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#61
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Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card ...
Well look at this http://ati.amd.com/technology/hypermemory.html it
sure shows a lot of ati cards including the x 1300 "J. Clarke" wrote in message ... Tony Pacc wrote: Ati 1300 uses Hypermemory,I have 1300 Pro and pretty sure it uses Hypermemory. Check again and you'll find that it has 256 MB or more of GDDR2 RAM on board. You need to read the specs on the _board_, not the _chip_. You'll mostly find Hypermemory on low-end laptops but actually it's rare even there--usually the low end will use Intel embedded video instead of ATI. "Augustus" wrote in message news:%NWNh.15566$__3.7401@edtnps90... "Mr.E Solved!" wrote in message news J. Clarke wrote: Augustus wrote: "Barry Watzman" wrote in message ... Hey, Sky King: It just doesn't make to get a card that's not Vista (Aero) compatible when one that is doesn't cost any more. Without regard to whether or not one has current plans to actually use Vista (plans change). This is essentially my point. I don't know what you people are on about. It's hard to find a PCI-Express video board that is _not_ "Aero compatible". You'd have to pretty much set out deliberately to find one. Seems to me that it's a non-issue. I believe they are confusing 'Aero' compatibility or capabilities with either HDCP or DX10 compatibilities, as you say, nearly every card will run desktop compositioning, including non current cards. DX10 compliance, a whole different issue. The mainstream GeForce 8 series will be available in about two weeks, so there will be more No, I'm not confusing Aero compatability with DX10 compliance. Vista Aero on a low memory 64bit turbo-cache or hypermemory style card will wok but is not desirable. It has sluggish performance compared to even the 1300 series and 7300 cards. And there's plenty of bottom feeder cards out there with 64bit memory and low dedicated RAM. Vista Aero doesn't require much. But you will defintely feel a difference between a 64bit 7100LE Turbocache or a 64 bit 1550 Hypermemory versus a "real" low end 7300 or 1300 series given the same hardware. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#62
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Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card ...
Tony Pacc wrote:
Well look at this http://ati.amd.com/technology/hypermemory.html it sure shows a lot of ati cards including the x 1300 Nope. It shows processors, not _cards_. You're confusing "can" with "must". Those chips can be configured to use Hypermemory. That does not mean that they must be used that way. "J. Clarke" wrote in message ... Tony Pacc wrote: Ati 1300 uses Hypermemory,I have 1300 Pro and pretty sure it uses Hypermemory. Check again and you'll find that it has 256 MB or more of GDDR2 RAM on board. You need to read the specs on the _board_, not the _chip_. You'll mostly find Hypermemory on low-end laptops but actually it's rare even there--usually the low end will use Intel embedded video instead of ATI. "Augustus" wrote in message news:%NWNh.15566$__3.7401@edtnps90... "Mr.E Solved!" wrote in message news J. Clarke wrote: Augustus wrote: "Barry Watzman" wrote in message ... Hey, Sky King: It just doesn't make to get a card that's not Vista (Aero) compatible when one that is doesn't cost any more. Without regard to whether or not one has current plans to actually use Vista (plans change). This is essentially my point. I don't know what you people are on about. It's hard to find a PCI-Express video board that is _not_ "Aero compatible". You'd have to pretty much set out deliberately to find one. Seems to me that it's a non-issue. I believe they are confusing 'Aero' compatibility or capabilities with either HDCP or DX10 compatibilities, as you say, nearly every card will run desktop compositioning, including non current cards. DX10 compliance, a whole different issue. The mainstream GeForce 8 series will be available in about two weeks, so there will be more No, I'm not confusing Aero compatability with DX10 compliance. Vista Aero on a low memory 64bit turbo-cache or hypermemory style card will wok but is not desirable. It has sluggish performance compared to even the 1300 series and 7300 cards. And there's plenty of bottom feeder cards out there with 64bit memory and low dedicated RAM. Vista Aero doesn't require much. But you will defintely feel a difference between a 64bit 7100LE Turbocache or a 64 bit 1550 Hypermemory versus a "real" low end 7300 or 1300 series given the same hardware. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#63
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
Roger wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:14:56 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: SoCalCommie wrote: But they have to let me know when they're coming. I have to let them in and I can restrict their access to their ****. Right? (And, generally, they're not the best and the brightest anyway!) Yeah, but "their ****" includes the CableCard that is keyed to the computer. Some do and some don't. I've finally found something good about Charter:-)) No Cable cards. So you're saying that they provide some way to record HD premium content on your computer without a Cable Card? Care to tell us how you connect your computer to their system? -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#64
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Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card ...
The X1300 and many other ATI chips CAN support Hypermemory (shared
memory), but it's only an option, and in any given installation they either may or may not. In most cases, when they are on a motherboard or in a laptops, Hypermemory is used, but when the chip is on a PCI Express or even AGP add-on card, the card has it's own dedicated memory and Hypermemory is not used. However, these are only general rules, any given implementation may or may not implement Hypermemory. Tony Pacc wrote: Well look at this http://ati.amd.com/technology/hypermemory.html it sure shows a lot of ati cards including the x 1300 "J. Clarke" wrote in message ... Tony Pacc wrote: Ati 1300 uses Hypermemory,I have 1300 Pro and pretty sure it uses Hypermemory. Check again and you'll find that it has 256 MB or more of GDDR2 RAM on board. You need to read the specs on the _board_, not the _chip_. You'll mostly find Hypermemory on low-end laptops but actually it's rare even there--usually the low end will use Intel embedded video instead of ATI. "Augustus" wrote in message news:%NWNh.15566$__3.7401@edtnps90... "Mr.E Solved!" wrote in message news J. Clarke wrote: Augustus wrote: "Barry Watzman" wrote in message ... Hey, Sky King: It just doesn't make to get a card that's not Vista (Aero) compatible when one that is doesn't cost any more. Without regard to whether or not one has current plans to actually use Vista (plans change). This is essentially my point. I don't know what you people are on about. It's hard to find a PCI-Express video board that is _not_ "Aero compatible". You'd have to pretty much set out deliberately to find one. Seems to me that it's a non-issue. I believe they are confusing 'Aero' compatibility or capabilities with either HDCP or DX10 compatibilities, as you say, nearly every card will run desktop compositioning, including non current cards. DX10 compliance, a whole different issue. The mainstream GeForce 8 series will be available in about two weeks, so there will be more No, I'm not confusing Aero compatability with DX10 compliance. Vista Aero on a low memory 64bit turbo-cache or hypermemory style card will wok but is not desirable. It has sluggish performance compared to even the 1300 series and 7300 cards. And there's plenty of bottom feeder cards out there with 64bit memory and low dedicated RAM. Vista Aero doesn't require much. But you will defintely feel a difference between a 64bit 7100LE Turbocache or a 64 bit 1550 Hypermemory versus a "real" low end 7300 or 1300 series given the same hardware. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#65
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:18:56 -0400, Roger
wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:14:56 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: SoCalCommie wrote: But they have to let me know when they're coming. I have to let them in and I can restrict their access to their ****. Right? (And, generally, they're not the best and the brightest anyway!) Yeah, but "their ****" includes the CableCard that is keyed to the computer. Some do and some don't. I've finally found something good about Charter:-)) No Cable cards. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com I have comcast cable and I have no cable card. A technician never accessed my computer either. What's up with your cable provider? Geo. |
#66
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:04:50 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: Roger wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:14:56 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: SoCalCommie wrote: But they have to let me know when they're coming. I have to let them in and I can restrict their access to their ****. Right? (And, generally, they're not the best and the brightest anyway!) Yeah, but "their ****" includes the CableCard that is keyed to the computer. Some do and some don't. I've finally found something good about Charter:-)) No Cable cards. So you're saying that they provide some way to record HD premium content Ah, no. that's not what I'm saying. They don't use cards or STBs. The digital feeds right into your cable ready TV set unless you have a tV that doesn't and then you do need a STB. on your computer without a Cable Card? Care to tell us how you connect your computer to their system? I have not tried to connect which would be a waste of time as the only signals coming into our house are basic analog and the only reason we get those is the package with high speed internet is relatively inexpensive. -- Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#67
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
Roger wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:04:50 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: Roger wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:14:56 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: SoCalCommie wrote: But they have to let me know when they're coming. I have to let them in and I can restrict their access to their ****. Right? (And, generally, they're not the best and the brightest anyway!) Yeah, but "their ****" includes the CableCard that is keyed to the computer. Some do and some don't. I've finally found something good about Charter:-)) No Cable cards. So you're saying that they provide some way to record HD premium content Ah, no. that's not what I'm saying. They don't use cards or STBs. The digital feeds right into your cable ready TV set unless you have a tV that doesn't and then you do need a STB. Geez, you're talking about analog cable which has no high definition capability whatsoever. DRM is not an issue with standard definition, even with an STB. Only applies to high definition. on your computer without a Cable Card? Care to tell us how you connect your computer to their system? I have not tried to connect which would be a waste of time as the only signals coming into our house are basic analog and the only reason we get those is the package with high speed internet is relatively inexpensive. I see. So you have no experience at all with the use of a computer as a DVR. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#68
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:41:16 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: Roger wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:04:50 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: Roger wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:14:56 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: SoCalCommie wrote: But they have to let me know when they're coming. I have to let them in and I can restrict their access to their ****. Right? (And, generally, they're not the best and the brightest anyway!) Yeah, but "their ****" includes the CableCard that is keyed to the computer. Some do and some don't. I've finally found something good about Charter:-)) No Cable cards. So you're saying that they provide some way to record HD premium content Ah, no. that's not what I'm saying. They don't use cards or STBs. The digital feeds right into your cable ready TV set unless you have a tV that doesn't and then you do need a STB. Geez, you're talking about analog cable which has no high definition capability whatsoever. DRM is not an issue with standard definition, even with an STB. Only applies to high definition. I'm well aware of that. The statement was made earlier in the thread that cable was required to carry both the analog and digital in the basic package and they do not do that here. Only analog is in the basic package. With Charter it's not a matter of codes on a STB, they have to come out and change the filter(s) at the pole so you can receive that block of signals. on your computer without a Cable Card? Care to tell us how you connect your computer to their system? I have not tried to connect which would be a waste of time as the only signals coming into our house are basic analog and the only reason we get those is the package with high speed internet is relatively inexpensive. I see. So you have no experience at all with the use of a computer as a DVR. Didn't say that either as it wasn't the original question. I have one of the computers out in the shop set up to record HDTV OTA as well as SD digital from the satellite via S-video. It uses the MSI tuner and capture card. For OTA, or cable it will take digital or analog, SD or HD, time shift, and do most of the things TVio will do. I also records and plays back HD) It includes a schedule as well although the free schedule isn't nearly as elaborate as the one to which you can subscribe.. What it will not do is take a HDMI input that is HDCP compliant. I've found several capture cards listed that do, but so far I've not found any one who has them. Whether those cards will still permit tecording HD remains to be seen. They are basic and commercial and run from the basic card at $250 USD with the commercial starting at $1000 and going to something like $2500 as I recall. -- Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#69
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
Roger wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:41:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: Roger wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:04:50 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: Roger wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:14:56 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: SoCalCommie wrote: But they have to let me know when they're coming. I have to let them in and I can restrict their access to their ****. Right? (And, generally, they're not the best and the brightest anyway!) Yeah, but "their ****" includes the CableCard that is keyed to the computer. Some do and some don't. I've finally found something good about Charter:-)) No Cable cards. So you're saying that they provide some way to record HD premium content Ah, no. that's not what I'm saying. They don't use cards or STBs. The digital feeds right into your cable ready TV set unless you have a tV that doesn't and then you do need a STB. Geez, you're talking about analog cable which has no high definition capability whatsoever. DRM is not an issue with standard definition, even with an STB. Only applies to high definition. I'm well aware of that. The statement was made earlier in the thread that cable was required to carry both the analog and digital in the basic package and they do not do that here. Only analog is in the basic package. With Charter it's not a matter of codes on a STB, they have to come out and change the filter(s) at the pole so you can receive that block of signals. You're confusing analog cable with analog outputs. There is no requirement that any cable company discontinue their analog service, which is different from transmitting analog channels via their digital service. They are required to carry the digital channels in addition to the analog channels, but they are not required to break your door down and force you to accept a device that allows you to view the digital channels. That doesn't mean that they are not there on the cable or that if you ask them to enable them they will refuse to do so. on your computer without a Cable Card? Care to tell us how you connect your computer to their system? I have not tried to connect which would be a waste of time as the only signals coming into our house are basic analog and the only reason we get those is the package with high speed internet is relatively inexpensive. I see. So you have no experience at all with the use of a computer as a DVR. Didn't say that either as it wasn't the original question. I have one of the computers out in the shop set up to record HDTV OTA as well as SD digital from the satellite via S-video. It uses the MSI tuner and capture card. For OTA, or cable it will take digital or analog, SD or HD, time shift, and do most of the things TVio will do. I also records and plays back HD) It includes a schedule as well although the free schedule isn't nearly as elaborate as the one to which you can subscribe.. If your MSI tuner can capture QAM, then you might find it an interesting exercise to plug the cable into it and see if it sees anything. What it will not do is take a HDMI input that is HDCP compliant. I've found several capture cards listed that do, but so far I've not found any one who has them. Whether those cards will still permit tecording HD remains to be seen. They are basic and commercial and run from the basic card at $250 USD with the commercial starting at $1000 and going to something like $2500 as I recall. Whether they allow recording is entirely up to the cable provider. If the cable box is not set up to require HDCP handshake on the HDMI output then you can record from it, if it is so set up then you still won't have a chance of recording from it unless your board is part of a certified machine. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#70
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Justification for DirectX 10 and Vista (was Looking for a "pretty good" PCI-E video card)
I've got a cheap Visioneer 5800 USB scanner that's classified as "End of
Life" and has no drivers for Vista, but I am using the XP drivers and it's working just fine after a little bit of work to get the scanner to install. "Roger" wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:04:54 GMT, "Slap" wrote: "linux57" wrote in message ... I'm interested in some justification for getting upgrades that require this level of performance. For most applications / home PCs, nobody has shown that there is any justification for DirectX 10 or Vista. My personal opinion (and this is my field), there is no real justification outside of security for the home PC. Huh? Put a naked girl in the desert and a couple guys will show up. Build a road, well many more will show up. What's she look like and which desert...(coordinates will do) In a while... less than year methinks all new games, programs, etc will use Vista, DX10 etc. The road has been built, just waiting for the traffic. Although I do agree with you...mostly...:-)) "I think" (which means I really don't know for sure) that most applications will continue to run quite nicely on XP Pro and DX9. I also think *most* applications will be happy with DX 9 for some time to come. I emphasized the most as it certainly will not be all. There are many DX9 cards currently running on Vista (they reportedly sold 90 million copies the first month) and few except the diehard gamers will have the 8800 GTX and GTS cards which are the only ones at present that are DX10 compliant. So the rest including the new computers that are preloaded will still have DX-9 hardware. Justification is a relative term or at least I put it about a step above rationalization. ( usually use the rationalization to create the justification) Where one person is going to say Vista is a "must have" another may say "it'd be nice" to another who would say "I should be able to get along nicely on XP Pro and DX-9". "For me" the only real justification I can see "near term" is the added security with Vista that most users could have had with a properly configured installation of XP Pro behind a firewall. Longer term I am going to want DX10 on at least one "state-of-the-art" machine as that's what it takes to run FSX. (I hope they fix the code in that to work with multi core and share the load with the GPU) The other four machines will *probably* stay as XP Pro until what ever comes out after Vista, or will end up as LINUX machines. They also say Vista is more stable than XP but I've never had a stability problem with XP on 4 machines (recently went to 5) I do a lot of photo editing and one machine is pretty much a multimedia center. it'll be a while before either of those go Vista due to the DRM/premium content and HDCP compliant component availability. When I can play HD DVDs (which ever mode) and use my computer as a high definition equivalent of TvIO, or my 922 receiver then those machines *Might* get changed over. The only real drawback I see for the end user is DRM while I view WGA with mixed emotions as it has both its good and bad sides. OTOH if you are running XP you *WILL* be running WGA if auto updates are enabled. It's on two of the five machines and has not created any problems so far other than the one machine got confused when trying to install it and it took three tires before it'd work correctly. With the installed base of XP out there, it's likely that "for the home user" there is really very little valid justification, or gain to be had by upgrading to vista. IOW, it'd be a very rare home user that would gain anything (or see any difference other than eye candy) by upgrading. So except for a very small percent, the home users could stay with XP and never even notice there was a Vista. OTOH if it had the security most home users could still get by with 98SE. Surfing the Internet and e-mail take very little power. Word processors have become quite bloated. As I work with web pages I think they should ban Front page and Word's ability to convert a doc to HTML. Those two add new meaning to the words "bloat code". One other question comes to mind: How many of the home users have the hardware that would work with Vista without requiring some updating. Some older printers and scanners may create some problems even with the generic drivers available. I'm not so sure I can get a Vista driver for my Nikon LS5000ED scanner which is one of the higher end scanners. Particularly as there is less and less call for scanners with cameras going digital. The home user base *will* eventually migrate to Vista as they replace their old machines with new ones that come preloaded with OS and Apps which would certainly be the safest route. How fast this will happen,or how many will migrate before the next OS is out is any one's guess. There are a LOT of Win 98 and 98SE machines still out there that don't have the horsepower to run XP and Office let alone Vista or the latest version of office, and multimedia apps. OTOH The rest of us might have a *LOT* to gain by the average home user having an OS that enforces the security, that they can't seem to be bothered with at present. I would be nice to see those millions of zombies go away. Still, with the statement that the *NEXT* OS is only a couple years away (I think 09 was listed) Vista may not be much more than an interim OS between XP and what ever comes next. It is an evolutionary step that is pretty much like XP with the security (control of what the user can do) wrapped around the Kernel, plus a few extra features. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
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