P5GD2 Deluxe

OK, after looking and looking and more looking, I am narrowing down
my choices of Pentium motherboards to the Asus P5GD2 Deluxe. I don't
need all the bells and whistles of the premium edition.



The top performer and clearly undisputed winner in the Anand Tech
Roundup and pleased to award the AnandTech Gold Editors Choice to the
Asus P5GD2 Premium...



http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2293&p=33



What is so bad about the 915 chipset that people were/are avoiding
it?



Would another Asus Pentium motherboard be a better choice?



Davïd

Greenville, NC

In article , "Ðavïd"
wrote:

OK, after looking and looking and more looking, I am narrowing down
my choices of Pentium motherboards to the Asus P5GD2 Deluxe. I don't
need all the bells and whistles of the premium edition.

The top performer and clearly undisputed winner in the Anand Tech
Roundup and pleased to award the AnandTech Gold Editors Choice to the
Asus P5GD2 Premium...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2293&p=33

What is so bad about the 915 chipset that people were/are avoiding
it?

Would another Asus Pentium motherboard be a better choice?

Davïd

Greenville, NC

Nothing. If you've got the cash for it, enjoy.
As long as a board has been out for at least
three months, and has gotten its share of BIOS
work, it should be safe to use. (Intro July 2004,
last BIOS 10/01/2004)

Write us a short review when you get it set up, as there
isn't a lot in Google on it, pro or con.

I think both the Premium and the Deluxe have Voice POST,
so if you have any trouble getting it set up, you'll have
voice messages on the Lineout connector to guide you.

Don't forget to test with memtest86 (memtest.org) and
Prime95 (mersenne.org), before the return period for
your purchases is up. Many people use OS stability as their
only metric for a healthy system, and testing with
specific utilities will find problems a lot faster.
3DMark or a 3D game, will find a flaky video card, after
you are done with memtest86 and prime95.

And have a close look at the temps on your LGA775 processor.
If the P4 LGA775 gets hot enough, it goes into thermal
throttle, and your benchmarks will drop as a result.
I think the throttle cuts in at around 70C or so.

You can get more info on the processors he

http://processorfinder.intel.com (select P4 Pentium)
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/info.htm

Some processors are available at two power levels. The E0
stepping here is only 84W, compared to the other D0 stepping
processor which is 115W. So ask what SSPEC processor your
vendor currently stocks, as a newer stepping processor will
be easier to cool.

3.4Ghz 84W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7PZ

3.4Ghz 115W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7KM

Also, look carefully at the PSU, to make sure it has the
right connectors for the board. The new boards have a 24 pin
connector for main power, and the main benefit of the 24 pin,
is that it has an extra +12V pin, which helps feed the new
PCI Express video card slot. The 20 pin will work (and it
only fits one way), so you can use it if you want, but it
means the PCI Express video card slot is fed through only
one wire, instead of two with the new connector.

Have fun,
Paul

Paul wrote:
In article , "Ðavïd"
wrote:


OK, after looking and looking and more looking, I am narrowing down
my choices of Pentium motherboards to the Asus P5GD2 Deluxe. I don't
need all the bells and whistles of the premium edition.

The top performer and clearly undisputed winner in the Anand Tech
Roundup and pleased to award the AnandTech Gold Editors Choice to the
Asus P5GD2 Premium...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2293&p=33

What is so bad about the 915 chipset that people were/are avoiding
it?

Would another Asus Pentium motherboard be a better choice?

Davïd

Greenville, NC


Nothing. If you've got the cash for it, enjoy.
As long as a board has been out for at least
three months, and has gotten its share of BIOS
work, it should be safe to use. (Intro July 2004,
last BIOS 10/01/2004)

Write us a short review when you get it set up, as there
isn't a lot in Google on it, pro or con.

I think both the Premium and the Deluxe have Voice POST,
so if you have any trouble getting it set up, you'll have
voice messages on the Lineout connector to guide you.

Don't forget to test with memtest86 (memtest.org) and
Prime95 (mersenne.org), before the return period for
your purchases is up. Many people use OS stability as their
only metric for a healthy system, and testing with
specific utilities will find problems a lot faster.
3DMark or a 3D game, will find a flaky video card, after
you are done with memtest86 and prime95.

And have a close look at the temps on your LGA775 processor.
If the P4 LGA775 gets hot enough, it goes into thermal
throttle, and your benchmarks will drop as a result.
I think the throttle cuts in at around 70C or so.

You can get more info on the processors he

http://processorfinder.intel.com (select P4 Pentium)
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/info.htm

Some processors are available at two power levels. The E0
stepping here is only 84W, compared to the other D0 stepping
processor which is 115W. So ask what SSPEC processor your
vendor currently stocks, as a newer stepping processor will
be easier to cool.

3.4Ghz 84W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7PZ

3.4Ghz 115W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7KM

Also, look carefully at the PSU, to make sure it has the
right connectors for the board. The new boards have a 24 pin
connector for main power, and the main benefit of the 24 pin,
is that it has an extra +12V pin, which helps feed the new
PCI Express video card slot. The 20 pin will work (and it
only fits one way), so you can use it if you want, but it
means the PCI Express video card slot is fed through only
one wire, instead of two with the new connector.


Is the extra 12V connection on the 24 pin connector only used for PCI
Express? The reason I ask is that I have a P5P800 which has the 24 pin
ATX connector but does not have an PCI Express slots. I got a power
supply with the right connector but wonder if I needed to.


Have fun,
Paul

In article ,
"Michael W. Ryder" wrote:

snip

Is the extra 12V connection on the 24 pin connector only used for PCI
Express? The reason I ask is that I have a P5P800 which has the 24 pin
ATX connector but does not have an PCI Express slots. I got a power
supply with the right connector but wonder if I needed to.



I haven't a clue why they did that. It doesn't make much sense,
because as a rule, the only load on the main ATX power connector
is the fan headers, for the single +12V signal. The 2x2 connector
supplies the heavy processor Vcore current via two of the four
pins (the other two pins are ground returns).

Adding a second +12V pin via the 24 pin version of the connector
just doesn't add up. Neither do the other extra pins (3,5,gnd listed
in the manual) appear to be necessary, as the existing +3.3V
and +5V pins were already enough for the job. This is, after all,
a P4P800 board, with a LGA775 processor socket, so power requirements
should be very similar to the P4P800. Hope I'm not missing something
obvious there...

Maybe the marketing department wanted all the P5xxxx boards to
be the same :-)

Paul

Paul wrote...
I haven't a clue why they did that. It doesn't make much sense,
because as a rule, the only load on the main ATX power connector
is the fan headers, for the single +12V signal. The 2x2 connector
supplies the heavy processor Vcore current via two of the four
pins (the other two pins are ground returns).

Adding a second +12V pin via the 24 pin version of the connector
just doesn't add up. Neither do the other extra pins (3,5,gnd
listed
in the manual) appear to be necessary, as the existing +3.3V
and +5V pins were already enough for the job. This is, after all,
a P4P800 board, with a LGA775 processor socket, so power
requirements
should be very similar to the P4P800. Hope I'm not missing
something
obvious there...

Maybe the marketing department wanted all the P5xxxx boards to
be the same :-)


Thanks Paul for your wealth of information. I have a brand new Antec
480 watt True Power I was hoping to use with my new build. It has the
ATX12V connector. Are you saying the 24 pin connector used for PCI
Express is different from the ATX12V connector? If it is different,
what should I do? Get an adapter or another power supply with the
correct PCI Express connector?

Davïd
Greenville, NC

In article , "Ðavïd"
wrote:

Paul wrote...
I haven't a clue why they did that. It doesn't make much sense,
because as a rule, the only load on the main ATX power connector
is the fan headers, for the single +12V signal. The 2x2 connector
supplies the heavy processor Vcore current via two of the four
pins (the other two pins are ground returns).

Adding a second +12V pin via the 24 pin version of the connector
just doesn't add up. Neither do the other extra pins (3,5,gnd
listed
in the manual) appear to be necessary, as the existing +3.3V
and +5V pins were already enough for the job. This is, after all,
a P4P800 board, with a LGA775 processor socket, so power
requirements
should be very similar to the P4P800. Hope I'm not missing
something
obvious there...

Maybe the marketing department wanted all the P5xxxx boards to
be the same :-)


Thanks Paul for your wealth of information. I have a brand new Antec
480 watt True Power I was hoping to use with my new build. It has the
ATX12V connector. Are you saying the 24 pin connector used for PCI
Express is different from the ATX12V connector? If it is different,
what should I do? Get an adapter or another power supply with the
correct PCI Express connector?

Davïd
Greenville, NC

The previous generation of power supplies (which is all I've got for
my computers) has 20 pin ATX power for the main power connector, and
a 2x2 power connector that feeds the processor exclusively. The
previous generation of motherboards used PCI bus for add-in cards,
and AGP slot for video card. If the AGP card needed extra power, that
power came through a cable plugged directly into the video card.

On the PCI Express motherboards, the motherboards use a mix of
normal PCI slots (for backward compatibility, so you can plug in
a SoundBlaster or an old modem card) and they have PCI Express
slots. For PCI Express, the slot has some extra power pins,
intended for handling larger current requirements. Currently, the
only card that really needs that kind of power, is a PCI Express
video card. I think the power coming through the slot can be
up to ~75 watts or so.

So, the intention was, to make PCI Express video cards draw their
power through the motherboard slot, so no more auxiliary cables
would need to be plugged into the cards. But, depending on the
mood of the video card designers, you might still see a place
for aux power connector.

The situation with +12V is this. If you examine the ATX 20 pin
power connector, it has one +12V pin on it. Each pin in that
connector can handle a current flow of 6 amps. If you look at
the new 24 pin power connector, it has two +12V pins on it.
That means a total of a little less than 12 amps could flow if
needed.

Some of the high end PCI Express cards are drawing the majority
of their power from +12V. If a card like that has no aux power
cable, all the power comes through the PCI Express slot.

This article has some power measurements for video cards.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...powercons.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...-nv-power.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...00gt-oc_3.html

Some of the hottest video cards are drawing 4.5 amps from +12V.
The fans powered through the motherboard header draw 1 amp or so
from +12V. The total could be 5.5 amps. If you only use the
ATX 20 pin power connector, to power a 24 pin motherboard, then
only one pin carries that 5.5 amp current. The pin itself is
rated for 6 amps. All is still within spec, but the practice
of drawing close to the rated current is not exactly a good
one. In a situation where you are using an expensive video card
like that, it may be a wise idea to either find an adapter
that converts from 20 pin to 24 pin (which will take one +12V
wire and connect it to two connector pins), or get a proper
power supply with the 24 pin power connector on it (which will
have two wires and two pins for +12V). It all depends on how you
feel about drawing 5.5 amps through a 6 amp pin.

So it is not a big deal. If the pin carrying the current starts
to fail, it will get hot, and the plastic will start to
melt. Probably by the time it gets that bad, the video card
will be crashing out in 3D games. I haven't read or heard of
anyone having a problem with using a 20 pin connector on a
24 pin motherboard, and if anything, it is more likely that
an old power supply simply wouldn't be up to the task of driving
the heavier load of a P5xxx board.

On the P5P800 motherboard, which is a P4P800 AGP based board,
only with a LGA775 socket for the new processors, there is little
reason to be using the 24 pin power connector. That is because
the board is using an AGP video slot, and any heavy power
requirement will be met by plugging a disk drive connector into
the AGP card.

Summary: Low risk using an existing 20 pin ATX power in a
P5xxx 24 pin power connector. Depending on the way it
is designed, an adapter could be used, and reduces the
risk further. (I wouldn't bother buying an adapter
myself.) If the current ATX power supply seems
unstable (due to not meeting the motherboard total
requirements), then upgrade. If you do a lot of
overclocking, consider a better supply.

HTH,
Paul

Paul wrote...

Nothing. If you've got the cash for it, enjoy.
As long as a board has been out for at least
three months, and has gotten its share of BIOS
work, it should be safe to use. (Intro July 2004,
last BIOS 10/01/2004)

Write us a short review when you get it set up, as there
isn't a lot in Google on it, pro or con.

I think both the Premium and the Deluxe have Voice POST,
so if you have any trouble getting it set up, you'll have
voice messages on the Lineout connector to guide you.

Don't forget to test with memtest86 (memtest.org) and
Prime95 (mersenne.org), before the return period for
your purchases is up. Many people use OS stability as their
only metric for a healthy system, and testing with
specific utilities will find problems a lot faster.
3DMark or a 3D game, will find a flaky video card, after
you are done with memtest86 and prime95.

And have a close look at the temps on your LGA775 processor.
If the P4 LGA775 gets hot enough, it goes into thermal
throttle, and your benchmarks will drop as a result.
I think the throttle cuts in at around 70C or so.

You can get more info on the processors he

http://processorfinder.intel.com (select P4 Pentium)
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/info.htm

Some processors are available at two power levels. The E0
stepping here is only 84W, compared to the other D0 stepping
processor which is 115W. So ask what SSPEC processor your
vendor currently stocks, as a newer stepping processor will
be easier to cool.

3.4Ghz 84W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7PZ

3.4Ghz 115W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7KM

Also, look carefully at the PSU, to make sure it has the
right connectors for the board. The new boards have a 24 pin
connector for main power, and the main benefit of the 24 pin,
is that it has an extra +12V pin, which helps feed the new
PCI Express video card slot. The 20 pin will work (and it
only fits one way), so you can use it if you want, but it
means the PCI Express video card slot is fed through only
one wire, instead of two with the new connector.



Thanks again Paul for your valued response. Wow! I dunno where to
start. As for the cash, I do not need the latest and greatest cutting
edge technology as I'm not going to attempt to squeeze every bit of
performance out of it by overclocking. My main reason of asking for
advice from this newsgroup is to hopefully avoid problems that plague
some motherboards and/or new releases.Yes, I want to spend my hard
earned money wisely and get it right the first time. I was
considering a full flavor Pentium 2.8 or 3.0 800FSB processor for
reducing an expendure. Starting out with 512 RAM and doubling it at a
later date. Utilizing the onboard audio saving the expense of a sound
card.



Pretty much everything else is laying around the house for use or
reuse, case, power supply, hard drive, CD writer, monitor, speakers,
cables, keyboard and mouse, except for the PCIe video card. Ouch!
That is where I'll prolly spend more than I intended from the onset.
What I want is at least 256mb. At this point, everything about the
video card is undecided. Heck, I'm not certain if I should go with
ATI or nVIDA. Should I purchase a value priced video card now and
update later when the price comes down on the nicer video cards?
Also, I'm wondering if this strategy would be prudent towards the
evolving technology of the PCIe video cards.



I went to memtest.org and saw a lot of downloads. Not being certain
which download to select along with the apprehension of downloading
anything to see what it does, I will need a bit of advice before I
attempt this. I guess Prime95 and 3DMark are similar type test.



Again, thanks Paul for your advice.

Davïd

Greenville, NC

Ðavïd wrote:

Paul wrote...


Nothing. If you've got the cash for it, enjoy.
As long as a board has been out for at least
three months, and has gotten its share of BIOS
work, it should be safe to use. (Intro July 2004,
last BIOS 10/01/2004)

Write us a short review when you get it set up, as there
isn't a lot in Google on it, pro or con.

I think both the Premium and the Deluxe have Voice POST,
so if you have any trouble getting it set up, you'll have
voice messages on the Lineout connector to guide you.

Don't forget to test with memtest86 (memtest.org) and
Prime95 (mersenne.org), before the return period for
your purchases is up. Many people use OS stability as their
only metric for a healthy system, and testing with
specific utilities will find problems a lot faster.
3DMark or a 3D game, will find a flaky video card, after
you are done with memtest86 and prime95.

And have a close look at the temps on your LGA775 processor.
If the P4 LGA775 gets hot enough, it goes into thermal
throttle, and your benchmarks will drop as a result.
I think the throttle cuts in at around 70C or so.

You can get more info on the processors he

http://processorfinder.intel.com (select P4 Pentium)
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/info.htm

Some processors are available at two power levels. The E0
stepping here is only 84W, compared to the other D0 stepping
processor which is 115W. So ask what SSPEC processor your
vendor currently stocks, as a newer stepping processor will
be easier to cool.

3.4Ghz 84W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7PZ

3.4Ghz 115W
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...sp?sSpec=SL7KM

Also, look carefully at the PSU, to make sure it has the
right connectors for the board. The new boards have a 24 pin
connector for main power, and the main benefit of the 24 pin,
is that it has an extra +12V pin, which helps feed the new
PCI Express video card slot. The 20 pin will work (and it
only fits one way), so you can use it if you want, but it
means the PCI Express video card slot is fed through only
one wire, instead of two with the new connector.




Thanks again Paul for your valued response. Wow! I dunno where to
start. As for the cash, I do not need the latest and greatest cutting
edge technology as I'm not going to attempt to squeeze every bit of
performance out of it by overclocking. My main reason of asking for
advice from this newsgroup is to hopefully avoid problems that plague
some motherboards and/or new releases.Yes, I want to spend my hard
earned money wisely and get it right the first time. I was
considering a full flavor Pentium 2.8 or 3.0 800FSB processor for
reducing an expendure. Starting out with 512 RAM and doubling it at a
later date. Utilizing the onboard audio saving the expense of a sound
card.



Pretty much everything else is laying around the house for use or
reuse, case, power supply, hard drive, CD writer, monitor, speakers,
cables, keyboard and mouse, except for the PCIe video card. Ouch!
That is where I'll prolly spend more than I intended from the onset.
What I want is at least 256mb. At this point, everything about the
video card is undecided. Heck, I'm not certain if I should go with
ATI or nVIDA. Should I purchase a value priced video card now and
update later when the price comes down on the nicer video cards?
Also, I'm wondering if this strategy would be prudent towards the
evolving technology of the PCIe video cards.


If you have a good video card and DDR memory and just want to upgrade to
a new Prescott processor you might want to look at the P5P800
motherboard. It uses standard DDR (instead of DDR2) memory and uses a
standard AGP video card. I bought one because I wanted to upgrade my
CPU but did not want to have to spend a lot of money and time trying to
replace my Radeon 9700 Pro. It has a 24 pin connector but works fine
with a 20 pin connector from the power supply.
I bought the board, a 3.4 Prescott, and 1 GB of Corsair memory for less
than $600. I had to get new memory as my old memory was RDRAM.


I went to memtest.org and saw a lot of downloads. Not being certain
which download to select along with the apprehension of downloading
anything to see what it does, I will need a bit of advice before I
attempt this. I guess Prime95 and 3DMark are similar type test.



Again, thanks Paul for your advice.

Davïd

Greenville, NC

In article , "Ðavïd"
wrote:

snip

Thanks again Paul for your valued response. Wow! I dunno where to
start. As for the cash, I do not need the latest and greatest cutting
edge technology as I'm not going to attempt to squeeze every bit of
performance out of it by overclocking. My main reason of asking for
advice from this newsgroup is to hopefully avoid problems that plague
some motherboards and/or new releases.Yes, I want to spend my hard
earned money wisely and get it right the first time. I was
considering a full flavor Pentium 2.8 or 3.0 800FSB processor for
reducing an expendure. Starting out with 512 RAM and doubling it at a
later date. Utilizing the onboard audio saving the expense of a sound
card.



Pretty much everything else is laying around the house for use or
reuse, case, power supply, hard drive, CD writer, monitor, speakers,
cables, keyboard and mouse, except for the PCIe video card. Ouch!
That is where I'll prolly spend more than I intended from the onset.
What I want is at least 256mb. At this point, everything about the
video card is undecided. Heck, I'm not certain if I should go with
ATI or nVIDA. Should I purchase a value priced video card now and
update later when the price comes down on the nicer video cards?
Also, I'm wondering if this strategy would be prudent towards the
evolving technology of the PCIe video cards.



I went to memtest.org and saw a lot of downloads. Not being certain
which download to select along with the apprehension of downloading
anything to see what it does, I will need a bit of advice before I
attempt this. I guess Prime95 and 3DMark are similar type test.



Again, thanks Paul for your advice.

Davïd

Greenville, NC

Asus has just about ever conceivable technology combination
covered in their product line. So, you can reuse as much or
as little of your existing gear, as you want.

The situation with regard to the marketing of video cards,
is about as poor as it can get. High end products exist in
both camps, that are hard to find, and prices in some cases
are $200 above MSRP. We call that gouging, where I come
from.

If the yield of chips is that poor, then these products are
not ready for market. Period.

The cards are not even carefully labelled in every case, as
to whether they are PCI Express or AGP. You could consult
one of the larger web sites, like newegg.com, and see what
versions of cards are actually available, but for the high
end cards, some of them are only available in ones and twos
from the smaller retailers. This is a horrible environment
to be shopping in, because it is easy to get taken for your
hard earned cash, if you don't spend the time determining
what the best price is.

Will the situation improve ? I think the thing is, video
card design is in every bit as much trouble as processor
design. Will there be higher performance video cards ?
Could be, but how hot will they be. Where video cards
go next, depends on whether 90nm or 65nm chips are going
to allow even faster cards to be constructed.

SLI is a bandaid solution, and with a computer dissipating
300 watts while gaming, is not very practical. Not all games
are accelerated by SLI, which means a single card is still
the most compatible gaming solution.

What would I do in such an environment ? Punt.

Wait a bit, until video card availability improves, to get
a better price. I'd be damned, if I'd waste money on a
cheap video card now, and an expensive one later. That
would be getting gouged twice (as the price on all video
cards is higher than the tech curve). I'd do the upgrade
a bit later this year.

What you can conclude from that, is my personal opinion is
that an AGP video card slot is still the choice _at this
instant_ in time. At the rate that computer design is changing,
it is really not that practical to invest in future
upgradability, so find the solution that solves your
problems now. A P5P800 with AGP slot would allow you to make
one (expensive) AGP video card purchase now, and use it for
a couple years.

Where are we with technology ?

S478 - dead and gone. Buy a 3.4GHz if you don't plan on
upgrading.
S775 - where Intel wants you. Up to 3.8GHz available.
Not dual core ready. So S775 is a dead end. The
writing is on the wall.
S462 - AMD will discontinue this soon.
S754 - AMD will discontinue this maybe this year
S939 - where AMD wants you. Up to 4000+ P.R. rating.
Is the socket dual core ready ? Dunno.
S940 - Oh so dead.
DDR - where the customers want to be. Best price.
DDR2 - where Intel wants you.
FB - fully buffered DIMM standard. the next generation.
Introduction date unknown. The cynic in me says
this could displace DDR2, but who is to say. FB
is like registered RAM, and uses a buffer chip.
AGP - dead and gone. Where the customers want to be, as
you could get a better price.
PCIE - where the industry wants you. Nvidia uses bridge chip,
to convert AGP to PCIE. Which means the bandwidth
of PCIE is not necessary. ATI does theirs with a native
interface, and the only saving is in product cost and
a bit of heat. The power envelope will limit future
performance. Video cards are all about the width of
memory chips on the video card, and number of pipes.
The bus interface is immaterial. Chip supply constrained.
Why ? Either yield, or evil gouging.
BTX - Pointless case design. Irrational motherboard layout.
Where Dell wants to be.

All I can suggest, is buy for today, pick the solution with
the best price, and let tomorrow sort itself. The very reason
these technologies are being introduced, is to prevent you
from having an upgrade path. As a customer, all we can do,
is retaliate by upgrading less often, using the most cost
effective components on the date of purchase.

Memtest86 (memtest.org):

This is a program that formats a blank floppy disk for you.
The disk will end up with a self booting program on it, that
tests all of memory. For computers without floppy drives,
there is also a version suitable for burning an ISO CD. Set
boot order to floppy/CD first, and let the computer boot
with the disk. You can run this test, before even connecting
a hard drive to the motherboard.

Prime95 (mersenne.org):

This program is intended to find prime numbers. As a side
benefit, it also has a test of processing integrity. In other
words, it can detect when the CPU isn't 100%, and it heats up
the processor by running at full speed. Also seems to be
effective at finding speed faults in memory (faults that
memtest86 might have missed). Prime95 runs under an OS, so
you run it after installing an OS on the hard drive.

3DMark (futuremark.com):

Once the processor and memory are known good, you can run this
benchmark. Compare your benchmark, to other comparable
benchmarks, as a test that the drivers and software are
set up properly. On an AGP machine, get a copy of Powerstrip
from Entechtaiwan.com , as a simple way to get a listing of
what capabilities are enabled on your card. (The versions of
3DMark I use, like 3DMark2001SE, have a demo mode, which can
be left running overnight. If the video is stable, it should
be running the next morning. Otherwise, you'll find the computer
crashed or hung.)

************ Bus standards ************

Southbridge ----+----+----+----+----+----+ PCI bus
| | | | | |

Southbridge PCI Express
| | | |
1 2 3 4

The PCI bus is a multidrop parallel bus. The bus is unterminated
and signals ring and bounce off the ends of the bus. A bus
standard tamed by determined engineering and 1000's of hours
of simulation. Typically offers more slots than PCI Express.

PCI Express is private and point to point. One card cannot
interfere with another (except if there isn't enough bandwidth
between North and Southbridge).


Northbridge ----+----+----+ Memory channel(s)
| | | using either DDR/ DDR2

Northbridge FB memory
| | | |

FB memory will be a similar improvement like PCI Express.
Point to point interface, preventing interference between
memory slots. DDR and DDR2 modules can interfere with one
another (which is why there are speed versus number of
memory slot rules, and why overclockers use one module
per memory channel).

Whether bandwidth/latency/cacheing issues can be solved for
FB remains to be seen. Also unclear, with AMD and Intel
taking different architectural paths, is when it will roll
out. An FB DIMM could use DDR or DDR2 chips, as the memory
chips go through a buffer chip. It is like registered memory,
on steroids. And conveniently, makes more of the memory you
own, obsolete.

HTH,
Paul

Dear Paul

I just bought the P5GD2 .
I also bought 2 sata 160GB Maxtor and I have one PATA 250GB Maxtor.
I a also have to connect 2 x DVD/CD drives to the PRI- IDE 1 connector ( I
presume )
How and where to plug the HDDs to the MB .??

Thanks

Roland



"Paul" schreef in bericht
...
In article , "Ðavïd"
wrote:

snip

Thanks again Paul for your valued response. Wow! I dunno where to
start. As for the cash, I do not need the latest and greatest cutting
edge technology as I'm not going to attempt to squeeze every bit of
performance out of it by overclocking. My main reason of asking for
advice from this newsgroup is to hopefully avoid problems that plague
some motherboards and/or new releases.Yes, I want to spend my hard
earned money wisely and get it right the first time. I was
considering a full flavor Pentium 2.8 or 3.0 800FSB processor for
reducing an expendure. Starting out with 512 RAM and doubling it at a
later date. Utilizing the onboard audio saving the expense of a sound
card.



Pretty much everything else is laying around the house for use or
reuse, case, power supply, hard drive, CD writer, monitor, speakers,
cables, keyboard and mouse, except for the PCIe video card. Ouch!
That is where I'll prolly spend more than I intended from the onset.
What I want is at least 256mb. At this point, everything about the
video card is undecided. Heck, I'm not certain if I should go with
ATI or nVIDA. Should I purchase a value priced video card now and
update later when the price comes down on the nicer video cards?
Also, I'm wondering if this strategy would be prudent towards the
evolving technology of the PCIe video cards.



I went to memtest.org and saw a lot of downloads. Not being certain
which download to select along with the apprehension of downloading
anything to see what it does, I will need a bit of advice before I
attempt this. I guess Prime95 and 3DMark are similar type test.



Again, thanks Paul for your advice.

Davïd

Greenville, NC

Asus has just about ever conceivable technology combination
covered in their product line. So, you can reuse as much or
as little of your existing gear, as you want.

The situation with regard to the marketing of video cards,
is about as poor as it can get. High end products exist in
both camps, that are hard to find, and prices in some cases
are $200 above MSRP. We call that gouging, where I come
from.

If the yield of chips is that poor, then these products are
not ready for market. Period.

The cards are not even carefully labelled in every case, as
to whether they are PCI Express or AGP. You could consult
one of the larger web sites, like newegg.com, and see what
versions of cards are actually available, but for the high
end cards, some of them are only available in ones and twos
from the smaller retailers. This is a horrible environment
to be shopping in, because it is easy to get taken for your
hard earned cash, if you don't spend the time determining
what the best price is.

Will the situation improve ? I think the thing is, video
card design is in every bit as much trouble as processor
design. Will there be higher performance video cards ?
Could be, but how hot will they be. Where video cards
go next, depends on whether 90nm or 65nm chips are going
to allow even faster cards to be constructed.

SLI is a bandaid solution, and with a computer dissipating
300 watts while gaming, is not very practical. Not all games
are accelerated by SLI, which means a single card is still
the most compatible gaming solution.

What would I do in such an environment ? Punt.

Wait a bit, until video card availability improves, to get
a better price. I'd be damned, if I'd waste money on a
cheap video card now, and an expensive one later. That
would be getting gouged twice (as the price on all video
cards is higher than the tech curve). I'd do the upgrade
a bit later this year.

What you can conclude from that, is my personal opinion is
that an AGP video card slot is still the choice _at this
instant_ in time. At the rate that computer design is changing,
it is really not that practical to invest in future
upgradability, so find the solution that solves your
problems now. A P5P800 with AGP slot would allow you to make
one (expensive) AGP video card purchase now, and use it for
a couple years.

Where are we with technology ?

S478 - dead and gone. Buy a 3.4GHz if you don't plan on
upgrading.
S775 - where Intel wants you. Up to 3.8GHz available.
Not dual core ready. So S775 is a dead end. The
writing is on the wall.
S462 - AMD will discontinue this soon.
S754 - AMD will discontinue this maybe this year
S939 - where AMD wants you. Up to 4000+ P.R. rating.
Is the socket dual core ready ? Dunno.
S940 - Oh so dead.
DDR - where the customers want to be. Best price.
DDR2 - where Intel wants you.
FB - fully buffered DIMM standard. the next generation.
Introduction date unknown. The cynic in me says
this could displace DDR2, but who is to say. FB
is like registered RAM, and uses a buffer chip.
AGP - dead and gone. Where the customers want to be, as
you could get a better price.
PCIE - where the industry wants you. Nvidia uses bridge chip,
to convert AGP to PCIE. Which means the bandwidth
of PCIE is not necessary. ATI does theirs with a native
interface, and the only saving is in product cost and
a bit of heat. The power envelope will limit future
performance. Video cards are all about the width of
memory chips on the video card, and number of pipes.
The bus interface is immaterial. Chip supply constrained.
Why ? Either yield, or evil gouging.
BTX - Pointless case design. Irrational motherboard layout.
Where Dell wants to be.

All I can suggest, is buy for today, pick the solution with
the best price, and let tomorrow sort itself. The very reason
these technologies are being introduced, is to prevent you
from having an upgrade path. As a customer, all we can do,
is retaliate by upgrading less often, using the most cost
effective components on the date of purchase.

Memtest86 (memtest.org):

This is a program that formats a blank floppy disk for you.
The disk will end up with a self booting program on it, that
tests all of memory. For computers without floppy drives,
there is also a version suitable for burning an ISO CD. Set
boot order to floppy/CD first, and let the computer boot
with the disk. You can run this test, before even connecting
a hard drive to the motherboard.

Prime95 (mersenne.org):

This program is intended to find prime numbers. As a side
benefit, it also has a test of processing integrity. In other
words, it can detect when the CPU isn't 100%, and it heats up
the processor by running at full speed. Also seems to be
effective at finding speed faults in memory (faults that
memtest86 might have missed). Prime95 runs under an OS, so
you run it after installing an OS on the hard drive.

3DMark (futuremark.com):

Once the processor and memory are known good, you can run this
benchmark. Compare your benchmark, to other comparable
benchmarks, as a test that the drivers and software are
set up properly. On an AGP machine, get a copy of Powerstrip
from Entechtaiwan.com , as a simple way to get a listing of
what capabilities are enabled on your card. (The versions of
3DMark I use, like 3DMark2001SE, have a demo mode, which can
be left running overnight. If the video is stable, it should
be running the next morning. Otherwise, you'll find the computer
crashed or hung.)

************ Bus standards ************

Southbridge ----+----+----+----+----+----+ PCI bus
| | | | | |

Southbridge PCI Express
| | | |
1 2 3 4

The PCI bus is a multidrop parallel bus. The bus is unterminated
and signals ring and bounce off the ends of the bus. A bus
standard tamed by determined engineering and 1000's of hours
of simulation. Typically offers more slots than PCI Express.

PCI Express is private and point to point. One card cannot
interfere with another (except if there isn't enough bandwidth
between North and Southbridge).


Northbridge ----+----+----+ Memory channel(s)
| | | using either DDR/ DDR2

Northbridge FB memory
| | | |

FB memory will be a similar improvement like PCI Express.
Point to point interface, preventing interference between
memory slots. DDR and DDR2 modules can interfere with one
another (which is why there are speed versus number of
memory slot rules, and why overclockers use one module
per memory channel).

Whether bandwidth/latency/cacheing issues can be solved for
FB remains to be seen. Also unclear, with AMD and Intel
taking different architectural paths, is when it will roll
out. An FB DIMM could use DDR or DDR2 chips, as the memory
chips go through a buffer chip. It is like registered memory,
on steroids. And conveniently, makes more of the memory you
own, obsolete.

HTH,
Paul