Buying advice?

wrote:
Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other
possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

I rarely advise people on which printer to buy in this forum because it is so
difficult to understand their needs. However I don't know who told you that the
LJ2550 needs a new drum every toner change but that is not correct.
The black cartridge has a life of 5000 pages (at 5% coverage), the colour
cartrdiges come in two sizes 2000 and 4000 pages.
The drum has a life of 20,000 pages (black only) and 5000 pages (colour only),
average drum life is at least 7000 pages if you print a lot of colour otherwise
much higher than that. That is at least 2 sets of colour cartridges and
probably more.
Having said that, this is an old model and there are some newer printers that
have a lower cost per page than this one but it will not be an entry level
laser. As a general rule the more you pay for the printer the lower the cost
per page over the printer's life.
New lasers have excellent colour output, not as good as the very best inkjets
but getting close, they tend to produce a slightly glossy result on plain paper.
You must only use paper that is designed for lasers or you risk serious damage
to the printer.
There are some new inkjets that use high capacity cartridges and that are as
fast as most colour lasers, these are in the mid to high end of the business
inkjet ranges. Most of these are HP printers. Cost per page is comparable to or
less than most laser printers. See the OfficeJet Pro K5400 for an idea. These
have very long life heads that have a warranty period that exceeds the warranty
on the printer.
There is a lot of research to do but I hope this helps in your search.

Tony
MS MVP Printing/Imaging

Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

wrote:
Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

If you are looking for economical operating costs find a Canon printer
that suits you that uses the CLI-8 cartridges and refill them. This
method is by far more economical than a laser printer or buying OEM
cartridges.

wrote:

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

There have been claims both ways. It's difficult to test, and supply
cost can vary a lot between different models. If you find something
with actual evidence, please post a link.

My personal suspicion is that printing color with color lasers is
probably no more expensive than with inkjets, and potentially much
cheaper. Ink can be refilled, but so can toner. Lasers at least don't
dry out if you don't use them for a while.

And of course it depends a lot on what you print. If you print
documents and pictures, a monochrome laser along with getting your
photos printed at the local X-Mart can be the least expensive and most
dependable setup.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

I don't know about that particular model, but all the color lasers I've
used have separate toners (four of them, CMYK) and drum. A single unit
that contains the four colors of toner and the drum would be huge and
expensive.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

Lasers generally have to use mixtures of opaque dot patterns to make
shades. That works well for charts and spot color, but not so well for
photos.

An inkjet can overprint with multiple colors or shades, and the ink will
blend together. For fine shading at high resolution (photos), that's
good.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

The LJ2550 looks like home-use level to me. It's not fast in color (4
PPM), although that might still be faster than the average inkjet.
OTOH, it's pretty cheap right now, and does PCL and PostScript.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

Michael Johnson wrote:
wrote:
Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP
DeskJet. I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink
cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad
color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

If you are looking for economical operating costs find a Canon printer
that suits you that uses the CLI-8 cartridges and
but do not
refill them.
Use only Canon in for in the long run
This method is by far more economical than a laser printer
and make sure that you get genuine
or buying OEM cartridges.

It's interesting, with the different time zones (I guess) your question
appeared after Tony's answer...

Anyway,I have dealt with this question numerous times, so I am going to
repeat an edited version of a previous response I supplied in this
regard below:

A couple of questions come to mind for consideration. Will you be
working with OEM toner cartridges, or refilled/remanufactured
cartridges? The reason I ask is because the availability of 3rd party
remanufactured or commercialized refilled cartridges may vary
considerably with the brand, and the savings can be considerable if you
can refill or buy refilled cartridges.

Some models make it very difficult to refill using chips which self
destruct, etc. If your budget includes buying new cartridges when they
empty, that changes the landscape considerably.

Also, be aware that lower end printer, in particular, often come with
"starter" cartridges which are only partially full, and the replacement
cartridges are usually quite costly, often almost the cost of the
printer. Some printers which cost more *may* come with full cartridges,
at least. The laser printer industry has become a dirty game of cat and
mouse, as the inkjet industry has been, only worse, because the printers
cost more to produce, so they often rely upon that first replacement of
the toner cartridge to make the profit, requiring that those cartridges
cost the price of the whole printer. It is a horrible con game, and it
is getting progressively worse.

I have been following color lasers lately and as one example, HP has a
entrance level printer that in Canada is selling for under $200, but it
comes with half filled toner cartridge. For about $75-$100 more the
next one up has the same cartridges, (only they are full), networking
capability, and a considerably higher duty cycles, making it
considerably cheaper in the loner run. It is really a buyer beware
situation.

Another thing to look into is if the memory the printer uses is standard
type of proprietary. Many low end laser printers come with just enough
memory to print one letter size page. For complex printing, legal size,
or to queue up more than one page to save time, you may need to purchase
extra memory. Most laser printer manufacturers will be happy to sell
you their "own" memory sticks (at about 4 times or more the price you
can buy them for at a computer store) but if the memory is design only
for their product you have no choice. So, ask if the printer can use a
standard memory type for expansion.

Which printer is appropriate for you depends on the number of copies you
plan to print, what kind of coverage your printing involves, and the
speed and quality you require, the type of paper you need to print on
(thickness and quality) and lastly the quality you require. Get samples
from the store or manufacturer.

Lastly, some toners are matte and some are glossy, and some allow for
changing the characteristics by changing the fuser temperature of speed
the paper goes through at, the an type of paper used. If you will be
mainly printing on a glossy or semi-gloss stock, you probably want one
that uses a higher gloss toner, if you mainly print on matte/flat
surface papers then go for a matte surfaced toner. Unlike inkjet
printers, the colorants on laser printer sit on top of the paper surface
and so the toner has it's distinctive quality. White and low density
areas mainly show the paper surface, white dark areas mainly show the
toner surface, and this can look odd when looking at the image on an
angle, where one part may be glossy and the other matte.

You may wish to look at some Konica-Minolta or Samsung models. The
Konica-Minolta models provide excellent output and most use a matte
surfaced toner, which I prefer. However, I have not looked into cost of
consumables. Samsung has a very small color printer out which allows
you to reuse the drum over numerous toner cartridges, so you pay for the
toner and container, rather than a complete toner/drum unit for each
color. Fuji makes some models for Dell, and OKI-data also makes some
interesting models using their LED imaging technology.

Because color laser printers are much more complex than inkjet printers,
but are now selling at similar prices, you really have to do your
homework to figure out which provides the features and price range/value
you need. I suggest speaking to a reputable cartridge refiller, if you
are at all thinking of having your cartridges refilled, before making
your purchase.

This whole industry needs a good kick in the pants, IMHO. At a time
when people and industry is supposed to be lowering their carbon
footprint, we have printer manufacturers producing perfectly good
technology which is cheaper to toss out after the cartridges empty than
to replace the consumables. It is truly unconscionable in this day and
age.


Art


wrote:
Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

JimL

Michael Johnson said:



wrote:
Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

If you are looking for economical operating costs find a Canon printer
that suits you that uses the CLI-8 cartridges and refill them. This
method is by far more economical than a laser printer or buying OEM
cartridges.

This gets immediately into the topic of getting messages of empty carts
and/or the printer screeching to a halt when there is still ink to print
with.

I've been refilling carts for my HP DeskJet 930C. I got it hoping it was
old enough to not have the fake "Out Of Ink" timers, but I think I missed
it on that one. Sometimes by switching cartridges back and forth and back
and forth and leaving the printer umplugged for long periods I can get
refilling to work - sometimes not.

So the question is, what's the "out of ink" deal with Canon and the
CLI-8's? Are they resettable? I had an Epson that was resettable, but
the carts dried out almost over night. There's supposed to be a procedure
for resetting mine, but it doesn't seem to work.

Actually I may have a bad color cart right now. Somewhere at least near
the time I put the last one in I started getting an off register in blue.
If not for that I'd be in no hurry.


JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

Tony said:


I don't know who told you that the
LJ2550 needs a new drum every toner change but that is not correct.

I wouldn't necessarily blame a user for that. There are plenty of
businesses ready and willing to tell you anything they think will make
them a buck. "Hey Buddy, you need to replace the entire guts of your
printer! If you don't the moon will turn purple!" I'm presently dealing
with the amazing spiels to be heard from used car salesmen...

There are some new inkjets that use high capacity cartridges and that are as
fast as most colour lasers, these are in the mid to high end of the business
inkjet ranges. Most of these are HP printers. Cost per page is comparable to or
less than most laser printers. See the OfficeJet Pro K5400 for an idea. These
have very long life heads

This is a very interesting printer and not all that terribly priced
compared to some $400+ printers out there.

But my first question must be, does it demand that you toss out the tanks
when they are still a third full? I'd pay double that if I knew I could
simply top off a tank any time I wanted to. But if I knew it was one of
those rip-offs tied to a fake-it timer that printer manufacturers are so
good at I would not be interested in the least.

Thanks

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.

wrote:
Michael Johnson said:



wrote:
Is this a good place to ask what to buy?

I've used BubbleJets and what all. My current printer is an HP DeskJet.
I'm sick to death of messing around with expensive ink cartridges. I just
saw a printer at Walmart the same price as it's ink cartridge!

Some time back I saw a discussion somewhere about using color laser
printers at home. It was said that even with the high cost of toner you
could come out better than with ink carts.

One recommendation was an HP 2550. But I just read that you have to
replace the drum every time you run out of toner - a proposition that
costs almost as much as a new printer.

Some said color laser was really poor quality (low resolution? bad color?)
so don't bother.

The idea of a low end professional machine sounded good, but I'd like to
hear more.

If you are looking for economical operating costs find a Canon printer
that suits you that uses the CLI-8 cartridges and refill them. This
method is by far more economical than a laser printer or buying OEM
cartridges.

This gets immediately into the topic of getting messages of empty carts
and/or the printer screeching to a halt when there is still ink to print
with.

I've been refilling carts for my HP DeskJet 930C. I got it hoping it was
old enough to not have the fake "Out Of Ink" timers, but I think I missed
it on that one. Sometimes by switching cartridges back and forth and back
and forth and leaving the printer umplugged for long periods I can get
refilling to work - sometimes not.

So the question is, what's the "out of ink" deal with Canon and the
CLI-8's? Are they resettable? I had an Epson that was resettable, but
the carts dried out almost over night. There's supposed to be a procedure
for resetting mine, but it doesn't seem to work.

The Canon printers using the CLI-8 cartridges give you and out of ink
warning but will still let you print. You just lose ink monitoring
through software so you need to manually check the cartridges
occasionally. Others here can probably give more detail about what
exactly happens. You can refill the CLI-8 cartridges for less than $1
each which brings ink costs down to being nearly inconsequential.

Actually I may have a bad color cart right now. Somewhere at least near
the time I put the last one in I started getting an off register in blue.
If not for that I'd be in no hurry.

Warren Block said:

And of course it depends a lot on what you print. If you print
documents and pictures, a monochrome laser along with getting your
photos printed at the local X-Mart can be the least expensive and most
dependable setup.

I have a broad mix of color photos and text documents with relatively
light quantities. But when I need prints I need them now.

Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

Hey, I've been through Rapid several times. Would it be giving away my
age if I said when I was there so were the fly boys?

JimL

--

America always does the right thing, but only after exhausting all other possibilities, Winston
Churchhill.