Epson printers - 2400 vs. 4800 ??

Arthur Entlich wrote:
Mark² wrote:

Your 1270 probably just needs a good cleaning of the cleaning station.
The purge pump may be all gummed up as well. Cleaning the cleaning
station and ink wiper can make a improvement in the cleaning cycles
as well.

Actually, there is no problem with my 1270. To the contrary, it has never
clogged in over 6 years, which is why I mentioned it in this thread.
Perhaps you missed that part...




I have
a whole storage room filled to the brim with old high-tech products.


Me too. -I just threw a bunch of it away as I cleadned the garage
yesterday.


The problem is we pretty much all have a basement/closet/room filled
with lower high tech, and eventually it's all going to be tossed, but
where? Consumers, governments and manufacturers need to work together
of reducing and eliminating this spiral.

California's lame answer to this was to start slapping people with disposal
taxes when they purchase monitors and the like. Stupid part is...they give
no indication of any particular mechanism this money creates for the actual
disposal!
That's new for ya... It may...or (more likely) may not...go to anything
related to it supposed reason for being imposed.


Anybody have a use for a dozen IBM Professional Graphics Systems?

I still had my old 386 (older stuff was long gone)....because it
still ran beautifully...with it's 4 MB or RAM (which was a lot at
the time) and 80MB hard drive. Compared with my older computers...I
bought that 386 feeling like it was an unbelievable piece of high
tech mastery! Heck...it once was just that.
I felt it might be somehow appropriate to play a soft rendition of
Taps on a bugle as I lowered it into the recyclable bin. On the
other hand...I now have that space in my garage where I can keep
OTHER dinosaurs of the technology age...until they get their own
funeral. -Mark

It saddens me to see so much "valuable" stuff get dumped. The items
were leading edge at one point, and people paid big money to be "on
top" with this stuff. The amount of money I have spent on storage
media and devices and memory, all completely obsolete now, is
sickening... I try not to think about it!


It kills me too, except that I then remind myself of all I couldn't have
done without it at the time.
It's sort of like gasoline. You can look back at all the gas you've burned
over the years...having nothing to show for it...but the alternative would
have been going nowhere all those years.
Wasted money? Nah. Really just money spent to get where we're going...both
on the road, and on the computer.

(But OK...on the other hand...it still is a little depressing!)
-Mark

Arthur Entlich wrote:
I agree that being able to remove the saturated waste ink pad unit has
some value, in fact, I advocated for this design in the consumer
models as well, since they obviously often get used well beyond one
"fill up".
I believe the pro models use a "chipped" waste ink unit, so you
basically have a similar situation as with the cartridges, you either
have to figure out a way to reset the chip, or buy a new unit from
Epson.
As to the size of the waste ink pads, you may need them that large,
especially if you have to change black ink types in that model. As
with all the wider carriage models that use ink tube delivery, when
you change the black ink type, the system purges the ink out of the
head, damper and tube. That in itself would be horrible, if it only
did that for the black head, but, at least with the other wide
carriage models, and I assume as well the 4000 model, all the ink
colors are purged at once due to the one purge pump and ganged
cleaning station. That's a LOT of ink going down the drain, so they
best have a good size waste ink holder.

But I don't have to purge anything on the 4000. It holds all three blacks
at once.
It's the 4800 that has this issue, though for many, this has been solved
using a new remedy called "phatte black" along with a RIP system that
manages to apply inks on both types of media successfully.

There is something horribly ironic about having to pay nearly the cost
of the printer (in the consumer models) or for a chipped and
non-reusable waste ink container on the larger pro models) for a part
that 1) is capturing all that wasted costly ink you bought, and 2) in
part a result of design issues in the head, capping and ink
formulation cause this need to begin with.

I don't know about cost on consumer models for the dump tank, but on the
4000, the cost of a replacement tank is barely over 2% the cost of the
printer.

-Mark

measekite wrote:
Bill Hilton wrote:

Arthur Entlich writes ...

As with all the wider carriage models that use ink tube delivery,
when you change the black ink type, the system purges the ink
out of the head, damper and tube. That in itself would be horrible,
if it only did that for the black head, but, at least with the other
wide carriage models, and I assume as well the 4000 model,
all the ink colors are purged at once due to the one purge pump
and ganged cleaning station.



Once again your ignorance of all things Epson shows ... you never
have to "change the black ink type" in the 4000 because it has both
Photo black and Matte black available at all times, switching
between them as required based on the chosen paper type. You are
confusing that model with others that only have a slot for one black
cart at a time.
That's a LOT of ink going down the drain



I've owned a 4000 for going on two years and never had to change the
waste tank ... you are confused.

Bill


HE THINKS HE IS A KNOW IT ALL AND HAS THE WANNABEES BAMBOOSELED

Why are you shouting?

Mark² wrote:
measekite wrote:

Bill Hilton wrote:


Arthur Entlich writes ...

As with all the wider carriage models that use ink tube delivery,
when you change the black ink type, the system purges the ink
out of the head, damper and tube. That in itself would be horrible,
if it only did that for the black head, but, at least with the other
wide carriage models, and I assume as well the 4000 model,
all the ink colors are purged at once due to the one purge pump
and ganged cleaning station.



Once again your ignorance of all things Epson shows ... you never
have to "change the black ink type" in the 4000 because it has both
Photo black and Matte black available at all times, switching
between them as required based on the chosen paper type. You are
confusing that model with others that only have a slot for one black
cart at a time.

That's a LOT of ink going down the drain



I've owned a 4000 for going on two years and never had to change the
waste tank ... you are confused.

Bill



HE THINKS HE IS A KNOW IT ALL AND HAS THE WANNABEES BAMBOOSELED


Why are you shouting?


Cause he's deaf and dumb!
Frank

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote

You don't need to trade one for the other

And then:

Resolution where its needed and fine tone where its needed

You mean like trading one for the other?

Whether the viewer cares or can notice, I don't care.
The trade has to be made.

We are coming at this from different angles:

Physicist: The elevator jerks, it has to or else
it can't accelerate from a standing start.
[Jerk = dA/dt, A = dV/dt, V = dX/dt]

Salesman: Our elevators don't jerk, the ride is
very smooth and you feel no jerk.

Let it rest.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Thanks for the correction Bill. I bow to your knowledge.

You may "when I get the facts wrong I'm willing to eat my words and I
got this wrong, so I apologize ...", but you will also note that no one
found it necessary to try to crucify you, or make disparaging comments
about your error. It was no big deal. We all mix up the model numbers
sometimes. Considering how many models their are, it's not a big surprise.

But you, in all your "wisdom" couldn't hold your typing fingers without
making a completely uncalled for, and statistically inaccurate statement
about me, could you?

My statement about the 4000 was incorrect, however, it is correct about
the 4800 which was what I had meant to type, and as I recall, the X600
series wide carriage, as well, which have 7 heads and cartridges. Epson
uses 8 cartridges in the 4000. They also use 8 in the 4800, 7800, 9800.
The 4000 uses CcMmYKKk, the two uppercase K's are for the photo black
and the matte black, as you state. In the 4800, one of the full blacks
is replaced with a second level of diluted black, to make a three
density black set. To accomplish that, it requires that only one full
black can be installed at any one time. So, the scenario I "painted" is
not true of the 4000, but is of numerous other Epson wide carriage
models. It is also why your waste ink container has a lower demand
placed on it.

Being "correct" is nice, but being a grown up is a WHOLE other thing,
and perhaps one day, you will actually get there.

Art

Bill Hilton wrote:

Arthur Entlich writes ...

As with all the wider carriage models that use ink tube delivery,
when you change the black ink type, the system purges the ink
out of the head, damper and tube. That in itself would be horrible,
if it only did that for the black head, but, at least with the other
wide carriage models, and I assume as well the 4000 model,
all the ink colors are purged at once due to the one purge pump
and ganged cleaning station.


Once again your ignorance of all things Epson shows ... you never have
to "change the black ink type" in the 4000 because it has both Photo
black and Matte black available at all times, switching between them as
required based on the chosen paper type. You are confusing that model
with others that only have a slot for one black cart at a time.


That's a LOT of ink going down the drain


I've owned a 4000 for going on two years and never had to change the
waste tank ... you are confused.

Bill

Arthur Entlich writes:
cartridges. Epson uses 8 cartridges in the 4000. They also use 8 in
the 4800, 7800, 9800. The 4000 uses CcMmYKKk, the two uppercase K's
are for the photo black and the matte black, as you state....

So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.

Mark² wrote:

Arthur Entlich wrote:

Mark² wrote:

Your 1270 probably just needs a good cleaning of the cleaning station.
The purge pump may be all gummed up as well. Cleaning the cleaning
station and ink wiper can make a improvement in the cleaning cycles
as well.


Actually, there is no problem with my 1270. To the contrary, it has never
clogged in over 6 years, which is why I mentioned it in this thread.
Perhaps you missed that part...



No, I saw that part, but I am not convinced that is what is keeping the
head from clogging.

Interestingly, it remains
wet...NEVER drying--even after long periods on non-use. This means that
instead of "cleaning" the head, it simply wipes goo around and ONTO the
head. Perhaps this is partly what's helped my 1270 keep from clogging
over the years...because the head can't dry out/clog when it's parked in big
mess of wet goop!

The cleaning station shouldn't be that gooped up. I'm surprised you
don't get some black streaks on the paper surface if it has any
variation in it. Your printer's waste ink pads may well be so saturated
that the ink has nowhere to flow to (not so much that it needs capillary
action or wicking, but that it needs a bit more distance to flow out of
the waste ink tube, and that distance has been reduced as the pads
become saturated.


I have
a whole storage room filled to the brim with old high-tech products.


Me too. -I just threw a bunch of it away as I cleadned the garage
yesterday.


The problem is we pretty much all have a basement/closet/room filled
with lower high tech, and eventually it's all going to be tossed, but
where? Consumers, governments and manufacturers need to work together
of reducing and eliminating this spiral.


California's lame answer to this was to start slapping people with disposal
taxes when they purchase monitors and the like. Stupid part is...they give
no indication of any particular mechanism this money creates for the actual
disposal!
That's new for ya... It may...or (more likely) may not...go to anything
related to it supposed reason for being imposed.



Alberta Canada has a similar law, but I believe the money is being
earmarked for take back, take apart and recycle programs. Up front
money isn't a bad idea, part of the cost of the product existing, is the
reduction of the product back into parts that aren't harmful to nature.

There certainly should be money earmarked to make sure the monies
collected are reinvented in recycling programs that work.


It saddens me to see so much "valuable" stuff get dumped. The items
were leading edge at one point, and people paid big money to be "on
top" with this stuff. The amount of money I have spent on storage
media and devices and memory, all completely obsolete now, is
sickening... I try not to think about it!



It kills me too, except that I then remind myself of all I couldn't have
done without it at the time.
It's sort of like gasoline. You can look back at all the gas you've burned
over the years...having nothing to show for it...but the alternative would
have been going nowhere all those years.
Wasted money? Nah. Really just money spent to get where we're going...both
on the road, and on the computer.

(But OK...on the other hand...it still is a little depressing!)
-Mark

Sometimes when I think not just about the money, but the time I spent
learning to use the cumbersome software So and hardware, I'm not sure
I'm that far ahead. Newer users have products that have less steep
learning curves, so in some ways they may catch up with those who lived
through the dark years.

Art

Paul Rubin wrote:
Arthur Entlich writes:

cartridges. Epson uses 8 cartridges in the 4000. They also use 8 in
the 4800, 7800, 9800. The 4000 uses CcMmYKKk, the two uppercase K's
are for the photo black and the matte black, as you state....


So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.

Convenience.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

Paul Rubin wrote:
Arthur Entlich writes:

cartridges. Epson uses 8 cartridges in the 4000. They also use 8 in
the 4800, 7800, 9800. The 4000 uses CcMmYKKk, the two uppercase K's
are for the photo black and the matte black, as you state....


So when all is said and done, how do these epson prints compare with
Fuji Frontier prints? I can get those done at my local walgreens for
something like 3 bucks for an 8x10. I'm wondering if there's really
any reason (other than perhaps risque shots or something like that)
for a low-volume home user to buy a photo printer.

Convenience.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com