Novell Desktop Linux 10: getting closer to a toss up between Linux & Windows?

"Tony Hill" wrote in message
...
Seriously, beyond 3 years old PCs start becoming VERY expensive to
support. Either you need to buy extended warranties and/or
contracts
from the vendor or you need to source the parts yourself (almost
never
practical) or cannibalize PCs to keep them up and running. The
latter
option can very quickly be ruled out because it increases the cost
for
the most expensive resources a companies IT department can have, and
that is IT people themselves. Extended warranties/contracts from
the
vendor are an option for up to about 5 years, but they quickly get
expensive.

Tony, if we ignore the display, a good corporate computer can be had
these days for no more than $600. That's in 2006 US$. At $200 a
year, that's a disposable item.

The display is disposable too, when it fails. You plug in a new one
and in five minutes you've got a good display for a few more years.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:15:16 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 04 Feb 2006 01:27:01 -0500) it happened Tony Hill
wrote in
:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:08:17 GMT, Me Myname wrote:

On a sunny day (1 Feb 2006 14:41:31 -0800) it happened "YKhan"
wrote in
ups.com:

I'm still not convinced by Linux on the desktop yet, but this seems
like it might be getting closer. It's probably pretty important that
people move out of Windows before Vista arrives and they get stuck.

Yousuf Khan

Novell Shows Off Linux Desktop 10 - Yahoo! News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2006...pcworld/124571

Well.. I had it installed, (10.0) then tried to upgrade to 10.1 beta
that asked me for things, it deleted most stuff.
No I have installed grml linux from grlm.org.
It needs a lot of work, is debian based, and I replaced the X.org with Xfree,
ported most stuff now..
My view is (and has always been) that 'imitating MS windows' is like
aping a fool.
WHY would you want to make a topweight huge slow GUI while a command
line can actually understand what your write (nice for voice recognition too).
I am not recommending grml for office work :-) it is a sys adm tool (well
was, it is my desktop I am running now).
KDE and gnome are big and heavy.. I use fvwm now (the original).
And have 8 xterms, xfm and a decent pager in X.

The simple counter-argument to this is why bother worrying about
computing resources? Computers are DIRT-CHEAP to buy, people are
expensive. If a command line can allow you to work faster, great, all
the better. But arguing that KDE and Gnome are big and heavy is just
a reason to get rid of out-dated computers which generally cost
companies more in maintenance then buying new computers.

Seriously, beyond 3 years old PCs start becoming VERY expensive to
support. Either you need to buy extended warranties and/or contracts
from the vendor or you need to source the parts yourself (almost never
practical) or cannibalize PCs to keep them up and running. The latter
option can very quickly be ruled out because it increases the cost for
the most expensive resources a companies IT department can have, and
that is IT people themselves. Extended warranties/contracts from the
vendor are an option for up to about 5 years, but they quickly get
expensive.

So what is a 3-year old computer? For most companies that would be a
Pentium4 2.4GHz processor, 512MB of memory and a 40GB hard drive. If
this is your "low-end" system, you usually don't have to worry too
much about KDE or Gnome bogging things down. I run KDE on a similar
setup and it's pretty darn speedy.

All good and well, and those arguments make sense about old PCs, but that
is not the issue.

Imagine a screwdriver, JUST A BLOODY SCREWDRIVER.

If that's the best analogy you can come up with, uh, it's a loser. I have
a perfectly good screwdriver that's over forty years old. I certainly
don't have a computer anywhere near that age; perhaps 1/8 that.

You need one, but now all you can buy is an electric battery powered 5
gear ultra high torque hyperspeed huge monster. Sure, there are
applications for that, but many more for the simple screwdriver.

Since I've gone electric I rarely use manual screwdrivers for much mroe
than opening paint cans. My 12YO 12V Makita driver-drill is about at the
end of its batteries (it's been more or less replaced by a 14.4V Porter
Cable), but it still works. Batteries are too expensive so I bought a new
driver. If there is a similarity to computers, this is it. As Tony
has pointerd out, parts are too expensive.

Funniest thing, my (new) neighbour (well the one who bough the house
just a bit around the corner... he had one of those pneumatic hammers...

Yep, I have three and will likely buy at least two more this year.

I went to look what all the noise was about... his walls (most of it
anyways) he had torn down with it.....

Umm, you're supposed to build things with them. ;-)

And I wondered and I wondered....
???? So, yesterday he was placing a big mobilhome in his garden... asked
him... 'Yes it got a bit out of hand'. So people like that should not be
allowed access to power tools... just a hammer would be bad enough....

So the point of your diatribe against GUIs is that some people shouldn't
be allowed to use computers? That is, if one uses a GUI one shouldn't be
*allowed* to own a computers?

LOL. Makes you cry no? So how does this relate? Well, I compiled the new
QT-4 2 days ago (You know that is what KDE (and open suse) is build on.
It took several hours on a Duron 950, just for me to find out that is
totally different (making a new system) and incompatible with everything
(other older Qt applications) like for example the kernel xfonfig. Just
got 2.6.15.2 running now...... (menuconfig). So all that new QT gives
(check the demos) is some playing with graphics..... layout... Not worth
the *****B*L*O*A*T*****

So why did you do it if it hurt so much. Are you a masochist? Or are you
trying to look somehow superrior?

See, you claim about cost of PC maintenance contracts..... you seem to
need P4 3.2 GHz dual core for email... Sure most offices do NOT run
video editing suites like I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you are trying to look superior. Figures.

All Suse desktop does is ape Billy's windows. If you want to start an
application you have to work through menus. If you want to INSTALL
something (from DVD) you have a select 'Yast' that takes ages to 'update
and read database'.

Nice, eh?

Take a simple xterm, one virtual screen in fvwm. You want to save money
in your office? See, there are a thousand or more ( bash I hit tab 2
times)

Save money? By using ancient hardware? I don't think so!

Display all 6696 possibilities? (y or n) ) programs -or commands I'd
rather say- already on this NEW system (now up 3 days), if you want
'something' to run, you type in an rxvt: something It is not even in the
menus.
Suse-7.2 was good.. 9.3 was already annoying (I had to support my soft
on it), Novel now created a monster with 10.X. Like a child with a water
head.
Some people need the screwdriver.

If it hurts, stop doing it.

And Novell Suse will get much worse with QT4 and KDE you will need a
quad core Opteron 10 GHz soon.

A bit of hyperbole, no?

To do what ???????????
To do what I do right now on a Duron 950.

You didn't read what Tony wrote, did you?

So again, with the 100$ laptop coming, it should run Xfree and fvwm and
will likely outperform much.

The $100 laptop will get here when there is a government somewhere willing
to subsidize the other $400.

When I go to the shop I can STILL get a simple screwdriver.

Sure, they're really good at opening paint cans too.

PC Industry got it all wrong.... That 100$ laptop will give it the shakes when i t
shows the emperor without clothes.

BS. That $100 laptop (that really cost $600) will still be powerful
enough to make the GUI just responsive as a command line. You were
simply born fifty years too late.


Some facts:
This system is up 24/7 now since august 2000. With the same Seagate
hardddisks (Tyan mobo). ZERO problems, and it is on a vibrating wooden
floor (people walk on that floor). It has been exposed to anything
between 2 C and 39 C.

Whoopie! You do know that the plural of anecdote isn't data, right? BTW,
my K6-III is still running fine too. I've never had a hard disk die
either (even the DeskStar 75GXP in the K6-III is still a happy camper),
but I don't extrapolate that "data" to the general case.

I added a new Seagate disk some month ago, it is now past 'burn in' so
it seems to work reliably too. So now I am making a new sytem on this
disk, and switching to it (have switched) as I expect hda to reach end
of design time one of these days, and then will just replace it (all is
backup'd). (I can run any other - there are several- version of Linux on
several partitions on qemu any time from within Linux). I still have
some partitions where I could try the next Suse-10.X NON BETA.... But if
this system is up and running 100% (install freetype gtk pango atk cairo
from source to get gtk working... etc etc.. some work), we have
PANTELTJE Linux here!!!

yawn

So, as to PC lifetime, yes Billy the Gates has you buy a new OS and new
apps every few years...

Ah, the hardware is perfect. Never fails. That's good to know.

But really the spreadsheet does the same... since the 80ties.. video
came, but you want to keep the girls in the office typing no? ;-) high
speed sex animation websites and 'BOSS" button? huh? LOL

What?! "Girls in the office typing"? What drugs *are* you on?
Secretaries are so '70s.

Yes we NEED H264 in the office TODAY to be more productive. Not even for
the company server, no.

Ah, so that's why IBM only has a revenue of $100B/yr. Businesses don't
need new/fast/reliable servers. I'm glad you cleared that up! [good thing
I own no IBM stock]

Screwdriver, software is a TOOL to do a JOB and i ahev always written it
for just that purpose. And for the fun of it too, and it is no fun with
a 4 hour compile QT. It makes no sense, waite of resoruces, can be done
better, different.

That's why you spend $400 on a newer/faster system. ...or don't.

But thse companies (started with RatHead libc compatibility prpblems
DELIBERATLY make things so they have MARKET PROTECTION. For that reason
you see more and more simple Linux distors by people who just want
performance, a custom system,. no bloat. grml.org is one for example.
These will win in the end, the bloatware will go Billy's way.. natural
forces will clean this out.

You need to polish your aluminum foil.

Power consumption too.
What you electricity bill for runing 20 P4 3.2 GHz in the office + 3
high performance servers each year? When it can be done with 10 cheaper
machines (all of it)? Substract difference and when the bean counters
get the idea things will become more real.

Even the electricity needed to run a P4 3.2GHz processor (who in their
right mind would go there?) is insignificant compared to the time an
employee takes a washroom break. ...or do you want to ban flush toilets
too?

--
Keith

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:34:06 +0000, Felger Carbon wrote:

"Tony Hill" wrote in message
...
Seriously, beyond 3 years old PCs start becoming VERY expensive to
support. Either you need to buy extended warranties and/or
contracts
from the vendor or you need to source the parts yourself (almost
never
practical) or cannibalize PCs to keep them up and running. The
latter
option can very quickly be ruled out because it increases the cost
for
the most expensive resources a companies IT department can have, and
that is IT people themselves. Extended warranties/contracts from
the
vendor are an option for up to about 5 years, but they quickly get
expensive.

Tony, if we ignore the display, a good corporate computer can be had
these days for no more than $600. That's in 2006 US$. At $200 a
year, that's a disposable item.

Agreed, but the tax man has other ideas (they're still capital items). By
the time it's failed you've wasted more money than the thing is worth.
Replace them *before* failure (helps with data integrity too). I was
recently "forced" to give up my 5YO A21p, but did manage to hold out for a
T42p. Our nominal laptop replacement cycle is 4 years (I told them to go
away for a year).

The display is disposable too, when it fails. You plug in a new one
and in five minutes you've got a good display for a few more years.

Sure, but waiting for the new one is expensive (unproductive). Many
corporations even replace lightbulbs on a schedule. It's cheaper than
waiting for them to fail and doing it onsey-twosy.

--
Keith

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:47:43 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:24:58 -0500) it happened Keith
wrote in :


It seems SuSE thinks playing DVDs is immoral.
No you just type this in an xterm:
mplayer dvd://[title]

Command not found.

Do not use the f*cking GUI.

Stick your holly-than-thou. The fscking GUI works and it's not much of
a burden on an Opteron.

--
Keith

Keith wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:47:43 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:24:58 -0500) it happened Keith
wrote in :


It seems SuSE thinks playing DVDs is immoral.
No you just type this in an xterm:
mplayer dvd://[title]

Command not found.

Do not use the f*cking GUI.

Stick your holly-than-thou. The fscking GUI works and it's not much of
a burden on an Opteron.

--
Keith

What else are we going to use the second core on all those dual core
systems if it was not for the GUI.

Getting back to what Tony, and others have said, the other day I was
reading on RootPrompt a story about the life of a Unix IT person. In it
it describes the thinking of some coporations. I really thought it was
insightful, and shows just how much waste some companies are going for.


Wasn't it a few years ago that Nvidia was hyping their Nforce2 systems
as a good source for businesses? They showed how an image of the hard
drive could be installed on a system after a hardware failure. All this
was to reduce the cost of support, it would seem that the role of IT
staff has changed. No wonder a lot of companies are out sourcing
support, as these dudes won't do the job of their forebearers. Someone
needs to do a TCO study of the IT staff who have these contracts
compared to those who do not. I guess one could always subcontract all
the work to IBM, or some other big company.

I do find it strange that the Microsoft is now trying to get more Unix
like in their server products. How they have decided to invest so much
in the cmd line tools for those products. What we have here is a
conundrum, Gnu/linux is getting more Windows like, while Windows is
getting more Gnu/Linux like!

Then heaven forbid you have to factor in the Apple factor, and their
human interactivity studies. I do think that education is a factor,
lets face it so many people are use to how Windows works, with the
start menu, and placement of menu's that changing to a new system is
hard for them. Some people get upset at the placement of their icon's,
just take the Windows XP vs, classic look. Some people hate it, and
only use one or the other.

One thing is for sure I see that DRM will play a big part in the next
few years. I think that Gnu/Linux will be a big winner on this front.
If its easier for people to work on files and permission's with
Gnu/Linux then Vista, then it could be a good thing for Open Source.

Gnu_Raiz

"Keith" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:34:06 +0000, Felger Carbon wrote:

The display is disposable too, when it fails. You plug in a new
one
and in five minutes you've got a good display for a few more
years.

Sure, but waiting for the new one is expensive (unproductive). Many
corporations even replace lightbulbs on a schedule. It's cheaper
than
waiting for them to fail and doing it onsey-twosy.

What do you mean, _wait_ for the new one? When the light bulb burns
out, does your corporation place a purchase order or does it get a new
one from stock? ;-)

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:41:27 +0000, Felger Carbon wrote:

"Keith" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:34:06 +0000, Felger Carbon wrote:

The display is disposable too, when it fails. You plug in a new
one
and in five minutes you've got a good display for a few more
years.

Sure, but waiting for the new one is expensive (unproductive). Many
corporations even replace lightbulbs on a schedule. It's cheaper
than
waiting for them to fail and doing it onsey-twosy.

What do you mean, _wait_ for the new one? When the light bulb burns
out, does your corporation place a purchase order or does it get a new
one from stock? ;-)

Pretty much. I gotta fill out an eForm (in the dark) and wait for a
contractor to be dispatched from who_knows.where to come turn on my
lights. In those hours-days I'm without light. If this dim-bulb were my
computer it would be costing them somwhere upwards of a grand/day while I
sat there in my eDarkness. Even my cheap-ass employer realizes this isn't
a good thing.

--
Keith

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:13:24 -0800, Gnu.Raiz wrote:


Keith wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:47:43 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:24:58 -0500) it happened Keith
wrote in :


It seems SuSE thinks playing DVDs is immoral.
No you just type this in an xterm:
mplayer dvd://[title]

Command not found.

Do not use the f*cking GUI.

Stick your holly-than-thou. The fscking GUI works and it's not much of
a burden on an Opteron.

--
Keith

What else are we going to use the second core on all those dual core
systems if it was not for the GUI.

Good point. I'd rather have a second machine (I did for years) to do the
real work. In a way I still do. The real works gets sent off to
cycle-servers, somewhere.

Getting back to what Tony, and others have said, the other day I was
reading on RootPrompt a story about the life of a Unix IT person. In it
it describes the thinking of some coporations. I really thought it was
insightful, and shows just how much waste some companies are going for.

Explain. Much of what you might think of as "waste" isnt'. As Tony
pointed out, there isn't much of anythign more expensive tham people. It
doesn't take much productivity to justify several kilobux worth of
hardware, particularly when it's amortized over a few years. Lynn
Wheeler, over on .folklore, tells about justifyin 3277 terminals for IBM
engineers in the '70s. His study showed that it cost about the same as
the phone on the desk when all was said and done. Funny, we had to share
phones then, but had our own 3277s with Tektronix graphics attachments. ;-)

Wasn't it a few years ago that Nvidia was hyping their Nforce2 systems
as a good source for businesses? They showed how an image of the hard
drive could be installed on a system after a hardware failure. All this
was to reduce the cost of support, it would seem that the role of IT
staff has changed. No wonder a lot of companies are out sourcing
support, as these dudes won't do the job of their forebearers. Someone
needs to do a TCO study of the IT staff who have these contracts
compared to those who do not. I guess one could always subcontract all
the work to IBM, or some other big company.

Companies do *not* want to do a real TCO study. They d/won't like the
answer.

I do find it strange that the Microsoft is now trying to get more Unix
like in their server products. How they have decided to invest so much
in the cmd line tools for those products. What we have here is a
conundrum, Gnu/linux is getting more Windows like, while Windows is
getting more Gnu/Linux like!

Market, m'boy, market. Unlike Jan, I have no interest in learning the
guts of the command line for every little thing I might do once or twice
in a month. I want the GUI aids there (my job isn't managing my system).
If Linix does 80% of what I want, good enough. I have an old relic to do
the other 20%.

Then heaven forbid you have to factor in the Apple factor, and their
human interactivity studies. I do think that education is a factor, lets
face it so many people are use to how Windows works, with the start
menu, and placement of menu's that changing to a new system is hard for
them. Some people get upset at the placement of their icon's, just take
the Windows XP vs, classic look. Some people hate it, and only use one
or the other.

Apple has lost some of its attttraction for me recently. ;-) Seriously,
they have a good niche. One that Linux could expand upon. Hardware is
still the problem (Apple limits this problem by limiting hardware).

One thing is for sure I see that DRM will play a big part in the next
few years. I think that Gnu/Linux will be a big winner on this front. If
its easier for people to work on files and permission's with Gnu/Linux
then Vista, then it could be a good thing for Open Source.

I agree it's a huge problem, one that mighteven sink the PC market, IMO.
OTOH, I don't see how Linux is going to get around this, unless you're
talking about rogues "stealing" content (I do consider "sharing" to be
*stealing*, but not viewing what *I* have paid for).

--
Keith

On a sunny day (Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:42:04 -0500) it happened Keith
wrote in :

Imagine a screwdriver, JUST A BLOODY SCREWDRIVER.

If that's the best analogy you can come up with, uh, it's a loser. I have
a perfectly good screwdriver that's over forty years old. I certainly
don't have a computer anywhere near that age; perhaps 1/8 that.
mm so, i have read your usual critism of WORLD and will as I please
air some of my own.
So 40 year old, no money to buy a nice new one?

Since I've gone electric I rarely use manual screwdrivers for much mroe
than opening paint cans.
But you do not do electronics obviously, or ever tried to fix a watch..
You know these nice instrument screwdrivers....



My 12YO 12V Makita driver-drill is about at the
end of its batteries (it's been more or less replaced by a 14.4V Porter
Cable), but it still works. Batteries are too expensive so I bought a new
driver.
Bus driver?????

If there is a similarity to computers, this is it.
Nope, wrong again....
Screwdrivers are long and thin, computers are big boxes.

As Tony
has pointerd out, parts are too expensive.
Depends, floppy drive is 10$, DVD drive 50$ or so here....., monitor 250$,
keyboard 10$, mouse free with a box of chocolates.... ;-)


Funniest thing, my (new) neighbour (well the one who bough the house
just a bit around the corner... he had one of those pneumatic hammers...

Yep, I have three and will likely buy at least two more this year.

You want ??YOU?? want to look superior, not me, problem with you Keith
is that you are a little screamer with too much money and opinion and too
little knowledge where it counts.
We all already figured that out from your previous replies.
Have you ever written an OS Keith, no you have not.
How many applications do you have out there for Linux as GPL Keith?
Howe many of those did you have to do user support for for let's just say
BSD Linux Suse, redhat, Debian Mandrake and quite a few other Keith?

I'd say come and talk again when you have.
As to you using 'a' PC that needs 64 bit ?? to do some job faster, sure,
there are (for example technical) cases (for example running a FPGA
syntesize) where that would be nice.
Specially when you are really bad at it and need to do it 30 times to
get it right.
But that is NOT the normal 'office' job.

So the point of your diatribe against GUIs is that some people shouldn't
be allowed to use computers? That is, if one uses a GUI one shouldn't be
*allowed* to own a computers?

Last time I delivered a 'turn key' system (running Linux) I spend 2 days
instructing the users... Had one phone call and one telnet session to
remotely fix a problem....

Yes there is a GUI, but all they use it for is scripted, with menus,
applications written with xforms, small fast and GPL.
No overhead.
And to explain how to use fvwm with 8 xterms took an hour.
And solved ........ help desk calls....

You need to learn people to do the right thing.
You should NOT addict people to the wrong thing, then they are always
depending on YOU.
And this is what I mend by 'customer binding, 'market protection'.

LEARN people the basics of Unix, and they can fly.
Learn them how to click on a GUI and they STILL have no clue after 15 years
what they are actually doing or what a computer or processor is.

To teach them Unix is not a really big job, it is in essence simple.

But those who build sand castles on it, and teach people sand castles -those
should know- when the sea comes in, all will be of the past.

I personally believe in the sanity of people as far as they have not been
misinformed by others...the GUI has become a religion... for them.

I hope you can see that when you have 6000 commands that it makes no sense
to have an icon on the desktop for each one, or have a pulldown memory
structure to access these n a normal size normal resolution screen.

GUI is nice for some stuff, but think, our language has thousands of words.
Most of the time you know what you want 'pizza, cola, car, house, yes
even electric screwdriver, sex, money, etc etc,' so let's make a menu.
Now we want a submenu for pizza pepperoni, fungi, salami etc...

I hope you with your superior intellect can see that it is so much simpler
to USE THE LANGUAGE WE ALREADY HAVE (caps are free on my PC BTW) and say:
pizza mozzarella.
And here it pops up.
Of course that expect you to have leaned reading and writing, know pizza
types... and thus probably excludes large parts of the world, but those
would not be using the PC anyways but chasing rabbits in the wild... so
for the rest it is faster then a GUI -either via icons or menus-.

(check the demos) is some playing with graphics..... layout... Not worth
the *****B*L*O*A*T*****

So why did you do it if it hurt so much. Are you a masochist? Or are you
trying to look somehow superior?

I wanted to run xmenuconfig to compile the new kernel, it told me it could
not find Qt, so I downloaded the latest, compiled it and found xmenuconfig
now is broken as it only supports the older Qt 3.something.
This is the way we learn.
I also ran the Qt demos to see what sort of new thing all this bloat added,
and nothing NOTHING referring to the above new.. and imagemagick does all
that too I think.

See, you claim about cost of PC maintenance contracts..... you seem to
need P4 3.2 GHz dual core for email... Sure most offices do NOT run
video editing suites like I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you are trying to look superior. Figures.

I can point out that I was doing special effects on a K6 in video when
it simply was not available anywhere else in Linux, so yes some code was
written by me. Where is yours? I am just stating facts.

Save money? By using ancient hardware? I don't think so!
Since when is GUI or xterm hardware related? get a clue.

Some people need the screwdriver.

If it hurts, stop doing it.

And Novell Suse will get much worse with QT4 and KDE you will need a
quad core Opteron 10 GHz soon.

A bit of hyperbole, no?

Nope, exactly the way it is.
Soft and hardware industry support each other .. aided by a large legion of
'have no clue' sales people who will sell you that octal core hyperon for
email.

So again, with the 100$ laptop coming, it should run Xfree and fvwm and
will likely outperform much.

The $100 laptop will get here when there is a government somewhere willing
to subsidize the other $400.

It will not be made in the US but looks like Taiwan now.
They will make profit at 100$

Keith
As agreed earlier Keith is a special case.
We will never agree on anything likely, probably even on the fact that we
will never agree.
How can one disagree with that?
Keith will tell us ;-)

On a sunny day (Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:56:54 -0500) it happened Keith
wrote in :

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:47:43 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:24:58 -0500) it happened Keith
wrote in :


It seems SuSE thinks playing DVDs is immoral.
No you just type this in an xterm:
mplayer dvd://[title]

Command not found.
So no mplayer in suse-10.X???
I have it removed now, but the disk still here....
If it was true (did you install it with all addons?) then it just PROVES suse-10 is a monster,
even the most basic grml ( www.grml.org ) comes with the latest mplayer, and that is only one *CD* image,
not 6 CD like suse.
So maybe you need to upgrade Keith ;-)??