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"John" said in news:FiD%b.10213$UU.7111@lakeread01:
I have a weird boot problem. I have 2 hard drives. And I have verified the jumper settings and they are correct. If I have just one hard drive connected, it boots fine. If I have two hard drives conneted at the same time it doesnt boot. It gives a disk boot error. Now the strange part. If I have a bootable cd in the cd rom but it does not boot from it, it will boot from my hd with out any problems. Any idea on what could be causing this? Thanks! Some things to check (don't know if all apply to your problem): - If using ATA-66 or faster hard drives, are you using an 80-wire/40-pin cable to connect them, or are you using an older 40-wire/40-pin cable? The CD-ROM drive can still use the old 40-wire/40-pin cable since it goes only to ATA-33, but you'll need to use the 80-wire/40-pin cables for ATA-66/100/133 hard drives. - If you are jumpering the hard drives to be master or slave, are you using a ribbon cable that does NOT have a tiny piece of wire (I think it is for signal line #34) punched out? If you look close to the end connector on the cable (I think it's at the end you connect to the motherboard), see if there is a 1/4" section or so of the ribbon cable that looks like it has been punched out (so a small piece of the wire for that signal line is gone). If so, you are using a cable-select ribbon cable and need to configure your hard drives to use cable select rather than use the master/slave settings. I prefer to manually configure the master/slave relationship of my drives so I don't use cable-select ribbon cables. For pre-fab computers built in an assembly line, they don't want to waste time figuring out how to jumper the drives so they leave them all configured for cable select and then use a cable-select modified ribbon cable. - Or, do you want to use cable select (which means ALL drives whether for hard drives or CD-type drives are configured to use cable select AND you use a cable-select cable)? If so, are the hard drives from the same manufacturer? I've had problems in the past (but not recently) where even using a master/slave setup with a Western Digital as master and with a Seagate as slave wouldn't work. IDE means integrated device electronics (i.e., the drive controller has been moved onto the drive). The master drive has to wait until it gets a signal from the slave that the slave is ready and then reports itself (and slave) as ready to the system. If the controllers don't communicate well, then you find a mix of brands of hard drives don't work well together. The only solution (other than wasting money to buy same-brand drives) is to attach the hard drives to different channels. Connect one hard drive (as master) to the first IDE port (IDE0) and the other hard drive (also as master) to the second IDE port (IDE1). Then both are master drives with no slave and their controllers don't have to be 100% compatibile with each other (and hopefully a CD-type drive is compatible with whatever hard drive is shared on the same IDE channel). So whether you use cable select or master/slave, it might help to put the 2 drives on separate IDE ports. - You mentioned they are jumpered correctly and yet you still have a problem using them so, to us, there's a good chance they are not jumpered correctly. You have 2 hard drives and 1 (?) CD-type drive. Are they all connected to the motherboard's IDE ports? Do some go to an IDE controller expansion card? One configuration would be to have the boot hard drive as master on IDE0 (and the only drive on that IDE channel) and on IDE1 you have the other hard drive as master and the CD-type drive as slave. But other configurations are possible. What do you have? - I don't know why having a bootable CD in the CD-type drive (but from which you do NOT boot) would "fix" the problem. But then I still don't know which hard drives are configured as master/slave or cable select, what type of ribbon cables you are using, and onto which IDE ports the hard drives and CD-type drive are connected. - Could be something in your BIOS setup. Is the drive detection configured to Auto? What's the boot sequence for which drives in what order are used for booting the system? Have you tried to clear the CMOS table (a copy of the BIOS) in case it got corrupted? I have seen where the CMOS copy of BIOS got corrupted and caused severe problems with the computer. Sometimes a CRC error gets reported but I've also seen where there was no error and clearing the CMOS (to force a new copy of the BIOS settings get written to it) would fix the problem. Remember to record any customized settings before clearing CMOS. -- __________________________________________________ __________ *** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. *** __________________________________________________ __________ |
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*Vanguard* wrote:
"John" said in news:FiD%b.10213$UU.7111@lakeread01: I have a weird boot problem. I have 2 hard drives. And I have verified the jumper settings and they are correct. If I have just one hard drive connected, it boots fine. If I have two hard drives conneted at the same time it doesnt boot. It gives a disk boot error. Now the strange part. If I have a bootable cd in the cd rom but it does not boot from it, it will boot from my hd with out any problems. Any idea on what could be causing this? Thanks! Some things to check (don't know if all apply to your problem): - If using ATA-66 or faster hard drives, are you using an 80-wire/40-pin cable to connect them, or are you using an older 40-wire/40-pin cable? The CD-ROM drive can still use the old 40-wire/40-pin cable since it goes only to ATA-33, but you'll need to use the 80-wire/40-pin cables for ATA-66/100/133 hard drives. This id correct. - If you are jumpering the hard drives to be master or slave, are you using a ribbon cable that does NOT have a tiny piece of wire (I think it is for signal line #34) punched out? If you look close to the end connector on the cable (I think it's at the end you connect to the motherboard), see if there is a 1/4" section or so of the ribbon cable that looks like it has been punched out (so a small piece of the wire for that signal line is gone). If so, you are using a cable-select ribbon cable and need to configure your hard drives to use cable select rather than use the master/slave settings. This is not true. Cable select is determined by pin 28 *not* pin 34, which is used to detect the presence of an eighty conductor cable. All 80 wire cables made to ATA spec will work either as jumper select or cable select. Some have the "cut" conductor you reference, while others achieve the same results internal to the motherboard connector. I prefer to manually configure the master/slave relationship of my drives so I don't use cable-select ribbon cables. For pre-fab computers built in an assembly line, they don't want to waste time figuring out how to jumper the drives so they leave them all configured for cable select and then use a cable-select modified ribbon cable. There is no such thing--all cables made to the ATA spec can be used. - Or, do you want to use cable select (which means ALL drives whether for hard drives or CD-type drives are configured to use cable select AND you use a cable-select cable)? See above. Virg Wall -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law |
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Boot problem
I have a weird boot problem. I have 2 hard drives. And I have verified the
jumper settings and they are correct. If I have just one hard drive connected, it boots fine. If I have two hard drives conneted at the same time it doesnt boot. It gives a disk boot error. Now the strange part. If I have a bootable cd in the cd rom but it does not boot from it, it will boot from my hd with out any problems. Any idea on what could be causing this? Thanks! |
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"V W Wall" said in :
This is not true. Cable select is determined by pin 28 *not* pin 34, I'm a little more awake than last time. You are correct. Pin 28 is for CSEL (cable select). Pin 34 is for PDIAG/CBLID. PDIAG was the original designation and CBLID was added for 80-wire detection. Pin 34 cannot be shorted to ground in the mobo otherwise every ribbon cable connected to it would look like an 80-wire ribbon cable. Pin 34 is shorted inside the blue connector (on the mobo end); see http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html. I don't have any 80-wire ribbon cables at the moment where I can see a tiny (3mm) cutout section of a wire. According to one user in these newsgroups, "The wire is cut near the motherboard end of the cable so that the drives will not "see" the ground on that pin." If you have a ribbon cable with the cutout, for which signal pin is the cutout, or is it in one of the shielding ground wires? Although it sounds great to spout specifications, what I've measured doesn't fully jive with what has often been touted in the newsgroups as the spec for 80-wire layout of signal wires (to pins) and for shielding wires (to reduce crosstalk). I had been told that the signal wires (going to the pins) were the odd numbered wires (which meant the outside wire on the striped side was for pin 1) and the even numbered wires were the shielding ground wires. When ohming out a couple of 80-wire ribbon cables, that's not what I found. For my spare 2 ribbon cables (both 80-wire/40-pin), the odd wires were the shielding grounds and the even ones were the signals (going to the pins). Then I noticed the above linked article to PC Guide says the added ground wires can be either the even or odd set of wires. I haven't ohmed out other ribbon cables to get a consensus. Great, now I don't know if the outermost striped end of the ribbon cable is for pin 1 or a shield ground. Or looking at it in reverse, pin 1 could be on wire #1 or #2. I have to test it to find out. Pin 34 did show continuity between the black and grey connectors (these go to the hard drives). So, for the drives, this line is still connected between them. This is still a requirement in 2-drive configurations as PCDIAG from the slave uses this to tell the master drive that it is ready. "PDIAG (passed diagnostics) is a signal used by drive 1 to tell drive 0 when (and if) it has passed its diagnostics following a power-up or a reset. Drive 0 uses this information to inform the system of a drive 1 failure" (according to http://www.uib.es/c-calculo/scimgs/f...Interface.html). However, neither of these had their pin 34 connected to pin 34 on the mobo connector (blue), so there is an open in the wire between the mobo and drive connectors. I could not see any cutout in the ribbon cable along the wire for pin 34, so it must be the ribbon cable is cut back on this wire so it doesn't engage the forked tooth for that pin, the cutout in the ribbon cable is just above the forked tooth so there is no wire to engage into the tooth, or the forked tooth is broken from the pin. So you might see the cutout or you might not. Also, for pin 34 to be grounded to indicate an 80-wire ribbon cable, the only way the motherboard could see that is if pin 34 actually went to a ground pin on the connector. The motherboard can only see what's on the connector pins. For the blue (mobo) connector, pin 34 showed continuity to pins 2, 22, 24, and 40 (there are more ground pins but that was enough; see http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_IDE.html for a pinout of the connector). So pin 34 (but only in the blue mobo connector) is shorted to ground. So, to summarize how pin 34 is used: - You don't know if the signal pins use the odd- or even-numbered wires. You'll have to check by ohming out the pin to see if it is connected to wire #1 or #2. For my 2 samples, pin 1 went to wire #2 (so signals were on the even-numbered wires). - For the 80-wire/40-pin cable, pin 34 on the mobo connector (blue) is disconnected from the ribbon cable. Pin 34 on the drive connectors (grey and black) are connected. You may see a cutout in the ribbon cable, you might not. I've never seen a cutout in any of my 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables. - Pin 34 on the pin side (only to the mobo) of the blue connector is shorted to ground. Me: I don't use cable-select ribbon cables. V W Wall: There is no such thing--all cables made to the ATA spec can be used. "To use cable select, both devices on the channel are set to the "cable select" (CS) setting, usually by a special jumper. Then, a special cable is used." "On a cable select cable, one of the connectors (the "master connector") has pin #28 connected through to the cable, but the other (the "slave connector") has an open circuit on that pin (no connection)." This according to http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_CS.htm. You don't use "special" cables for standard installations. I had heard of cable select cables but never bothered to use them or even investigate into them because I always want to determine which drive is slave and master instead of worrying about which is connected to which connector (although the preferred hookup is to have the master at the end of the ribbon cable). So then I ohmed out my 2 sample 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables for pin 28. You're right ... mostly! Although they are 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables and NOT used at anytime for a cable select configuration, they appear to be setup to be usable for cable select (if you configure your drives that way). Pin 28 on the mobo connector (blue) shows continuity to pin 28 in the far end drive connector (black) but pin 28 in the middle connector (grey) is not connected to either of the other connectors. In fact, by the feel of the needle I was inserting into the grey connector, it feels like there isn't even a female pin in that hole. So at one time it might've been that pin 28 was connected across all the connectors for non-cable select setups and a special cable-select ribbon cable was needed for cable select setups, but at some point all ribbon cables became cable-select cables whether you used them that way or not. From what I see for the ATA specs at www.t13.org, CSEL (being open on pin 28) was *optional* in ATA-1 (http://www.t13.org/project/d0791r4c.pdf) and ATA-2 (http://www.t13.org/project/d0948r4c.pdf), plus they mention "Special cabling can be used by the system manufacturer to selectively ground CSEL". Again, you don't use "special" cabling for *standard* setups. Sure sounds like there used to be normal (non-cable select) cables and cable-select cables. I didn't find a link for ATA-3, and for ATA-4 and up they want me to buy the spec from ANSI (no thanks). So at what point the "special" cabling that would provide CSEL became standard is unknown to me. I do remember that at one time you had to be careful to NOT get stuck using a cable-select version of the ribbon cable if you were configuring the drives as master and slave, or, the other way around, you had to be sure you used a cable-select version of the ribbon cable if you wanted to use cable select on the hard drives. -- __________________________________________________ __________ *** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. *** __________________________________________________ __________ |
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"John" said in news:EVW%b.15758$UU.14950@lakeread01:
Disk Boot Failure, Insert System disk and press enter that is what I get when it doesnt have the cd rom in yet it is booting off the hard drive w/ the cd rom in some how it seems like the boot files didnt get transfered over any other ideas? Thanks! You haven't mentioned which operating system you are using. You still haven't mentioned if you are using master/slave or cable select. Maybe you have the boot drive on the middle (grey) connector on the ribbon cable and have the drive configured as cable select but have the drive on the end connector set to master or slave. Besides mentioning if you are setting up the drives as master/slave or cable select, tell us the brand and model of the drives so we can verify you are using the correct jumper settings. Would also help to know if you are using old 40-wire/40-pin ribbon cables or the newer 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables. Are the hard drives UDMA-66/100/133, or UDMA-33? What does the motherboard support (or whatever you are plugging the drives and ribbon cable into)? What motherboard? |
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What motherboard make and model? whatever motherboard you have, check in
bios it boots first to HDD0 or HDD1 if HDD0 don't exist. I assume the boot drive is master and at the end of the cable and other hard drive is slave and in the middle of the cable? or Try cable select and put the boot drive on the end of the cable and the other hard drive in the middle. hope that helps "John" wrote in message news:EVW%b.15758$UU.14950@lakeread01... Disk Boot Failure, Insert System disk and press enter that is what I get when it doesnt have the cd rom in yet it is booting off the hard drive w/ the cd rom in some how it seems like the boot files didnt get transfered over any other ideas? Thanks! "John" wrote in message news:FiD%b.10213$UU.7111@lakeread01... I have a weird boot problem. I have 2 hard drives. And I have verified the jumper settings and they are correct. If I have just one hard drive connected, it boots fine. If I have two hard drives conneted at the same time it doesnt boot. It gives a disk boot error. Now the strange part. If I have a bootable cd in the cd rom but it does not boot from it, it will boot from my hd with out any problems. Any idea on what could be causing this? Thanks! |
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*Vanguard* wrote:
"V W Wall" said in : This is not true. Cable select is determined by pin 28 *not* pin 34, I'm a little more awake than last time. You are correct. Pin 28 is for CSEL (cable select). Pin 34 is for PDIAG/CBLID. PDIAG was the original designation and CBLID was added for 80-wire detection. Pin 34 cannot be shorted to ground in the mobo otherwise every ribbon cable connected to it would look like an 80-wire ribbon cable. Pin 34 is shorted inside the blue connector (on the mobo end); see http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html. I don't have any 80-wire ribbon cables at the moment where I can see a tiny (3mm) cutout section of a wire. According to one user in these newsgroups, "The wire is cut near the motherboard end of the cable so that the drives will not "see" the ground on that pin." If you have a ribbon cable with the cutout, for which signal pin is the cutout, or is it in one of the shielding ground wires? It's definitely the wire which would connect to pin 34 on the MB. I assume that those cables without the "cut" do not connect the wire to pin 34 on the motherboard. Although it sounds great to spout specifications, what I've measured doesn't fully jive with what has often been touted in the newsgroups as the spec for 80-wire layout of signal wires (to pins) and for shielding wires (to reduce crosstalk). I had been told that the signal wires (going to the pins) were the odd numbered wires (which meant the outside wire on the striped side was for pin 1) and the even numbered wires were the shielding ground wires. When ohming out a couple of 80-wire ribbon cables, that's not what I found. For my spare 2 ribbon cables (both 80-wire/40-pin), the odd wires were the shielding grounds and the even ones were the signals (going to the pins). Then I noticed the above linked article to PC Guide says the added ground wires can be either the even or odd set of wires. I haven't ohmed out other ribbon cables to get a consensus. Great, now I don't know if the outermost striped end of the ribbon cable is for pin 1 or a shield ground. Or looking at it in reverse, pin 1 could be on wire #1 or #2. I have to test it to find out. The Seagate Barracuda Product Manual says: "This (ATA/100) cable uses even-numbered conductors connected to the ground pins to improve signal integrety." It also says: "The drive detects the 80-conductor by sensing a capacitor at the host side through the CBLID-signal." Don't see how it can do this if CBLID, (pin 34), is not even connected to the "host". Pin 34 did show continuity between the black and grey connectors (these go to the hard drives). So, for the drives, this line is still connected between them. This is still a requirement in 2-drive configurations as PCDIAG from the slave uses this to tell the master drive that it is ready. "PDIAG (passed diagnostics) is a signal used by drive 1 to tell drive 0 when (and if) it has passed its diagnostics following a power-up or a reset. Drive 0 uses this information to inform the system of a drive 1 failure" (according to http://www.uib.es/c-calculo/scimgs/f...Interface.html). However, neither of these had their pin 34 connected to pin 34 on the mobo connector (blue), so there is an open in the wire between the mobo and drive connectors. I could not see any cutout in the ribbon cable along the wire for pin 34, so it must be the ribbon cable is cut back on this wire so it doesn't engage the forked tooth for that pin, the cutout in the ribbon cable is just above the forked tooth so there is no wire to engage into the tooth, or the forked tooth is broken from the pin. So you might see the cutout or you might not. I have cables with and without the cutout. Also, for pin 34 to be grounded to indicate an 80-wire ribbon cable, the only way the motherboard could see that is if pin 34 actually went to a ground pin on the connector. The motherboard can only see what's on the connector pins. For the blue (mobo) connector, pin 34 showed continuity to pins 2, 22, 24, and 40 (there are more ground pins but that was enough; see http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_IDE.html for a pinout of the connector). So pin 34 (but only in the blue mobo connector) is shorted to ground. So, to summarize how pin 34 is used: - You don't know if the signal pins use the odd- or even-numbered wires. You'll have to check by ohming out the pin to see if it is connected to wire #1 or #2. For my 2 samples, pin 1 went to wire #2 (so signals were on the even-numbered wires). Does it really make any difference. As long as they are between the signal wires, they serve their purpose. - For the 80-wire/40-pin cable, pin 34 on the mobo connector (blue) is disconnected from the ribbon cable. Pin 34 on the drive connectors (grey and black) are connected. You may see a cutout in the ribbon cable, you might not. I've never seen a cutout in any of my 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables. - Pin 34 on the pin side (only to the mobo) of the blue connector is shorted to ground. Me: I don't use cable-select ribbon cables. V W Wall: There is no such thing--all cables made to the ATA spec can be used. "To use cable select, both devices on the channel are set to the "cable select" (CS) setting, usually by a special jumper. Then, a special cable is used." "On a cable select cable, one of the connectors (the "master connector") has pin #28 connected through to the cable, but the other (the "slave connector") has an open circuit on that pin (no connection)." This according to http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_CS.htm. You don't use "special" cables for standard installations. I had heard of cable select cables but never bothered to use them or even investigate into them because I always want to determine which drive is slave and master instead of worrying about which is connected to which connector (although the preferred hookup is to have the master at the end of the ribbon cable). So then I ohmed out my 2 sample 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables for pin 28. You're right ... mostly! Although they are 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables and NOT used at anytime for a cable select configuration, they appear to be setup to be usable for cable select (if you configure your drives that way). Pin 28 on the mobo connector (blue) shows continuity to pin 28 in the far end drive connector (black) but pin 28 in the middle connector (grey) is not connected to either of the other connectors. In fact, by the feel of the needle I was inserting into the grey connector, it feels like there isn't even a female pin in that hole. So at one time it might've been that pin 28 was connected across all the connectors for non-cable select setups and a special cable-select ribbon cable was needed for cable select setups, but at some point all ribbon cables became cable-select cables whether you used them that way or not. I thought that's what I said! ;-) I have seen cables that did not correspond to the ATA spec. One cable even had the MB connector in the middle. It was easier to ground pin pin 28 on only one drive connector. Leaving the socket out of the middle connector's pin 28 is one way of grounding that lead only on the end connector. From what I see for the ATA specs at www.t13.org, CSEL (being open on pin 28) was *optional* in ATA-1 (http://www.t13.org/project/d0791r4c.pdf) and ATA-2 (http://www.t13.org/project/d0948r4c.pdf), plus they mention "Special cabling can be used by the system manufacturer to selectively ground CSEL". Again, you don't use "special" cabling for *standard* setups. Sure sounds like there used to be normal (non-cable select) cables and cable-select cables. I didn't find a link for ATA-3, and for ATA-4 and up they want me to buy the spec from ANSI (no thanks). So at what point the "special" cabling that would provide CSEL became standard is unknown to me. I do remember that at one time you had to be careful to NOT get stuck using a cable-select version of the ribbon cable if you were configuring the drives as master and slave, or, the other way around, you had to be sure you used a cable-select version of the ribbon cable if you wanted to use cable select on the hard drives. I think the spec that defined the 80 wire cables also defined the CSEL connections. There is as much confusion about hard drives as there is about the software used with them! With SATA coming along, we'll probably see a new round of mis-information. ;-) Virg Wall -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law |
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"V W Wall" wrote in message
... I don't have any 80-wire ribbon cables at the moment where I can see a tiny (3mm) cutout section of a wire. snip It's definitely the wire which would connect to pin 34 on the MB. I assume that those cables without the "cut" do not connect the wire to pin 34 on the motherboard. No, the motherboard's pin 34 would have to be connected. Just because it support UDMA-66 and up, it still needs to support the older drives with the old ribbon cables. If the disconnect were on the mobo, even the old 40-wire/40-pin ribbon cables would get "detected" (i.e., fixed) to look like 80-wire/40-pin cables. That would mean an inappropriately high ATA mode would get selected that the old ribbon cable and old drive cannot support. That's why my guess is that if you cannot see the cutout then it can still exist but under the cap on the connector that presses the ribbon cable against the forked teeth for the pins, or the tooth is broken so the pin and forked tooth are not connected. I really don't want to destroy my only 2 spare 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables to find out but curiousity might someday overcome my thriftiness. The Seagate Barracuda Product Manual says: "This (ATA/100) cable uses even-numbered conductors connected to the ground pins to improve signal integrety." It also says: "The drive detects the 80-conductor by sensing a capacitor at the host side through the CBLID-signal." Don't see how it can do this if CBLID, (pin 34), is not even connected to the "host". Yeah, that's a good one. I have cables with and without the cutout. And the cutout is in the wire for pin 34, right? - You don't know if the signal pins use the odd- or even-numbered wires. You'll have to check by ohming out the pin to see if it is connected to wire #1 or #2. For my 2 samples, pin 1 went to wire #2 (so signals were on the even-numbered wires). Does it really make any difference. As long as they are between the signal wires, they serve their purpose. Yes, if you're trying to troubleshoot a dysfunctional machine. Could be the ribbon cable got pinched around a sharp chassis corner and frayed or cut into the outside wire. If it's a ground, no big deal, especially since there is no signal wire on the other side in which it will reduce crosstalk. You don't need to toss a perfectly good cable. If it's a signal line (pin 1 for Reset) you do need to be concerned. Is the cable compromised, can you simply apply a coating to prevent furture shorting if it's a signal or not bother if it's a ground, and so on. Yeah, the best answer is to replace the ribbon cable but when you're in the north woods of Minnesota, some tiny town, or elsewhere in the field, your supplies are limited and you might not have a handy fresh unused replacement. No everything dealing with computers requires replacement with brand new parts or happens in a big city with lots of retailers available for immediate parts replacement. As seen, whether the shield ground wires are the even- or odd-numbered wires makes a difference in determining what a cutout was for. Count using the wrong offset and you think the cutout was for a shield ground instead of a signal. You're right ... mostly! Although they are 80-wire/40-pin ribbon cables and NOT used at anytime for a cable select configuration, they appear to be setup to be usable for cable select (if you configure your drives that way). Pin 28 on the mobo connector (blue) shows continuity to pin 28 in the far end drive connector (black) but pin 28 in the middle connector (grey) is not connected to either of the other connectors. I thought that's what I said! ;-) No, you said that ALL of the ATA-compliant ribbon cables supported CSEL. I disagree. ATA-1 and -2 specs indicate that at one time pin 28 was not used (i.e., connected to all connectors but unused) in "normal" or standard setups using master/slave configurations and a *special* cable-select version of the ribbon cable allowed you to use CSEL. If the middle connector were NOT unconnected (open), you couldn't use that ribbon cable for CSEL on the drives. I'm not paying ANSI to get copies of ATA-3 on up to see if the spec changed to make all ribbon cables CSEL capable, or to see if it is still listed as an optional configuration but maybe the cable and drive makers decided on making them all CSEL capable to eliminate confusion and bad hardware setups since it didn't affect master/slave setups. As I said, my recollection was that at one time, maybe 5 or more years ago, you had to be careful not to use the wrong ribbon cable type. If you wanted a CSEL setup, you could not use a standard ribbon cable (meant for master/slave configurations) that had pin 28 connected on the middle connector. As a matter of fact, if you go to the parts store and grabbed the connectors and ribbon cable and use a vise to squeeze the connectors onto the ribbon cable, the resulting cable could NOT be used for CSEL configurations (because pin 28 for the middle connector was then connected to the other pin 28's on the other connectors). This homemade cable works fine for master/slave but not for cable-select. Knowing that pin 34 is supposed to disconnected at the mobo end (via cutout) and if pin 28 is now supposed to not be connected to the middle connector (again another cutout) are important if you want to make your own custom length cables. Now with CSEL not being connected on the middle connector, CBLID getting disconnected from the drive connectors and shorted to ground inside the blue mobo connector, color coding, and knowing which 80-wire connector to use so you match its odd- or even-numbered positioning for the shielding ground wires, I haven't bothered making homemade ribbon cables for quite awhile. The days of just squeezing the connectors onto a ribbon cable are gone. I think the spec that defined the 80 wire cables also defined the CSEL connections. The CSEL signal was defined way back in the ATA-1 spec (that required "special" cabling to work). From http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/di...ltraata66.html and http://www.computerhope.com/help/ide.htm#02, 40-wire/40-pin cables were specified up to ATA-4 (for xfer modes up to UDMA mode 2 for 33Mbps). It was ATA-5 (for UDMA mode 4 for 66Mbps; UDMA mode 3 was 44Mbps but often called UDMA-50) which introduced 80-wire/40-pin cables. There is as much confusion about hard drives as there is about the software used with them! With SATA coming along, we'll probably see a new round of mis-information. ;-) Yeah, we'll have to get used to calling the old ports as PATA (parallel ATA) ports to differentiate them from SATA (serial ATA) ports. Calling them IDE ports was wrong but fell into common usage. [E]IDE = enhanced integrated drive electronics, and this controller is now on the drive, but ATA (Advanced Technology Attachment) defines the interface spec. In fact, EIDE/ATAPI (EIDE/ATA Packet Interface to include CD-type devices) is the full spec to describe the interface but usage degenerated to just IDE. So PATA and SATA seem to be the new buzzwords to use to differentiate the port types. I haven't had the time to read up on SATA (http://www.serialata.org/). |
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Disk Boot Failure, Insert System disk and press enter
that is what I get when it doesnt have the cd rom in yet it is booting off the hard drive w/ the cd rom in some how it seems like the boot files didnt get transfered over any other ideas? Thanks! "John" wrote in message news:FiD%b.10213$UU.7111@lakeread01... I have a weird boot problem. I have 2 hard drives. And I have verified the jumper settings and they are correct. If I have just one hard drive connected, it boots fine. If I have two hard drives conneted at the same time it doesnt boot. It gives a disk boot error. Now the strange part. If I have a bootable cd in the cd rom but it does not boot from it, it will boot from my hd with out any problems. Any idea on what could be causing this? Thanks! |
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