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  #1  
Old January 24th 15, 10:57 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_36_]
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Posts: 167
Default CPU Install question

I'm doing a new build and installing a new Corsair H-105 cooler over a
new Intel CPU. I have 2 questions.

1. I assume it's okay if the "water tubes" come around over on the RAM
side. When I was was thinking about it the first time, I was thinking I
didn't want to block the output fan in the back of the case (so that
was the way I went). They will be at least an inch over my Corsair
Vengence RAM, but I don't want pre-mature failure (due to the heat
drying out the tubes?)...

2. The Corsair cooler has thermal paste on it, of course. Will cleaning
the CPU with 99% alcohol be proper "prepping" before I attach the cooler?

Thank you for your kind assistance!

Bill
  #2  
Old January 25th 15, 02:16 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default CPU Install question

Bill wrote:
I'm doing a new build and installing a new Corsair H-105 cooler over a
new Intel CPU. I have 2 questions.

1. I assume it's okay if the "water tubes" come around over on the RAM
side. When I was was thinking about it the first time, I was thinking I
didn't want to block the output fan in the back of the case (so that
was the way I went). They will be at least an inch over my Corsair
Vengence RAM, but I don't want pre-mature failure (due to the heat
drying out the tubes?)...

2. The Corsair cooler has thermal paste on it, of course. Will cleaning
the CPU with 99% alcohol be proper "prepping" before I attach the cooler?

Thank you for your kind assistance!

Bill


But the water tubes have cooling fluid moving through them. How
high a surface temperature could the tubes manage, if cooling water
is running inside the tube ? Only if you had an open wood fire,
with intense infrared pouring out, could you punish the outer
surface of the tubes.

The plasticizer used for the tubing does not last forever.
But I don't think a little 35C case air is going to make that
much difference, when the tube has the thermal mass of water behind it.

*******

On the CPU surface properties, you want to clean off any
amount of paste which is hard and uneven, and causes the
new cooler to "wobble" when placed on the surface. Some
Intel phase-change materials are candidates for removal.

If you need more trivia about paste products, they
have instructions here you can examine.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm

The biggest liability on a certain range of years
of Intel processors, is the surface shape of the
processor top. It's convex. This was done for
mechanical stress reasons. The processors where the
lid is soldered to the CPU die with low-temperature
solder, there are extreme stresses involved when the
solder cools. The curved surface of the processor,
has something to do with controlling the stress
(pulling forces) when the solder cools. Now, those
CPUs, the heatsink sits on the center of the CPU,
whereas out on the edge, the thermal paste has to
fill the air gap. It means the edge of the CPU
doesn't conduct heat quite as well (as a thick layer
of paste is a thermal insulator).

By comparison, lamenting over the cleanliness of the
"grooves" in the metal surface, is a secondary effect.
If your paste product was a good one, and it has
"tinted" the metal surface, you could just leave that,
as thermally conductive material now fills the grooves.
So I would not necessarily let my "cleaning fetish"
take over in that case.

The only material I thoroughly remove, is the Intel
phase change stuff. It's hard as a rock. And the solvent
isn't going to make much of a dent on it. If a proper
paste product was used, it's not going to get in the
way of doing a good job.

The danger of using a solvent, is some of the solvent
could get left in the groove. And take the place of
some paste. Even a cleaning rag can leave enough
debris in the grooves, to negate all the work you
spent "cleaning". So the surface conditions
are kinda tricky, if you worry about such things.
When the metal was new and paste-free, that's your
one good chance for an "impurity free tinting" process.

Your priorities:

1) Remove obvious surface imperfections (mountains of
Intel rock-hard phase change material, causing wobbly
fit).
2) As thin a layer of paste as possible, consistent with
displacing air and forming a conduction path. Do not
build an Oreo cookie (the way we did with one of my
engineering projects at work :-) )
3) Work on your "groove" and your "tinting". This is
well down the list. If the original paste was good,
just wipe it clean with wiping action.

Paul
  #3  
Old January 25th 15, 03:21 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default CPU Install question

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 16:57:00 -0500, Bill
wrote:

They will be at least an inch over my Corsair
Vengence RAM, but I don't want pre-mature failure (due to the heat
drying out the tubes?)...

2. The Corsair cooler has thermal paste on it, of course. Will cleaning
the CPU with 99% alcohol be proper "prepping" before I attach the cooler?


The tubes are about "wicking" action - a portion of evaporative fluid
within that, heated, expands wicks upwards to the fins and
subsequently generates a closed circular cooling effect.

You're not going to 'wear out its pipes,' not at least in your
lifetime;- Perhaps by the year 2500, in case you want to leave a note
to any descendant prodigy.

Yeah, clean it with alcohol, that's what I also use. Unless I'm lazy
and dry wipe it with a paper towel. Both the CPU and the cooler. And
don't use those thermal pastes/tapes. I never ever do. They're
poorly regarded by reasonably available products from NewEgg or Amazon
in highend thermal pastes. Arctic Silver, for instance. Got a
"baggie" full of them, tubes accumulated over the years.

Might be OK for a pinch, most operators wouldn't know the difference.
Dropping money into a for real heatsink, for an assembler/builder, and
actively monitoring CPU temps, though, the heat mounting
paste/compound included with a lot of heatsinks, they're a joke.

A better CPU cooler, these days anyway, they're totally overkill and
awesome about adequate cooling. Shame, really, not to seat one
affixed most righteously. Think of it with impunity as the crowning
touch of your masterful competence.
  #4  
Old January 25th 15, 07:41 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_36_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default CPU Install question

Flasherly wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 16:57:00 -0500, Bill
wrote:

They will be at least an inch over my Corsair
Vengence RAM, but I don't want pre-mature failure (due to the heat
drying out the tubes?)...

2. The Corsair cooler has thermal paste on it, of course. Will cleaning
the CPU with 99% alcohol be proper "prepping" before I attach the cooler?

The tubes are about "wicking" action - a portion of evaporative fluid
within that, heated, expands wicks upwards to the fins and
subsequently generates a closed circular cooling effect.

You're not going to 'wear out its pipes,' not at least in your
lifetime;- Perhaps by the year 2500, in case you want to leave a note
to any descendant prodigy.

Yeah, clean it with alcohol, that's what I also use. Unless I'm lazy
and dry wipe it with a paper towel. Both the CPU and the cooler. And
don't use those thermal pastes/tapes. I never ever do. They're
poorly regarded by reasonably available products from NewEgg or Amazon
in highend thermal pastes. Arctic Silver, for instance. Got a
"baggie" full of them, tubes accumulated over the years.

Might be OK for a pinch, most operators wouldn't know the difference.
Dropping money into a for real heatsink, for an assembler/builder, and
actively monitoring CPU temps, though, the heat mounting
paste/compound included with a lot of heatsinks, they're a joke.

A better CPU cooler, these days anyway, they're totally overkill and
awesome about adequate cooling. Shame, really, not to seat one
affixed most righteously. Think of it with impunity as the crowning
touch of your masterful competence.



You and Paul give great answers! I'm glad to learn that the tubes are so
stable!

I couldn't wait. I read somewhere that Corsair wouldn't put bad thermal
paste on their coolers.
I installed the CPU, wiped it with one end of a Q-tip with 99% alcohol,
dried it with the other end, and put the H-105 on.
I like the way the cooler went on compared to the Intel coolers. The
latter have generally aggravated me in the past, trying to get
all 4 of the plastic tips to come through the other side the way they
are supposed to. I didn't even think of taking a good look
at bottom of the new cooler (duh), wish I had. I had previously
noticed, through the plastic bad, that it had compound on it.

I don't claim "masterful competence" (ha, ha, ha!). I spent 15 minutes
figuring out the right way to attach the 3-pin pump connector to the
4-pin CPU_FAN header.
I lined it up with a plastic tab behind 3 of the pins (duh!)--I didn't
do that the first time. It goes on just fine in two different ways! ; )
I hope everything works when I turn it on in a day or two! : )
At least now I'm not "afraid" of installing the cooler. If I have to
redo it, now I'm not skeered!
Alot of worrying always seems to go into the 45 seconds it takes to
secure the CPU into its slot!
--Funny, when you're actually doing it, you don't worry too much. It
is well-rehearsed. I treat the CPU "delicately".

I have a Corsair 650D case. Tomorrow, I'll pull all the wires through
to the back of the case and push them through where they go.

I'll report back after "post time".

Thank you, and cheers!
Bill


  #5  
Old January 25th 15, 05:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default CPU Install question

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 01:41:07 -0500, Bill
wrote:

You and Paul give great answers! I'm glad to learn that the tubes are so
stable!

I couldn't wait. I read somewhere that Corsair wouldn't put bad thermal
paste on their coolers.
I installed the CPU, wiped it with one end of a Q-tip with 99% alcohol,
dried it with the other end, and put the H-105 on.
I like the way the cooler went on compared to the Intel coolers. The
latter have generally aggravated me in the past, trying to get
all 4 of the plastic tips to come through the other side the way they
are supposed to. I didn't even think of taking a good look
at bottom of the new cooler (duh), wish I had. I had previously
noticed, through the plastic bad, that it had compound on it.

I don't claim "masterful competence" (ha, ha, ha!). I spent 15 minutes
figuring out the right way to attach the 3-pin pump connector to the
4-pin CPU_FAN header.
I lined it up with a plastic tab behind 3 of the pins (duh!)--I didn't
do that the first time. It goes on just fine in two different ways! ; )
I hope everything works when I turn it on in a day or two! : )
At least now I'm not "afraid" of installing the cooler. If I have to
redo it, now I'm not skeered!
Alot of worrying always seems to go into the 45 seconds it takes to
secure the CPU into its slot!
--Funny, when you're actually doing it, you don't worry too much. It
is well-rehearsed. I treat the CPU "delicately".

I have a Corsair 650D case. Tomorrow, I'll pull all the wires through
to the back of the case and push them through where they go.

I'll report back after "post time".

Thank you, and cheers!


Right-o. The way or thing about if you're using their mounting paste,
and I could be wrong in that the included compound is 'the good
stuff,' is if in need of a remount at some future point. You won't
obviously have it and you'll have the possibility of some better
aftermarket compounds - thick heavy-metal saturated paste compounds.
Run a torture-type benchmark, or, from your regular programs the most
demanding on the processor. Actively monitor the CPU's temps
(SPEEDFAN or similar/suitable to pull that info from the CPUs
output/thermal diode). Then try find a reported poll/forum of users
and what they're reporting for cooling with your CPU. Doesn't matter
as much what they're using, just skim their temps for comparison to
your conditions. (Wide latitudes for 35/45/65/95/125watt processors
all using heat variously.) If you're not satisfied, though, feel you
should have better - drop a few bob on a heavier known brand, one
well-received. Might be yours is a light silicon based heatsink
compound - or not, might be the benefits of another compound would be
effectively insignificant.

The residual of it all, say, between a CPU running at 57-65C and one
that runs ambient or close - to my thinking - does matter in the long
run. Rated/spec'd much high, of course, might not be a dead CPU
although I believe anomalies can occur, especially, with overclocking
that contribute to a mess, it is, when an OS reaches general
instability (figuring and knowing if its hard/software induced).
  #6  
Old January 25th 15, 09:18 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_36_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default CPU Install question

Flasherly wrote:
snip
The residual of it all, say, between a CPU running at 57-65C and one
that runs ambient or close - to my thinking - does matter in the long
run. Rated/spec'd much high, of course, might not be a dead CPU
although I believe anomalies can occur, especially, with overclocking
that contribute to a mess, it is, when an OS reaches general
instability (figuring and knowing if its hard/software induced).


Thank you! I printed out your (entire) post to remind me of the details.

Bill
  #7  
Old January 25th 15, 11:35 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default CPU Install question

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 15:18:50 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Thank you! I printed out your (entire) post to remind me of the details.


Seat of the pants. Built a lot of 'em, overclocked some, others would
run with a wooden matchbox-sized heatsinks;- guess I like just like my
CPUs on the cooler side these days, even with today's superior case
and CPU heatsink designs. (10 years life expectancy out of a computer
isn't exactly unheard of, least not for me.) Hope your new build
serves you well!
  #8  
Old January 26th 15, 08:48 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_36_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default CPU Install question

Flasherly wrote:
Think of it with impunity as the crowning touch of your masterful
competence.


I didn't think of it that way, but anyone who can get all the wires and
components in the case is at least a little competent, I guess (pat,
pat, pat, lol). I think I'd be finished if I didn't have a case with
a "back" to thread wires through. I learned I liked my 650d case a
little more when I realized I was able to remove half of the 3.5" drive
holders, to improve airflow from the front. There can now be high
winds from the front air-intake through the case out the back and top
(through the radiator), except I'll probably be tempted to try to keep
the fan speed low (I can adjust the fan speed from a 4-fan controller on
the top of the case--new feature to me). I still have the H-105 cooler
fans on CPU_OPT though.

I put the SDD closer to the bottom of the case, in front of the 200 mm
front intake fan, figuring it's cooler the lower you go (since heat
rises). I put the CD/DVD drive about in the middle, just above the level
of the fan, so it would get a draft from all the air coming into the case.

I think you and Paul taught me pretty well here! I posted a little over
6 months ago, and didn't even like the idea of water cpu cooling (after
I realized it was a "closed system" I liked it better). You got me
thinking about temperatures more than usual. My last build was 5 years
ago. Pretty soon the old system can keep working for another family
member (I don't skimp on things like power supplies).

I think I have one more session before the first post. You wouldn't
want to pay me by the hour...

Cheers,
Bill
  #9  
Old January 27th 15, 11:37 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_36_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default CPU Install question

Bill wrote:

I think I have one more session before the first post. You wouldn't
want to pay me by the hour...


Paul and Flasherly,

The first post was *completely* uneventful!!! Very quiet... not even an
error code. Then after taking a short break, I re-inserted the 24 pin
connector, even flexed the MB a little, and heard a click, and after
that things went much better.

I selected the "optimized defaults". Windows7 loaded in 15 or 20
minutes. I'm running the 4790K CPU at 4.0 GHz (no XMP features yet), and
the cores temps are 29-31 C at idle.
On one of the first BIOS screens, there's a place where they list the
CPU temp as 22C (I'm not sure where that number comes from).

I don't have much software installed yet so, besides the install, I
haven't given the system a good test yet. I haven't even got it on the
Internet. The "Windows Experience" numbers are mostly 7.9. 7.8 for
Graphics, since I have a very modest, but quiet, GPU (GX750TI, Strix).
Far superior to the GPU (HD-4400?) in the CPU however. The first time I
ran Windows Experience, I realized my video card wasn't being used.
Another story, sort of funny--when I was finished "assembling my
computer" and was admiring my handiwork, I realized I had forgotten to
put the video card in. Fortunately I had left room.

So far, the new system is hooked up to an older monitor and keyboard and
I'm toting my one USB mouse from one computer to another. I have to do
all of the stuff you do when you change computers, then I'll be good to
go! By the way, I usually use the SANDRA program for performance
comparisons, but I don't get too caught up in making comparisons. I just
like to verify I'm getting the performance I'm supposed to be getting.

Cheers, and thank you for your support!
Bill
  #10  
Old January 27th 15, 12:16 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default CPU Install question

Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

I think I have one more session before the first post. You wouldn't
want to pay me by the hour...


Paul and Flasherly,

The first post was *completely* uneventful!!! Very quiet... not even an
error code. Then after taking a short break, I re-inserted the 24 pin
connector, even flexed the MB a little, and heard a click, and after
that things went much better.

I selected the "optimized defaults". Windows7 loaded in 15 or 20
minutes. I'm running the 4790K CPU at 4.0 GHz (no XMP features yet), and
the cores temps are 29-31 C at idle.
On one of the first BIOS screens, there's a place where they list the
CPU temp as 22C (I'm not sure where that number comes from).

I don't have much software installed yet so, besides the install, I
haven't given the system a good test yet. I haven't even got it on the
Internet. The "Windows Experience" numbers are mostly 7.9. 7.8 for
Graphics, since I have a very modest, but quiet, GPU (GX750TI, Strix).
Far superior to the GPU (HD-4400?) in the CPU however. The first time I
ran Windows Experience, I realized my video card wasn't being used.
Another story, sort of funny--when I was finished "assembling my
computer" and was admiring my handiwork, I realized I had forgotten to
put the video card in. Fortunately I had left room.

So far, the new system is hooked up to an older monitor and keyboard and
I'm toting my one USB mouse from one computer to another. I have to do
all of the stuff you do when you change computers, then I'll be good to
go! By the way, I usually use the SANDRA program for performance
comparisons, but I don't get too caught up in making comparisons. I just
like to verify I'm getting the performance I'm supposed to be getting.

Cheers, and thank you for your support!
Bill


Let's hope that click was the latch on the
24 pin connector, mating and closing with the
motherboard portion.

With the different colors in this example, you
can see the latch on the black piece, hanging
down where the matching section on the beige
motherboard connector should be. To release it,
you need to press the top of the lever, so the
bottom portion moves away from the surface of
the other connector body. Then you can pull up
on the connector and harness. They use latches,
because without a latch, thermal expansion would
gradually cause the connector to be ejected from
its mate.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon.../main24pin.jpg

It's especially difficult some times, to get the
ATX 2x2 or 2x4 to release, as there is no finger
room in that area.

It's almost as difficult as actuating the heel release
on the video card, so the video card can come out of
its slot. On some motherboards, that heel thing is a
pure bitch (examine it carefully while the motherboard
is out of the computer case, because it's pretty hard
to observe it later). It can be either a spring or a
slide piece. The slide piece type, isn't nearly as bad
to work with.

You can give your cooling a workout with something
like Prime95 torture test option (mersenne.org/freesoft).
For single threaded benches, some people like SuperPI.
Selecting enough digits so the whole calculation does not
fit in the processor cache. The 32 million digit calc
is used on some of the high end processors, because
they have such a large cache to work with. In the past
when I did builds, I'd take ratios of SuperPI times
in seconds, to see what my money bought me. But this
time I didn't bother, because clock rates just aren't
climbing all that much any more. What I got on my
new build, was a lot more cores. So that programs
like 7ZIP (parallel execution) go faster. I've seen
as much as a 7X speedup on 7ZIP (which, unlike some
compressors, doesn't "speed up" that much when it
hits easy stuff).

Paul
 




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