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#1
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Time for a new HD
It's time for me to perform a full clone of my 2TB main drive.
I'm thinking of HGST just wondering if WD is pretty much as good perhaps the "black" series That said, since I mostly work with large folders full of photos, if I should go for 128mg cache? |
#2
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Time for a new HD
philo wrote:
It's time for me to perform a full clone of my 2TB main drive. I'm thinking of HGST just wondering if WD is pretty much as good perhaps the "black" series That said, since I mostly work with large folders full of photos, if I should go for 128mg cache? First there was IBM. After the DeathStar fiasco, IBM sold their disk manufacturing to Hitachi (as HGST). Recently, Western Digital bought HGST, so as far as I know, that's now a division of WD. For any particular drive, you still need to have a quick look at the Newegg reviews. Just to see if quality for any one drive is an issue. I've bought two Seagates (3TB) recently (not at the same time), and initial indications are they're better than the 500GB drive generation which drove me away from Seagate. On the 500GB drives, even when they were new, they were flaky (inconsistent write rate over the surface of the drive, and no, not a function of diameter - I was getting 40MB/sec down near the end sometimes). The new drives just aren't flaky like that. But that still doesn't tell me whether the drive will last or not. Evidence is, drives "wear" now, and the flying height isn't all that high. So while I did "buy Seagate recently", I don't buy them as boot drives. They're backup drives, and with not a lot of service hours on them. Only my venerable ST3500418AS (28,419 power on hours) is worthy of being a boot drive. Which is a standout amongst the rest of my 500GB Seagate crap generation. There isn't a mark on that thing, and the transfer rate curve looks like the drive is new. I just don't understand whats up with that drive. Most of my purchases over the last three years have been WD drives. No signs of trouble so far. A bit noisy, and a tendency to "thrash" or "buzz". Not as quiet as a Seagate drive, in terms of acoustic noise. Even when the access pattern should make a thrashing noise, I can't hear that on the Seagate drive. On the WD, there are "Black" drives and "RE" drives. For people like me, with legacy OSes, the "RE" drives are sometimes better, because they're 512n drives. That means the sectors are still 512 byte native. No 4KB sectors with 512 byte emulation (512e). The Black at one time (three years ago) was 512n. It's switched to 512e. The RE as of the end of last year was 512n, but it may eventually switch to 512e as well. I could use the "RE" drive on WinXP, without worrying about partition alignment for best performance. People normally buy "RE" drives for TLER (time limited error recovery). Normal drives can retry a sector for up to 15 seconds. TLER drives only try for a shorter period of time, a behavior suited to usage in RAID arrays. I couldn't give a rats ass about that, and my reason for buying a couple RE drives, is they were the last of the 512n drives I could find. And it can be pretty hard to get that info. The drive type (512n, 512e, 4Kn) is not on the spec sheet. You have to look elsewhere. Even their own marketing documents try to be as deceptive as possible. If you look on the page 3, there are RE drives in 512n, 512e, and 4Kn. If you look at the Black drives, they're "Advanced Format yes or no". They couldn't even use the same terminology in the same document. http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/librar...178-771210.pdf Using Linux, I can list some examples from my WDC collection. The first is a WD RE, and still 512n. The other two are WD Black. The more modern 500GB is 512e. The older FAEX (no longer for sale) is 512n. So the 512e is "Advanced Format Yes" while 512n is "Advanced Format No" in that PDF. ata2.00: ATA-8: WDC WD2000FYYZ-01UL1B2, 01.01K03, max UDMA/133 ata4.00: ATA-9: WDC WD5003AZEX-00MK2A0, 01.01A01, max UDMA/133 ata6.00: ATA-8: WDC WD3001FAEX-00MJRA0, 01.01L01, max UDMA/133 Disk /dev/sda: 1.8 TiB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk /dev/sdb: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes Disk /dev/sdc: 2.7 TiB, 3000592982016 bytes, 5860533168 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Whether this makes a difference, would depend on whether the drive will be spending any time connected to WinXP. I've tried to select drives so I can use them anywhere, with no concern about alignment. But I can't always buy the item I want. I don't have *any* 4Kn. At least I hope not. They could be used on recent OSes, but not on older stuff. I presume in Linux, the 4Kn would return something like... Sector size (logical/physical): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes In other words, you cannot write 512 bytes to those. There is a 4K minimum, at the controller level. (Read modify write makes it possible to write smaller portions of a sector with programs like "dd".) I've not purchased any HGST, so cannot comment on their quirks. HGST probably don't have the jumper block on the end (a Seagate has four pins, two pins for Force150 for example). These are some rules of thumb, of no particular merit. HGST - no jumpers, use Feature Tool Seagate - 4 pin, Force150 (old Via chipset), Spread Spectrum (old Macintosh) WDC - 8 pin block, no idea what functions are on it - haven't needed to look it up HTH, Paul |
#3
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Time for a new HD
On 03/15/2016 09:58 AM, Paul wrote:
philo wrote: X) I've not purchased any HGST, so cannot comment on their quirks. HGST probably don't have the jumper block on the end (a Seagate has four pins, two pins for Force150 for example). These are some rules of thumb, of no particular merit. HGST - no jumpers, use Feature Tool Seagate - 4 pin, Force150 (old Via chipset), Spread Spectrum (old Macintosh) WDC - 8 pin block, no idea what functions are on it - haven't needed to look it up HTH, Paul Thank you very much. This drive will be for my Linux machine. I am currently using a Seagate hybrid, have had no problems with it and in general have not experienced problems with any of my former drives...but think I'm overdue for a complete clone |
#4
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Time for a new HD
On 03/15/2016 12:36 PM, Yrrah wrote:
philo : It's time for me to perform a full clone of my 2TB main drive. I'm thinking of HGST just wondering if WD is pretty much as good perhaps the "black" series "Cloud backup provider Backblaze has published more of its hard drive reliability data, giving a look at the company's experiences with its 56,224 hard disks in 2015" http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/02/hgst-hard-disks-still-super-reliable-seagates-have-greatly-improved/ and https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-...ility-q4-2015/ Yrrah Thanks. Even though I have my data backed up in several places, I think I should still try to get the most reliable drive I and find...and that sure does look like HGST |
#5
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Time for a new HD
On 15/03/16 18:31, Yrrah wrote:
My experience with Samsung hard drives was very positive, at least until recently. But now, with its HD business taken over by Seagate (which in my experience produces bad HDs)? Just be thankful the only hardware supply that Microsoft got involved in was just mice, keyboards, tablets and mobile phones ... IBM was a hard drive manufacturer. Imagine instead if MS had bought into hard drives? Imagine, equally if Apple had done? Back then, Woz certainly was one for hacking about with drive physics. WD hard disks are reliable in my experience. I own two, of which one is an ancient 320 GB IDE drive which I now use for streaming media files. WD. My last stand. -- Adrian C |
#6
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Time for a new HD
On 03/16/2016 09:24 AM, Yrrah wrote:
philo : It's time for me to perform a full clone of my 2TB main drive. Whatever you choose, remember: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3035017/storage/that-old-freezer-trick-to-save-a-hard-drive-doesnt-work-anymore.html ;-) ;-) ;-) Yrrah I've tried the freezer trick many times and never did get it to work. I once had a drive with a stuck armature and was able to open it up and get it working long enough to recover the data. On another occasion I got a non-functioning MFM drive to work simply by putting the entire computer on it's side. If the drive is semi-functional due to read/write errors I usually manage to save most of the data. I may have to stop and let the drive cool down, then try again. Should the drive be so bad that the BIOS does not detect it, I tell the folks to send it to a lab. One guy paid $600 and they did save his data. I told him that was a damn good price and now he backs his stuff up! |
#7
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Time for a new HD
On 03/16/2016 06:25 AM, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 15/03/16 18:31, Yrrah wrote: My experience with Samsung hard drives was very positive, at least until recently. But now, with its HD business taken over by Seagate (which in my experience produces bad HDs)? Just be thankful the only hardware supply that Microsoft got involved in was just mice, keyboards, tablets and mobile phones ... IBM was a hard drive manufacturer. Imagine instead if MS had bought into hard drives? Imagine, equally if Apple had done? Back then, Woz certainly was one for hacking about with drive physics. WD hard disks are reliable in my experience. I own two, of which one is an ancient 320 GB IDE drive which I now use for streaming media files. WD. My last stand. After doing as much reading-up as possible, I decided to order a WD Black series today |
#8
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Time for a new HD
Once upon a time on usenet Yrrah wrote:
philo : It's time for me to perform a full clone of my 2TB main drive. Whatever you choose, remember: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3035017/storage/that-old-freezer-trick-to-save-a-hard-drive-doesnt-work-anymore.html ;-) ;-) ;-) Yrrah That explains it! The 'freezer trick' has worked twice for me in the past as a last-ditch attempt to recover data - in fact it had never failed until last year. The last time it worked was three years ago on a drive a couple of years old. However I was given a fairly new drive towards the end of last year by a friend. It had simply stopped being seen by the OS (it was being used solely for data). After a few days of trying various things I decided that it was time for the freezer trick. It didn't work, the HDD never started and ultimately the drive was trashed. I'll not bother trying it again then unless it's a very old HDD. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
#9
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Time for a new HD
On 04/08/2016 07:18 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
The 'freezer trick' has worked twice for me in the past as a last-ditch attempt to recover data - in fact it had never failed until last year. The last time it worked was three years ago on a drive a couple of years old. However I was given a fairly new drive towards the end of last year by a friend. It had simply stopped being seen by the OS (it was being used solely for data). After a few days of trying various things I decided that it was time for the freezer trick. It didn't work, the HDD never started and ultimately the drive was trashed. I'll not bother trying it again then unless it's a very old HDD. I've "sort of" had the freezer trick work. Occasionally I'll get a drive with read/write errors that semi-functions until it gets too hot. If I keep the drive cool by first putting it in a static proof bag, then keeping is surrounded by a few bags of ice...I can extend the recovery time a bit. |
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