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#1
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Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?
I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come manufacturers don't make it clearer?
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#2
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Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?
Guest wrote:
I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come manufacturers don't make it clearer? You can get power numbers from Xbitlabs, in their reviews. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...gts-640_6.html To take an example, they measure an 8800GTX here. This is what you get when you click one of their thumbnails. (Note - I still haven't figured out what their "dV" is supposed to mean. It could be the variation of the rail reading, but I'm only guessing at that.) http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...x_full.gif&1=1 Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V Volts 11.66 11.7 11.76 3.26 Watts 43.92 42.9 40.768 3.912, Total_watts = 131.5W Dividing Watts by Volts, would give Amps, so we can add the following row to their table. (Amps) 3.77A 3.67A 3.47A 1.2A What the four columns correspond to: 12V - This is the PCI Express video card slot connector. 12V-EX.1 - One of the PCI Express 2x3 power connectors 12V-EX.2 - The second 2x3 PCI Express, only present on 8800GTX 3.3V - This is the PCI Express slot connector (so the cards use a little bit of 3.3V) The source of the current for the PCI Express video card slot connector, is the 24 pin main power connector. The PCI Express 2x3 connectors may come from a separate rail on your power supply. Now the results for a 8800GTS 640MB (Peak3D results) http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...s_full.gif&1=1 Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V Volts 11.72 11.77 not_used 3.26 Watts 41.02 71.8 not_used 4.02, Total_watts = 116.8W (amps) 3.5A 6.1A not_used 1.23A Note that switching power converters work more or less at "constant power". That means, in the above result, the 41.02 watts is fixed, and at an offered power supply voltage of 11.72 volts, 3.5A is drawn. If we took a screwdriver, opened their power supply, and cranked the 12V adjustment a little bit, so it read exactly 12.0V, the current we would measure would be a little bit less - it would be 41.02/12.0 = 3.42A . This "constant power" condition, only applies to things that use switching power conversion, and the assumption on a video card, is that all 12V power is run through switching converters on the video card. So the total 12V current on the 8800GTS 640MB is 9.6 amps, while the 8800GTX they measured is 10.9 amps. The original estimate for the 8800GTX was supposed to be 145W, and 145W/12V = 12.08 amps. For processor power, the power is measured at the processor pins by Intel, and so the calculation we use, has to represent the power as seen at the 2x2 connector. An E6600 is a 65W part, and if the motherboard Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the amps on the 2x2 ATX12V connector would be (65W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 6.02 amps (i.e. corrected for efficiency) Now, let's build a representative single card 8800GTS 640MB system: 8800GTS 12V @ 9.6 amps E6600 processor 12V @ 6.02 amps CD_peakpwr 12V @ 1.5 amps HDD_idle 12V @ 0.6 amps 3_case_fans 12V @ 0.5 amps Total 18.22 amps The 29 amps is a bit misleading. We could find a 130W processor to use in our new build, which would raise the processor contribution by another 6 amps, but that only gets us to 24.22 amps or so. Thus a detailed calculation, using all the components in your build, is a safer way to do it, than to just take a number from a web site. This is the rating label from your W0106RU. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...153-039-05.jpg Jonnyguru reviews a similar PSU W0116RU, here. http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17 You cannot actually draw 18 amps from all four rails, because the supply has a power limit. If we took 700W and divided by 12V, that is 58.3 amps, and if divided evenly four ways, that would be 14.58 amps per 12V rail. There is nothing significant about that number, except to deflate the impression the "18A" leaves when you look at the power supply label. Such a limit tends to be thermal, and if some rails don't use all their power, it allows the other rails to get closer to their max. What I cannot tell you, is whether the 12V rail on your supply, is one giant rail feeding all four outputs, or is four separate circuits. But with an E6600 and a 8800GTS 640MB, there should not be a problem running it. The 8800GTS would be split between two power sources (main power connector 3.5A, PCI Express 2x3 at 6.1A), and the single PCI Express 2x3 connector won't be making a dent in the rail it is connected to (good for at least 14.58 amps and potentially more if some other rails are less used). HTH, Paul |
#3
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Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?
Thanks. Now I woill have to read it again to understand better. So in
short, are they talking combined amps or each amp on a rail? "Paul" wrote in message ... Guest wrote: I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come manufacturers don't make it clearer? You can get power numbers from Xbitlabs, in their reviews. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...gts-640_6.html To take an example, they measure an 8800GTX here. This is what you get when you click one of their thumbnails. (Note - I still haven't figured out what their "dV" is supposed to mean. It could be the variation of the rail reading, but I'm only guessing at that.) http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...x_full.gif&1=1 Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V Volts 11.66 11.7 11.76 3.26 Watts 43.92 42.9 40.768 3.912, Total_watts = 131.5W Dividing Watts by Volts, would give Amps, so we can add the following row to their table. (Amps) 3.77A 3.67A 3.47A 1.2A What the four columns correspond to: 12V - This is the PCI Express video card slot connector. 12V-EX.1 - One of the PCI Express 2x3 power connectors 12V-EX.2 - The second 2x3 PCI Express, only present on 8800GTX 3.3V - This is the PCI Express slot connector (so the cards use a little bit of 3.3V) The source of the current for the PCI Express video card slot connector, is the 24 pin main power connector. The PCI Express 2x3 connectors may come from a separate rail on your power supply. Now the results for a 8800GTS 640MB (Peak3D results) http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...s_full.gif&1=1 Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V Volts 11.72 11.77 not_used 3.26 Watts 41.02 71.8 not_used 4.02, Total_watts = 116.8W (amps) 3.5A 6.1A not_used 1.23A Note that switching power converters work more or less at "constant power". That means, in the above result, the 41.02 watts is fixed, and at an offered power supply voltage of 11.72 volts, 3.5A is drawn. If we took a screwdriver, opened their power supply, and cranked the 12V adjustment a little bit, so it read exactly 12.0V, the current we would measure would be a little bit less - it would be 41.02/12.0 = 3.42A . This "constant power" condition, only applies to things that use switching power conversion, and the assumption on a video card, is that all 12V power is run through switching converters on the video card. So the total 12V current on the 8800GTS 640MB is 9.6 amps, while the 8800GTX they measured is 10.9 amps. The original estimate for the 8800GTX was supposed to be 145W, and 145W/12V = 12.08 amps. For processor power, the power is measured at the processor pins by Intel, and so the calculation we use, has to represent the power as seen at the 2x2 connector. An E6600 is a 65W part, and if the motherboard Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the amps on the 2x2 ATX12V connector would be (65W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 6.02 amps (i.e. corrected for efficiency) Now, let's build a representative single card 8800GTS 640MB system: 8800GTS 12V @ 9.6 amps E6600 processor 12V @ 6.02 amps CD_peakpwr 12V @ 1.5 amps HDD_idle 12V @ 0.6 amps 3_case_fans 12V @ 0.5 amps Total 18.22 amps The 29 amps is a bit misleading. We could find a 130W processor to use in our new build, which would raise the processor contribution by another 6 amps, but that only gets us to 24.22 amps or so. Thus a detailed calculation, using all the components in your build, is a safer way to do it, than to just take a number from a web site. This is the rating label from your W0106RU. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...153-039-05.jpg Jonnyguru reviews a similar PSU W0116RU, here. http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17 You cannot actually draw 18 amps from all four rails, because the supply has a power limit. If we took 700W and divided by 12V, that is 58.3 amps, and if divided evenly four ways, that would be 14.58 amps per 12V rail. There is nothing significant about that number, except to deflate the impression the "18A" leaves when you look at the power supply label. Such a limit tends to be thermal, and if some rails don't use all their power, it allows the other rails to get closer to their max. What I cannot tell you, is whether the 12V rail on your supply, is one giant rail feeding all four outputs, or is four separate circuits. But with an E6600 and a 8800GTS 640MB, there should not be a problem running it. The 8800GTS would be split between two power sources (main power connector 3.5A, PCI Express 2x3 at 6.1A), and the single PCI Express 2x3 connector won't be making a dent in the rail it is connected to (good for at least 14.58 amps and potentially more if some other rails are less used). HTH, Paul |
#4
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Thermaltake W0106RU for 8800GTS?
Guest wrote:
Thanks. Now I woill have to read it again to understand better. So in short, are they talking combined amps or each amp on a rail? The 18.22 amps I calculated, comes from different rails on your supply. So it is spread out. I calculated it as a total figure, to show you how far from the Nvidia figure it was. The Nvidia quote of 29 amps, would be a combined figure. As if all the rails on the supply came from a common source. In fact, a lot of supplies actually have a common source inside. Some review sites have opened up the supply, and they identify evidence that the supply is a single source. So, your "4 x 18A" could well be a 72A supply and four current limiters. Or it might not even have the current limits. On the Jonnyguru site, the author of some of the reviews has driven the power supply being tested, above its current rating, and it doesn't shut off. So the notion of a "quad rail" can be just a deception at times. And not telling the truth about how the power supplies work, and not providing wiring diagrams, only complicates the ability to give people advice. Which is why I can wholeheartedly recommend a supply like this. Not because it is a great power supply, but because there are no issues to worry about when connecting it to stuff. It has a single transformer with 60 amps output, and four PCI Express connectors. You can connect this to stuff, and not worry about it. A lot of the other large power supplies, are just a source of indigestion (and hours of web searching). I hate having to find web reviews, to get basic information for products. http://www.pcpower.com/products/view...php?show=S75QB Paul "Paul" wrote in message ... Guest wrote: I already bought it and the Nvidia website says that it is certifed to run it. I see no problems thus far, but I keep seeing things about rails and amp ratings or at least 29. Is that combined or on one rail? If for one, them how come Nvidia's site approved it? If for combined, how come manufacturers don't make it clearer? You can get power numbers from Xbitlabs, in their reviews. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...gts-640_6.html To take an example, they measure an 8800GTX here. This is what you get when you click one of their thumbnails. (Note - I still haven't figured out what their "dV" is supposed to mean. It could be the variation of the rail reading, but I'm only guessing at that.) http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...x_full.gif&1=1 Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V Volts 11.66 11.7 11.76 3.26 Watts 43.92 42.9 40.768 3.912, Total_watts = 131.5W Dividing Watts by Volts, would give Amps, so we can add the following row to their table. (Amps) 3.77A 3.67A 3.47A 1.2A What the four columns correspond to: 12V - This is the PCI Express video card slot connector. 12V-EX.1 - One of the PCI Express 2x3 power connectors 12V-EX.2 - The second 2x3 PCI Express, only present on 8800GTX 3.3V - This is the PCI Express slot connector (so the cards use a little bit of 3.3V) The source of the current for the PCI Express video card slot connector, is the 24 pin main power connector. The PCI Express 2x3 connectors may come from a separate rail on your power supply. Now the results for a 8800GTS 640MB (Peak3D results) http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...s_full.gif&1=1 Peak3D 12V 12V-Ex.1 12V-Ex.2 3.3V Volts 11.72 11.77 not_used 3.26 Watts 41.02 71.8 not_used 4.02, Total_watts = 116.8W (amps) 3.5A 6.1A not_used 1.23A Note that switching power converters work more or less at "constant power". That means, in the above result, the 41.02 watts is fixed, and at an offered power supply voltage of 11.72 volts, 3.5A is drawn. If we took a screwdriver, opened their power supply, and cranked the 12V adjustment a little bit, so it read exactly 12.0V, the current we would measure would be a little bit less - it would be 41.02/12.0 = 3.42A . This "constant power" condition, only applies to things that use switching power conversion, and the assumption on a video card, is that all 12V power is run through switching converters on the video card. So the total 12V current on the 8800GTS 640MB is 9.6 amps, while the 8800GTX they measured is 10.9 amps. The original estimate for the 8800GTX was supposed to be 145W, and 145W/12V = 12.08 amps. For processor power, the power is measured at the processor pins by Intel, and so the calculation we use, has to represent the power as seen at the 2x2 connector. An E6600 is a 65W part, and if the motherboard Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the amps on the 2x2 ATX12V connector would be (65W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 6.02 amps (i.e. corrected for efficiency) Now, let's build a representative single card 8800GTS 640MB system: 8800GTS 12V @ 9.6 amps E6600 processor 12V @ 6.02 amps CD_peakpwr 12V @ 1.5 amps HDD_idle 12V @ 0.6 amps 3_case_fans 12V @ 0.5 amps Total 18.22 amps The 29 amps is a bit misleading. We could find a 130W processor to use in our new build, which would raise the processor contribution by another 6 amps, but that only gets us to 24.22 amps or so. Thus a detailed calculation, using all the components in your build, is a safer way to do it, than to just take a number from a web site. This is the rating label from your W0106RU. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...153-039-05.jpg Jonnyguru reviews a similar PSU W0116RU, here. http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17 You cannot actually draw 18 amps from all four rails, because the supply has a power limit. If we took 700W and divided by 12V, that is 58.3 amps, and if divided evenly four ways, that would be 14.58 amps per 12V rail. There is nothing significant about that number, except to deflate the impression the "18A" leaves when you look at the power supply label. Such a limit tends to be thermal, and if some rails don't use all their power, it allows the other rails to get closer to their max. What I cannot tell you, is whether the 12V rail on your supply, is one giant rail feeding all four outputs, or is four separate circuits. But with an E6600 and a 8800GTS 640MB, there should not be a problem running it. The 8800GTS would be split between two power sources (main power connector 3.5A, PCI Express 2x3 at 6.1A), and the single PCI Express 2x3 connector won't be making a dent in the rail it is connected to (good for at least 14.58 amps and potentially more if some other rails are less used). HTH, Paul |
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