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#31
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When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core. I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the remaining parts and nothing came up as bad. I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur. I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el' cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her system back (minus her data) with a better power supply. "w_tom" wrote in message ... Here is the reason I asked about supply. Was there a power surge or was a power surge just assumed? Original power supply was cheap - often missing essential overvoltage protector circuits. If this inferior power supply suffered regulator failure, then power supply outputs excessive and destructive voltages. In a standard power supply such as the Enermax, overvoltage protector circuits would have shorted out that overvoltage. Other components inside the system would not have been damaged because overvoltage was shorted out by protector circuit - that is often missing in cheap power supplies. Maybe there was no power surge. Damage was simply created by a human who did not know to get a supply with essential functions such as that overvoltage protector. IOW supply was purchased only on price; not using specifications. Therefore the supply failed and took out that long list of computer components. Many of the damaged components are typical of a power supply sold with a good price and no specifications. Only component not damaged that I would have expected damage to was RAM. Power supply would destroy disk drives but not CPU. IOW that above entire discussion may have been irrelevant because system was not damaged by a surge. System was damaged by human who did not know how to buy a power supply. Such defective supplies are widespread; even sold in CompUSA. David LeBrun wrote: Not sure...but I'm told it was a cheap one...and was replaced with an Enermax 300W I don't know if the PSU was replaced before the rest of the damage occured or if it all happened at the same time. I have been following along with the discussion but most of what you and Vanguard have been exchanging is beyond me. Dave. "w_tom" wrote in message ... Looking back on your original list of damaged components, I notice PSU was damaged. What type of PSU was this? What / where are specifications for this PSU? |
#32
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On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:38:46 GMT, "David LeBrun"
wrote: When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core. I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the remaining parts and nothing came up as bad. I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur. I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el' cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her system back (minus her data) with a better power supply. It probably was a power surge, the core on a sound card doesn't generally do that from any kind of power supply failure or incorrect voltage switch, etc, etc. Dave |
#33
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It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates
mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge. Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda forgot to mention that part. That list of failed components is consistent with power supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30 years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply states overvoltage protection - with numbers: http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on price verses power supply bought on value. Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite specifications because they are not selling to those who want essential power supply functions. List of damaged components is consistent with a power supply that did not have overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price. David LeBrun wrote: When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core. I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the remaining parts and nothing came up as bad. I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur. I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el' cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her system back (minus her data) with a better power supply. |
#34
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I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable broadband
provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA! So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service, or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading through all the links you provided (had to do some house restoration since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge arrestors into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found one yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up the circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box instead of inserted into a breaker slot. |
#35
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1) Your cable provider does not provide a surge protector
because they must provide surge protection. That coaxial cable is required, even by NEC standards, to be earthed before it enters the building. That earthing is required for human safety reasons. That earthing also provides surge protection. Ask them if their installation conforms to these requirements: Outer conductive shield is grounded at the building premises as close to the point of cable entrance or attachment as practicable. The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It shall have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of the outer conductor of the coaxial cable. The grounding conductor shall be as short as prcticable. In one and two family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as short as practicable, not to exceed 6.0 meters (20 feet) in length. 2) Your phone company is required by NEC standards to have installed the protector. If they said none is installed, then either the responder did not understand what is actually provided, or responder did not understand the question, or telco is violating National Electrical Code requirements. Code is quoted: From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A: A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not confined within the block containing the building served so as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground. Article 800.30B Location. The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as practical to the point of entrance. 3) Electric companies would install a 'whole house' protector behind meter. It would look like an extender ring behind meter. It would look something like this: http://www.leaintl.com/pdf/MsaCutsheet.pdf They would charge something like $5 per month for that protector. In one year, you a minimally sized 'whole house' protector could have been paid for almost 1.5 times over. Electric company would never put anything inside a breaker box. They would install a 'whole house' protector only where they have jurisdiction. Inside your breaker box is beyond their jurisdiction. They can refuse to provide service based upon what is inside that box. But they do not access or install equipment inside that box. Minimally acceptable protectors for residential AC electric are sold in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or Siemens QSA2020. Some examples of third party phone line protectors: http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm http://www.citelprotection.com/engli..._B380_B480.PDF http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm http://www.oneac.com/pdf/917116c.pdf Vanguard wrote: I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable broadband provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA! So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service, or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading through all the links you provided (had to do some house restoration since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge arrestors into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found one yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up the circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box instead of inserted into a breaker slot. |
#36
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Ok...about quality units...
One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W. Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone case...at least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another case is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good quality long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but we're talking +/-0.2v or so. I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on the newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a toss-up between these two brands for me. I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to name a few. Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I check in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of choice? When I think about what would be in a $30 unit... - you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it thinner metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a lawsuit when racking in only 30 bucks per - mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be useless otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage wiring to cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors - single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not that there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation holes/slats in these units - the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend too much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec sheet the savings "could" be applied here Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few days from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the second floor. Dave "w_tom" wrote in message ... It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge. Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda forgot to mention that part. That list of failed components is consistent with power supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30 years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply states overvoltage protection - with numbers: http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on price verses power supply bought on value. Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite specifications because they are not selling to those who want essential power supply functions. List of damaged components is consistent with a power supply that did not have overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price. David LeBrun wrote: When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core. I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the remaining parts and nothing came up as bad. I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur. I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el' cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her system back (minus her data) with a better power supply. |
#37
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Its about what is not in the $30 power supply. For example,
does the computer interfere with radio reception? Another function that was not installed would be a line filter. Up front and first provided: no long list of specifications, then it is probably missing essential functions to increase profit; customer be damned. Specs have been seen for Enermax and Antec supplies. Where are the specifications for that AOpen or, say, a Deer supply? Specs are provided even though less than 1% of consumers really know what specs mean. However without those specs, then the 1% cannot identify the failures of that manufacturers products to the other 99%. Tom's Hardware demonstrated another problem with many discount power supplies: http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/0...021/index.html But then outputs of any power supply can be shorted, power applied, and nothing destructive happens. No fuse should even blow. That is even what all minimally acceptable supplies must do. There is little to nothing visible that determines a quality supply. Secret ingredients are already in the batter; not visible to a human eye. Above are just some examples of how to really identify a minimally acceptable supply. But first on that list - no specs, then no quality. David LeBrun wrote: Ok...about quality units... One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W. Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone case...at least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another case is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good quality long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but we're talking +/-0.2v or so. I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on the newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a toss-up between these two brands for me. I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to name a few. Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I check in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of choice? When I think about what would be in a $30 unit... - you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it thinner metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a lawsuit when racking in only 30 bucks per - mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be useless otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage wiring to cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors - single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not that there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation holes/slats in these units - the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend too much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec sheet the savings "could" be applied here Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few days from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the second floor. Dave "w_tom" wrote in message ... It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge. Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda forgot to mention that part. That list of failed components is consistent with power supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30 years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply states overvoltage protection - with numbers: http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on price verses power supply bought on value. Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite specifications because they are not selling to those who want essential power supply functions. List of damaged components is consistent with a power supply that did not have overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price. David LeBrun wrote: When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core. I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the remaining parts and nothing came up as bad. I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur. I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el' cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her system back (minus her data) with a better power supply. |
#38
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I just looked around at the stuff in the basement.
There is a thick heavy guage wire running from the main AC switch to the water main about 6' away. This is the house ground...correct? I tried to see what was behind the meter looking for a "extender ring" but since the meter is round I don't know whats part of the actual meter and whats not. The telephone box (where all the separate jacks are connected) has 3 wires...2 are for the signal and the third I assume is the ground (old wiring which does not use all 4 signal wires). The "plate" that its all hooked up on has a big black knob in the center of it. Don't have the faintest what it is but it looks ancient...maybe a fuse? The ground wire (or what ever it is) is also ancient looking and after digging through the rafters I found it isn't connected to anything. If this is supposed to be a ground line...could I just hook it up the AC ground at the water main (which is very close)? As for the cable...it comes in from the pole at the back of the property to a plate on the side of the house then continues into the house (on a separate run of coax). This plate has a wire running into the ground but I don't know how deep. I also ran a copper ground wire from the satellite dish to this plate. These types of things I'm a complete newbie with. Hooking up a new phone line or cable to another room is one thing but I don't touch the mains box. Been zapped once and DO NOT want to experience that sensation again!! I know its not easy without seeing but what do you think of this setup? Improvements needed? Dave "w_tom" wrote in message ... 1) Your cable provider does not provide a surge protector because they must provide surge protection. That coaxial cable is required, even by NEC standards, to be earthed before it enters the building. That earthing is required for human safety reasons. That earthing also provides surge protection. Ask them if their installation conforms to these requirements: Outer conductive shield is grounded at the building premises as close to the point of cable entrance or attachment as practicable. The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It shall have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of the outer conductor of the coaxial cable. The grounding conductor shall be as short as prcticable. In one and two family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as short as practicable, not to exceed 6.0 meters (20 feet) in length. 2) Your phone company is required by NEC standards to have installed the protector. If they said none is installed, then either the responder did not understand what is actually provided, or responder did not understand the question, or telco is violating National Electrical Code requirements. Code is quoted: From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A: A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not confined within the block containing the building served so as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground. Article 800.30B Location. The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as practical to the point of entrance. 3) Electric companies would install a 'whole house' protector behind meter. It would look like an extender ring behind meter. It would look something like this: http://www.leaintl.com/pdf/MsaCutsheet.pdf They would charge something like $5 per month for that protector. In one year, you a minimally sized 'whole house' protector could have been paid for almost 1.5 times over. Electric company would never put anything inside a breaker box. They would install a 'whole house' protector only where they have jurisdiction. Inside your breaker box is beyond their jurisdiction. They can refuse to provide service based upon what is inside that box. But they do not access or install equipment inside that box. Minimally acceptable protectors for residential AC electric are sold in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or Siemens QSA2020. Some examples of third party phone line protectors: http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm http://www.citelprotection.com/engli.../data_line_pro tection/B280_B380_B480.PDF http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm http://www.oneac.com/pdf/917116c.pdf Vanguard wrote: I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable broadband provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA! So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service, or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading through all the links you provided (had to do some house restoration since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge arrestors into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found one yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up the circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box instead of inserted into a breaker slot. |
#39
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I guess I should say that I'm in Canada...judging by all the UK links
provided I assume the regulations quoted are also UK and probably different here. "w_tom" wrote in message ... 1) Your cable provider does not provide a surge protector because they must provide surge protection. That coaxial cable is required, even by NEC standards, to be earthed before it enters the building. That earthing is required for human safety reasons. That earthing also provides surge protection. Ask them if their installation conforms to these requirements: Outer conductive shield is grounded at the building premises as close to the point of cable entrance or attachment as practicable. The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It shall have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of the outer conductor of the coaxial cable. The grounding conductor shall be as short as prcticable. In one and two family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as short as practicable, not to exceed 6.0 meters (20 feet) in length. 2) Your phone company is required by NEC standards to have installed the protector. If they said none is installed, then either the responder did not understand what is actually provided, or responder did not understand the question, or telco is violating National Electrical Code requirements. Code is quoted: From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A: A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not confined within the block containing the building served so as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground. Article 800.30B Location. The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as practical to the point of entrance. 3) Electric companies would install a 'whole house' protector behind meter. It would look like an extender ring behind meter. It would look something like this: http://www.leaintl.com/pdf/MsaCutsheet.pdf They would charge something like $5 per month for that protector. In one year, you a minimally sized 'whole house' protector could have been paid for almost 1.5 times over. Electric company would never put anything inside a breaker box. They would install a 'whole house' protector only where they have jurisdiction. Inside your breaker box is beyond their jurisdiction. They can refuse to provide service based upon what is inside that box. But they do not access or install equipment inside that box. Minimally acceptable protectors for residential AC electric are sold in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or Siemens QSA2020. Some examples of third party phone line protectors: http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm http://www.citelprotection.com/engli.../data_line_pro tection/B280_B380_B480.PDF http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm http://www.oneac.com/pdf/917116c.pdf Vanguard wrote: I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable broadband provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA! So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service, or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading through all the links you provided (had to do some house restoration since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge arrestors into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found one yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up the circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box instead of inserted into a breaker slot. |
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:54:29 GMT, "David LeBrun"
wrote: Ok...about quality units... One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W. Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone case...at least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another case is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good quality long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but we're talking +/-0.2v or so. The Antec is a better power supply, due to being more accurately rated. The Enermax is fine if you consider it at roughly 75% of it's rating, that is, if you want a ~300W power supply you need a 430W Enermax. That's the catch with Enermax... they start putting $ into eye-candy before the inside = label. I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on the newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a toss-up between these two brands for me. It's actually more of a marketing-feature than anything else... in some circumstances it's actually better to have the ability to draw 3V & 5V from the same source, like when one or the other rails has particularly high load. Regardless, the no-load situation merely means it has internal load resisitors, so in everyday use it runs slightly hotter and wastes energy. It may somewhat reduce RMA and allow it to more easily be used on a bench, but minimum load of any standard power supply is easily met once attached to a *normal* system. I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to name a few. Kingwin is similar to Enermax in that the level of eye-candy exceeds the interior quality, but Kingwin is overall lower quality, particularly in their lower wattage models. Thermaltake is about average quality, also known as Highpower or Enlight, made by Sirtec. They are a fine choice and good value considering they're lower-cost per wattage, but a notch below an Antec. Zalman are in the same category, but overpriced for little more than a quiet fan or more conservative fan throttling (which shouldn't change cost at all). AOpen is Sparkle/Fortron relabel, a good value and good construction, about equal to Enermax in the OEM versions, closer to Antec in the retail. In general these Sparkle/Fortron power supplies are the best value (unless something else is on sale) but for a high-end, high power consumption system I'd recommend the 400W, as it's a significant step up from 350W, moreso than 350W from 300W. Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I check in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of choice? Most power supplies of decent quality bear the manufacturer's name on the label. Beware of those that don't. Large volume manufacturers of power supplies used in OEM and workstations, servers, have high-end power supplies and components bought at high-volume, manufacturered in high volume, and lower cost per unit. Delta, Antec, & Sparkle are the best bets for getting not only a decent power supply, but a fair price for it (though recently the Antec Truepowers have seen a disproportionate increase in price compared to the competition). Also consider "PC Power& Cooling", which are usually overpriced but very good and may be a great deal when on sale. When I think about what would be in a $30 unit... - you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it thinner metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a lawsuit when racking in only 30 bucks per - mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be useless otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage wiring to cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors Cost cannot be the only deciding factor. There is a large difference (in favor of Sparkle) when comparing a Sparkle $30 power supply to a generic. There's a greater difference than merely thinner wires or metal casing... a few of the other differences were mentioned by w_tom. Gold plated connectors aren't needed except perhaps in a marine environment or outdoors, where corrosion occurs at much higher rate. - single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not that there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation holes/slats in these units The quietest power supplies often use a sleeve bearing fan for the slight noise reduction, but it does compromise lifespan... the fan is often the first part to fail. Don't think junk power supplies only have one fan though, the low-quality generics may have (and some do) have two fans... the closer they mimic a decent power supply, the more likely they can get away with charging similar prices, just a little less expensive to entice purchase. There are plenty of good single-fan power supplies, but also many fans labeled as ball-bearing when it's a 1 ball, 1 sleeve bearing, which IMHO is the worst possible alternative because an all-sleeve bearing can easily be relubricated if there isn't a stamped-in-metal fan grill, but relubing a ball + sleeve bearing fan is less successful because the degraded sleeve bearing has shed particles that get into the ball-bearing, and relubing it will cause thinner (than original) lubricant to get into the ball-bearing, making it very loud. This isn't always the case, sometimes relubing works, but in general the ball plus sleeve bearing fans are the shortest lived IF the all-sleeve bearing counterpart is of equal quality and relubed when necessary. - the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend too much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec sheet the savings "could" be applied here Corners are probably cut everywhere possible, from labor cost to manufacturing to testing, parts, warranty, support, etc. Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few days from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the second floor. Dave Warranty is nice but realistically I'd rather have a good power supply with a 30 day warranty than a junk one with 3 years... who covers the REST of the system failing? Dave |
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