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#1
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$1000 to spend on a new computer
Hey all, heres the situation.
Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system. She's coming over from the Mac side of things (ibook) so there isn't any existing hardware to bring over. She's always wanting to build this all on her own, she's tired of depending on others (apple/friends) to fix things for her. Thank you to everyone that responds. I hate to bug people on this stuff since I know how many sites there are that review products. I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm sorta floundering trying to figure out where to start in on this and what suggestions I can give her for her build. While the reviews out there are nice its always good to get real world feedback on this stuff. CPU: While I was pretty up to date on the AMD stuff when I built my system in Jan, I know things have changed a bit, advice here would be great since the CPU and motherboard are the core of the system. Unfortunately I don't know much in the Intel world, so any insight in to Intel sides of things would be fantastic. Also any good heatsink/fans etc. if the stock coolers are subpar. She's not looking to overclock last I checked. Motherboard: This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards. RAM: Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this still the case? Video: Art and Gaming.. the 2 big concerns from what I understand. I'm going to guess she'll go top end (be kinda a shame if she didn't), my personal taste is to Nvidia, so like the CPU issue I could use some info from the ATI camp so I can give her a good case for each. Also any word about PCI-Express? She's an artist so while some 3D will probably happen (Bryce), it will be kinda sparse from what I understand. Her graphic emphasis will be web design, 2D imaging (Photoshop, illustrator) and Flash. Plus most of her stuff is hand drawn, not digital. Hard Drive: I was personally thinking something like a Raptor for a system disk and them pick up one of the new 16meg cache drives that are due out soon for a storage drive. Any yays or nays on this idea? I know Seagate and WD are both supposed to be coming out soon with some impressive drives and right now Maxtor is putting out a drive with high capacity platters and 16megs of cache while also working with Intels ICH-6 which seems to supposedly increase speeds. If anyone has any real would experience with this stuff I'd love to hear it. I've only seen a few reviews about it. Sound: Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile so it may be a good way of going about it. Case: I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could carry without a forklift would be cool but still be solid. We live in Mid California so while the temps don't get way high we can get up to 90 F so something with decent cooling (without sounding like a jet, so no Delta 80's). Monitor: The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw so any advice on neutral mice would be cool). OK so that turned in to a blood novel instead of a post. But I thank anyone that actually went though all this. I am of course doing as much research as I can in this but I always try and get insight on this stuff. Again thanks ~A |
#2
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Azaran2003 wrote: Hey all, heres the situation. Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system. She's coming over from the Mac side of things (ibook) so there isn't any existing hardware to bring over. She's always wanting to build this all on her own, she's tired of depending on others (apple/friends) to fix things for her. Thank you to everyone that responds. I hate to bug people on this stuff since I know how many sites there are that review products. I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm sorta floundering trying to figure out where to start in on this and what suggestions I can give her for her build. While the reviews out there are nice its always good to get real world feedback on this stuff. CPU: While I was pretty up to date on the AMD stuff when I built my system in Jan, I know things have changed a bit, advice here would be great since the CPU and motherboard are the core of the system. Unfortunately I don't know much in the Intel world, so any insight in to Intel sides of things would be fantastic. Forget about Intel, and use an Athlon 64. An Athlon 64 3000+ is only around $160. It is a great performer. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=1 Also any good heatsink/fans etc. if the stock coolers are subpar. She's not looking to overclock last I checked. Motherboard: This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards. RAM: Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this still the case? Video: Art and Gaming.. the 2 big concerns from what I understand. I'm going to guess she'll go top end (be kinda a shame if she didn't), my personal taste is to Nvidia, so like the CPU issue I could use some info from the ATI camp so I can give her a good case for each. Also any word about PCI-Express? She's an artist so while some 3D will probably happen (Bryce), it will be kinda sparse from what I understand. Her graphic emphasis will be web design, 2D imaging (Photoshop, illustrator) A gig of ram would be a good idea. and Flash. Plus most of her stuff is hand drawn, not digital. Hard Drive: I was personally thinking something like a Raptor for a system disk and them pick up one of the new 16meg cache drives that are due out soon for a storage drive. Any yays or nays on this idea? I know Seagate and WD are both supposed to be coming out soon with some impressive drives and right now Maxtor is putting out a drive with high capacity platters and 16megs of cache while also working with Intels ICH-6 which seems to supposedly increase speeds. If anyone has any real would experience with this stuff I'd love to hear it. I've only seen a few reviews about it. Sound: Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile so it may be a good way of going about it. Case: I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could carry without a forklift would be cool but still be solid. We live in Mid California so while the temps don't get way high we can get up to 90 F so something with decent cooling (without sounding like a jet, so no Delta 80's). Monitor: The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw so any advice on neutral mice would be cool). I am a lefty, and love my Microsoft optical wheel mouse. It was inexpensive, and is the first mouse that has lasted me over two years. OK so that turned in to a blood novel instead of a post. But I thank anyone that actually went though all this. I am of course doing as much research as I can in this but I always try and get insight on this stuff. Again thanks ~A |
#3
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On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:57:36 -0400, JK wrote:
Azaran2003 wrote: Hey all, heres the situation. Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system. She's coming over from the Mac side of things (ibook) so there isn't any existing hardware to bring over. She's always wanting to build this all on her own, she's tired of depending on others (apple/friends) to fix things for her. Thank you to everyone that responds. I hate to bug people on this stuff since I know how many sites there are that review products. I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm sorta floundering trying to figure out where to start in on this and what suggestions I can give her for her build. While the reviews out there are nice its always good to get real world feedback on this stuff. CPU: While I was pretty up to date on the AMD stuff when I built my system in Jan, I know things have changed a bit, advice here would be great since the CPU and motherboard are the core of the system. Unfortunately I don't know much in the Intel world, so any insight in to Intel sides of things would be fantastic. Forget about Intel, and use an Athlon 64. An Athlon 64 3000+ is only around $160. It is a great performer. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=1 Also any good heatsink/fans etc. if the stock coolers are subpar. She's not looking to overclock last I checked. The stock fans from AMD seem pretty decent nowadays. Motherboard: This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards. If you want to get one under 1000 the 754 sockets are very cheap , (VIA) K8T800 by ASUS which is decked out with options I think was 113 at newegg. No PCI express though. You have to wait for the K8T890 or probably even later, a new nforce 3 or 4. . http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2063&p=16 RAM: Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this still the case? Video: Art and Gaming.. the 2 big concerns from what I understand. I'm going to guess she'll go top end (be kinda a shame if she didn't), my personal taste is to Nvidia, so like the CPU issue I could use some info from the ATI camp so I can give her a good case for each. Also any word about PCI-Express? I dont see any AMD socket boards with PCI express yet. The Intel boards are already out. VIAs K8T890 supposedly is delayed to Sept now , it was the end of Aug. As for AGP+PCI EXPRESS Im not sure. Both SIS and the K8t890s were described as possilby having AGP + PCI express slots back in Jan, then I didnt see any mention of AGP at VIAs site and in subsequent descriptions of the 8t890s. However in a recent Anandtech article - they once gain mention it will have both , so who knows. Evernthough PCI express like sata and ATA133 or AGP 8x might not have any real world performance benefits ---- Id like to get a PCI express + AGP board if the prices are reasonable. Not sure about Nforce3 + PCI express - some are calling it Nforce4. Also read the Inquirer article about it having Soundstorm2 was probably not true. Maybe DUHHHH thats why the AMD motherboards seem so cheap now. Everyones getting ready to replace them with the PCI express versions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ATI: PCI Express Could Reach 50% Penetration In 2004 By Mark Hachman ATI Technologies Inc. said Friday that the company had shipped a million PCI Express graphics cards, in line with what the company sees as a rapid transition to the new interface standard. Vijay Sharma, the group leader of desktop products at ATI, said that the company expects a faster transition to PCI Express from AGP than the PCI-AGP shift, or the transition from the ancient VESA local bus to PCI. Sharma said that ATI has enjoyed virtually all of the major OEM design wins for PCI Express graphics, a statement backed up by analysts. The shift to PCI Express is an important transition for the industry, as both chipmakers and cardmakers alike will have to watch their inventory levels closely. A recall of the Grantsdale PCI Express chipset soon after it was launched essentially froze the high-end market, Intel executives said during a second-quarter conference call. ATI's claim that it sold a million PCI Express graphics chips also indicates that Intel has sold probably just over a million of its own chipsets. "It's good to see the fruits of our labor," Sharma said. By the end of 2004, Sharma estimated, nearly half of the PCs sold will contain a PCI Express graphics chip. By the end of 2005, he said, that figure should reach about 90 percent. Sharma described both estimates as "sort of finger in the wind statements," however. ATI will also release a PCI Express graphics chip that will "put the 6600 in its place," Sharma said, referring to the recent launch of Nvidia's 6600 and 6600GT PCI Express chips. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Anandtechs fall round up: New BTX form factor cases are also appearing from a number of vendors. Add it all together and you get the biggest changes in PC architecture that we have seen in quite a while. NOOOOO!!!!! Those b$$$$$tards ! We''ll have to buy EVERYTHING over again. She's an artist so while some 3D will probably happen (Bryce), it will be kinda sparse from what I understand. Her graphic emphasis will be web design, 2D imaging (Photoshop, illustrator) A gig of ram would be a good idea. Ive been buying low end mem Kingston value , Centon , PNY 3200 sticks and it works fine. However there have been some recent sales in the 70 buck range for 3200 512 sticks on Corsair and now Mushkin etc at Newegg. I guess it all depends on how picky the board she gets is. and Flash. Plus most of her stuff is hand drawn, not digital. Hard Drive: I was personally thinking something like a Raptor for a system disk and them pick up one of the new 16meg cache drives that are due out soon for a storage drive. Any yays or nays on this idea? I know Seagate and WD are both supposed to be coming out soon with some impressive drives and right now Maxtor is putting out a drive with high capacity platters and 16megs of cache while also working with Intels ICH-6 which seems to supposedly increase speeds. If anyone has any real would experience with this stuff I'd love to hear it. I've only seen a few reviews about it. Some people recommend getting a fast drive and a cheaper large one for general storage. There are tons of sales on 7200 ide drives. Compusa and FRYs has the seagate 160 gig for 59 bucks after rebate this week. Only has a 1 year warranty though. I was thinking about one of the fast drives but worry about the heat. The 7200 drives seem to generate way more heat than than the older ones so I really wonder about the 10,000 rpm drives though the raptors they say are really well built and have long warranties. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1541674,00.asp http://www.storagereview.com/article...revisit_1.html Sound: Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile so it may be a good way of going about it. Generally OK but if shes really a game fanatic you can get the audigy on sale. Compusa had it recently for 79 after rebate (audigy 2 lz) and I recall seeing it for around that price , a bit cheaper at one place in pricewatch.com. Get halfway decent speakers. I got the logitech 640z for 49 several months ago. Case: I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could carry without a forklift would be cool but still be solid. We live in Mid California so while the temps don't get way high we can get up to 90 F so something with decent cooling (without sounding like a jet, so no Delta 80's). You could get a aluminum case - the decent ones that cost about 100 bucks. They tend to be fairly well made and light. Ive already posted I dont like the Antec mid tower lan boy types. They seem too flimsy - the panels --- but others seem to like it. Monitor: The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw so any advice on neutral mice would be cool). I am a lefty, and love my Microsoft optical wheel mouse. It was inexpensive, and is the first mouse that has lasted me over two years. I like them too but its not radically different than any other mouse but it seems better made than many others Ive seen and used. Ive bought about 10 optical mice -anytime they are on sale and I like MS the best. I have a logitech low priced one too and thats decent also. Some of the others the wires are very flimsy. OFfice depot is selling them now for 4.99 this week in my region. |
#4
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"Azaran2003" wrote in message ... Hey all, heres the situation. Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system. CPU: AMD 64 is the CPU of choice these days. Find where the price jumps up a lot and get the CPU below that. An extra $10 or $20 for the next best CPU is fine, but $100? Nope. Motherboard: VIA was the chipset to avoid before. Can't say much about them these days. Having extra options on board is always good and they can be disabled if you don't need them. Don't spend a lot more for a board just to get an extra option though. RAM: 1gig for sure. Determine the speed of memory that you'll need to match the CPU and find the cheapest NAME BRAND that meets the spec. Then add about 10-20% to that price and see if you can find lower latency or faster speed. You don't want to spend too much extra for a small gain in performance. You'll want a pair of 512's and not a single 1gig stick. Consider ECC memory if your mainboard supports it. Video: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. 128meg version of these cards is selling at a reasonable price. 9600XT would be a cheaper second choice. As for PCI-e... Definately a good place to start, but it's a bit early as far as availability goes. If you can find a good mainboard with PCI-e and a videocard to match definately go for it, but don't spend a lot more for it. The deciding factor is how long she plans on keeping the machine without upgrading. Hard Drive: I recently got a 34gig Raptor. I don't notice a large improvement and the drive is louder than the rest I have when seeking. A pair of these in RAID 0 might make a noticable performance difference and most mainboards provide RAID these days. Does add a bit of cost for a small amount of fast storage though. Sound: Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile so it may be a good way of going about it. Smart move. She can always add a soundcard later if needed. Avoid anything made by Creative though. Case: I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could Has she considered one of the Shuttle cube machines? Not a lot of room for upgrades and you won't be able to install Raptors for RAID, but they are still good performers if you don't plan on adding a bunch of cards into the machine. Monitor: The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw so any advice on neutral mice would be cool). Go optical and cordless for the mouse (Cordless keyboard is cool too, but don't spend a lot extra to get one). Best to go to the local bigbox store and see what is comfortable. |
#5
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Noozer wrote:
Smart move. She can always add a soundcard later if needed. Avoid anything made by Creative though. Why? I've never had any problems with any Creative card I've had. What do you recommend instead? -- My great-grandfather was born and raised in Elgin - did he eventually lose his marbles? |
#6
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Azaran2003 wrote:
.... snip ... Motherboard: This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards. Just make sure the chipset can handle ECC memory. See the "Error Correction" thread here. RAM: Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this still the case? I highly recommend ECC memory. However, if you don't want to spend the money (15 to 25% increase in memory cost) now you can get less capable memory and choose to upgrade later, iff you have the motherboard capability. -- Chuck F ) ) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. http://cbfalconer.home.att.net USE worldnet address! |
#7
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"CBFalconer" wrote:
Azaran2003 wrote: ... snip ... Motherboard: This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards. Just make sure the chipset can handle ECC memory. See the "Error Correction" thread here. RAM: Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this still the case? I highly recommend ECC memory. However, if you don't want to spend the money (15 to 25% increase in memory cost) now you can get less capable memory and choose to upgrade later, iff you have the motherboard capability. That brings up a good point. Do Macs use ECC memory? Jon |
#8
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#9
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CPU:
AMD64, go for a 939 socket Motherboard: VIA chipset for AMD64, nForce2 for AthXP RAM: At least 1GB of PC3500 Video: For top of the line, go nVidia 6800 or ATI x800 - avoid creative and 'no-name' cards as hey underperform Hard Drive: I'd go for a RAID array of 4 Maxtor disks with 8MB caches, choose whatever size you want. Sound: Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile so it may be a good way of going about it. If you get an nForce2 (with AthlonXP) choose an ultra board for better sound hamman |
#10
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Hey guys, thanks for all the suggestions. quick question on the ram. Couple of
you suggested doing 2x512 instead of a single stick of 1gig. Aside from running dual channel, is there a good reason for it? Are the timing any worse, and if so by how much? And will a latency difference of 2.0 - 3.0 really make a noticiable difference? I'm not talking benchmarks but real world difference (one of the hard things to find out in a review). Thanks again everyone ~A |
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