTV doesn't work ?

This is a good idea to check, but as I say, the settings to reproduce
results are blown away by the OS.

What happens when you connect both monitors, use Dual View, set
the HDTV to become "monitor #1", then dispose of the main
monitor, then bring the main monitor in as the clone ?


Another good test that I can't do on the higher res modes I had before.
Now, with the limited resolutions for the P815, clone mode seems to
default to 1280x1024 on the P815, and 1920x1080 on the HDTV according to
the display settings UI, which might work, but actually the HDTV appears
to be in some lower mode. So I have a 'clone' mode now but it's funky.


What does the Entechtaiwan Moninfo program report for the HDTV ?
What modes do you see supported or mentioned in there ?


All the good stuff, 1920x1080 60 hz. etc. I'm on another computer now
otherwise I would just copy it here.


http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

Paul

  #5  
Old August 25th 08, 10:33 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug


I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors, the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.



Thanks to everyone for answering. I think I have fixed the problem by disabling the CRT's EDID at the hardware level with some needle nose pliers http://www.overclock.net/faqs/47971-how-set-whatever-res-i-want.html. I now have Generic Monitor and all the hi-res modes and clone mode at 1920x1080 for the HDTV. It will not be possible for Vista to detect the monitor as a P815 ever again. I apologize in advance for any mistakes, and do not try this at home, etc.


  #6  
Old August 26th 08, 05:19 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

root wrote:
I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors,
the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the
video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the
monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have
a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone
mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have
to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort
of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed
several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a
driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of
the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video
configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the
way, and it didn't take a week to set up.


Thanks to everyone for answering. I think I have fixed the problem
by disabling the CRT's EDID at the hardware level with some needle
nose pliers http://www.overclock.net/faqs/47971-how-set-whatever-res-i-want.html.
I now have Generic Monitor and all the hi-res modes and clone mode
at 1920x1080 for the HDTV. It will not be possible for Vista to
detect the monitor as a P815 ever again. I apologize in advance
for any mistakes, and do not try this at home, etc.


Cool. Maybe there is a business opportunity here, making dongles
with the EDID disconnected :-) So somehow, a working EDID is a
trigger for some Vista monkey-business.

Paul
  #7  
Old August 26th 08, 06:07 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Paul wrote:
root wrote:
I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors,
the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the
video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the
monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have
a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone
mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have
to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort
of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed
several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a
driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of
the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video
configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the
way, and it didn't take a week to set up.


Thanks to everyone for answering. I think I have fixed the problem
by disabling the CRT's EDID at the hardware level with some needle
nose pliers
http://www.overclock.net/faqs/47971-how-set-whatever-res-i-want.html.
I now have Generic Monitor and all the hi-res modes and clone mode
at 1920x1080 for the HDTV. It will not be possible for Vista to
detect the monitor as a P815 ever again. I apologize in advance
for any mistakes, and do not try this at home, etc.


Cool. Maybe there is a business opportunity here, making dongles
with the EDID disconnected :-) So somehow, a working EDID is a
trigger for some Vista monkey-business.

Paul


There seems to be practically ziltch tech documentation for edid and
vista. It appears it enforces edid much more than XP ever did, and its
not the nvidia driver doing this. Now, moving on to the next screw job,
I believe I am finding that my video card, dvd drive, and crt monitor
are not acceptable to vista's media player for playing dvds. I get the
'can't play due to drm blah blah blah' error. I found one powerpoint
that says edid is 'required' on vista. Perhaps by cutting off edid I
will not be able to play dvds with media player. My first test with VLC
(which I use all the time on XP) was a bit disappointing since the HDTV
image seemed degraded with small distortions that I do not see on XP. I
have to run more tests. Honestly, they did a poor job with vista, and I
think I entered into this with an open mind 2 weeks ago. At least if
something won't work they should have technical support docs that really
say something, rather than the few extremely dumbed down support pages
they bothered to write.









  #8  
Old August 26th 08, 08:14 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

root wrote:


There seems to be practically ziltch tech documentation for edid and
vista. It appears it enforces edid much more than XP ever did, and its
not the nvidia driver doing this. Now, moving on to the next screw job,
I believe I am finding that my video card, dvd drive, and crt monitor
are not acceptable to vista's media player for playing dvds. I get the
'can't play due to drm blah blah blah' error. I found one powerpoint
that says edid is 'required' on vista. Perhaps by cutting off edid I
will not be able to play dvds with media player. My first test with VLC
(which I use all the time on XP) was a bit disappointing since the HDTV
image seemed degraded with small distortions that I do not see on XP. I
have to run more tests. Honestly, they did a poor job with vista, and I
think I entered into this with an open mind 2 weeks ago. At least if
something won't work they should have technical support docs that really
say something, rather than the few extremely dumbed down support pages
they bothered to write.


If that is the case, another possibility is -

Investigate reprogramming the EDID. This article is a good jumping off
point, even if it doesn't have every possible answer.

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

Gefen has a box, that can store a copy of an EDID, then play it back
to the computer. The Gefen box, would be used like this.

Video_card ---- Gefen ---- Monitor

The EDID comes from the Gefen, the video signal goes to the monitor.
To program the Gefen, you connect it to some monitor, say a
cheap_monitor that has a programmable EDID chip on it. Then
push the button on the Gefen, to get it to copy the monitor
info, to the EDID chip inside the Gefen. The cheap_monitor is
only necessary on the assumption that not all expensive_monitors
will support writing the EDID, and the cheap_monitor is an
intermediate step to give a degree of programmability. Too
bad the Gefen didn't have a local interface that allowed
tinkering. (Besides pulling out the EEPROM inside, and
replacing it with something.)

http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-DVI-EDIDN.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/Inside320.jpg (previous generation picture)

I just found this product, and apparently this device
has an RS-232 interface for programming. So you can
stuff a table of your own making, into this box, and
have it played back when the computer attempts to read the
EDID. It is a little bit pricey, but considering how many
of these they'd sell, I suppose it is worth it. I haven't
found a manual for this.

http://www.avenview.com/edid-reader-writer-p-560.html

At this point, I don't know what I'd write in the EDID, to make
Vista like it more. I mean, as soon as Vista realizes a high resolution
(higher than the movie industry likes) is "escaping from the
computer", then anything could happen.

I love experiments :-)

Good luck,
Paul
  #9  
Old August 26th 08, 08:32 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Mr.E Solved!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 888
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

root wrote:
I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors, the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.



Thanks to everyone for answering. I think I have fixed the problem by disabling the CRT's EDID at the hardware level with some needle nose pliers http://www.overclock.net/faqs/47971-how-set-whatever-res-i-want.html. I now have Generic Monitor and all the hi-res modes and clone mode at 1920x1080 for the HDTV. It will not be possible for Vista to detect the monitor as a P815 ever again. I apologize in advance for any mistakes, and do not try this at home, etc.



The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh rate
or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?

  #10  
Old August 26th 08, 09:21 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh rate
or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM

To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815 was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg

Paul
 




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