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#11
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
Paul wrote:
Bill wrote: Flasherly wrote: And I'd need the real experience of running both PCIe Gen3x2 M.2 against SATA SSD for an impression of applicable benefits. Since you brought it up, and since I am curious.Â* I would like to ask if there a difference between running these 2 technologies? My MB has the capability of running both (I am using SSD Sata 6.0).Â*Â* I don't process video, play games, or do anything else that involves a very large number of GB all at once.Â* I just enjoy a responsive system. Bill Let's take an example. If I run a Macrium backup, if the storage is infinitely fast, the backup still only runs at 200-250MB/sec. Why is that ? The software computes a checksum while it is backing up, and that is the rate limiting step. I have little MD5 and SHA1 programs here of my own, and the speed ranges between 100MB/sec and 300MB/sec. And these are far from optimal programs. Now, given these speeds for some existing tasks, how much difference would a 600MB/sec or a 2400MB/sec storage device make. The answer is... none. Paul, Thank you for your detailed explanation. I got the point! Maybe some details besides speed will emerge about these two technologies. I've learned about the 4 or so types of "cell technology", single, double, octal, etc.--though I may be abusing their appropriate names in favor of how I think about them. Bill |
#12
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
Bill wrote:
Paul, Thank you for your detailed explanation. I got the point! Maybe some details besides speed will emerge about these two technologies. I've learned about the 4 or so types of "cell technology", single, double, octal, etc.--though I may be abusing their appropriate names in favor of how I think about them. Bill Your computer is only as good as the weakest link. The seek time of your two device types is low, and much lower than a HDD. Either drive type would solve the seek time problem. The most visible improvement is at boot time. Some other things, you might forget you got an SSD. One other thing I noticed, is how much faster a 32 bit OS boots (because it supports less RAM). After the pudgy boot times on all the 64 bit OSes here, I was kinda shocked about how fast the first boot of the 32 bit system was. It got slower later in the day, after I added some stuff in and it did some updates. But at least what that showed me, is the amount of RAM when I boot 64 bit, is having an impact on how long I have to wait. SSD or no SSD. Paul |
#13
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:43:40 -0500, Bill wrote:
Since you brought it up, and since I am curious. I would like to ask if there a difference between running these 2 technologies? My MB has the capability of running both (I am using SSD Sata 6.0). I don't process video, play games, or do anything else that involves a very large number of GB all at once. I just enjoy a responsive system. Given that resource on your MB, I'd definitely check into it. I've seen slotted-NAND SSDs no less viciously cut for pricing as any SATA SSD variant. If you therefore derive any significant benefit in transfers, say, x2-3 times faster than SATA, then the matter becomes a sub-$20 question begging for, at the very least, an immediate 128G solution. |
#14
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:50:38 -0500, Flasherly
wrote: Given that resource on your MB ... - The one caveat, since XP is perhaps indirectly referenced, at least in the header, is I'd be highly suspicious of XP actually "taking" to any such NAND shenanigans. That the SSD controller, after XP, was able to sufficiently remap convention HDD strategy for compatibility is a lot;...just in saying, I personally wouldn't press the point to expect too much on all but an abandoned operating system. |
#15
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:50:38 -0500, Flasherly wrote: Given that resource on your MB ... - The one caveat, since XP is perhaps indirectly referenced, at least in the header, is I'd be highly suspicious of XP actually "taking" to any such NAND shenanigans. That the SSD controller, after XP, was able to sufficiently remap convention HDD strategy for compatibility is a lot;...just in saying, I personally wouldn't press the point to expect too much on all but an abandoned operating system. Intel offers a PDF, to discuss "alignment" if you want to do it for your new SSD. If the source OS is Win7, Win8.1, Win10, those are already aligned on 1MB boundaries, so don't need any assistance in that regard. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...tech-brief.pdf If you're using WinXP, fixing things up might help a bit. It affects the speed a tiny bit. Paul |
#16
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:50:38 -0500, Flasherly wrote: Given that resource on your MB ... Doesn't apply to me.. still running Win7 here. - The one caveat, since XP is perhaps indirectly referenced, at least in the header, is I'd be highly suspicious of XP actually "taking" to any such NAND shenanigans. That the SSD controller, after XP, was able to sufficiently remap convention HDD strategy for compatibility is a lot;...just in saying, I personally wouldn't press the point to expect too much on all but an abandoned operating system. |
#17
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
Paul wrote:
Bill wrote: Paul, Thank you for your detailed explanation. I got the point! Maybe some details besides speed will emerge about these two technologies. I've learned about the 4 or so types of "cell technology", single, double, octal, etc.--though I may be abusing their appropriate names in favor of how I think about them. Bill Your computer is only as good as the weakest link. The seek time of your two device types is low, and much lower than a HDD. Either drive type would solve the seek time problem. The most visible improvement is at boot time. Some other things, you might forget you got an SSD. One other thing I noticed, is how much faster a 32 bit OS boots (because it supports less RAM). After the pudgy boot times on all the 64 bit OSes here, I was kinda shocked about how fast the first boot of the 32 bit system was. It got slower later in the day, after I added some stuff in and it did some updates. But at least what that showed me, is the amount of RAM when I boot 64 bit, is having an impact on how long I have to wait. SSD or no SSD. I think there is an option in the BIOS concerning how well that you want your memory to be "checked" when the system is booted. The entire purpose of that option is to be able to shorten the boot time. You probably know more about this than I do... Bill |
#18
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 01:49:08 -0500, Paul
wrote: Intel offers a PDF, to discuss "alignment" if you want to do it for your new SSD. If the source OS is Win7, Win8.1, Win10, those are already aligned on 1MB boundaries, so don't need any assistance in that regard. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...tech-brief.pdf If you're using WinXP, fixing things up might help a bit. It affects the speed a tiny bit. Paul I generally do it from Win7 - half a dozen various disk partitioning tools, couple do the "alignment" thing. Of course there's also the garbage-routine, not native to XP, but supposedly more robust about a fall-back automated state of maintenance in recent generation controllers. freeware Speed Up Your SSD By Correctly Aligning Your Partitions We've covered proper solid state drive maintenance before, but one of the most overlooked factors in proper SSD care is partition alignment. Here's how to make sure your partitions are aligned correctly and that you're getting the most out of your SSD. How to Maximize the Life of Your SSDHow to Maximize the Life of Your SSDHow to Maximize the Life of Your SSD An SSD drive is a worthwhile investment, but like any storage device, it can fail. In fact, failing …Read moreRead on We talked about partition alignment in our SSD migrating tutorial, but if you've already migrated to an SSD, you might not have realized that you're sacrificing performance with misaligned partitions. A regular hard drive usually starts its first partition after 63 empty blocks, while SSDs require 64 blocks of data for optimal performance. This means that sometimes, if your SSD was formatted by something other than Windows' installer, it can be aligned incorrectly and will transfer data much slower than intended. How to Migrate to a Solid-State Drive Without Reinstalling WindowsHow to Migrate to a Solid-State Drive Without Reinstalling WindowsHow to Migrate to a Solid-State Drive Without Rein Installing a solid-state drive is one of the best upgrades you can make to your computer, but…Read moreRead on To see if your partitions are aligned correctly, hit the Start menu and type in msinfo32. Enter Msinfo32 and go to Components Storage Disks. Look for your SSD on the list and find the "Partition Starting Offset" item. If this number is divisible by 4096 (that is, if dividing it by 4096 equals a whole number and not a decimal), your partition is correctly aligned. If not, you need to realign it. Luckily, this is pretty easy to do with the Gparted live CD. If you have an Ubuntu live CD lying around, that will work too, since it has Gparted available under System Administration. Start up Gparted and find your SSD in the upper-right dropdown menu. Select it, and click on your first partition in the menu. Hit the Resize/Move button in the toolbar. Change the "Free Space Preceding" box to 2MB, uncheck "Round to Cylinders", and hit "Resize/Move". (If you're using a newer live CD, check the "MiB" box). Hit Apply once and let it do its thing. Now hit Resize/Move again, and change the "Free Space Preceding" box to 1MB. Uncheck "Round to Cylinders" again, hit Resize/Move, then click Apply. Now your drive will be aligned to exactly 2048 blocks after the beginning of the disk, which allows for optimal SSD performance. Note that if you have multiple partitions on your SSD, you'll need to repeat this process for each partition, not just the first one on the disk. Yes, moving it 2MB away then moving it back 1MB seems like a long, roundabout method, but Gparted measures space in a weird way. When you first start up Gparted, your partition will have less than 1MB of space preceding it, but Gparted will only measure it as 0-meaning if you align it to 1MB right off the bat, it'll keep the drive annoyingly misaligned at 1.03MB. If you set it to 2MB, hit Apply, and then move it back to 1MB, it works fine. Boot back into Windows, open Msinfo32 back up, and run the above check again. If you get a whole number this time, your partition is correctly aligned. If you get an error when you try to boot back into Windows, that doesn't mean you did anything wrong—sometimes Windows gets a little confused and can't find a partition if you move it (even if you only move it 0.7MB away). Grab your Windows installation disc, boot into it, and hit Repair Your Computer on the main menu. It should automatically detect the issue and fix your boot menu for you. That's it. It seems a little complicated and roundabout, but it's something not a lot of people know to do, so you may have been sitting with a non-optimized SSD for all this time (I know I have been for a few months). This should fix the problem, and if you've had your SSD for awhile, you might even notice a speed boost. |
#19
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PCIe , Was: Updating an XP box
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 02:12:41 -0500, Bill wrote:
Doesn't apply to me.. still running Win7 here. - You've everything covered then except for a newer architectural chipset for an AM4 storage bus, Intel's counterpart, or AMD "unofficial" driver support for W7, while that appertains, aside from Intel's compact with Microsoft to only permit comparable Intel updates to run from a Windows 10 platform. Easier when compatibility for hardware used to be a hardware thing that could be solely explained from a logical basis of advancements in physics. Then came a day when Microsoft got its fingers burned, its butt hauled into court for manipulating technology over monopolization practices. Maybe twenty years ago, then they were saying, Bill Gates had set back technological advancements by twenty years. Obviously they since learned something, aside from an Indian CEO presently managing 50,000 copyright patents on what Microsoft says most of the computers in the world can and cannot do. |
#20
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Updating an XP box
On 12/10/2018 12:52 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 06:44:14 -0600, pheasant16 wrote: Not a gamer, just need a newer OS to run current browsers so can do things on websites that don't accept what works on XP any more. Should handle W7 easily. Socket: AM3 Clockspeed: 3.1 GHz No of Cores: 3 Typical TDP: 95 W I'd mistook you keeping both OS. You're good to go also with PCIE SSD, although I'd question the point with only a browser in hand. And I'd need the real experience of running both PCIe Gen3x2 M.2 against SATA SSD for an impression of applicable benefits. Presumably perhaps a couple times faster than SATA, although I might advance, on a loan, that you really can't expect HTML5 to look any prettier for it. You'll also need more help with XP and how all that works: having an assembled hardware platform -- in subsequent preparation of stages and processes for "bringing it all up" into its intended final configuration. Thanks guys. You've given me the encouragement to attempt it. So when the snow flies and alma mater has another championship put away will be looking for a winter project. If I have trouble bringing it back, know where to come for advice. Thanks again. |
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