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15K rpm SCSI-disk



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 2nd 04, 04:07 PM
Ronny Mandal
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Default 15K rpm SCSI-disk

Hi.

I have a question.

I am really eager to buy a Seagate Cheetah 15K rmp disk for my workstation.
The only issue is that I've heard that these disks are not suitable for
frequently power on/off, i.e. turning off the computer once or twice+ a day.
They're more suitable to be left on, in e.g. a server, and that it is
hazardous to power on/off frequently.

Is this correct?


Thanks,


Ronny Mandal


  #2  
Old November 3rd 04, 08:22 PM
Joris Dobbelsteen
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Default

Besides this these disks are way to expensive and you get much better
performance and several times the storage space by spending that money on a
RAID array.

Why you need a Cheetah 15k disk?

- Joris

"Ronny Mandal" wrote in message
...
Hi.

I have a question.

I am really eager to buy a Seagate Cheetah 15K rmp disk for my

workstation.
The only issue is that I've heard that these disks are not suitable for
frequently power on/off, i.e. turning off the computer once or twice+ a

day.
They're more suitable to be left on, in e.g. a server, and that it is
hazardous to power on/off frequently.

Is this correct?


Thanks,


Ronny Mandal




  #3  
Old November 4th 04, 09:27 AM
Ronny Mandal
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Posts: n/a
Default

In fact I do not need it, I need performance.

So you are saying that two IDE in e.g. RAID 0 wil outperform the SCSI disk
in speed, besides storgae etc?

Thanks.


Ronny Mandal

"Joris Dobbelsteen" wrote in message
...
Besides this these disks are way to expensive and you get much better
performance and several times the storage space by spending that money on
a
RAID array.

Why you need a Cheetah 15k disk?

- Joris

"Ronny Mandal" wrote in message
...
Hi.

I have a question.

I am really eager to buy a Seagate Cheetah 15K rmp disk for my

workstation.
The only issue is that I've heard that these disks are not suitable for
frequently power on/off, i.e. turning off the computer once or twice+ a

day.
They're more suitable to be left on, in e.g. a server, and that it is
hazardous to power on/off frequently.

Is this correct?


Thanks,


Ronny Mandal






  #4  
Old November 4th 04, 09:32 AM
Curious George
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:22:20 +0100, "Joris Dobbelsteen"
wrote:

Besides this these disks are way to expensive and you get much better
performance and several times the storage space by spending that money on a
RAID array.

Why you need a Cheetah 15k disk?


Compared to low-end RAID, 1 or 2 of these drives would still bring
incredible responsiveness but with much higher reliability, simplicity
of installation, maintenance, & potential troubleshooting down the
line, as well as less power consumption, heat, or potential PSU
issues.

You simply cannot compare the overall user productivity and computing
experience with 1 or 2 good enterprise quality drives to a personal
storage caliber 'array'. IMHO RAID is not worth doing without a
decent controller and disks as reliable as cheetahs - so doing it
'right' wouldn't save and money. Plus if he is planning to frequently
power cycle, RAID of any caliber is the last thing you want to
recommend (for multiple reliability-related reasons for starters).


- Joris

"Ronny Mandal" wrote in message
...
Hi.

I have a question.

I am really eager to buy a Seagate Cheetah 15K rmp disk for my

workstation.
The only issue is that I've heard that these disks are not suitable for
frequently power on/off, i.e. turning off the computer once or twice+ a

day.


modern enterprise drives should be fine power cycling a couple times
per day for several years. While personal storage devices are more
geared to this use both have a limit before affecting reliability - so
it's not ideal in either case.

They're more suitable to be left on, in e.g. a server, and that it is
hazardous to power on/off frequently.

Is this correct?


Sort of. You might also not want to go too long without powering off
these drives for relaibility reasons also.

The fluid bearing cheetahs are wonderful & have an excellent track
record. Highly reliable, durable, quiet, and extremely responsive. I
wouldn't worry too much & consider it a safe purchase you shouldn't
regret.

Any add-on controller (SCSI, SCSI RAID, ATA RAID, SATA RAID) may
affect power features and may be more of a concern (resuming power may
be delayed or poor drivers may prohibit certain power features.) So
the simpler the disk subsystem the more likely you will have success
using various convenience related features associated with turning on
the computer a few times/day.

Today's computers in general are less temperamental and susceptible to
problems from frequent power cycling but it is still not ideal. If
you have a good machine why not leave it on a good deal of the time
and have it do stuff for you or have it available to access if you
need something but are away?
  #5  
Old November 4th 04, 11:09 AM
kony
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Default

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:27:49 +0100, "Ronny Mandal"
wrote:

In fact I do not need it, I need performance.

So you are saying that two IDE in e.g. RAID 0 wil outperform the SCSI disk
in speed, besides storgae etc?


Speed at what, specifically? Will there be a lot of
multiple simultaneous I/O or a lot of random access like
with running OS or large database work or need for highest
sustained throughput? (pick one)

Will your work involve different source and destination
files of fair size like with video editing?

I wouldn't worry about power or heat too much. Well, they
are concerns but all that need be done is to have adequate
airflow and power, as with any other configuration.

Spin-up frequency effects all drives, not just the SCSI you
mention. For maximum life they should be kept spinning,
there is nothing unique about the mentioned drive that would
make it more (or less) problematic to turn system off or let
it sleep. Well, perhaps slightly worse for a higher RPM
drive, having higher stress to spin-up to higher RPM, but
relatively speaking the stress of that will impact any
drive.
  #6  
Old November 4th 04, 07:42 PM
Hamman
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Default


"Ronny Mandal" wrote in message
...
Hi.

I have a question.

I am really eager to buy a Seagate Cheetah 15K rmp disk for my
workstation. The only issue is that I've heard that these disks are not
suitable for frequently power on/off, i.e. turning off the computer once
or twice+ a day. They're more suitable to be left on, in e.g. a server,
and that it is hazardous to power on/off frequently.

Is this correct?

High RPM SCSI disks sound like ****e when powering up, so i would assume
that they dont like it too much.

hamman


  #7  
Old November 5th 04, 12:17 AM
Curious George
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Default

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:42:45 -0000, "Hamman" wrote:

High RPM SCSI disks sound like ****e when powering up, so i would assume
that they dont like it too much.

hamman


Depends on the drive. Earlier drives like the IBM Ultrastar 36Z15
tend to sound pretty crappy. Seagate's fluid dynamic bearing motors
like in the X15-36LP or more current 15K.3 are very quiet and very
nice to work with. While many 10k or 15k drive tend to exhibit a
temporary faint high pitched sound during power-up, my understanding
is the reliability issue has to do with wear related to the head
parking in the landing zone and not the motor per se.
  #8  
Old November 5th 04, 10:00 AM
Ronny Mandal
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Default

Hmm.

Fast access to files, short response times, fast copying - just some luxury
issues.

And the I tend to power up in the morning, approx. 6:am and power down at
about 22:30 ++

Ronny Mandal


"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:27:49 +0100, "Ronny Mandal"
wrote:

In fact I do not need it, I need performance.

So you are saying that two IDE in e.g. RAID 0 wil outperform the SCSI disk
in speed, besides storgae etc?


Speed at what, specifically? Will there be a lot of
multiple simultaneous I/O or a lot of random access like
with running OS or large database work or need for highest
sustained throughput? (pick one)

Will your work involve different source and destination
files of fair size like with video editing?

I wouldn't worry about power or heat too much. Well, they
are concerns but all that need be done is to have adequate
airflow and power, as with any other configuration.

Spin-up frequency effects all drives, not just the SCSI you
mention. For maximum life they should be kept spinning,
there is nothing unique about the mentioned drive that would
make it more (or less) problematic to turn system off or let
it sleep. Well, perhaps slightly worse for a higher RPM
drive, having higher stress to spin-up to higher RPM, but
relatively speaking the stress of that will impact any
drive.



  #9  
Old November 5th 04, 11:44 AM
kony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:00:42 +0100, "Ronny Mandal"
wrote:

Hmm.

Fast access to files, short response times, fast copying - just some luxury
issues.

And the I tend to power up in the morning, approx. 6:am and power down at
about 22:30 ++

Ronny Mandal


The 15K SCSI drive will be of more benefit than a pair of
typical ATA in RAID0. A good cost-effective compromise
(particularly if you don't have a decent SCSI controller
already) would be an SATA Western Digital Raptor 74GB, or a
pair of them... ideally the OS, applications, and the data
files would be on different drives.

Powering on once a day seems reasonable enough for any
drive. Either way the best course of action is still to
make regular backups.



  #10  
Old November 5th 04, 04:00 PM
Ronny Mandal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:00:42 +0100, "Ronny Mandal"
wrote:

Hmm.

Fast access to files, short response times, fast copying - just some
luxury
issues.

And the I tend to power up in the morning, approx. 6:am and power down at
about 22:30 ++

Ronny Mandal


The 15K SCSI drive will be of more benefit than a pair of
typical ATA in RAID0. A good cost-effective compromise
(particularly if you don't have a decent SCSI controller
already) would be an SATA Western Digital Raptor 74GB, or a
pair of them... ideally the OS, applications, and the data
files would be on different drives.

Powering on once a day seems reasonable enough for any
drive. Either way the best course of action is still to
make regular backups.


--

Thanks for the advice.

I'll consider a stripe-set of WDC Raptor 10K or the Seagate Cheetah 15K.



Regards,

Ronny Mandal


 




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