The end of the road for the DIY PC?

In article , VanguardLH wrote:
"GMAN" wrote:

If you knew how to solder, you would know a solder wick is used to desolder

You don't know that you have to heat the solder wick so the solder flows
into it?
Of course i do, I have been doing MIL spec soldering since i was 14 years old.
Thats since 1979.

But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0 ports,
that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.

The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
replaced, not just the CPU.
--
The first requisite of a good citizen in this republic of ours is that
he shall be able and willing to pull his own weight.
Theodore Roosevelt

Bug Dout wrote:
But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0 ports,
that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.

The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
replaced, not just the CPU.

Asrock's solution from years ago, was a separate processor
module. Now, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but it gives
another idea of how to chop up hardware if required. The
FSB in that case (edge card), would be HyperTransport.
On an Intel equivalent, that might be DMI or DMI + PCIE.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/upgrad...939CPU%20Board

But you could just as easily do a BGA to PGA adapter PCB
and solder the BGA processors to that, before distribution.
PGA ZIF sockets are a pretty reliable technology, and companies
like Foxconn or Lopes could make one specifically for the purpose,
if called upon. There are plenty of ways to slice it.

http://www.murrietta.com/services_interposers.html

Paul

On 29/11/2012 5:19 PM, Paul wrote:
Bug Dout wrote:
But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0
ports,
that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.

The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
replaced, not just the CPU.

Asrock's solution from years ago, was a separate processor
module. Now, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but it gives
another idea of how to chop up hardware if required. The
FSB in that case (edge card), would be HyperTransport.
On an Intel equivalent, that might be DMI or DMI + PCIE.

They would need to come up with a standard module across multiple mobo
manufacturers.

Yousuf Khan

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:11:56 -0500, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

On 29/11/2012 5:19 PM, Paul wrote:
Bug Dout wrote:
But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0
ports,
that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.

The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
replaced, not just the CPU.

Asrock's solution from years ago, was a separate processor
module. Now, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but it gives
another idea of how to chop up hardware if required. The
FSB in that case (edge card), would be HyperTransport.
On an Intel equivalent, that might be DMI or DMI + PCIE.

They would need to come up with a standard module across multiple mobo
manufacturers.

That would be up to the CPU manufacturers (to create a
standard module) or the motherboard manufacturers.

Then the motherboards could, in theory at least, accept any
processor with the proper module connection. This would mean
the processor (the most expensive part in most systems)
could move to a newer motherboard as desired, thus saving
that immediate cost for the customer (if they wanted to keep
their current CPU). It would also mean used CPUs could be
more readily resellable (say via eBay) because each one
would be re-usable by a wide range of motherboards because
they were no longer "socket bound" to a particular
generation of motherboards that were no longer made.

There are some limitations (i.e. various N/S bridges, etc)
that may make this non-feasible over all ranges, but that is
more because companies are targeting each motherboard at a
specific range of CPUs by one manufacturer. When that
differentiation is no longer needed, motherboards become
more expensive (because they are more complex) but also
become more valuable (to the end user) because they are
usable for a longer period of time.

If the idea of a "CPU module" is considered viable, then so
is a "memory module"--for the same reason (swap out a DDR2
module for DDR3 and use the newer/bigger memory). As well as
a "card slot module" (dump PCIe-1 for PCIe-3).

Change cases to have standard-sized spots for all comm
standard (USBx, eSATAx, TBoltx, etc). Then have them all
share the same mounting bracket format--so they all fit the
same case opening. The plug within the bracket for each is
different--but all will mount into the same external case
spot (customer choice of which goes where). Which means
cases last longer because they do not become obsolete.

All of this significantly changes the market for
computers--in favor of the consumer.

On Dec 2, 11:55 am, Gerald Abrahamson wrote:

All of this significantly changes the market for
computers--in favor of the consumer.

Pipe dreams. It's all too critical a interdependency of overall
standards in balance with MPU-dependencies, accounting engineering
design and third-party chipset support. No one is interested in
dumbing it down, a few decades into the past, for stick-toy Lego plug-
in computer, one size fits all. This is rocket science, after all, or
ballistics and code-breaking as computers have heralded -- ostensibly,
aides to a new age of augmenting accountability to the miniscule --
and thereby a shifting focus available to modern man, a certain aspect
to defraying tedium for exactitudes, formerly unavailable to thought
processes.

This one size, tableted wonder for superceding, of late, is precisely
consumer oriented. Well-within expectancies and dependencies society
has adapted to a provisionary will and role science, as engineers,
accommodate as Hagel's beneficiary to the commonwealth of all. Life
is so simple and easier if in as inasmuch it's an expectancy and
behest, dare we say, granted and given down to us. There's less to
think upon, actually, to exercise will over discretionary matters not
provided, by course, from advertorial discretion provided by firms
engaged at Madison and 5th. Ave.

The inbred of proclivity. Yes, as once spoken in DOS in concurrent
unison, arise ye to the Banner of Obfuscation, the imposed upon
berated minions beneath a perspicacious consciousness of idioms for
relating to OPERANDS as directives to a machine binary language. What
little Winderz may foal this omnibus of juggernauts. As so it is now,
as the champions toll out before the PC's Death, to espouse and opine
before wris****ch computers in their curiously gawking forms of
vernacular -- B4 we find collective peace in a collective slumbering
insolence, 'R CMe UTubed, be we once more assured, and let us finally
rest -- lest these machines on desktops tax our cumulative conscious
further, and by failure last we dispose all vestige residual to model
WWW III into our own image and likeness.

--
"There must be something in books, something we can't imagine...;
there must be something there. You don't stay [in a burning house -
fl.] for nothing." -- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

geoff wrote:
The motherboard industry could cook up a flexible solution
all on their own.

... but MB manufacturers usually work from reference hardware put out by
Intel/AMD/etc. Would they be willing to produce items not covered in the
reference?

What does BGA really mean, one buys the MB/CPU as one item?

BGA = Ball Grid Array, the CPU no longer has pins to fit into a socket,
but an array of small solder balls. This is then soldered onto the mainboard.

In other words: you'll buy the CPU & mainboard as a single package.

Or does the
whole DIY concept die and the Newegg 'Computer Hardware' section disappear?

Not so fast. There are still plenty of options: graphics cards, disks,
memory, additional controllers, cases, PSUs, ...

Kind regard,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message
...
Intel has announced that they will stop making replaceable CPU's after
Haswell. From now on, all CPU's are supposed to be in BGA packaging, which
means you can only attach CPU's to the motherboard by soldiering them on.
You won't be seeing these in any home DIY's toolkit, so it's the end of
the road for that upgrade mechanism.

I've been upgrading my original system since 1987, and right now there's
no original pieces remaining on it, but I can trace each of the pieces
back in a chain to the original 8088 PC-XT clone that I had bought back
then. I suppose it was meant to happen, not many people build their own
PC's anymore, and it's been cheaper to buy a full brand-new system for
many years now rather than upgrading it.

Although this is just an Intel announcement, and AMD hasn't said it would
do the same thing, but I don't see AMD not following suit with this, it'll
help their financial situation too, and probably help them even more.

I suppose you could keep upgrading if you buy a full new motherboard
alongside your CPU, you'd probably have to buy it with new memory also.

Yousuf Khan

Well you can always put them on a daughter board (like AMD Slot x board).

I expect to see the main disk in Flash [usually] on the motherboard within
five years and certainly in a slot (e.g. M-Sata or PCIe-3)

Years ago disk controllers, I/O, video etc. all used to be on boards plugged
into the main bus. I am currently nearing ordering up the bits for a new
PC. There will not be any cards plugged in the bus.


Intel’s Haswell Could Be Last Interchangeable Desktop Microprocessors -
Report - X-bit labs
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...rs_Report.html