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Old XP pc died?



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 20th 15, 04:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
BugHunter
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Posts: 12
Default Old XP pc died?

VanguardLH schreef op Zo 20 Sep 2015 om 02:20:
BugHunter wrote:

http://global.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?auno=58


You sure that you have the pictured mobo? I find some listed as "Aopen
AX4B-533" that have a vacuum tube on them. Yep, the ancient vacuum
tube. Tubes are still more linear of a larger voltage range than
semiconductors and you can put a ton of current through them. See the
one below with a tube for high-amperage audio output:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/aopentube/

The one you pictured looks more like a bigger pic for the AX4B-*Pro* 533
(notice "Pro" and the space before "533") shown at:

http://www.svethardware.cz/sh/media.nsf/w/5F193D4B1151DBA9C1256C59004DC466/$file/01.jpg

From the specs there, I see nothing that indicates this mobo has onboard
video. It lists an AGP slot but you would need a video daughtercard in
that slot to have video. There is no video connector listed for its I/O
backpanel (where onboard video goes so you can connect a monitor there).
Its specs do not mention a mobo header to bring video to a case-mounted
connector. You don't have onboard video. You have a video card in the
AGP slot.

For there to be onboard video means there would need to be a "GV" after
the chip model number, like "845GV". The specs on the page you gave
says only "845E". See:

http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/ch..._d/Intel/845E/

Note IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor) is No. Since the 845E
northbridge does not have a graphics processor inside, it won't generate
as much heat hence the passive heatsink (no fan).

To what does your monitor connect on the computer?

In the middle you see the heatsink who I talk about. If you zoom in,
you see the iron ropes rightunder and leftabove. They are attached to
the board with a kind of tab, and one is come loose.

It is possible there is an safety system, because the tabs are
soldered, i think.


The spring metal wire is layed against the heatsink and the ends are
bent down to hook into the tangs on the mobo. This provides downward
pressure on the heatsink. Think of taking a spring metal wire and
pressing it down over a finger. You will feel the downward pressure of
the spring wire on your finger. They couldn't have the wire extending
sideways out from the heatsink because there are components on either
side, so they bent the wire and push those ends down.



Right. And the 'tangs' are solderd at the
board.


The ends might be soldered but they could be desoldered (solder sucker
and/or solder wick) to remove the heatsink to apply new thermal paste.



No, yhen spring Metal wires hhok in the
'tangs', so desolder is not required.


It's possible that thermal tape was used instead of paste. Tape will
have a distinctly square shape rather than paste that squeezes around in
an irregular blob. Whether paste or tape, you cannot (should not) reuse
the old paste or tape.

For the heatsink to have popped off, is the spring wire broken? Or did
one end pop out of the mobo tang (which means it was not soldered)?



No, the spring metal wire hooks in a kind
of tabs who are solderd at the board. A
'problem' is I have to demounte the whole
board becouse the solderside is not
reachable now.


Was the computer dropped or was someone inside fiddling around with,
say, the CPU and its heatsink or monkeying around with the AGP video
card in the nearby slot? Other than the spring wire breaking (not
likely since it is not being stressed back and forth to induce metal
fatigue), something had to make the curled ends of the spring wire pop
out of the tangs on the mobo. If the ends are soldered as you claim,
the spring wire would have had to break off an end which also indicates
abuse. If the spring wire's ends are not soldered, it's possible one
end popped out but it's likely with such an old mobo that the end was
just outside the tang (not in the groove) and years later happened to
pop off, so abuse is still indicated.



One of the tangs? or tabs? is loosened. It
looks like not soldered, there is no solder
on it. I have to desmount the board for to
see the solderside of the board. But its a
tough job for me.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.
  #12  
Old September 20th 15, 07:36 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default Old XP pc died?

BugHunter wrote:

One of the tangs? or tabs? is loosened. It
looks like not soldered, there is no solder
on it. I have to desmount the board for to
see the solderside of the board. But its a
tough job for me.


That's because the metal type used in the
fastener, promotes a "cold solder joint".
Anyone who has taken a soldering course
(we had a guy at work with the proper training),
that person would "fail" all of those! Because
they don't have the right solder joint shape,
and evidence of proper metal to metal "wetting".

So right from the start, those motherboards should
not have been "approved" by the staff who do inspections.
None of those solder joints are any good.

*******

Once you select a good metal for the U-shaped
thing that needs to be resoldered, it will work
easier.

I have a cabinet with a wide selection of these.
I would select a resistor that just barely fits
into the motherboard holes. Cut the leg off it,
shape the resulting wire into a U-shape, and install
it into the board. The one second from the left,
looks like it might be a good candidate to donate
one of its legs. I have a lot more of the small
ones on the right, but their legs don't have the
right diameter.

http://www.bcae1.com/images/jpegs/IMG_5660b.jpg

Paul
  #13  
Old September 20th 15, 07:46 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
BugHunter
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Posts: 12
Default Old XP pc died?

Paul schreef op Zo 20 Sep 2015 om 14:36:
BugHunter wrote:

One of the tangs? or tabs? is loosened. It
looks like not soldered, there is no solder
on it. I have to desmount the board for to
see the solderside of the board. But its a
tough job for me.


That's because the metal type used in the
fastener, promotes a "cold solder joint".
Anyone who has taken a soldering course
(we had a guy at work with the proper training),
that person would "fail" all of those! Because
they don't have the right solder joint shape,
and evidence of proper metal to metal "wetting".

So right from the start, those motherboards should
not have been "approved" by the staff who do inspections.
None of those solder joints are any good.

*******

Once you select a good metal for the U-shaped
thing that needs to be resoldered, it will work
easier.

I have a cabinet with a wide selection of these.
I would select a resistor that just barely fits
into the motherboard holes. Cut the leg off it,
shape the resulting wire into a U-shape, and install
it into the board. The one second from the left,
looks like it might be a good candidate to donate
one of its legs. I have a lot more of the small
ones on the right, but their legs don't have the
right diameter.

http://www.bcae1.com/images/jpegs/IMG_5660b.jpg

Paul



A good idea, I have electrical rope enaugh
with massive core. I think it's the right
size. I will also replace the other one.
Now I need to pluck up courage, I have to
work with it on the floor, no space on a
table. Tomorrow score thermal paste and I
can do the job. Thanks for your support.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.
  #14  
Old September 20th 15, 11:44 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 1,453
Default Old XP pc died?

BugHunter wrote:

No, the spring metal wire hooks in a kind of tabs who are solderd at
the board. A 'problem' is I have to demounte the whole board becouse
the solderside is not reachable now.


If the spring wire ends are simply hooked into tangs soldered on the
motherboard, why do you need to unmount the motherboard to get to its
underside? Just unhook the spring wire ends from the tangs.

One of the tangs? or tabs? is loosened. It looks like not soldered,
there is no solder on it. I have to desmount the board for to see the
solderside of the board. But its a tough job for me.


The tangs don't need to be soldered. They may be merely press-fitted
into holes in the mobo or there bases spread apart to keep them in
place. There is no circuity going to the spring wire. It's just a
physical mounting.

Are you claiming the tangs in the mobo won't hold down the ends of the
spring wire? Will the spring wire end pop out of the tang because it is
loose in it mounting in the mobo?

Is the tang loose because of Paul's suggestion of bad choice of solder
(it is probably all the same solder used when the PCB was passed over a
wave soldering machine)? Could also be the pads on the mobo got ripped
off the mobo. You could just add a blob of solder so it is bigger than
the hole in the mobo (but that would require getting at the underside of
the mobo). As long as you cannot pull the tang out of the mobo then the
tang is still usable. Have you tried sliding the end of the spring wire
under or into the tang to see if it holds?
  #15  
Old September 21st 15, 03:15 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default Old XP pc died?

VanguardLH wrote:


The tangs don't need to be soldered. They may be merely press-fitted
into holes in the mobo or there bases spread apart to keep them in
place.


But those are the mistakes. They're not press fit type.
And they're not swaged on the ends either, for
mechanical security. It's just a bad design all round.
I couldn't believe it when I looked at one, and I
observed the metal they were made from. I think I have
an example here somewhere (my P4C800E).

The metal was selected for strength, so the metal
would not bend when holding the bar in place.

If you use a copper leg with tin/lead overcoat, that
gives excellent soldering properties, but the
copper could bend slightly during assembly and
look "unsightly". So instead, they select a metal
which will look optimal over life from a visual
perspective, but on the other hand will promote
the heatsink falling off. What a world we live in...

I expect it is too late to save the OPs motherboard,
and the Northbridge could be dead by now (from the
overheating). There's no THERMTRIP on those as far
as I know. And only those Dell computers with the
electrical continuity check through the bar, were
able to provide protection if the heatsink falls
off. Other brands didn't do that. Someone posted
about a machine that would no longer start, noticed
the Northbridge heatsink had fallen off, and a Google
search showed there was a continuity check on some
machines.

Sometimes, when the heatsink falls off, it shorts
something else out electrically on the motherboard.
So that's another reason (less likely) for a
resulting electrical failure.

Also, another note about the design. The original
design from Intel, used four tangs and two bars.
My P4C800-E has four tangs and two bars. If a single
tang comes loose, the heatsink stays put. That's
mechanical redundancy. But the OPs motherboard
uses two tangs and a single bar, and if a tang
pulls out, the heatsink falls off. So that's another
difference from the proposed Intel solution.

Paul
  #16  
Old September 22nd 15, 03:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
BugHunter
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Posts: 12
Default Old XP pc died?

VanguardLH schreef op Zo 20 Sep 2015 om 17:44:
BugHunter wrote:

No, the spring metal wire hooks in a kind of tabs who are solderd at
the board. A 'problem' is I have to demounte the whole board becouse
the solderside is not reachable now.


If the spring wire ends are simply hooked into tangs soldered on the
motherboard, why do you need to unmount the motherboard to get to its
underside? Just unhook the spring wire ends from the tangs.



Yhere is one tang loose. At a sunny day, or
at a rainy day, I go beginning with it. It
is not my main pc, so I take it easy. The
first thing ill try, is solder the tang in
the board an than use thermal paste for the
sink.


One of the tangs? or tabs? is loosened. It looks like not soldered,
there is no solder on it. I have to desmount the board for to see the
solderside of the board. But its a tough job for me.


The tangs don't need to be soldered. They may be merely press-fitted
into holes in the mobo or there bases spread apart to keep them in
place. There is no circuity going to the spring wire. It's just a
physical mounting.



That should meaning the chip is died. I try
it with solder and will see how it goed.


Are you claiming the tangs in the mobo won't hold down the ends of the
spring wire? Will the spring wire end pop out of the tang because it is
loose in it mounting in the mobo?



Yes.


Is the tang loose because of Paul's suggestion of bad choice of solder
(it is probably all the same solder used when the PCB was passed over a
wave soldering machine)? Could also be the pads on the mobo got ripped
off the mobo. You could just add a blob of solder so it is bigger than
the hole in the mobo (but that would require getting at the underside of
the mobo). As long as you cannot pull the tang out of the mobo then the
tang is still usable. Have you tried sliding the end of the spring wire
under or into the tang to see if it holds?



It is loose, one of the two. If I can mount
it, there is no problem, except the chip is
died. I will see it.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.
 




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