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Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 19th 07, 12:59 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Guest[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?

I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come manufacturers don't make it clearer?
  #2  
Old April 19th 07, 04:21 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?

Guest wrote:
I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to
run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about
rails and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail?
If for one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined,
how come manufacturers don't make it clearer?


You can get power numbers from Xbitlabs, in their reviews.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...gts-640_6.html

To take an example, they measure an 8800GTX here. This is what you get when
you click one of their thumbnails. (Note - I still haven't figured out
what their "dV" is supposed to mean. It could be the variation of the
rail reading, but I'm only guessing at that.)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...x_full.gif&1=1

Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V
Volts 11.66 11.7 11.76 3.26
Watts 43.92 42.9 40.768 3.912, Total_watts = 131.5W

Dividing Watts by Volts, would give Amps, so we can add
the following row to their table.

(Amps) 3.77A 3.67A 3.47A 1.2A

What the four columns correspond to:

12V - This is the PCI Express video card slot connector.
12V-EX.1 - One of the PCI Express 2x3 power connectors
12V-EX.2 - The second 2x3 PCI Express, only present on 8800GTX
3.3V - This is the PCI Express slot connector (so the cards use a little bit of 3.3V)

The source of the current for the PCI Express video card slot connector,
is the 24 pin main power connector. The PCI Express 2x3 connectors
may come from a separate rail on your power supply.

Now the results for a 8800GTS 640MB (Peak3D results)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...s_full.gif&1=1

Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V
Volts 11.72 11.77 not_used 3.26
Watts 41.02 71.8 not_used 4.02, Total_watts = 116.8W
(amps) 3.5A 6.1A not_used 1.23A

Note that switching power converters work more or
less at "constant power". That means, in the above result,
the 41.02 watts is fixed, and at an offered power supply
voltage of 11.72 volts, 3.5A is drawn. If we took a screwdriver,
opened their power supply, and cranked the 12V adjustment a little
bit, so it read exactly 12.0V, the current we would measure would
be a little bit less - it would be 41.02/12.0 = 3.42A .
This "constant power" condition, only applies to things
that use switching power conversion, and the assumption on
a video card, is that all 12V power is run through switching
converters on the video card.

So the total 12V current on the 8800GTS 640MB is 9.6 amps, while
the 8800GTX they measured is 10.9 amps. The original estimate
for the 8800GTX was supposed to be 145W, and 145W/12V = 12.08 amps.

For processor power, the power is measured at the processor pins
by Intel, and so the calculation we use, has to represent the
power as seen at the 2x2 connector. An E6600 is a 65W part,
and if the motherboard Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the
amps on the 2x2 ATX12V connector would be
(65W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 6.02 amps (i.e. corrected for efficiency)

Now, let's build a representative single card 8800GTS 640MB system:

8800GTS 12V @ 9.6 amps
E6600 processor 12V @ 6.02 amps
CD_peakpwr 12V @ 1.5 amps
HDD_idle 12V @ 0.6 amps
3_case_fans 12V @ 0.5 amps
Total 18.22 amps

The 29 amps is a bit misleading. We could find a 130W processor
to use in our new build, which would raise the processor contribution
by another 6 amps, but that only gets us to 24.22 amps or so. Thus
a detailed calculation, using all the components in your build,
is a safer way to do it, than to just take a number from a web
site.

This is the rating label from your W0106RU.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...153-039-05.jpg

Jonnyguru reviews a similar PSU W0116RU, here.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17

You cannot actually draw 18 amps from all four rails, because
the supply has a power limit. If we took 700W and divided by
12V, that is 58.3 amps, and if divided evenly four ways,
that would be 14.58 amps per 12V rail. There is nothing
significant about that number, except to deflate the impression
the "18A" leaves when you look at the power supply label.
Such a limit tends to be thermal, and if some rails don't
use all their power, it allows the other rails to get closer
to their max.

What I cannot tell you, is whether the 12V rail on your
supply, is one giant rail feeding all four outputs, or
is four separate circuits. But with an E6600 and a
8800GTS 640MB, there should not be a problem running it.
The 8800GTS would be split between two power sources (main power
connector 3.5A, PCI Express 2x3 at 6.1A), and the single
PCI Express 2x3 connector won't be making a dent in the rail
it is connected to (good for at least 14.58 amps and potentially
more if some other rails are less used).

HTH,
Paul

  #3  
Old April 19th 07, 07:12 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Guest[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?

Thanks. Now I woill have to read it again to understand better. So in
short, are they talking combined amps or each amp on a rail?

"Paul" wrote in message ...
Guest wrote:
I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to
run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails
and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for
one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come
manufacturers don't make it clearer?


You can get power numbers from Xbitlabs, in their reviews.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...gts-640_6.html

To take an example, they measure an 8800GTX here. This is what you get
when
you click one of their thumbnails. (Note - I still haven't figured out
what their "dV" is supposed to mean. It could be the variation of the
rail reading, but I'm only guessing at that.)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...x_full.gif&1=1

Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V
Volts 11.66 11.7 11.76 3.26
Watts 43.92 42.9 40.768 3.912, Total_watts = 131.5W

Dividing Watts by Volts, would give Amps, so we can add
the following row to their table.

(Amps) 3.77A 3.67A 3.47A 1.2A

What the four columns correspond to:

12V - This is the PCI Express video card slot connector.
12V-EX.1 - One of the PCI Express 2x3 power connectors
12V-EX.2 - The second 2x3 PCI Express, only present on 8800GTX
3.3V - This is the PCI Express slot connector (so the cards use a little
bit of 3.3V)

The source of the current for the PCI Express video card slot connector,
is the 24 pin main power connector. The PCI Express 2x3 connectors
may come from a separate rail on your power supply.

Now the results for a 8800GTS 640MB (Peak3D results)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...s_full.gif&1=1

Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V
Volts 11.72 11.77 not_used 3.26
Watts 41.02 71.8 not_used 4.02, Total_watts = 116.8W
(amps) 3.5A 6.1A not_used 1.23A

Note that switching power converters work more or
less at "constant power". That means, in the above result,
the 41.02 watts is fixed, and at an offered power supply
voltage of 11.72 volts, 3.5A is drawn. If we took a screwdriver,
opened their power supply, and cranked the 12V adjustment a little
bit, so it read exactly 12.0V, the current we would measure would
be a little bit less - it would be 41.02/12.0 = 3.42A .
This "constant power" condition, only applies to things
that use switching power conversion, and the assumption on
a video card, is that all 12V power is run through switching
converters on the video card.

So the total 12V current on the 8800GTS 640MB is 9.6 amps, while
the 8800GTX they measured is 10.9 amps. The original estimate
for the 8800GTX was supposed to be 145W, and 145W/12V = 12.08 amps.

For processor power, the power is measured at the processor pins
by Intel, and so the calculation we use, has to represent the
power as seen at the 2x2 connector. An E6600 is a 65W part,
and if the motherboard Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the
amps on the 2x2 ATX12V connector would be
(65W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 6.02 amps (i.e. corrected for efficiency)

Now, let's build a representative single card 8800GTS 640MB system:

8800GTS 12V @ 9.6 amps
E6600 processor 12V @ 6.02 amps
CD_peakpwr 12V @ 1.5 amps
HDD_idle 12V @ 0.6 amps
3_case_fans 12V @ 0.5 amps
Total 18.22 amps

The 29 amps is a bit misleading. We could find a 130W processor
to use in our new build, which would raise the processor contribution
by another 6 amps, but that only gets us to 24.22 amps or so. Thus
a detailed calculation, using all the components in your build,
is a safer way to do it, than to just take a number from a web
site.

This is the rating label from your W0106RU.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...153-039-05.jpg

Jonnyguru reviews a similar PSU W0116RU, here.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17

You cannot actually draw 18 amps from all four rails, because
the supply has a power limit. If we took 700W and divided by
12V, that is 58.3 amps, and if divided evenly four ways,
that would be 14.58 amps per 12V rail. There is nothing
significant about that number, except to deflate the impression
the "18A" leaves when you look at the power supply label.
Such a limit tends to be thermal, and if some rails don't
use all their power, it allows the other rails to get closer
to their max.

What I cannot tell you, is whether the 12V rail on your
supply, is one giant rail feeding all four outputs, or
is four separate circuits. But with an E6600 and a
8800GTS 640MB, there should not be a problem running it.
The 8800GTS would be split between two power sources (main power
connector 3.5A, PCI Express 2x3 at 6.1A), and the single
PCI Express 2x3 connector won't be making a dent in the rail
it is connected to (good for at least 14.58 amps and potentially
more if some other rails are less used).

HTH,
Paul



  #4  
Old April 20th 07, 09:58 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?

Guest wrote:
Thanks. Now I woill have to read it again to understand better. So in
short, are they talking combined amps or each amp on a rail?


The 18.22 amps I calculated, comes from different rails on your
supply. So it is spread out. I calculated it as a total figure,
to show you how far from the Nvidia figure it was.

The Nvidia quote of 29 amps, would be a combined figure. As if all the
rails on the supply came from a common source. In fact, a lot of supplies
actually have a common source inside. Some review sites have opened up the
supply, and they identify evidence that the supply is a single source.
So, your "4 x 18A" could well be a 72A supply and four current limiters.
Or it might not even have the current limits. On the Jonnyguru site,
the author of some of the reviews has driven the power supply being
tested, above its current rating, and it doesn't shut off. So the
notion of a "quad rail" can be just a deception at times. And not
telling the truth about how the power supplies work, and not providing
wiring diagrams, only complicates the ability to give people advice.

Which is why I can wholeheartedly recommend a supply like this. Not
because it is a great power supply, but because there are no issues to
worry about when connecting it to stuff. It has a single transformer
with 60 amps output, and four PCI Express connectors. You can connect
this to stuff, and not worry about it. A lot of the other large power
supplies, are just a source of indigestion (and hours of web searching).
I hate having to find web reviews, to get basic information for products.

http://www.pcpower.com/products/view...php?show=S75QB

Paul


"Paul" wrote in message ...
Guest wrote:
I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to
run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails
and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for
one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come
manufacturers don't make it clearer?

You can get power numbers from Xbitlabs, in their reviews.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...gts-640_6.html

To take an example, they measure an 8800GTX here. This is what you get
when
you click one of their thumbnails. (Note - I still haven't figured out
what their "dV" is supposed to mean. It could be the variation of the
rail reading, but I'm only guessing at that.)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...x_full.gif&1=1

Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V
Volts 11.66 11.7 11.76 3.26
Watts 43.92 42.9 40.768 3.912, Total_watts = 131.5W

Dividing Watts by Volts, would give Amps, so we can add
the following row to their table.

(Amps) 3.77A 3.67A 3.47A 1.2A

What the four columns correspond to:

12V - This is the PCI Express video card slot connector.
12V-EX.1 - One of the PCI Express 2x3 power connectors
12V-EX.2 - The second 2x3 PCI Express, only present on 8800GTX
3.3V - This is the PCI Express slot connector (so the cards use a little
bit of 3.3V)

The source of the current for the PCI Express video card slot connector,
is the 24 pin main power connector. The PCI Express 2x3 connectors
may come from a separate rail on your power supply.

Now the results for a 8800GTS 640MB (Peak3D results)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...s_full.gif&1=1

Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V
Volts 11.72 11.77 not_used 3.26
Watts 41.02 71.8 not_used 4.02, Total_watts = 116.8W
(amps) 3.5A 6.1A not_used 1.23A

Note that switching power converters work more or
less at "constant power". That means, in the above result,
the 41.02 watts is fixed, and at an offered power supply
voltage of 11.72 volts, 3.5A is drawn. If we took a screwdriver,
opened their power supply, and cranked the 12V adjustment a little
bit, so it read exactly 12.0V, the current we would measure would
be a little bit less - it would be 41.02/12.0 = 3.42A .
This "constant power" condition, only applies to things
that use switching power conversion, and the assumption on
a video card, is that all 12V power is run through switching
converters on the video card.

So the total 12V current on the 8800GTS 640MB is 9.6 amps, while
the 8800GTX they measured is 10.9 amps. The original estimate
for the 8800GTX was supposed to be 145W, and 145W/12V = 12.08 amps.

For processor power, the power is measured at the processor pins
by Intel, and so the calculation we use, has to represent the
power as seen at the 2x2 connector. An E6600 is a 65W part,
and if the motherboard Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the
amps on the 2x2 ATX12V connector would be
(65W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 6.02 amps (i.e. corrected for efficiency)

Now, let's build a representative single card 8800GTS 640MB system:

8800GTS 12V @ 9.6 amps
E6600 processor 12V @ 6.02 amps
CD_peakpwr 12V @ 1.5 amps
HDD_idle 12V @ 0.6 amps
3_case_fans 12V @ 0.5 amps
Total 18.22 amps

The 29 amps is a bit misleading. We could find a 130W processor
to use in our new build, which would raise the processor contribution
by another 6 amps, but that only gets us to 24.22 amps or so. Thus
a detailed calculation, using all the components in your build,
is a safer way to do it, than to just take a number from a web
site.

This is the rating label from your W0106RU.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...153-039-05.jpg

Jonnyguru reviews a similar PSU W0116RU, here.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17

You cannot actually draw 18 amps from all four rails, because
the supply has a power limit. If we took 700W and divided by
12V, that is 58.3 amps, and if divided evenly four ways,
that would be 14.58 amps per 12V rail. There is nothing
significant about that number, except to deflate the impression
the "18A" leaves when you look at the power supply label.
Such a limit tends to be thermal, and if some rails don't
use all their power, it allows the other rails to get closer
to their max.

What I cannot tell you, is whether the 12V rail on your
supply, is one giant rail feeding all four outputs, or
is four separate circuits. But with an E6600 and a
8800GTS 640MB, there should not be a problem running it.
The 8800GTS would be split between two power sources (main power
connector 3.5A, PCI Express 2x3 at 6.1A), and the single
PCI Express 2x3 connector won't be making a dent in the rail
it is connected to (good for at least 14.58 amps and potentially
more if some other rails are less used).

HTH,
Paul



 




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