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  #51  
Old January 6th 05, 01:58 AM
String
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I regret you have come to that assumption.
I have not promoted or recommend ANY! products whatsoever, simply a caution
to check products for quality before you part with your hard earned money
and not to take an over zealous persons word on some cheap junk being all
info you need.
TTFN


"Bonj" wrote in message ...
You're not an IT person, you're a salesman!

"String" wrote in message
newsoUCd.32239$nN6.19123@edtnps84...
Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause
of undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will
not find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I
also instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for
PS and Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher
turnover. The number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20%
or more is fake (the Inquire or register last year).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/182427.cms
Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those ****
poor crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will
have a new name next week..
An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
power supplies as quality with low labour.
You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.

Good luck Wes,


"Wes Newell" wrote in message
newsan.2005.01.05.09.22.29.89637@TAKEOUTverizon. net...
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:40:08 +0000, String wrote:

Reminds me of the people who smoke and use the few examples of people
who
smoke and live to old age BUT the grave yard is full of those that make
the bulk of smokers who did not.

Not even close to what i said. I said the majority, somewhere between
90-95% of the hundreds of inexpensive PSU's I've used run 5 years or
more.
The one I put in the company server in about 1995 is still running. It
cost about $20 then.

Cheap power supplies have a **** poor success rate but you have one
that's a miracle magic ones deifying average you think its something
to
promote to everyone.

I don't know where you get your success rate figures from, but I know
where mine come from, and the PSU works just as good as the expensive
ones. Granted I don't run extensive test to see if they actually put out
100% of their ratings, but I don't care about that. At under $20 a pop
they work, and work well enough for any system I've built. If they
didn't,
I wouldn't use them in my machine and certainly not in machines we sell
and maintain at customers sites, since failures cost way more money in
time than than the price of an expensive PSU.

I was hired by a local shop to manage their tech shop, the money coming
in was not equaling salaries out? I discovered the amount of power
supply failures and problems associated with the same were taking half
the day for most technicians. I instituted a NO cheap power supplies
sold as stand alone or in cases. Those problems disappeared almost
instantly freeing up our technicians to make money not diagnose $20
poor
power supplies. Buy cheap buy twice, sell cheep pay too many
technicians. (Ram as well) You stubbornly stick to promoting junk and
if
you made computers for my clients insisting using those **** poor power
supplies you would not work for me.

There's many reasons reasons you may have had so many failures. And if
it
took one of the techs I supervise a half a day to replace a PSU, he'd be
looking for another job fast. Most PSU's can be changed in a matter of
mintues. Certainly less than 30, not counting travel time. The failure
rates you found could just as easily be contributed to the wrong size
PSU
ion the first place. I've seen this problem many times. I'll be the
first
to admit that cheap PSU's *may* be over rated. Simply buy one with that
in mind and you should be fine. And don't worry, I'm not looking for a
job.

So I gather you don't like cheap ram either? That's all I use too.:-) A
60ns ram chip is a 60ns ram chip. Doesn't matter who's circuit board you
stick it on as long as the ram is the same PN. I can see you waste a lot
of money, so you would most definately not work for me, at least not for
long. Want to know what I know about ram? I used to design, manufacture
and sell ram upgrades. yep, I designed them, layed them out, had the
boards manufactured, assembled, and distributed. So BS all the other
people you want. I know better.

Thought ? Do you work for the generic power supply consortium?

Nope, I don't work at all any more. Now don't get me wrong, there are
some
trashy PSU's out there. I bought 20 old AT PSU's for $2 each. They even
looked trashy. And they had a 20% failure rate within a few months. I
know
the others were still going after a couple of years. Needless to say, no
more were purchased. But the majoirty of cheap psu's ( just not that
cheap) work fine.

I wish you continued success with your power supplies, Eyes Open

Luck has nothing to do with it, but thanks.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm







  #52  
Old January 6th 05, 03:19 AM
Mitch Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Bonj" wrote in :

Well I haven't gone for any '$' cooling kit in the end, but I've heard
more sound advice telling me that there shouldn't be anything wrong
with a cheap power supply, than I have heard bad advice telling me to
steer clear from it... but cheers anyway.


Ok. Good luck with that. Oh, and don't wear seatbelts. You're better off
being thrown clear of the accident.

  #53  
Old January 6th 05, 04:03 AM
Mac Cool
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bonj:

No, you infer, I imply, but I wasn't implying anything. I don't know
if changing the power supply fixed his problem or not, I was
relating an experience about temperature.


Yes, but that wasn't the subject, PSUs was... the original subject
was supposed to be fans, but since you just mention temperature in
general and just imply that it's due to the power supply without any
mention of fans, but then renege that you said that when challenged,
suggests that this experience of yours is completely irrelevent...


I won't waste energy bickering with you. You asked for advice and received
advice. Presumably you have your own money to spend and the final
decisions and consequences of, will be yours.
--
Mac Cool
  #54  
Old January 6th 05, 05:55 AM
Wes Newell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:49:01 +0000, Mac Cool wrote:

Wes Newell:
i'm just here to state for a fact that out of the hundreds of cheap
PSU's I've used the failure rates were no different than the expensive
ones.

How do you know? Facts can be proven. Prove it.


I know because I made all the computer component purchases for these
machines. And I give first hand testimony that it's true. Now you have 2
choices. Either prove I'm a liar or stick it in your ass. And yes, that
was a hostile statement. Can you tell the difference.


The burden of proof fell on you when you characterized your information as
fact.


There is no way to prove it other than my word. I could give you all the
service orders for every one of our customers (bring a semi) and let you
go through them for PSU replacements. But then you could claim I didn't
give you all of them. So what you get is sworned testimony that it is
fact, and contrary to what you think, you must prove otherwise. You could
have very well driven to the store last night and window shopped. Prove
it. Get the point of what you are asking. get real.


I also want to point out that 'cheap' is really the wrong word, cheap is
relative. There are inexpensive power supplies that are good quality.
The generic PS are the ones that you should beware of, that are pumped
out of factories from god knows where and the 'brand' may only exist for
a production run. --
Mac Cool


Yep, there's probably some crap ones out there, and there's probably some
crap expensive ones out there too.:-)

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  #55  
Old January 6th 05, 06:02 AM
Mitch Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wes Newell wrote in
newsan.2005.01.06.04.57.49.896934@TAKEOUTverizon .net:

Yep, there's probably some crap ones out there, and there's probably some
crap expensive ones out there too.:-)


There no profit in crap expensive ones unless maybe you built a reputation
making good ones first so people would pay more due to your great
reputation as a quality manufacturer and then you flooded the market with
crap. That wouldn't be a very smart business plan, though.

On the other hand, if you make some cheap crap people will buy it just
because it's cheap. And since there's no reputation to build (other than a
bad one) you can just keep changing your name.

  #56  
Old January 8th 05, 02:58 AM
Bonj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Was joking.


String wrote:
I regret you have come to that assumption.
I have not promoted or recommend ANY! products whatsoever, simply a caution
to check products for quality before you part with your hard earned money
and not to take an over zealous persons word on some cheap junk being all
info you need.
TTFN


"Bonj" wrote in message ...

You're not an IT person, you're a salesman!

"String" wrote in message
newsoUCd.32239$nN6.19123@edtnps84...

Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause
of undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will
not find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I
also instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for
PS and Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher
turnover. The number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20%
or more is fake (the Inquire or register last year).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/182427.cms
Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those ****
poor crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will
have a new name next week..
An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
power supplies as quality with low labour.
You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.

Good luck Wes,


"Wes Newell" wrote in message
newsan.2005.01.05.09.22.29.89637@TAKEOUTveriz on.net...

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:40:08 +0000, String wrote:


Reminds me of the people who smoke and use the few examples of people
who
smoke and live to old age BUT the grave yard is full of those that make
the bulk of smokers who did not.

Not even close to what i said. I said the majority, somewhere between
90-95% of the hundreds of inexpensive PSU's I've used run 5 years or
more.
The one I put in the company server in about 1995 is still running. It
cost about $20 then.


Cheap power supplies have a **** poor success rate but you have one
that's a miracle magic ones deifying average you think its something
to
promote to everyone.

I don't know where you get your success rate figures from, but I know
where mine come from, and the PSU works just as good as the expensive
ones. Granted I don't run extensive test to see if they actually put out
100% of their ratings, but I don't care about that. At under $20 a pop
they work, and work well enough for any system I've built. If they
didn't,
I wouldn't use them in my machine and certainly not in machines we sell
and maintain at customers sites, since failures cost way more money in
time than than the price of an expensive PSU.


I was hired by a local shop to manage their tech shop, the money coming
in was not equaling salaries out? I discovered the amount of power
supply failures and problems associated with the same were taking half
the day for most technicians. I instituted a NO cheap power supplies
sold as stand alone or in cases. Those problems disappeared almost
instantly freeing up our technicians to make money not diagnose $20
poor
power supplies. Buy cheap buy twice, sell cheep pay too many
technicians. (Ram as well) You stubbornly stick to promoting junk and
if
you made computers for my clients insisting using those **** poor power
supplies you would not work for me.

There's many reasons reasons you may have had so many failures. And if
it
took one of the techs I supervise a half a day to replace a PSU, he'd be
looking for another job fast. Most PSU's can be changed in a matter of
mintues. Certainly less than 30, not counting travel time. The failure
rates you found could just as easily be contributed to the wrong size
PSU
ion the first place. I've seen this problem many times. I'll be the
first
to admit that cheap PSU's *may* be over rated. Simply buy one with that
in mind and you should be fine. And don't worry, I'm not looking for a
job.

So I gather you don't like cheap ram either? That's all I use too.:-) A
60ns ram chip is a 60ns ram chip. Doesn't matter who's circuit board you
stick it on as long as the ram is the same PN. I can see you waste a lot
of money, so you would most definately not work for me, at least not for
long. Want to know what I know about ram? I used to design, manufacture
and sell ram upgrades. yep, I designed them, layed them out, had the
boards manufactured, assembled, and distributed. So BS all the other
people you want. I know better.


Thought ? Do you work for the generic power supply consortium?


Nope, I don't work at all any more. Now don't get me wrong, there are
some
trashy PSU's out there. I bought 20 old AT PSU's for $2 each. They even
looked trashy. And they had a 20% failure rate within a few months. I
know
the others were still going after a couple of years. Needless to say, no
more were purchased. But the majoirty of cheap psu's ( just not that
cheap) work fine.


I wish you continued success with your power supplies, Eyes Open


Luck has nothing to do with it, but thanks.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm





  #57  
Old January 8th 05, 11:40 PM
Bonj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bonj wrote:
Hello
I have ordered a AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 1.8GHz chip and an Elite K8M800-M2 Skt
754 motherboard for it, with the intention of building up a 64-bit machine
for general stuff like games, programming etc. I've also ordered a fairly
cheap (but powerful - 500W) power supply off ebuyer for it.

Apparently the chip comes with a heatsink and fan. The power supply is the
cheapest 500W one on ebuyer, but it comes with "dual fans".

Question really, is does anybody reckon I should have any worries about this
configuration, and should I be thinking about getting any extra fans/cooling
systems etc.? If so what sort, where to put them, etc.?




OK, I built it up, and it runs fine. I put one exhaust fan at the back
below the motherboard, and an intake fan at the front. I also drilled an
array of holes in the front of the case to act as an air intake grill to
maximise the effectiveness of the front fan. I built it up, and it
worked fine first time. The (cheap) PSU has got two good chunky fans,
and doesn't make too much noise. The only slight concern was that one of
the PSU's fans is sticking out it's so big, so all the wires are bunched
up against it, but I've sort of managed to ram them in between the
drives giving it a bit more space. But the BIOS claims the chip
temperature to be 41c, which is pretty good - it's using the stock
heatsink and fan.
  #58  
Old January 9th 05, 02:01 AM
Wes Newell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:40:06 +0000, Bonj wrote:

But the BIOS claims the chip temperature to be 41c, which
is pretty good - it's using the stock heatsink and fan.


Contrary to what most people think, the bios does put a considerable load
on the CPU. Check it at idle in the OS. I can reboot and watch the temps
rise from what they were with the OS running. They go up about 6-8C with
the bios running.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  #59  
Old January 10th 05, 01:35 AM
Bonj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Check it at idle in the OS


How?


  #60  
Old January 11th 05, 12:17 AM
Bonj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Unfortunately, the motherboard CD, like a bitch, doesn't work.
"Ed" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:35:42 -0000, "Bonj" wrote:

Check it at idle in the OS



How?


Check your mobo CD for health monitoring software , or download one of
the freebies like Motherboard Monitor, SpeedFan, etc...



 




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