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Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 26th 08, 09:50 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Paul wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh
rate or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM


To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old Trinitron
came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815 was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg


Paul

Good idea, I forgot about the bnc connectors, I have the cable around
here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I wasn't using
anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far. The big regret is
the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from evga and nvidia don't
seem to have a clue about this problem. The last thing I got from them
was they wanted to rma the card.

Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack (I
think), but I have something else for that.




  #12  
Old August 26th 08, 10:21 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Shawk[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

root wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh
rate or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM


To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old
Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815 was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg


Paul

Good idea, I forgot about the bnc connectors, I have the cable around
here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I wasn't using
anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far. The big regret is
the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from evga and nvidia don't
seem to have a clue about this problem. The last thing I got from them
was they wanted to rma the card.

Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack (I
think), but I have something else for that.



Are you getting the issue because there has been a hardware 'change'
that the DRM is designed to look for and doesn't like? In which case
you just go to your DRM folder in Vista and delete everything in there.
New copies of the files are then generated for your 'new' hardware.

I hope its this simple.
  #13  
Old August 26th 08, 05:27 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Mr.E Solved!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 888
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Shawk wrote:
root wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh
rate or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM


To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old
Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815 was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg


Paul

Good idea, I forgot about the bnc connectors, I have the cable around
here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I wasn't
using anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far. The big
regret is the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from evga and
nvidia don't seem to have a clue about this problem. The last thing I
got from them was they wanted to rma the card.

Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack (I
think), but I have something else for that.



Are you getting the issue because there has been a hardware 'change'
that the DRM is designed to look for and doesn't like? In which case
you just go to your DRM folder in Vista and delete everything in there.
New copies of the files are then generated for your 'new' hardware.

I hope its this simple.


Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to work,
then your OS isn't for you.

Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their headaches.

Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user oriented
OSes all the more.
  #14  
Old August 26th 08, 06:11 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Shawk[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Mr.E Solved! wrote:
Shawk wrote:
root wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh
rate or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM


To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old
Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one
end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815 was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg


Paul
Good idea, I forgot about the bnc connectors, I have the cable around
here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I wasn't
using anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far. The big
regret is the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from evga and
nvidia don't seem to have a clue about this problem. The last thing I
got from them was they wanted to rma the card.

Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack
(I think), but I have something else for that.



Are you getting the issue because there has been a hardware 'change'
that the DRM is designed to look for and doesn't like? In which case
you just go to your DRM folder in Vista and delete everything in
there. New copies of the files are then generated for your 'new'
hardware.

I hope its this simple.


Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to work,
then your OS isn't for you.

Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their headaches.

Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user oriented
OSes all the more.



While I respect your views on a number of subjects your view on Vista is
at least one service pack out of date.


  #15  
Old August 26th 08, 06:33 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Mr.E Solved! wrote:

Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to work,
then your OS isn't for you.


If it weren't for my job I'd be over on ubuntu by now.

Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their headaches.


Don't agree. It's still early.

Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user oriented
OSes all the more.


I agree. I've read the survey docs on content protection. It's not going
to get any better -- microsoft is organizationally retarded. The media
player UI is so badly designed I'm shocked any time I open it. The media
center UI is also really awful -- extremely uncomfortable navigation,
and the channel guide is wrong, incomplete channel info for my area.
They are only driving people to the alternatives. VLC and BeyondTV are 2
that I use, and they completely blow away what microsoft has. Microsoft
will continue to lock down the content pathways and I don't know how
long these programs will work. It's absurd to pay this much for an
operating system and not be able to set your resolution or play a dvd
right out of the box. I still haven't been able to play a dvd with media
player... I never use it on xp so the same will hold for vista.
  #16  
Old August 26th 08, 07:21 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
root[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Paul wrote:
root wrote:


There seems to be practically ziltch tech documentation for edid and
vista. It appears it enforces edid much more than XP ever did, and its
not the nvidia driver doing this. Now, moving on to the next screw
job, I believe I am finding that my video card, dvd drive, and crt
monitor are not acceptable to vista's media player for playing dvds. I
get the 'can't play due to drm blah blah blah' error. I found one
powerpoint that says edid is 'required' on vista. Perhaps by cutting
off edid I will not be able to play dvds with media player. My first
test with VLC (which I use all the time on XP) was a bit disappointing
since the HDTV image seemed degraded with small distortions that I do
not see on XP. I have to run more tests. Honestly, they did a poor job
with vista, and I think I entered into this with an open mind 2 weeks
ago. At least if something won't work they should have technical
support docs that really say something, rather than the few extremely
dumbed down support pages they bothered to write.


If that is the case, another possibility is -

Investigate reprogramming the EDID. This article is a good jumping off
point, even if it doesn't have every possible answer.

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

Gefen has a box, that can store a copy of an EDID, then play it back
to the computer. The Gefen box, would be used like this.

Video_card ---- Gefen ---- Monitor

The EDID comes from the Gefen, the video signal goes to the monitor.
To program the Gefen, you connect it to some monitor, say a
cheap_monitor that has a programmable EDID chip on it. Then
push the button on the Gefen, to get it to copy the monitor
info, to the EDID chip inside the Gefen. The cheap_monitor is
only necessary on the assumption that not all expensive_monitors
will support writing the EDID, and the cheap_monitor is an
intermediate step to give a degree of programmability. Too
bad the Gefen didn't have a local interface that allowed
tinkering. (Besides pulling out the EEPROM inside, and
replacing it with something.)

http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-DVI-EDIDN.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/Inside320.jpg (previous generation
picture)

I just found this product, and apparently this device
has an RS-232 interface for programming. So you can
stuff a table of your own making, into this box, and
have it played back when the computer attempts to read the
EDID. It is a little bit pricey, but considering how many
of these they'd sell, I suppose it is worth it. I haven't
found a manual for this.

http://www.avenview.com/edid-reader-writer-p-560.html

At this point, I don't know what I'd write in the EDID, to make
Vista like it more. I mean, as soon as Vista realizes a high resolution
(higher than the movie industry likes) is "escaping from the
computer", then anything could happen.


I have confirmed that media player won't play a dvd because of the
unidentified analog monitor. Using only the hdtv, it plays ok. So I fix
one thing and another thing breaks. Instead of disabling EDID I could
spoof it in some way by reprogramming the monitor (?) or using one of
these gadgets. I wish the video driver could do this but I think they
are contractually obligated to disallow this sort of tinkering. They
have to protect the content pathway, but for a dvd it's sort of silly
since there are several software programs that can copy a dvd. Even if I
could reprogram the EDID to give me more resolution, the presence of an
analog VGA pathway may still force overall degradation by their drm
software. I don't know until I try it, and VLC is way easier instead.
















  #17  
Old August 26th 08, 11:23 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Mr.E Solved!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 888
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Shawk wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:
Shawk wrote:
root wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh
rate or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM


To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old
Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one
end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815
was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg


Paul
Good idea, I forgot about the bnc connectors, I have the cable
around here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I
wasn't using anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far. The
big regret is the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from evga
and nvidia don't seem to have a clue about this problem. The last
thing I got from them was they wanted to rma the card.

Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack
(I think), but I have something else for that.


Are you getting the issue because there has been a hardware 'change'
that the DRM is designed to look for and doesn't like? In which case
you just go to your DRM folder in Vista and delete everything in
there. New copies of the files are then generated for your 'new'
hardware.

I hope its this simple.


Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to
work, then your OS isn't for you.

Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their headaches.

Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user
oriented OSes all the more.



While I respect your views on a number of subjects your view on Vista is
at least one service pack out of date.


Vista's SP1 did nothing for this topic, my points are still topical and
the end result is end user disappointment/frustration/disgust/in search
of other solutions.

Don't be disingenuous, you have zero chance of convincing anyone in this
NG of Vista's superiority or even parity to alternative OS solutions,
even without the over-arching DRM deal-breaker.
  #18  
Old August 26th 08, 11:28 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Mr.E Solved!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 888
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

root wrote:
Paul wrote:
root wrote:


There seems to be practically ziltch tech documentation for edid and
vista. It appears it enforces edid much more than XP ever did, and
its not the nvidia driver doing this. Now, moving on to the next
screw job, I believe I am finding that my video card, dvd drive, and
crt monitor are not acceptable to vista's media player for playing
dvds. I get the 'can't play due to drm blah blah blah' error. I found
one powerpoint that says edid is 'required' on vista. Perhaps by
cutting off edid I will not be able to play dvds with media player.
My first test with VLC (which I use all the time on XP) was a bit
disappointing since the HDTV image seemed degraded with small
distortions that I do not see on XP. I have to run more tests.
Honestly, they did a poor job with vista, and I think I entered into
this with an open mind 2 weeks ago. At least if something won't work
they should have technical support docs that really say something,
rather than the few extremely dumbed down support pages they bothered
to write.


If that is the case, another possibility is -

Investigate reprogramming the EDID. This article is a good jumping off
point, even if it doesn't have every possible answer.

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

Gefen has a box, that can store a copy of an EDID, then play it back
to the computer. The Gefen box, would be used like this.

Video_card ---- Gefen ---- Monitor

The EDID comes from the Gefen, the video signal goes to the monitor.
To program the Gefen, you connect it to some monitor, say a
cheap_monitor that has a programmable EDID chip on it. Then
push the button on the Gefen, to get it to copy the monitor
info, to the EDID chip inside the Gefen. The cheap_monitor is
only necessary on the assumption that not all expensive_monitors
will support writing the EDID, and the cheap_monitor is an
intermediate step to give a degree of programmability. Too
bad the Gefen didn't have a local interface that allowed
tinkering. (Besides pulling out the EEPROM inside, and
replacing it with something.)

http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-DVI-EDIDN.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/Inside320.jpg (previous generation
picture)

I just found this product, and apparently this device
has an RS-232 interface for programming. So you can
stuff a table of your own making, into this box, and
have it played back when the computer attempts to read the
EDID. It is a little bit pricey, but considering how many
of these they'd sell, I suppose it is worth it. I haven't
found a manual for this.

http://www.avenview.com/edid-reader-writer-p-560.html

At this point, I don't know what I'd write in the EDID, to make
Vista like it more. I mean, as soon as Vista realizes a high resolution
(higher than the movie industry likes) is "escaping from the
computer", then anything could happen.


I have confirmed that media player won't play a dvd because of the
unidentified analog monitor. Using only the hdtv, it plays ok. So I fix
one thing and another thing breaks. Instead of disabling EDID I could
spoof it in some way by reprogramming the monitor (?) or using one of
these gadgets. I wish the video driver could do this but I think they
are contractually obligated to disallow this sort of tinkering. They
have to protect the content pathway, but for a dvd it's sort of silly
since there are several software programs that can copy a dvd. Even if I
could reprogram the EDID to give me more resolution, the presence of an
analog VGA pathway may still force overall degradation by their drm
software. I don't know until I try it, and VLC is way easier instead.


Windows DDM is loaded to the gills with DRM and performance crippling
device polling. That's right, many times a second the entire signal
pathway is checked for 'integrity' needlessly complexifying everything.

For what? To make your PC a glorified stand-alone HD-DVD player/ Games
for Windows/XBOX console.

By the way, if any current nvidia/msft/studio employees are in this
thread your paid opinions are noted. Now STFU and GBTW.
  #19  
Old August 26th 08, 11:39 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Shawk[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Mr.E Solved! wrote:
Shawk wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:
Shawk wrote:
root wrote:
Paul wrote:
Mr.E Solved! wrote:


The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and
thusly install as the default monitor and can have any resolution
refresh rate or timing you choose.

Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?


I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.

http://web.archive.org/web/199902241...5/P815SPEC.HTM


To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old
Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on
one end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the
P815 was
that old.

http://www.computercableinc.com/ccin...GB-CCStore.jpg


Paul
Good idea, I forgot about the bnc connectors, I have the cable
around here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I
wasn't using anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far.
The big regret is the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from
evga and nvidia don't seem to have a clue about this problem. The
last thing I got from them was they wanted to rma the card.

Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack
(I think), but I have something else for that.


Are you getting the issue because there has been a hardware 'change'
that the DRM is designed to look for and doesn't like? In which
case you just go to your DRM folder in Vista and delete everything
in there. New copies of the files are then generated for your 'new'
hardware.

I hope its this simple.

Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to
work, then your OS isn't for you.

Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their
headaches.

Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user
oriented OSes all the more.



While I respect your views on a number of subjects your view on Vista
is at least one service pack out of date.


Vista's SP1 did nothing for this topic, my points are still topical and
the end result is end user disappointment/frustration/disgust/in search
of other solutions.



By your own straw argument your first para was 'topical'. The other two
were neither 'topical' nor factual.


Don't be disingenuous, you have zero chance of convincing anyone in this
NG of Vista's superiority or even parity to alternative OS solutions,
even without the over-arching DRM deal-breaker.



"Disingenuous - Adjective - lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity;
falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere"

I'm none of those but at least you spelled it correctly. Neither am I
trying to convince anyone in this ng of anything but how to potentially
fix a problem. And I couldn't give a **** whether other people like
Vista or not. Unlike you it seems.

Feel free to have the last word - it'll probably matter more to you than me.



  #20  
Old August 26th 08, 11:45 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Shawk[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug

Mr.E Solved! wrote:


By the way, if any current nvidia/msft/studio employees are in this
thread your paid opinions are noted. Now STFU and GBTW.



Lol, I mend trucks so I know you don't mean me...

 




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